Grayman Knives.....


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RustyShackelford
July 24, 2014, 09:55 PM
I've seen the site for custom/limited ed knife shop; Grayman Knives.
I thought "Gray Man" was a nick name or code for a "quiet professionals".
:uhoh:

It turns out it's the knife designers last name.
The blade & handles look well made. I like the serraded styles but a few of the Grayman series seem better suited to hunting/outdoors use that defense or tactical use(EDC). :uhoh:

The prices seem in line with custom blades of the quality & size the shop makes.
I'm just interested in the forum member input by any owners or users of these edged weapons/knives.

www.Graymanknives.com

Rusty

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hso
July 24, 2014, 09:58 PM
Buy with confidence.

RustyShackelford
July 24, 2014, 10:22 PM
I like the Ground Pounder single bevel blade(with teeth). Id want the black G10 scales but the site says the company nylon sheath is a desert tan color only. :(
The green/OD handle looks good too but I would prefer the "duty/low profile" black style.
I liked the looks of the double bevel style blade but Grayman himself says the single type is better for sharpening & general field chores. ;)

$215.00 USD(tan sheath included) isn't bad. The blade has a 90 day return warranty & the shop says they'll do sharpening/replaced parts as needed for the life of the owner. Grayman states the offer can be transferred too. From new to old knife owner. That's a solid offer. :D

Rusty

hso
July 24, 2014, 10:23 PM
You could probably custom order anything you wanted.

TimboKhan
July 24, 2014, 10:42 PM
I can't truthfully offer an opinion with confidence having never owned one, but I have handled one and they seem worth every penny if you need a truly hard use knife.

Sam Cade
July 24, 2014, 11:28 PM
http://www.graymanknives.com/Resources/img1871.jpeg

That is a short, steep grind.

Since the knife is ground asymetrically and is 1/4" thick stock that grind would have to be nearly to the spine in order for it to cut worth a hoot. As it is, that knife might not be a very impressive chopper in most hands vis–à–vis something like a BK9 or even a CS Trailmaster since the grind is going to limit the depth of the cuts.

More Observations:

Painted instead of finished blade.
Screws and spacers instead of pinned on scales.
Minimal finish work or contouring on the scales.
Grind is short and thick, so fast to grind.

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 12:16 AM
I'm curious to know if the blade/metal parts can hold up to rough-field use or if the blade needs some CLP or Ballistol. They look sharp & rugged.

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 12:36 AM
I'm curious to know if the blade/metal parts can hold up to rough-field use or if the blade needs some CLP or Ballistol. They look sharp & rugged.

1095 is a simple carbon steel so once you scratch the paint off it will rust vigorously if not kept oiled and dry.

Gordon
July 25, 2014, 12:37 AM
Tell it like it is Sam! Yeah!

Valkman
July 25, 2014, 02:02 AM
They are known to be good or great knives, but as Sam points out he isn't into finish grinding. His knives are thick and all but unbreakable and that's how they're marketed. I too would like to see more contouring of the handles.

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 02:02 AM
I checked online, the Cold Steel Trailmaster is about the same size & weight as a Ground Pounder(with teeth/single bevel). It's stainless steel & costs approx $45.00 more. The - is that it's produced in Taiwan. :uhoh:
The "paint" of the Grayman blade may be a protective coat but as stated, that could wear off & cause rust-corrosion later. :mad:

RS

Pete D.
July 25, 2014, 06:39 AM
Why single bevel? What is the advantage to the user, if any?
Pete

hso
July 25, 2014, 07:03 AM
Might want to ask possum about his opinion of the Grayman knives.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=523312&highlight=grayman

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 08:03 AM
Grayman himself says he prefers the single type blade because it's faster/easier to sharpen correctly & it works better at some chop/cut motions.
I like the look of the double bevel with teeth but I can see Grayman's points.

Rusty

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 10:09 AM
I checked online, the Cold Steel Trailmaster is about the same size & weight as a Ground Pounder(with teeth/single bevel). It's stainless steel & costs approx $45.00 more.


Current production Trailmasters are O-1 carbon steel. Decidedly Non-Stainless. Previous generation Trailmasters were SK-5 carbon steel.
Retail is about $130.
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Master-Kraton-Handle/dp/B001PYUL0O


The laminated "San-Mai" that CS has on some Trailmasters jacks up the price about $100.




The - is that it's produced in Taiwan. :uhoh:

The Taiwanese cutlery industry is world class and Taiwan itself is a friendly democracy.
Taiwan=Good Thing.

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 10:13 AM
Why single bevel? What is the advantage to the user, if any?
Pete

OHOjv2-NqX0

....and for the same reasons excel at whittling and scraping, even on large thick knives.

Madcap_Magician
July 25, 2014, 10:15 AM
I am not a huge fan of the designs. They appear to be knives along the sharpened-crowbar pattern. The grinds are simple and probably adequate, but I like my knives designed for knife-related tasks instead of prying. The scales do not look exceptionally ergonomic, and while fit and finish appears to be well done for what it is, what it is isn't a very high quality finish.

I am sure they are tough knives, but for the price I can get a more functional knife.

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 10:55 AM
This triggered my recently re-calibrated Bull-Crap Detector:

In a thrust, it creates a bilaterally asymmetrical wound, resulting in in quicker hypovolemic shock from rapid blood loss.


Ummmm...
:uhoh:
Ok.


I'd like to see some research that delineates physiological reasons why this would be the case.

hso
July 25, 2014, 11:30 AM
Yep, they're solidly in the sharpened pry bar world.

Potatohead
July 25, 2014, 04:03 PM
Seems a little to pricy.

JShirley
July 25, 2014, 04:38 PM
The price isn't the problem, it's the value for price.

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 05:08 PM
The price isn't the problem, it's the value for price.

Indeed.

If a custom knife uses most of the manufacturing shortcuts usually found in inexpensive production knives and ships with an edge that looks like this:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=200940&stc=1&d=1406322218

...then why would anyone pay a premium price for it?

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 05:30 PM
Doesn't Grayman state the knife edge is "toothy" to saw/cut better?
I agree the pic does not look that great but that's on the website too.

I don't own any Grayman products & have not seen any in person.
Id also agree that for $195-250.00 you should get a top quality knife with a full warranty.

Rusty
PS; Taiwan isn't the USA. :D

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 06:19 PM
Doesn't Grayman state the knife edge is "toothy" to saw/cut better?


Well, there is a "toothy edge" and then there is doing the bare minimum to save time and effort. A ragged, chewed up edge like in the picture (which is on a folder than starts at $275:uhoh:) is about the worst type of edge you could put on a knife if your intent was to get it sharp and keep it that way.

Perfect for tomatoes though.

Valkman
July 25, 2014, 07:31 PM
Wow that's a horrible edge. Looks like it was done on a 60 grit belt and then he said "good enough" which it obviously is not.

I'm suprised by some of this, I've never really looked at his knives before but always heard good things about them.

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 07:39 PM
I did some research on "Mike Grayman".
A few forum posts & remarks state Grayman's real/legal name is Mike Bottoms. :rolleyes:
Bottoms also used the name Mike Ajax. :uhoh:
He claims to be a "spec ops veteran" & served in the RSAS/Selious Scouts in Africa(what was Rhodesia).
These claims were disputed by real combat veterans & armed forces members who either took classes with Ajax/Grayman or heard of his background.

I don't think Id spend any $$$ on a fake poser or exposed liar. :mad:

Digvideo
July 25, 2014, 08:56 PM
Overpriced, check out www.bladehq.com
Price, selection, fast shipping!

ugaarguy
July 25, 2014, 09:08 PM
Overpriced, check out www.bladehq.com
Price, selection, fast shipping!
Blade HQ is one of many very good knife retailers. Which specific brands / models do you recommend that Rusty look at as alternatives to the Grayman choppers?

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 09:32 PM
I saw a left hand Commander blade(with serraded edge) on Ernest Emerson's knife website. It's a folder with the new Wave format & it costs about the same as the Grayman(aka; Michael E Bottoms) Ground Pounders.

Emerson is a trusted name in the edged weapon/blade industry. He's provided quality knives to special ops, NASA, law enforcement, etc.
He's not a poser & also teaches knife tactics. ;)

As for a field knife or something fixed blade I guess I still keep hunting. :D

Valkman
July 25, 2014, 09:40 PM
We all know of Ernie Emerson, his knives are great as is his reputation. I met him when I went to Blade and bought 2 folders both of which had the wave. I like that feature a lot!

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 09:55 PM
Emerson is a trusted name in the edged weapon/blade industry.


Unfortunately, Emerson QA often leaves something to be desired.

Find a table full of Emersons at a show and inspect as many of them as you can with a critical eye. You might be surprised.

RustyShackelford
July 25, 2014, 09:59 PM
I also saw the website of a custom shop called Winkler Knives.
He does a lot of field knives, edged weapons, folders, etc.

Winkler blades were reportedly used by a few SEALs & specwar types involved in Trident Spear. :D

The quality seems decent but those blades are pricey & the wait times long.

Sam Cade
July 25, 2014, 10:02 PM
Winkler blades were reportedly used by a few SEALs & specwar types involved in Trident Spear. :D


Buy the knife, not the story.

hso
July 25, 2014, 10:10 PM
his knives are great as is his reputation

Ummm, no. As Sam said, the quality issues would deny that, BUT those issues have been with the semiproduction knives and not with the true customs.

ugaarguy
July 25, 2014, 10:52 PM
Rusty, Benchmade made better Emersons than Mr. Emerson's production models. Now under the Kershaw-Emerson collaboration Kershaw's facility in China is making better fit and finished knives with a lower grade blade steel based on what I saw at Blade. The really exciting models (if you want an Emerson) are the Zero Tolerance - Emerson ZT0620 and ZT0620CF collaborations. You get the Emerson design with ZT's superb quality and better blade steels than the Emerson production knives, all for less than an Emerson production knife if you shop carefully.

Whether you go with the Kershaw - Emerson or the ZT - Emerson you get the Wave feature on every model, and they're all frame locks that I trust far more than the liner locks on production Emersons. And, yes, I used to own a production Emerson CQC-7. It was a pretty good knife, but I was working for a dealer and got it at wholesale pricing. I wouldn't have paid street price for it though.

RustyShackelford
July 26, 2014, 03:32 AM
Do any forum members use any Winkler series custom knives?
They are pricey but look solid.

The Cutco Ka-Bar field knife might be a worthy trade-off. :D

ugaarguy
July 26, 2014, 04:07 AM
Do any forum members use any Winkler series custom knives?
I have not, but he's an ABS Master Smith. The testing to become a Master Smith is extreme: http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=178. Bear in mind that most of what you see currently available are his stock removal knives, marked Winkler II; rather than his forged blades which are marked D. Winkler. The Winkler II knives are priced around $400 because they're stock removal. If you want a forged knife from an ABS Master Smith be ready to pay at least twice that.

Regardless of if the knives are forged or stock removal you can buy a knife from any ABS Journeyman or Master Smith and know that you're getting a superb knife. The testing a guild master review process ensures such.

RustyShackelford
July 26, 2014, 05:09 AM
I saw a custom shop called Begg Knives too but the long wait times & prices make that pick nearly impossible. :rolleyes:
The firm was featured on a short lived "unscripted" TV series too so that notoriety increased the company's profile. :mad:

www.BeggKnives.com

hso
July 26, 2014, 07:34 AM
Todd Begg is a highly sought after maker.

While I'd agree in principle that any knife from an ABS Journeyman or Master Bladesmith should be a superb knife it isn't always the case that an individual smith actually does turn out such quality. There are also many knifemakers outside of such organizations, smith and stock reduction, that craft superior knives consistently (look at Kim Breed, Ray Ennis, Larry Harley, ... ). Each maker and each knife itself should be evaluated on its own merits and don't forget that there are even companies like Bark River and Chris Reeve and LT Wright that use the same care in producing their knives that you see out of the "bread and butter" knives from a skilled craftsman. High quality knives are a complicated world these days with the lines between handmade and production are blurred by makers and companies thanks to the available equipment and techniques that allow superior blades to be produced.

Madcap_Magician
July 26, 2014, 10:18 AM
Todd Begg's big niche is integral fixed blades. His are gorgeous, but lots of $$$.

For big choppers in the same size and function range as the Grayman knives, I would recommend Bark River Knife and Tool. Better grinds, better fit and finish, better materials.

www.knivesshipfree.com carries most of the BRKT line.

Sam Cade
July 26, 2014, 11:03 AM
. Better grinds, better fit and finish, better materials.

At the price point that the Grayman sells for there are so many superior custom and production choices that it boggles the mind. :eek:

Big Chris, Helmforge...so many choices!

Shoot, a Shirley-Owens Camp Defender is only around $200!

JShirley
July 28, 2014, 12:27 AM
While I put years of thought into the Camp Defender, and Sam O executed it wonderfully, Bark River makes great knives, and you can get them much quicker than one from Sam O (Sam1911).

I also think the Ontario RTAC II (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DZV3BG/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B001DZV3BG&linkCode=as2&tag=wanderin00-20&linkId=USUINLAFEH4O346B) is a heck of a bargain in a big knife, at less than $100 shipped.

TimboKhan
August 10, 2014, 07:44 PM
Camp Defenders don't hold up so hot to unintentional dishwashings by wives who turn ghostly white when they learn how costly the mistake they made was...

They still chop pretty good though.

ApacheCoTodd
August 10, 2014, 09:51 PM
http://www.graymanknives.com/Resources/img1871.jpeg


Looks like a "remove everything that doesn't look like a knife... a comic book hero's knife" method of knife "making".

That "asymmetrical wound" blather is straight "tool" speak.

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