AR SBR Build What Caliber


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NativePride
August 5, 2014, 01:51 AM
Ok What cal do you recommend for a AR Build with following conditions.

Condition 1 It Will be SBR Prefer around 10" Barrel And Suppressed

Condition 2 Will Be Suppressed when Legal to do so (Target Shooting and Legal hunting where suppressors are allowed.

Condition 3 Want to be able to use My New AR Milspec Receiver

Hunting mainly would be Hogs and where legal possibly deer.

I was Considering .300 Blackout or 6.8 spc as I think it would be hard to suppress a .223/5.56 SBR effectively.

I prefer enough knock down to get the job done.....

OK Hope I gave enough info now let me know your recommendations even if different caliber and why :)

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Gtscotty
August 5, 2014, 02:22 AM
In a 10"-ish barrel length, I would go with 300 BLK... this one to be exact:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/15086/

For hunting, I'm more a fan of the 6.8, but in a barrel as short as 10", I'd probably opt for the 300 BLK. Also, personally I have a bunch of hunting rifles, so an SBR would primarily be for blasting and shooting subs suppressed. If you are leaning heavily towards this being your main hunting rifle, you should probably use supersonic rounds, and for that purpose the 6.8 might be a better choice.

Sam1911
August 5, 2014, 08:22 AM
If you wrote out a design spec sheet for a .300 Blackout, it would read just like that.

At this point, they're so mainstream and so tailored for that application that it's almost an open-and-shut question.

Ranger Roberts
August 5, 2014, 09:45 AM
3rd vote for 300 blackout. It fits all of the criteria you listed. Plus, even if you don't reload, you can buy 300 blk off the shelf at most sporting good stores now a days.

Bullnettles
August 5, 2014, 11:06 AM
4th for 300BLK. I have a 10.5" and suppressed it's one of the quietest guns I have. It's also accurate enough to hit at 80 yard and go through both sides the aluminum support of an old satellite dish mount clean at subsonic velocities. Perfect for hogs.

HRnightmare
August 5, 2014, 11:39 AM
For hunting I would say 300BLK. I however have a 10.5" 5.56 SBR with a Phantom 5.56 SS on it and it is unbelievably quiet. Shoots dirty as hell but it is much quieter than I expected.

I think the effectiveness of a 5.56 / .223 for hunting could be debated for hours, 300BLK would probably be more effective.

Aaron Baker
August 5, 2014, 06:05 PM
Since the obvious answer of .300 AAC has been suggested already, I'm going to go with the non-obvious answer: .458 SOCOM.

500 grain bullets are a hard-hitting subsonic load, and you can use a sufficiently beefy .45 suppressor on that platform as long as you stay subsonic.

Aaron

NativePride
August 5, 2014, 06:54 PM
At this point I think I am going .300 Blackout the 450 SOCOM look really nice as well but .300 can be bought locally pretty easy I may just have to dust the reloader off either way...

Gtscotty
August 5, 2014, 11:57 PM
http://www.radicalfirearms.com/category-s/1854.htm

Just thought I'd toss this up as a potential upper source. A melonite barrel and free float upper for $279... I don't see many reviews on Radical Firearms online, but the components look good.

NativePride
August 6, 2014, 12:58 AM
Gtscotty thanks for the link pricing looks pretty darn good....

Charger442
August 7, 2014, 11:47 AM
for hard hitting with good, cheap ammo and is quiet suppressed, i would SBR an AR in 45acp. But thats just me.

Arizona_Mike
August 7, 2014, 12:57 PM
300 BLK 10.5" BBL.

I did a lot of research and calculations before selecting this exact combo.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21431738/guns/300%20BLK/IMG_20140722_080626%20800x264.jpg

Mike

PS. Scope mount on backwards, yada yada yada . . .

wally
August 7, 2014, 01:35 PM
7.62x39 unless you like to reload or shoot $1.30+ per shot ammo.

You might have some issues with 7.63x39 AR magazines, but maybe discarding a few bad mags so you can use $0.24 per shot ammo vs. using $1.30+ per shot ammo is no serious burden.

OTOH if you enjoy reloading the .300 Blk is the way to go.

Sam1911
August 7, 2014, 01:37 PM
(And if you want to shoot subsonic...)

Elkins45
August 8, 2014, 12:25 AM
(And if you want to shoot subsonic...)
And if you would like to shoot cast bullets.

TRX
August 17, 2014, 10:25 PM
> .300 Blackout

I'll add my vote there.


> .458 SOCOM

A nice round, but ammo and brass availability is intermittent. I spent three months trying to find SOCOM brass before I gave up and went to .50 Beowulf instead. At the time, I could get Beowulf but not SOCOM.

griff383
August 17, 2014, 11:03 PM
I have a few 300blk SBRs and while I really enjoy them I might suggest the 6.8. I reload and make my own 300blk brass so that was an easy choice for me, but I have been looking at doing a 12.5" 6.8 SBR recently. From what I gather the 6.8 is a better all around hunting cartridge and the 12.5" barrel still maintains some great numbers but the 300 really shines with the components used and options of bullets/weights.

jmorris
August 18, 2014, 12:58 AM
I was Considering .300 Blackout or 6.8 spc as I think it would be hard to suppress a .223/5.56 SBR effectively.

I prefer enough knock down to get the job done.....

Why do you think it would be more difficult to suppress a rifle with a smaller diameter hole in the end of the suppressor?

Are you looking at loading subsonic rounds?

A 220 grain .30 cal bullet subsonic out of a 300blk has less energy than a 230 grain .452 bullet at the same speed. Not to mention a 45 acp bullet is designed for the speed it is running SS and .30 cal bullets work best over 2000 fps.

Once you set a speed limit, like the speed of sound, the only way you can gain energy is with mass. That leaves you with rounds like the 458 socom and 50 beo, they don't make a lot of 400-500+ grain bullets in small calibers.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 19, 2014, 11:28 AM
A 220 grain .30 cal bullet subsonic out of a 300blk has less energy than a 230 grain .452 bullet at the same speed.

Muzzle energy maybe; but depending on the ballistic coefficient of that .452 bullet, the .30 cal subsonic will likely catch up to it and pass it (in terms of energy) at some point prior to 300yds.

jmorris
August 19, 2014, 03:24 PM
Muzzle energy maybe; but depending on the ballistic coefficient of that .452 bullet, the .30 cal subsonic will likely catch up to it and pass it (in terms of energy) at some point prior to 300yds.

This is true, a Hornady 220 (.308) @ 1000 fps muzzle winds up having 351 ftlbs at 300 yds. That is 29 ftlbs (about 1/5 the power of a .22 LR) more than a Hornady 230 (.452) does.

The chances of a Hornady 220 expanding to a diameter larger than .452 at the speed it's running by the time it gets to 300 yds (848.2 fps) are about zero, unless it's hitting a steel plate.

Subsonic ammo is not the best choice for that range anyway. With a 50 yd zero, your looking at more than 11.5 feet of drop at 300, out of the above .308 load.

jmorris
August 19, 2014, 03:57 PM
To put things into prospective. A 405g sp moving at 1000 fps will have 146 ftlb more energy at 300 yds that the above 308 load would have at the muzzle and only drop 1.7" more than the 308 @ 300yds.

NativePride
August 20, 2014, 05:31 AM
Any recommendations for a complete 300 blackout upper in Flat Dark Earth? Having a hard time finding one.....

Bartholomew Roberts
August 20, 2014, 09:39 AM
Don't know anyone who makes one in FDE; but you can have it cerakoted the same color as Magpul's FDE.

JeeperCreeper
August 23, 2014, 06:51 AM
.22 LR..... jkjk
If you're going suppressed, I think you alread know the answer: 300 BLK

.... But if i were me, I'd do an AK PAP Pistol in 7.62x39 with a homebrew suppressor job on the cheap. But then of course my bright ideas always fail after I get them off paper

wcoats
August 27, 2014, 02:35 AM
Another vote for the 300 blk from me. I finished off getting a 10.5" 300 blk SBR and a suppressor a few months ago and it's exceeded my expectations. It's more accurate than I expected and you can do more with it using supersonic loads than I expected. Mine started out with just a red-dot, but now I have a 1-4X scope one it.
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/wcoats1/20140827_012024_zps13634024.jpg (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/wcoats1/media/20140827_012024_zps13634024.jpg.html)

Also you can get ammo for about $0.6 a round, or a little less, without reloading. Here is an example from Ozark Ordinance for $0.56 a round. Their ammo seems to be loaded very consistently, with my rifle from a rest at 100 yards, with this ammo I can consistently get sub 1 1/2" groups measured outside to outside. So subtracting the .308" diameter of the bullet that's barely over 1 moa center to center.
http://www.ozarkordnance.com/300-AAC-Blackout-150gr-FMJ-Qty-250_p_15.html
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/wcoats1/20140801_220818_zpsd0ceac24.jpg (http://s605.photobucket.com/user/wcoats1/media/20140801_220818_zpsd0ceac24.jpg.html)

NativePride
August 27, 2014, 03:02 AM
Sweet. well 300 is the way i am going now i need a recommendation on suppressor and a 1-4x scope

On scopes I have considered Leupold VXR Patrol, Burris Extreme and also the ACOG but would rather not drop that much in the ACOG....

For suppressors I was considering the AAC 7.62SD

what are your guys thoughts on these items and any other recommendations....

mavracer
August 27, 2014, 09:05 AM
I have a Burris AR332 on my Blackout and love it, It's a 3X red/green dot and defaults to a black reticle when turned off or has dead batterys;)
Can't help with the can I'm still looking at those and I haven't SBR'd mine yet.

wcoats
August 27, 2014, 01:28 PM
For a 1-4X scope I've been very happy with my Millett DMS scope. I really like the reticle with a 10MOA circle and a 1MOA dot in the center.

I know there are better and more expensive scopes out there, but it's a great scope to only be a little over $200
http://www.amazon.com/Millet-1-4x-Multi-Rifle-Scope/dp/B001CF8YPU

Bullnettles
August 27, 2014, 03:22 PM
I went with a Gemtech Sandstorm, and it's great. The weight difference is definitely noticeable on a 10.5" SBR. It's a little extra, but I got a smoking deal on mine I couldn't turn down.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 28, 2014, 10:21 AM
On the AAC, the 7.62-SDN-6 is a nice, compact suppressor that matches well for .300 (mine is shorter than my reflexed 5.56mm suppressor); but it weighs a ton. If you aren't going to go full-auto or do mag dumps, a titanium suppressor might keep it a little handier.

As for optics, you have such a range of bullets and velocities available in .300 that I think mil-dot or milrad (1-?x) is the way to go. There are all kinds of "ballistic reticles" but none of the generic ones are going to match up with the variation between 110gr supersonic and 220gr subsonic. And even the .300 BLK specific ballistic reticles are only going to match certain rounds closely - meaning you'll just end up guessing anyway.

If you aren't going to be shooting past 100yds and accuracy isn't a major concern, then a mini-red dot keeps the rifle light and handy and does a great job - and at 100yds or so you can more or less eyeball the differences in various ammo.

Bullnettles
August 28, 2014, 10:24 AM
If price is a factor and .223 is on your radar at all, you may want to check out the four guy guns closeout on piston systems. I ordered one in 11.5" and will be using my 7.62 can on it. They're CHEAP at the moment. I'd link it, but not sure about the rules on that (and I'm typing this at work...)

Warp
September 1, 2014, 09:17 PM
Hard to go wrong with an AAC 762 SDN-6

A really nice 1-4x (love mine) is a Trijicon Accupoint TR24.

I would only recommend 300 if you reload, don't mind spending a lot on ammo, or don't plan to shoot it much.

NativePride
September 2, 2014, 01:23 AM
I think I am going to go with the AAC 762 SDN-6 found a online coupom for $200 in freebies from AAC for that model

as far as scopes

I am really leaning towards one of these 3 all 3 are First Focal plane Any suggestions on these options. They all are eating a lot out of my SBR Build budget but don't want to skimp on the optics too much.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P48362.aspx

or

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-1-6x24-Geissele-Trigger-Surfire-60rd-Mag-P64247.aspx

or

http://swfa.com/Burris-15-8x28-XTR-II-34mm-Rifle-Scope-P68062.aspx

jmorris
September 2, 2014, 10:13 AM
I have an inexpensive Burris that I had to swap out a few times to get one that didn't loose zero. Later I picked up one of these, http://nightforceoptics.com/compacts/1-4x24-nxs-compact-riflescope/

I would call the Burris "skimping" but the NF is a lot of money for a 1-4, I have complete AR's that didn't cost as much.

Elkins45
September 2, 2014, 01:13 PM
I've never been accused of being an advocate of cheap scopes, but I can't see spending the amounts you are contemplating on a relatively short range rifle. I think this would be all you would ever need: http://swfa.com/Leupold-4x33-FX-II-Riflescope-P3265.aspx

Spend the difference on ammo.

Warp
September 2, 2014, 02:01 PM
I've never been accused of being an advocate of cheap scopes, but I can't see spending the amounts you are contemplating on a relatively short range rifle. I think this would be all you would ever need: http://swfa.com/Leupold-4x33-FX-II-Riflescope-P3265.aspx

Spend the difference on ammo.

Huge difference between the SWFA he posted and that Leupold.

The SWFA SS is an adjustable magnification from "true 1x" up to 4x and it has an illuminated reticle. It also has a really nifty FFP reticle. It is an entirely different optic that will do a lot more than a non illuminated fixed 4x

Elkins45
September 2, 2014, 02:44 PM
Huge difference between the SWFA he posted and that Leupold.

The SWFA SS is an adjustable magnification from "true 1x" up to 4x and it has an illuminated reticle. It also has a really nifty FFP reticle. It is an entirely different optic that will do a lot more than a non illuminated fixed 4x
I know it is in a different league, but I'm just wondering if a suppressed rifle (which assumes he's shooting subsonic and therefore probably not long ranges) really needs that level of glass. There's overkill and then there's OVERKILL. If someone were giving me the cash I would take the Leupold and the difference in ammo.

Of course if he just WANTS it then who am I to question? :D Maybe I'm just jealous.:what:

Warp
September 2, 2014, 03:46 PM
I know it is in a different league, but I'm just wondering if a suppressed rifle (which assumes he's shooting subsonic and therefore probably not long ranges) really needs that level of glass. There's overkill and then there's OVERKILL. If someone were giving me the cash I would take the Leupold and the difference in ammo.

Of course if he just WANTS it then who am I to question? :D Maybe I'm just jealous.:what:

I absolutely would not assume that just because a suppressor is planned the guy will only be shooting subsonic rounds.

Also, a 1-4x makes even more sense if that is the case, because subsonic .300 blk is best at pretty close ranges where the 1x low end of the scope combines with the illuminated reticle to act much like a red dot, absolutely blowing the non-illuminated fixed 4x out of the water in that role.

NativePride
September 2, 2014, 04:12 PM
I will be shooting subs and supers in tis rifle. Also it will be for hunting purposes so with my eyes I think adjustable power in a scope would be best suited for my needs. I know the price is high on these scope but I want super crisp optics. At least as crisp as I can get for the budget. As far as Ammo I am reloading mine and that cost money but is cheaper than buying in the store. I already have a dillon press so I just need the dies.

bangswitch
September 6, 2014, 02:08 AM
As for optics, you have such a range of bullets and velocities available in .300 that I think mil-dot or milrad (1-?x) is the way to go. There are all kinds of "ballistic reticles" but none of the generic ones are going to match up with the variation between 110gr supersonic and 220gr subsonic. And even the .300 BLK specific ballistic reticles are only going to match certain rounds closely - meaning you'll just end up guessing anyway.

If you aren't going to be shooting past 100yds and accuracy isn't a major concern, then a mini-red dot keeps the rifle light and handy and does a great job - and at 100yds or so you can more or less eyeball the differences in various ammo.

Agreed. While the BLK is effective out to 350-400 yards with max power mid-weight bullets (125-155), its strong point is as a shorter range, quick action rifle, especially if short barreled. A 1x red dot is a great choice out to 150 yards, you can get 3-4 MOA groups with no problem, which is easy body mass shooting in rapid-fire. My 1x Redfield has a 4MOA dot, which covers the whole dang bullseye at 100 yards, but it's no trouble putting all the rounds on the dot. I have three different sights, my irons are offset and zero'd at 50 yards, the laser at 50 also, for low-light conditions, and the red dot at 100 yards (actually green dot, so I can still see the laser through it). Mine is a 16" carbine, BTW

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