If you want a really small handgun


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Hunter2011
August 5, 2014, 04:27 AM
What options are out there?
Max lenght: 3.94'', max height, including sights: 3.55''
I want to get one for a online shooting comp at a local club, where the targed is placed at only 5 meters. The gun must be no bigger than the specs given.

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ugaarguy
August 5, 2014, 04:50 AM
The NAA mini revolver in .22 Short (http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/s/s.html) with 1&5/8" bbl may be your only option. The same gun in .22 LR is 4" long. Even the little Cobra derringers in .22 LR are 4" long. The Seecamp LWS 32 is the closest centerfire at 4.25", but there are no centerfires that meet your requirements: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B22wLsyYEkTOMDU4MjJlNTktOTRlZi00NTJkLWE0MGMtZmEwNGFlMWE3ZDlm/edit?hl=en_US.

This match sounds like a unicorn race.

Hunter2011
August 5, 2014, 05:36 AM
I also wonder why after searching for small guns. There just are no enough options out there.
attached is the document of the rules, just to show I am not thumpsucking:D

Pete D.
August 5, 2014, 06:25 AM
Bernardelli VP25 - a baby Browning clone:
http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr287/PeteDoyle/Bernardelli.jpg (http://s492.photobucket.com/user/PeteDoyle/media/Bernardelli.jpg.html)

herkyguy
August 5, 2014, 11:33 AM
Sounds like someone is writing rules around a very specific gun they have in mind.

Digvideo
August 5, 2014, 05:14 PM
Repulsive

MachIVshooter
August 5, 2014, 07:00 PM
Baby Browning or clones (such as the Bauer) are the only ones that come to mind.

toivo
August 5, 2014, 07:04 PM
PSA (Precision Small Arms) makes a really nice Baby Browning clone. They aren't cheap, but they're very nice.

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss331/tomi245/DSCF0416.jpg

56hawk
August 5, 2014, 07:40 PM
Walther Model 9 is the only thing I can find under 4".

jbj
August 6, 2014, 02:12 AM
Ha! The Rohrbaugh looks like a duty sidearm by comparison
http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/products

ArchAngelCD
August 6, 2014, 03:14 AM
The Beretta Tomcat and Bobcat will make the box gun limits but not the Mini-Box Gun limits you are trying to fill. All the very small guns I looked at are over the the mini-Box gun limits but many will comply with the box gun limits.

I think the LM5 from American Derringer in 25 ACP is small enough.

ugaarguy
August 6, 2014, 05:59 AM
Folks, every reference I can find shows all the baby Browning clones to be 4.0 to 4.1 inches OAL, which is too long for the OP's requirements. It seems like the rules for this match were written around the Walther Model 9.

Dr.Rob
August 6, 2014, 06:50 AM
Not even a Colt Vest pocket .25 is that small. Just under 4.5" long.

Hunter2011
August 6, 2014, 06:53 AM
I think I am going to email them to give me a list of appropriate guns and see what happens:D

ugaarguy
August 6, 2014, 07:08 AM
I think I am going to email them to give me a list of appropriate guns and see what happens :D
Please share their response :).

SleazyRider
August 6, 2014, 08:27 AM
The rules state that " the whole frame, sights and grip, fits into a rectangle of 3.94 x 3.55."

Thinking outside the box a bit, what if the gun is placed into this rectangle vertically and on a diagonal, in other words, standing on its barrel. Now even my .22 caliber Sterling Model 302 would fit. It would open up a whole world of possibilities. If this is how the rule may be interpreted, perhaps they should state that the gun must be able to pass through a 3.94 X 3.55 rectangle.

Another possibility that entered my mind is that we are assuming the gun must be fully assembled. Is it acceptable to remove the slide and/or grips as long as they collectively fit into the rectangle?

Forgive me if I'm off-base here; I cheat at poker, too.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq315/Magnageek/DSCN1129_zpsa510561d.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/user/Magnageek/media/DSCN1129_zpsa510561d.jpg.html)

Hunter2011
August 6, 2014, 09:59 AM
The rules state that " the whole frame, sights and grip, fits into a rectangle of 3.94 x 3.55."

Thinking outside the box a bit, what if the gun is placed into this rectangle vertically and on a diagonal, in other words, standing on its barrel. Now even my .22 caliber Sterling Model 302 would fit. It would open up a whole world of possibilities. If this is how the rule may be interpreted, perhaps they should state that the gun must be able to pass through a 3.94 X 3.55 rectangle.

Another possibility that entered my mind is that we are assuming the gun must be fully assembled. Is it acceptable to remove the slide and/or grips as long as they collectively fit into the rectangle?

Forgive me if I'm off-base here; I cheat at poker, too.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq315/Magnageek/DSCN1129_zpsa510561d.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/user/Magnageek/media/DSCN1129_zpsa510561d.jpg.html)
Good questions.
I am awaiting their response to my mail.

oneounceload
August 6, 2014, 12:36 PM
You sure the OAL is not just for the barrel? THAT opens up a lot more possibilities

Haywood
August 6, 2014, 01:00 PM
J-Frame & NAA

WestKentucky
August 6, 2014, 02:36 PM
Haven't looked at specs but maybe Taurus view? Swing load derringer folded up? Otherwise a tiny 22lr junk revolver (RG 22) and a hacksaw to the grip and barrel plus a grinder to the hammer spur.

Hunter2011
August 7, 2014, 04:16 AM
You're going to buy a gun, just for some little match? Wow. I'd pay somebody there $20 to let me use theirs for a minute or 2 (if I bothered with such a thing, that is). The size limitation is ridiculous
Not just for the match. I will also use it then as a backup to my main SD gun. In my country you are not allowed more than 1 SD license. If you want more than one handgun, it must be licensed as a sporting weapon. This option from this club gives me this oportunity to own such a small gun.

Edit: They did come back to me. They did not explain how it works, but according to them, a Baby Browning or simular are what they have in mind, despite it being longer than 100mm:confused:

bannockburn
August 7, 2014, 10:52 AM
Hunter2011

If that's the case I would go with a Baby Browning or a PSA-25 (Precision Small Arms), if this affords you the option of qualifying for another license. I love my Baby Browning but then I have always had a certain fascination with miniature guns.
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/TailoAltera/guns2028_zpsf7ca7147.jpg (http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/TailoAltera/media/guns2028_zpsf7ca7147.jpg.html)

ArchAngelCD
August 7, 2014, 07:47 PM
I think I am going to email them to give me a list of appropriate guns and see what happens:D

Please share their response :).
Yes, please let us know what they tell you...

ArchAngelCD
August 7, 2014, 07:53 PM
Since you want to have this sporting gun as a backup why not register a "Box Gun" instead of a "Mini Box Gun?" The slightly larger box for that match will allow you to add MANY more guns to the possibility list.

DT Guy
August 7, 2014, 07:58 PM
I thought the rules with a 'box' was 'it has to fit in the box', without regard to orientation or such; if that's the case, as mentioned there'd be lots of guns that fit.


Larry

MCgunner
August 7, 2014, 08:35 PM
My .22 mag NAA Black Widow should fit in anything reasonable folded in its folding grip. It shoots to POA and shoots 3.5" at 25 yards off a bench rest. Would be my pick if one of my snubby revolvers didn't fit the box.

GEM
August 8, 2014, 12:12 AM
I love my NAA 22S. It is so cute. It is not the most accurate gun though. :D

Hunter2011
August 8, 2014, 05:15 AM
Since you want to have this sporting gun as a backup why not register a "Box Gun" instead of a "Mini Box Gun?" The slightly larger box for that match will allow you to add MANY more guns to the possibility list.

Good suggestion:)
My PT709 fits in the ''Box Gun'' I will use the 709 for that.
Then it will leave open spaces for something smaller in the ''mini box'' and for something full-size in the normal standard category.

Here I can get a baby Browning for less than the price of a box of premium 9mm ammo, so why not:D

redefined
August 8, 2014, 09:34 AM
Shooting comps with these! Yikes, sounds painful. Looks smaller than a .380 ankle gun, not made for us guys with larger hands.

Hunter2011
August 8, 2014, 09:39 AM
Luckily you only need to shoot 5 shots, and how hard can a .25 recoil:)

ArchAngelCD
August 8, 2014, 09:51 AM
Here I can get a baby Browning for less than the price of a box of premium 9mm ammo, so why not:D
Oh now you're just showing off! :p I'm jealous!!! :)

While the Baby Brownings here are not super expensive they are not as cheap as where you live. I think they are in the $500 range which is not inexpensive by any means. I guess everything is a trade-off everywhere you live.

oneounceload
August 8, 2014, 01:51 PM
Since there is a country difference, the baby browning or (what I have) is a Colt .25 from around 1910 as near as we can tell. Still shoots great

MCgunner
August 8, 2014, 03:48 PM
I love my NAA 22S. It is so cute. It is not the most accurate gun though.

I'm guessing they're not Black Widows. My Black Widow is almost as accurate as most snubby revolvers. I can take down 5 of 5 8" plates at 25 yards pretty easily off hand with it. I'll miss one occasionally, my fault. I'm not sure the folding grip FOLDED for the box test would be legal to the rules of the competition, though. I do have the original short boot grip for it.

Hunter2011
August 9, 2014, 01:20 AM
Oh now you're just showing off! :p I'm jealous!!! :)

While the Baby Brownings here are not super expensive they are not as cheap as where you live. I think they are in the $500 range which is not inexpensive by any means. I guess everything is a trade-off everywhere you live.

I'm talking about secondhand prices, if it can let you feel less jealous:)

DT Guy
August 9, 2014, 07:50 AM
I thought maybe it meant 9MM premium ammo was SUPER-expensive out there...:)


Larry

Hunter2011
August 9, 2014, 11:41 AM
I've seen these pocket .25's for as little as R250.00 if bought from a private individual. 25 rounds of premium ammo costs around R380.00 here. The next one I see I will have to take.

DT Guy
August 10, 2014, 10:34 AM
Just did the conversion; so you're getting those .25's for under $30? I'd have a ROOMFUL of them. :)



Larry

GEM
August 10, 2014, 08:35 PM
I have a 22 Mag/LR NAA with the 1 5/8 barrel and the rubber slip on grips.

For grins, I shot the old TX DPS CHL test with it and got about a 230. I lost most points on some missed head shots that I tried.

With the 22S, I shot about a 150. The far shots were hard.

I didn't practice intensively, just wanted to try it out.

So, the first gun is reasonable, the second is just cute and would be an extreme 3rd level backup

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