Texas proposes alcohol sales at some gun shows


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Midwest
August 11, 2014, 09:54 PM
Texas proposes alcohol sales at some gun shows

Surprised no one has reported this yet. Texas is considering allowing alcohol sales at gun shows. What is your opinion?

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26236762/texas-proposes-alcohol-sales-at-some-gun-shows

"AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A Texas agency wants to allow alcohol sales at gun shows that meet certain requirements, including not allowing live ammunition."
.

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xjsnake
August 11, 2014, 09:58 PM
Pass. I know it said no live ammunition would be allowed but I'm still gonna pass.

Impureclient
August 11, 2014, 10:04 PM
Why does somebody need alcohol while purchasing a gun? Are there people out there that are so hard up for a buzz that can't wait til they get home to drink?

Dean1818
August 11, 2014, 10:05 PM
No problem.....

Why not?

Midwest
August 11, 2014, 10:17 PM
This kind of reminds me of a thread I seen recently awhile back here on THR regarding the 51% signs and a gun giveaway.

"Texas 51% signs and the presentation of a rifle at an event"

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=747784

.

Schutzen
August 11, 2014, 10:20 PM
No live ammo at gun shows? Many people I know shop for most of their ammo at gun shows. Sounds like a way to reduce the availability of ammo to shooters.

TennJed
August 11, 2014, 10:21 PM
I rather have ammo than alcohol at my gun show. Stupid idea

Sam1911
August 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
Somewhere there must be a gun show without ammo (on purpose?). But I've never heard of that before.

Seems like this would be a VERY small set of shows. Sort of like saying you're allowed to drink and drive on days when no one else leaves their homes.

I'm 100% for the greatest freedoms for the greatest number of people, but this seems like a non-issue.

RustyShackelford
August 11, 2014, 10:27 PM
I've heard the "logic" was to get people sauced so they buy more guns & products at the gun shows. :rolleyes:
That's why casinos ply free hooch on the gaming floors. Also why everyone smokes like smoke stacks too, :rolleyes: .
I've heard of bad ideas but selling alcoholic beverages near or by guns & ammo is a Hall of Fame bad idea.

Maybe some elected officials or the ATF will be the voice of reason. :uhoh:

nathan
August 11, 2014, 10:27 PM
18 yrs ago picked up a 1911 on a private seller at a gunshow. I right away remove the magazine and lo and behold it was loaded with FMJs. I was shocked to say the least . The seller right away got the gun away from me.

Nope i dont want any alcohol . Too much xxx can happen.

Comrade Mike
August 11, 2014, 10:37 PM
Terrible idea. Alcohol and guns don't mix, ever.

Ohen Cepel
August 11, 2014, 10:40 PM
Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure New York (yes of all places) allowed beer sales at their gun shows. Or at least at the one I went to several times when there.

No, I do not think it's a good idea and thought it extra crazy that New York would think it was ok!

Bobson
August 11, 2014, 10:46 PM
Why does somebody need alcohol while purchasing a gun? Are there people out there that are so hard up for a buzz that can't wait til they get home to drink?
Those are my thoughts as well. Guns and alcohol don't mix, ever.

danez71
August 11, 2014, 10:51 PM
No problem.....

Why not?


This is my initial thought.

It should be allowed regardless of the frequency of ND's at gun shows.

rcmodel
August 11, 2014, 11:01 PM
Why not?

Do you think for a minute everyone that walks in the door at a gun show is sober?
Or not doing drugs in the parking lot before coming right on in?

Years ago, one of the biggest dealers in the huge annual MVAC collector show in KC put away a full case or more of Black Jack Daniels quarts over two days..

By Sunday afternoon, the guy would be too drunk to get up out of his chair to go pee.
So one of his henchmen would help him to the restroom, and help him back to his tables & folding chair.
Right next to his dwindling case of BJD.

But he could still screw you out of a trade, take all your extra money, and make you go away liking it!

Just don't get in his face while haggling over the trade.
His breath would kill flys at 10' feet, outside in the wind!

Never killed anyone that I know of, except himself from drinking.

rc

aarondhgraham
August 11, 2014, 11:22 PM
At the Wannenmacher gun show in Tulsa,,,
And I think all of the gun shows in that pavilion,,,
The snack bar sells draft beer in mugs that look like oil derricks.

When people say "no live ammo",,,
I think they mean no live ammo in your guns.

Even if you have a carry permit,,,
You have to unload your gun at the door,,,
If you want to keep it on your person they will zip-tie it.

The whole thing about guns and alcohol together is a moot point,,,
Both sides can argue their case and change no minds,,,
If you drink or not it's your personal choice.

I say if you can't have a beer or two and still act safely,,,
You probably shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

If it's such a big no-no,,,
Ban pics of guns and bottles of whiskey.

But that would be something Bloomberg would do.

JM ns HO - YMMV

Aarond

P.S. There is a sign on my office wall that reads:

Computers allow one to make more mistakes faster than any other invention of man,,,
With the possible exception of handguns and tequila.

.

barnbwt
August 11, 2014, 11:26 PM
I'd rather have some Shiner than the crummy jerky they always have at these things. Even more, I'd prefer they restrict the goods to gun stuff at these things :rolleyes:

TCB

newfalguy101
August 11, 2014, 11:33 PM
A few years back I and my daughter went to a show about 100 miles from here, as I pulled into the driveway of the event I saw some guys out back shooting ( was outside city limits so I suppose it was legal..... ). I didn't think too much about it until we got to the front door and the guys taking money had a cooler of beer on the floor between them, and I saw more than one vendor drinking also, we made a couple passes through the small show and left without spending a dime as I recall, and as far as I know that particular show has since folded up and gone away.

Selling alcohol at the show wouldn't bug me too much, consuming on the other hand, I will take a pass thank you very much.

Bobson
August 12, 2014, 12:13 AM
Do you think for a minute everyone that walks in the door at a gun show is sober?
Or not doing drugs in the parking lot before coming right on in?
So the fact that some people booze up and smoke crack in their cars before going into the show is adequate justification for officially authorizing everyone to get blitzed while handling firearms.

Seems like somewhat shaky logic.

What good can possibly come of it? It's an accident waiting to happen.

welldoya
August 12, 2014, 12:22 AM
No need for it. It would just give the anti-gunners more ammo.
Keep alcohol and guns separate.

morcey2
August 12, 2014, 12:35 AM
Why does somebody need alcohol while purchasing a gun?

Have you seen the gun prices at a gun show lately? The vendors are pushing the change. Kinda like the free alcohol at casinos. Helps lubricate the wallet. :D

Matt

zxcvbob
August 12, 2014, 12:42 AM
It sounds like a false-controversy to me. I don't see a need for beer at a gun show, but I don't see a problem with it either. You get drunk, they escort you out.

lxd55
August 12, 2014, 12:50 AM
no problem from me, we can cc in a bar as long as we do not drink. I see no difference.

lxd55
August 12, 2014, 12:53 AM
bobson you gonna get blitzed, why would you think everyone else would?
profound logic.

vamo
August 12, 2014, 12:59 AM
I don't really see a problem with so long as the guns are unloaded. A gun show is for the most part is a chance to gather with other like minded enthusiast and look at some guns that most of us don't get to see everyday.

Bobson
August 12, 2014, 01:32 AM
bobson you gonna get blitzed, why would you think everyone else would?
profound logic.
I never said "everyone" would get drunk; but offering alcohol at any venue and pretending people aren't going to get hammered is moronic.

My point was simply, just because some people break the rules doesn't mean we change the rules to make it okay.

I think that should have been a fairly elementary deduction. I guess you missed it. Your use of the word logic was cute, by the way. ;)

zxcvbob
August 12, 2014, 01:36 AM
I never said "everyone" would get drunk; but offering alcohol at any venue and pretending people aren't going to get hammered is moronic.


So why don't we just outlaw alcohol completely? It worked so well last time...

Twiki357
August 12, 2014, 01:47 AM
"AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A Texas agency wants to allow alcohol sales at gun shows that meet certain requirements, including not allowing live ammunition."

Isn’t that one of big selling items at gun shows?

ColtPythonElite
August 12, 2014, 02:23 AM
If the beer costs as much at gun shows as everything else, I doubt if many will get drunk.

Bobson
August 12, 2014, 04:50 AM
Do you think for a minute everyone that walks in the door at a gun show is sober?
Or not doing drugs in the parking lot before coming right on in?So the fact that some people booze up and smoke crack in their cars before going into the show is adequate justification for officially authorizing everyone to get blitzed while handling firearms? Seems like shaky logic.bobson you gonna get blitzed, why would you think everyone else would?I never said "everyone" would get drunk; but offering alcohol at any venue and pretending people aren't going to get hammered is moronic. My point was simply, just because some people break the rules doesn't mean we change the rules to make it okay.So why don't we just outlaw alcohol completely? It worked so well last time...
What? Were you drunk when you wrote this? I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.

You were the first one to suggest a fresh prohibition, and the way you offered it as a response in no way defeats, strengthens, or even addresses the post you replied to, or anything that came before it.

mag1911
August 12, 2014, 05:48 AM
"If the beer costs as much at gun shows as everything else, I doubt if many will get drunk."

Ain't that the truth. Last show I attended a double cheeseburger, fries, pop was $13.50. If they sold beer there it would probably have been $10 a can.

vaupet
August 12, 2014, 07:00 AM
I know we have a different culture on alcohol, but in Belgium, every shooting range serves alcoholic beverages, with no problem at all as long as I can remember.

There is one rule: you can't drink before you are done shooting and weapon and ammo are back in your storage bagg, but, in general people aren't to strict about that.

I know a lot of shooters who have one or two beers before a match. Helps them to calm their nerves a little. (it is considered doping)

I also have some pictures from switserland, were, at the shooting fests, after the match, the fully automatic stg90 goes with the people in the beertent and are stacked next to the table in a nice piramid, and of course, nothing goes wrong.

Mp7
August 12, 2014, 07:27 AM
If it was my "land of the free"
i would definitely want the freedom
to decide wether i am having a beer while
browsing the tables of stuff.


But i am german.
What do i know about freedom.
Or beer.

dab102999
August 12, 2014, 07:35 AM
Don't like the idea only from the standpoint of "Public image" but with that said not against it either. I would be no more worried about someone getting plasterer at a gun show then the guy in a car next to me at a stop light.

I also won't buy a brick of 22 for high dollar either so serve some beer...maybe my wallet will be more likely to become lighter...lol

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 08:10 AM
But i am german.
What do i know about freedom.
Or beer.
Mp7,

The United States went through a terrible time early in the last century called "Prohibition" in which we tried a national experiment to blame all the ills of society on alcohol, and outlawed it as a scapegoat through which we thought we would drive out our demons.

Even in the most enlightened areas, many of our social attitudes and our laws still bear the black, bilious imprint of those times. So while almost all of us will say we enjoy various kinds of alcoholic beverages, there is an underlying guilt and distrust just beneath the skin that has been handed down from our Victorian great (and great-great) grandparents. Many parts of the country still have "blue laws." Some states still have "dry" counties. It is actually ILLEGAL to even give a low alcohol-content beer to any person under 21 years of age. (Though we can force them to carry a machine gun and die in a war at 18.)

Among gun folks (who will swear they'll die for freedom) this attitude lingers in the statements we make about our own "zero tolerance" attitudes, how we need laws to keep people from carrying guns to a restaurant that serves alcohol because we just can't trust ourselves not to <fill in some heinous crime here> because they've been overtaken by Demon Rum.

Last year we had a minor squabble here at THR when one member got outraged with another who'd posted a picture of himself enjoying a beer next to his campfire late at night after a long day on the trail, and there was a rifle in the picture. (Yeah, that's it. Just HAD a rifle nearby.) Anytime someone mentions alcohol and guns in the same paragraph, there will be a negative reaction of some kind.

We are pretty funny people, sometimes, but we take ourselves very seriously because we're secretly very fearful.

Mp7
August 12, 2014, 08:33 AM
@Sam

Having lived in a dry county in KY, that just recently
has voted itself "wet" ... i do know that history.

Still the fact that people are allowed to drive and have guns
earlier than they are being trusted to intoxicate themselves
.... does not fit with my logical thinking.

But hey.... i did not see much in the US
that had anything to do with logical thinking :D

*runsaway*

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 08:38 AM
But hey.... i did not see much in the world
that had anything to do with logical thinking

Seems more realistic that way. Everybody's crazy. We all just get stupid about different things in different ways. :)

Having lived in a dry county in KY, that just recently
has voted itself "wet" ... i do know that history.Ahhh, good to know! KY does come to mind as a place that has such a muddled history with alcohol that it would be unbelievable to most folks who aren't from here. Imagine if Bordeaux had outlawed consumption of wine for several hundred years.

hso
August 12, 2014, 08:49 AM
No live ammunition and the firearms have to be disabled and not readily converted for use would mean it isn't a gunshow. Zip tying firearms won't qualify as "not readily converted for use" and what gunshow doesn't have live ammunition for sale?

Carl N. Brown
August 12, 2014, 09:15 AM
From the AP story on the proposed Texas rule: "Under current rules, if a gun show is held at a venue licensed to sell alcohol, drinks sales and consumption are suspended during the time it takes to set up, conduct and dismantle the gun show."

For all I know, that could mean that they want to allow the restaurant or concession stands at the venue where the gun show is held, to do business as usual. I don't think it means selling alcohol in the gun show itself as some posters seem to assume.

I also see the restrictions on alcohol sales at gun shows proposed in Texas to be the kind of restrictions intended to be onerous enough to nix the idea.


The gun shows I have attended have been at locations that had concession stands where food and beverages were sold: the Fair Grounds, the Civic Auditorium, and the Convention Center, consumed in a dining area set aside on the Auditorium stage and in the Center lobby facing the Center's concession stand. (The concession stand at the Auditorium was set up by the gun show and could not have a liquor license to sale alcolohol.) I believe the restaurant at the Convention Center has a liquor license and serves alcohol with meals, but I seem to recall you could not enter the gunshow from the restaurant side.

I have not seen alcohol consumption at a gun show locally, so I suspect a no-alcohol rule is followed whether it is the law locally or not.

That said, I do find it strange that people believe one would only drink alcohol to get a "buzz" on or get "hammered", or that people who drink alcohol all drink to the level of impairment or recklessness. Some people drink wine or beer with food, or have an after-dinner drink, like civilized human beings exercising self control and individual responsibility. In other words, they act like most gun owners I know.

And I grew up in a county that was "dry" from 1953 to 1968. The kind of people who want to get "hammered" are gonna smuggle their own hotch into an alcohol-free environment anyway. Or get their "buzz" on in the parking lot.

jrdolall
August 12, 2014, 10:21 AM
I have no problem with it but I do think security would need to be tighter and more willing to toss someone. I don't drink anymore, other than maybe a glass of wine at a business dinner, but I think MOST people drink responsibly and would have a beer as they walked around and then go home. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what MOST people do as it only takes one drunk with a gun to cause a problem. I DO NOT think this is about anything having to do with increased gun sales but probably more about the vendor that handles alcohol seeing all those customers wandering around and not being able to "tap" into that revenue.
I am completely against the drinking age of 18 for several reasons. A 35 year old drunk is no more responsible than an 18 year old drunk. We ask our young people to fight in wars but they can't legally have a beer after the battle. Teenagers can legally perform in pornographic movies at 18 but can't drink a glass of wine with dinner. The list goes on and on. Most of the consumption laws in this country are asinine. That does NOT include the driving laws. I am pretty much okay with severe penalties for drinking and driving as well as low BA levels.

ClickClickD'oh
August 12, 2014, 10:56 AM
This story is being wildly misreported. The proposed rule change has zero to do with what is commonly called a "gun show".

"The proposed change, which was announced Friday and is open to public comments for 30 days, would allow locations that are owned or leased by government or nonprofit organizations, and which only show or display guns “occasionally,” to to sell alcohol during those events as long as they meet three conditions: There can be no live ammunition in the facility; all guns must be “disabled and not readily convertible for use,” and no guns sold can be delivered to buyers on the premises.

The proposed rule would also allow alcohol sales at historical reenactments that involve firearms, as long as the firearms are historically accurate and kept unloaded or loaded with blanks."

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/08/08/new-commission-rules-would-allow-alcohol-gun-shows/

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 11:03 AM
So, going way back up to post 8...

Seems like this would be a VERY small set of shows. ... this seems like a non-issue.

Deltaboy
August 12, 2014, 11:11 AM
No No no way Guns and beer don't mix no where, no way at no time. If they serve booze at at gun show I won't Go.

RustyShackelford
August 12, 2014, 11:33 AM
If you sell alcoholic beverages there will be patrons or customers who will imbibe(drink) to excess. :rolleyes:
Alcohol is a depressant too. Do you want a highly intoxicated gun show patron near firearms or weapons? :eek:

As for the "hey so what" posts, I say look at nearly any NFL stadium on game day or college football game arena during "tailgating". There's many, many intoxicated fans or people who drank a bit too much.
Should these gun show patrons then say: "hey, let me roll out my debit card & buy 15 guns"? :rolleyes:

RS

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 11:39 AM
Should these gun show patrons then say: "hey, let me roll out my debit card & buy 15 guns"?

Why the heck not?

ONE MORE TIME:

"There can be no live ammunition in the facility; all guns must be “disabled and not readily convertible for use,” and no guns sold can be delivered to buyers on the premises."

So if guns were even sold at these "gun shows" (which really aren't), they'd be deactivated. I guess you could make the argument that all these raging drunks would then use them as clubs to bonk each other over the head with, but otherwise this just a great example of our juvenile hand-wringing over demonic possession by alcohol. Somebody mentions guns and alcohol in the same post and our collective bowels loosen.

hso
August 12, 2014, 12:28 PM
The proposed change appears to be directed at allowing concessions to make the more profitable beer, wine, mixed drink sales available, but under specific circumstances where firearms are on display as opposed to "real" gun shows.

Remember that a lot of events may have a display of significant firearms and this is the focus. Heck, every annual Friends of the NRA auction dinner has these and you wouldn't want the caterer or concessions to be prohibited from selling drinks.

bannockburn
August 12, 2014, 12:35 PM
Having alcohol sales at a gun show with no ammunition sales is not something that would interest me. I have found some great deals on ammo at gun shows and I wouldn't want to lose that opportunity just so they can have an open bar at the show.

Art Eatman
August 12, 2014, 12:38 PM
Back when Austin gun shows were in either the basement of the city auditorium or in the now-gone coliseum, a concession booth sold beer along with hot dogs, chili and chips/cheese. I don't recall any problem that was beer-related in some thirty or more shows I did there.

Prices were a bit high, so most of us dealers brought our beer in coolers.

oneounceload
August 12, 2014, 12:39 PM
The big gun shows in Reno had live ammo AND alcohol (and food) sales - So what? Someone having a beer with their hotdog does not a barroom brawl make - they never had any issues either.

ApacheCoTodd
August 12, 2014, 12:58 PM
I've done lots of shows with beer and sometimes mixed drinks available. The worst I recall is myself making iffy purchase and sale decisions after having a couple three bloody marys at the Reno show (it is after all in a Casino) and a fella in Portland spilling his screwdriver onto the stock os an absolutely beautiful Bastogne walnut stocked m-14. About 18 hours of work due to that one.

Still, it's not anything new in the industry and it's not like a bunch of drunks are wandering around a coliseum with loaded guns and children.

If the added revenue to the venue - which is significant - helps to support the continued existence of the show... I say, bring on the hootch!

Carl N. Brown
August 12, 2014, 01:35 PM
Well, again, the Texas law was about alcohol sales at the "venue". The "venue" here in Kingsport, Tennessee would be the restaurant at the convention center (the only entity I see having the license to sell and serve alcohol). I am pretty sure there is a requirement for a "brick and mortar" address on a license to serve alcohol to the public, and nomads like gun shows aint gonna git one.

So I wonder who brought this up, the Texas gunshow operators, or the Texas hotel/convention center/auditoriums with alcohol licenses who lose revenue on the weekends that gunshows are held.

wally
August 12, 2014, 02:21 PM
My take is its a back door way to close larger venues to gun shows by claiming the politically connected "food and beverage service" operators "need" to sell alcohol.

ApacheCoTodd
August 12, 2014, 02:22 PM
Well, again, the Texas law was about alcohol sales at the "venue". The "venue" here in Kingsport, Tennessee would be the restaurant at the convention center (the only entity I see having the license to sell and serve alcohol). I am pretty sure there is a requirement for a "brick and mortar" address on a license to serve alcohol to the public, and nomads like gun shows aint gonna git one.

So I wonder who brought this up, the Texas gunshow operators, or the Texas hotel/convention center/auditoriums with alcohol licenses who lose revenue on the weekends that gunshows are held.
I'm not sure that I completely understand the point but the show promoter is not the one to carry the "on sale" license. They (the license holders) are the venue management/ownership or on rare occasions where applicable, contract vendors.

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 02:23 PM
My take is its a back door way to close larger venues to gun shows by claiming the politically connected "food and beverage service" operators "need" to sell alcohol.

That is getting pretty deep.

wally
August 12, 2014, 02:32 PM
That is getting pretty deep.

How so? if the venues "need to sell alcohol" allows them to place restrictions on shows -- like no ammo sales! That would make the gun shows not worthwhile that is exactly how it would be "back door" closing of the venue.

I don't see any earthly reason for selling booze at gun shows, and while its been a long while since I've found any "deals" on ammo at gun shows, a lot of shooters buy from the local commercial reloaders at these shows.

TRX
August 12, 2014, 02:49 PM
Best as I can tell with a quick web search, Arkansas doesn't prohibit the sale of alcohol at gun shows.

I'm fairly sure I've seen vendors selling plastic cups of beer at some shows here. I would never have occurred to me that some places might have a law against it.

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 03:17 PM
How so? if the venues "need to sell alcohol" allows them to place restrictions on shows -- like no ammo sales! That would make the gun shows not worthwhile that is exactly how it would be "back door" closing of the venue.

If the venues want to shut down gun shows they could ... like, you know ... not allow gun shows. Coming up with a long-winded excuse about how they NEED to sell alcohol (Need to? Says who?) so they're going to kill off the shows is just silly.

The argument wasn't that they had a moral obligation to sell booze, but rather that they could make MORE MONEY if they do. Closing down the shows entirely would seem to be exactly the opposite of making more money.



...

And besides, if you read any of the pertinent things written above you'll see that this has NOTHING to do with what we think of as "gun shows" anyway, but only pertains to certain kinds of exhibitions where guns are only tangentially present. If these events they're discussing do not sell guns then they aren't gun shows, in the sense that we know them.

Think sportsmans' club balls, hunting expositions, and the like. Not swap-and-sell gun shows like we attend each month. Read post 41 again.

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.

jrdolall
August 12, 2014, 04:07 PM
Maybe a free 12 pack with a pistol purchase?

dragon813gt
August 12, 2014, 04:21 PM
So the clubs I belong to shouldn't sell beer? They at least don't let you shoot once you buy a beer. But nothing is stopping you from drinking before you get there. I can only imagine the horror some of you would experience at the monthly board shoots. These are held at fire houses that serve alcohol. And the shotgun rack is in the bar. People most certainly drink during these.

Serving alcohol at gun shows boils down to a public perception nightmare. We all know how the media is going to spin it. The likelihood of anything bad happening because if it are slim.

orionengnr
August 12, 2014, 05:51 PM
To me, it just shows (yet again) that our "public servants" in Austin are every bit as unfocused and easily led as the ones in DC.

This is (one reason) why neither Open Carry nor Campus Carry have ever come up for a vote, despite significant support from state Senate and House members.

Our state leadership has their priorities (and their heads) somewhere else. Since this is THR, I'll say no more.

HRnightmare
August 12, 2014, 06:05 PM
I think allowing alcohol at gun shows seems like a bad idea. The vendors probably want it because people get loose(r) with their money after drinking a few. That's why Vegas casinos give away free drinks to people gambling!


I think however if this gets out to the liberals it will go viral and will be bad for the 2A advocates cause! Sort of like the clowns carrying AR's and AK's in Chipotle have done (coincidentally also a recent occurence in TX)

It almost seems like Texas is giving a big middle finger to the rest of the union and the Fed Gov't by doing this. That however I suspect will back fire on them.

I vote NO.

HRnightmare
August 12, 2014, 06:07 PM
Serving alcohol at gun shows boils down to a public perception nightmare. We all know how the media is going to spin it. The likelihood of anything bad happening because if it are slim.

I agree completely... However I still say its a bad idea overall. Sometimes you have to concede in a small battle in order to better be prepared for the larger war. Allowing alcohol at a gun show would likely push more people who are on the fence about gun rights and control to the opposing side rather than attract them to "our side".

HRnightmare
August 12, 2014, 06:13 PM
Sorry to post back to back... more ideas keep coming to my head.

I can't even see alot of vendors liking this idea. Some of the gunshows by me have a lot of vendors who don't sell guns, but just sell ammo and accessories. Most of the larger vendors thart own stores locally sell both.

SO...I am thinking not only are the "anti's" going to not want this, but many of the gun show vendors are not going to want it either as it will cost them money...Unless of course they are gonig to replace selling their ammo with beer. I think this will have enemies on both sides and only a few supporters on the for it side.

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 06:51 PM
I can't even see alot of vendors liking this idea. Some of the gunshows by me have a lot of vendors who don't sell guns, but just sell ammo and accessories. Most of the larger vendors thart own stores locally sell both.

SO...I am thinking not only are the "anti's" going to not want this, but many of the gun show vendors are not going to want it either as it will cost them money...Unless of course they are gonig to replace selling their ammo with beer. I think this will have enemies on both sides and only a few supporters on the for it side.


HR, it makes much more sense if you understand that this isn't about GUN SHOWS. Read post 41, post 45, or the second half of post 57.

Onward Allusion
August 12, 2014, 06:53 PM
What's the difference between having a drink after work then driving home and having a drink while looking/handling an empty gun? Handling an empty gun is probably safer than driving, btw.

If a person can't control themselves after 1 or 2 beers, then they shouldn't be drinking in the first place.

DeepSouth
August 12, 2014, 07:05 PM
I say go for it, no biggie. Public intoxication laws still exist and would be strictly enforced I'm sure. So if someone wants to enjoy a beer or two while browsing guns I think he should be free to do it. It's just not a big deal.

My 2¢

Fishbed77
August 12, 2014, 07:16 PM
Firearms and alcohol don't mix where I come from.

ApacheCoTodd
August 12, 2014, 07:40 PM
Firearms and alcohol don't mix where I come from.
Right: Loaded firearms and alcohol don't mix.

And before you say it... If someone is wrong enough to load a round in a gunshow supposedly because of alcohol - then they don't need the alcohol to be stupid. If one believes that we are in an inherently more dangerous environment having alcohol at a gunshow due to diminished judgement the same could be said for ammunition at a gunshow to begin with.

If they don't have alcohol - fine, if they do, we're adults.

Now, an argument that a false fiscal base could be established by the; venue, municipality, county and/or state in order to later say that gun shows are not fiscally valid after withdrawing the alcohol revenue through legislation/corporate feel-good action? There's a not so "straw man" argument to be concerned with.

Point being:
It costs ($A) in revenue to support an event.
($A) eventually absorbs and in fact becomes dependent upon the alcohol revenues and becomes ($B).
($B) becomes the standard revenue amount to support an event.
Alcohol privileges are revoked returning revenue amounts to ($A) and the deciding party determines that since you can no longer have alcohol and the revenue is impacted accordingly, the shows get run out on a fiscal basis rather than a knee-jerk anti gun basis.

plexreticle
August 12, 2014, 07:46 PM
I don't care unless it comes with stipulations like no ammo sales.

I'm there to look at buy gun stuff, ammo included.

DeepSouth
August 12, 2014, 08:14 PM
Right: Loaded firearms and alcohol don't mix.

I'd even have to argue with that. I once bought a shotgun to be my "do all" shotgun the problem was I couldn't hit squat with it. Long story short I personally shot around 2k rounds that summer trying to learn it. I always shot with a friend sometimes 10 friends. I'd say almost every weekend of that summer I was shooting with people who were normally casually drinking. There was never a problem, never anything remotely careless, I'd do it again. As a matter of fact the most careless guy I remember never drank because he afraid of his wife. ;);)

That said a hunting club I was in once years back would get together and cook on our planting/cleanup day. Many of them would get well beyond tipsy, that's a no go, not that anything ever happened but I saw the four rules broken dozens of times.
There's a big difference in drinking a beer or 3 over the course of a afternoon and being drunk. Lumping them together and calling it bad is the same as saying water is bad because some people have drank theirselves to death with it.

Again my 2¢

Gun Geezer
August 12, 2014, 11:01 PM
Not even close.

A gun show proffered the idea, which would require a change of regs that govern gun shows.

It was suggested, so the appropriate agency put it out there for comment. That does NOT mean that "Texas" is making a proposal.


It'll never happen.

justice06rr
August 12, 2014, 11:24 PM
At the Wannenmacher gun show in Tulsa,,,
And I think all of the gun shows in that pavilion,,,
The snack bar sells draft beer in mugs that look like oil derricks.

When people say "no live ammo",,,
I think they mean no live ammo in your guns.

Even if you have a carry permit,,,
You have to unload your gun at the door,,,
If you want to keep it on your person they will zip-tie it.

The whole thing about guns and alcohol together is a moot point,,,
Both sides can argue their case and change no minds,,,
If you drink or not it's your personal choice.

I say if you can't have a beer or two and still act safely,,,
You probably shouldn't have a gun in the first place.

If it's such a big no-no,,,
Ban pics of guns and bottles of whiskey.

But that would be something Bloomberg would do.

JM ns HO - YMMV

Aarond


Good points.

I don't have a problem with alcohol, because I can control my own intake. Although its probably better if its sold outside of the gun show facilities and not inside--meaning no alcohol while in the gun show building or even if you are handling guns outside.

danez71
August 12, 2014, 11:26 PM
My point was simply, just because some people break the rules doesn't mean we change the rules to make it okay.


But allowing beer sales isn't changing any of the rules of guns.

That's like saying allowing beer sales at a baseball game is changing the rules of driving drunk.


Expanding my original post and being full disclosure, I don't really like the idea but I also know that that, IMO, banning beer is not right.... and I barely drink at all!

Remander
August 12, 2014, 11:35 PM
A guy explained on page 2 that this has nothing to do with the kind of "gun show" we go to.

It only applies to museum display type events with non functioning guns not sold on premises.

Sam1911
August 12, 2014, 11:36 PM
A gun show proffered the idea, which would require a change of regs that govern gun shows.

It was suggested, so the appropriate agency put it out there for comment. That does NOT mean that "Texas" is making a proposal.


It'll never happen.

Except that it ISN'T gun shows, because nothing that looks like a "Gun Show" as we know it is involved!!!

Geeze Louise, nobody's bothering to read what's actually being discussed!

ClickClickDOH posted this in number 41:


"The proposed change, which was announced Friday and is open to public comments for 30 days, would allow locations that are owned or leased by government or nonprofit organizations, and which only show or display guns “occasionally,” to to sell alcohol during those events as long as they meet three conditions: There can be no live ammunition in the facility; all guns must be “disabled and not readily convertible for use,” and no guns sold can be delivered to buyers on the premises.

The proposed rule would also allow alcohol sales at historical reenactments that involve firearms, as long as the firearms are historically accurate and kept unloaded or loaded with blanks."

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.

wally
August 13, 2014, 01:04 AM
If the venues want to shut down gun shows they could ... like, you know ... not allow gun shows.

Around here, not with venue's paid for with public money. The George R Brown Convention Center banned gun shows for a while shortly after they opened, but they lost a law suit over it, and now average about one a month from at least two different promoters. Some months have none, other have three, the shows have to compete with all other users for dates.

They would need some back door method like this to make it not attractive for gun shows, as just saying "we don't want gun shows" don't cut it here for taxpayer funded venues!

So I think "allowing" alcohol at gun shows is not a good idea simply because its not needed, and opens this potential backdoor -- not much of a gun show if no ammo or gun sales -- read your own quote, is once a month "occasionally" enough for the convention center to open the bars and then prevent gun and ammo sales?

HRnightmare
August 13, 2014, 10:10 AM
If one believes that we are in an inherently more dangerous environment having alcohol at a gunshow due to diminished judgement the same could be said for ammunition at a gunshow to begin with.

Alcohol has been proven to alter your decision making skills and reduce reaction time, reduce inhibitions, Scientifically it has been proven to aid in bad decision making.

Find me a study that says holding ammo in your hand alters your thought process and lowers your inhibitions?

oneounceload
August 13, 2014, 03:17 PM
If you do not want to have a beer, then don't. The way the guns shows are that I have been too, the beers are priced like the ballpark - EXPENSIVE. There's a small area to actually sit as it is also where folks are trying to eat one the EXPENSIVE sandwiches or hotdogs they sell. If you were THAT hardcore to get hammered, you would have done so before the show for a lot less. Someone walking around holding a beer and looking at guns is no more a threat (and maybe less so from the vendors' perspective) than they guy walking around with his 2-year old who just wants to touch EVERYTHING

kanook
August 13, 2014, 03:40 PM
40 gunshows a year for at least 15yrs is 600 gunshows that I worked at that served beer and not one person was so intoxicated they needed to be removed.

And before I worked for the store my wife and I would drive around the state to go to shows, 3 in a weekend sometimes.

If you don't want to drink, then don't.

And by saying that if beer is served everybody will get hammered is the same as saying that if open carry is permitted the streets will flow with blood.

DeepSouth
August 13, 2014, 09:53 PM
For what it's worth the NRA has weighed in the debate. The article says they sent out an aleart to members but I have a life membership and an annual membership and I didn't get the notice. Maybe it was just in Texas.

Hopefully the link will work, I copied it from a app so who knows.

http://news360.com/article/252541506

Sam1911
August 13, 2014, 09:58 PM
It warned that gun shows could no longer be held in hotels or other venues with Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC) permit, even if the events were alcohol-free. The NRA also complained that the rules sneak in new and unfamiliar "safety guidelines" to be imposed on shooting ranges and gun clubs.

Well now, that IS interesting. If anyone gets the details on their assessment, please post it here.

ClickClickD'oh
August 14, 2014, 12:40 PM
Here is the entirety of the proposed rule change:
https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/proposed/361am.asp

My guess is that the NRAs beef is with this:

"Proposed subsection (f) provides the requirements for a location that has a license or permit authorizing the on-premises consumption of alcoholic beverages and that allows a gun or firearms show or display. The location may be used for a gun or firearms display or show only on an occasional basis, and a written agreement between the permittee and the operator of the show or display containing certain provisions must be approved by the commission 30 days prior to the event."

That would seem to prevent some hotels from holding gun shows. Of course, nothing says that the NRA couldn't simply move the show to the Dallas Convention Center or the Will Rogers Center in Ft. Worth... where all the gun shows are already.

BruceB
August 15, 2014, 11:59 AM
I'm waiting foe an amigo to pick me up, and we are going to the Big Reno Gunshow, which is held three times a year.

For YEARS, there have been booze sales inside this Show, including hard liquor, at several bars (which open when the doors do, at 0900). One can even carry his drink along with him as he enjoys the Show.

It's also a bit humorous to see folks carrying rifles and shotguns through the lobbies, restaurants, and other places all through the Grand Sierra Resort. I often wonder about the reactions of people just off the airplane from Boston or New York....

I have never seen a problem with anyone drinking to excess in all the years I've attended this Show. Nor have there been examples of booze-related infractions related to the firearms themselves, at least to my knowledge.

Of course, this is Nevada, where it seems we do things differently than do a lot of other places.

Contrary to SOME outside opinions, it's not really Sodom-in-the-desert. It's just a place where restrictions are much less onerous than in many States AS LONG AS ONE BEHAVES HIMSELF.

22-rimfire
August 15, 2014, 12:33 PM
I have no problem with selling alcoholic beverages at gunshows. However, many or most concealed carry permits restrict the holder to not be drinking adult beverages while carrying a concealed gun.

Guns are supposed to be unloaded when brought into a gunshow unless it is a concealed carry piece. In which case, you generally can not unholster it inside a show unless you have cause.

Stores that sell guns often want you to go to the information desk if a firearm is brought into their store for two reasons.... possible shootings, and handling that firearm inside a store say for example to fit it to a holster.

RustyShackelford
August 15, 2014, 02:46 PM
Remember; it only takes one :uhoh: ....
The recent ND in central PA with a small semi auto pistol at a gun show was the "first time it ever happened".

All it takes is one yo-yo to drink too much and it's good night Sally. :rolleyes:

If you ever did security or police work and had to be sober/clear headed around a bunch of intoxicated, angry or belligerent patrons/customers/guests you know what I'm talking about.
Adding weapons or firearms to the mix isn't smart or practical.

Neo-Luddite
August 15, 2014, 03:04 PM
First they let the beef jerky and hot sauce vendors have a table, now the booze pedlars will have a go...it's gun show mission creep I tellz ya!

Seriously, I don't see this an issue. Hard core drinkers (speaking from experience) will be boozing it up with or without permitted sales. Even the shows nearby to us in Iowa sometimes sell beer/wine. Gun shows are as much about recreation and weekend fun as about finding deals, so to my mind the more hospitable and convivial the event the better.

Sam1911
August 15, 2014, 03:10 PM
All it takes is one yo-yo to drink too much and it's good night Sally.

I read a lot of varied stuff. Some of the things I really enjoy reading are accounts of exploration and contact between cultures throughout history. Sometimes we sound very reminiscent of the kind of disconnect that has existed between peoples almost always, almost everywhere. To wit: we hear of how others live, the social conventions they've invented , the habits and values they use to order their lives and we instantly make the ironclad distinction between "us" and "them" about how "they" are ignorant, naive, reckless, or just fooling themselves, because "we" know that they way they do things is inherently bad, wrong, immoral, dangerous, and probably evil. The fact that another group of people has been getting along very well for millennia doing this thing that we know is dangerous and untenable doesn't make much of a dent in our more enlightened consciousness. (Meanwhile, "they" are thinking the same things about "us.")

These disconnects are expected when European Christian Conquistadores come to spread the good news of the gospel to whomever is left alive when they're done civilizing the local population. But the really ironic thing is that the very same underlying attitudes and blindnesses happens between various parts of our own micro-culture of gun nuts here in 2014 USA.

It isn't just with the guns and alcohol thing, but that's a good example.

"You can't go around letting people XYZ. That's crazy, stupid, and dangerous!"
"Oh? That's how we do it here. Seems ok."
"Oh yeah, you think so but there's no way! Deaths will happen, antis will decend on you, they'll take away your guns, locusts, plague..."
"Uh, you know, it's been this way here for decades. Maybe forever. Don't see these problems you're worried about."
"You just WAIT! It only takaes ONE and BOOM! You'll be toast!"
"I don't know, we've had problems and things get sorted out. No big drama. Folks pretty much do ok here like this."
"Oh, you'll see! Wrong, wrong, wrong!"

And so on.

No matter how many times someone says, "we do this here, always have, no worries or problems, don't stress over it," a few will reply about how it just can't be so.

I don't know if folks assume that other people are better than they are and must have more self-control? That's what it seems like. "Oh, fine for YOU, but I and my neighbors here in my state can't be given that kind of freedom, that would be bad!"

---

You can substitute guns-n-alcohol, open carry laws, requiring permits to carry, required classes to get a permit to carry, baiting for game, semi-autos for hunting, crossbows during archery season, silencers for hunting, and if you take this outside of the relatively unanimous micro-culture of THR, nearly everything else about guns/shooting/laws.

lxd55
August 16, 2014, 12:29 AM
I never said "everyone" would get drunk; but offering alcohol at any venue and pretending people aren't going to get hammered is moronic.

My point was simply, just because some people break the rules doesn't mean we change the rules to make it okay.

I think that should have been a fairly elementary deduction. I guess you missed it. Your use of the word logic was cute, by the way. ;)
only in the way you use your signature line.
I didn't say you or others would drink, I mean only,
by the way you present that point of view must of us should do nothing.

Wanderling
August 16, 2014, 01:31 PM
Alcohol and guns in a public place DO NOT MIX WELL.

Just because most adults can manage to down a few beers without accidentally shooting someone doesn't make it a smart idea. And the older I grow, the less sure I am even of that "most" part.

Just my $.02

bluetopper
August 17, 2014, 01:05 AM
When did it become illegal to sell beer at a gun show? Was it legal in the 1940's, 50's or 60's. Was it a problem then?

wally
August 17, 2014, 12:28 PM
This thread has gone totally off the rails. Its a very Texas specific issue, and based on the TSRA "alert" Emails I've received the concern is that this is a back door way to stop guns shows using large publicly funded venues like the convention centers by making them unattractive for guns shows if serving alcohol there eliminated ammo sales and firearms transfers.

That it is it. Its been illeagal to carry guns where alcohol is served, sold, or consumed as long as I've been here. This has of course not stopped a single liquor or convenience store armed robbery. With the CHL law we have an exception for CHL holders as long as the place gets less than 51% of its revenue from alcohol sales, but the 51% signs must be posted.

The convention centers are generally PC 30.06 posted banning all concealed carry, very few business are posted.

On An Island
August 17, 2014, 01:04 PM
Getting back to the original question, it's a BAD idea. Firearms and alcohol don't mix well.

buck460XVR
August 17, 2014, 01:18 PM
No problem.....

Why not?

I too agree. The "Bubba" that thinks they need to attend the gun show drunk, will have a six pack in the truck out in the parking lot anyway. If the beer is sold by a non-profit organization for a money maker, so be it. This reminds me of the local annual "ABATE" motorcycle swap meet. Their major fund raiser for the event is the beer truck, yet every year after it closes and someone gets pulled over for DWI, it's ABATE's fault for selling them the beer. :rolleyes:

If you can't drink responsibly and enjoy a gun show, you are not responsible enough to own a gun....period.

Nicky Santoro
August 17, 2014, 01:48 PM
I have no problem with it. The snack bar at a show I used to attend served beer. A cold one before leaving was a nice finish to a fun afternoon.

RustyShackelford
August 17, 2014, 03:15 PM
I don't agree with post 87.
It's not unfair, unethical or impractical to question something like selling alcoholic beverages at gun shows.
:rolleyes:
It's not a insult, slur or patronizing to ask gun owners/vendors/attendees to not have drugs/alcohol/open flames-smoking/etc around guns, ammunition and/or reloading components. :eek:

In the early 2000s, I lived & worked in a low end apt complex in a medium size city. One sunny day, a young woman asked to see a unit & said she needed a new apartment. While showing the unit, she explained to me that she had to move because her 2 year old child was playing with some items on a hot stove and the apartment burned down. :eek:
I relayed this information to the property owner/manager who promptly refused to let the mother & kids get a apartment.
When asked why she couldn't live there, the manager explained it to the woman. Her reply was "it's not my fault it was the two year old who started the kitchen fire".
A gun show attendee or vendor shouldn't be on edge or feel a patron might get intoxicated then start trouble or have a ND.

If you had a belligerent drunk attacked you at a gun show or were shot by a patron looking at a new firearm, would you be calm & relaxed? Would you say; "hey, that's okay, these things happen" :rolleyes:.
It's not about "social norms" or "being enlightened". To mix guns with alcoholic beverage sales is dumb. No wine, no beer, no ciders, no mixed drinks, nothing!

Rusty

Sam1911
August 17, 2014, 05:42 PM
I don't agree with post 87.I didn't presume that you would.

It's not unfair, unethical or impractical to question something like selling alcoholic beverages at gun shows.I did not say that it was any of those things. Just predictably blinkered by preconceptions about how things must be, based on one's perspective, limited to only one way of seeing them. There's nothing unethical or unfair about that. Impractical? Who's to say? It merely shows that we enter into all such assessments without anything like a level field of view, unencumbered by theories and assumptions, however overstated or irrationally weighted they may be.

It's not a insult, slur or patronizing to ask gun owners/vendors/attendees to not have drugs/alcohol/open flames-smoking/etc around guns, ammunition and/or reloading components.Whaa? Insult? Slur? Patronizing? What are you talking about?

(And you're really concerned about smoking around guns, ammo, and reloading components? Wow. That's, like, a real thing?)

Ok. Sounds like you're used to working with certain sets of rules in public places and you've internalized them into "truths". Things that must be real because you've become invested in enforcing them yourself, and you wouldn't enforce a rule that isn't right. A few of those may even be commonly held truisms. But my point here is merely that the restrictions and limitations we are used to and have come to expect become a kind of knee-jerk security blanket that we don't question. Whether or not the dangers those restrictions are placed on us really protect us from the sorts of realistic problems that those placing the restrictions claim they will. Eventually we find those rules become comfortable, familiar, and let us feel warm and safe because...well, there are rules!

"Hey, I'm concerned about the risk of X. Well, looky here, there's a rule about X. Guess I'm safe then." :D

...2 year old child was playing with some items on a hot stove ...That's an interesting story. Did it illuminate something about this discussion?

A gun show attendee or vendor shouldn't be on edge or feel a patron might get intoxicated then start trouble or have a ND.Ahhh, feel... Yes. Because this is a perception of doing something about a theoretical problem. As many others said, anyone who would be likely to buy enough $5 Coors Lights at the concession stand to become dangerous will have loaded up on $1 a piece Coors Lights in the parking lot (or at home) before entering. Is there a breathalyzer station at your gun show doors? People buying so many drinks AT a gun show that they become reckless is simply a non-issue.

But, we have nice rules that say they protect us from this non-issue, and we like them. They make us feel safe. Even though they can't do a thing about the -- still seemingly rare -- more likely problem of actual DRUNKS pre-loading before entering.

If you had a belligerent drunk attacked you at a gun show or were shot by a patron looking at a new firearm, would you be calm & relaxed? Would you say; "hey, that's okay, these things happen" .Hey, wait! I thought we had RULES? Like rules against attacking someone or rules against shooting someone? If those rules don't protect me, how do rules against beer sales protect me? ;) If you want to play the rules card, you've got to recognize that there are laws with MUCH heavier penalties at work here. If those malum in se laws don't offer me safety, a pissant malum prohibidum rule against alcohol at a venue won't either.

It's not about "social norms" or "being enlightened". To mix guns with alcoholic beverage sales is dumb.
Except that, as lots of THR members have here testified, it isn't an actual problem in the many places where such rules do not exist. So, you can indulge in your own fear, and you can take comfort in the cozy rules you have there to protect from those fears. But that doesn't make your opinion "right."

No wine, no beer, no ciders, no mixed drinks, nothing!Quoth the white missionary to the Native American or African Aboriginal. Your ways are bad, you should adopt my ways. That usually works out well. ;)

Sam1911
August 17, 2014, 05:58 PM
And, for those who feel that a rule about beer sales somehow helps protect ANYONE?

Let me introduce you to the Freedom Flask (http://freedomflask.com/)!

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=201725&stc=1&d=1408309118

oneounceload
August 17, 2014, 06:19 PM
I'm waiting foe an amigo to pick me up, and we are going to the Big Reno Gunshow, which is held three times a year.

For YEARS, there have been booze sales inside this Show, including hard liquor, at several bars (which open when the doors do, at 0900). One can even carry his drink along with him as he enjoys the Show.

It's also a bit humorous to see folks carrying rifles and shotguns through the lobbies, restaurants, and other places all through the Grand Sierra Resort. I often wonder about the reactions of people just off the airplane from Boston or New York....

I have never seen a problem with anyone drinking to excess in all the years I've attended this Show. Nor have there been examples of booze-related infractions related to the firearms themselves, at least to my knowledge.

Of course, this is Nevada, where it seems we do things differently than do a lot of other places.

Contrary to SOME outside opinions, it's not really Sodom-in-the-desert. It's just a place where restrictions are much less onerous than in many States AS LONG AS ONE BEHAVES HIMSELF.

As someone who used to go to those when it was the MGM and called The Shotgun News Gun Show, I agree - have NEVER seen someone so intoxicated ir even just really buzzed. Most folks are too busy looking around and while they may walk around with a beer, it isn't any big deal; wish some folks would get over that whole aspect

DeepSouth
August 17, 2014, 06:32 PM
If you had a belligerent drunk attacked you at a gun show or were shot by a patron looking at a new firearm, would you be calm & relaxed? Would you say; "hey, that's okay, these things happen" .

Nope I'd ask the authorities why he had not been removed or arrested for public intoxication....... Like what would happen in real life. That's what so many seem to be missing. :rolleyes:
No one is advocating getting drunk and handling guns at all...... Unless I missed it somewhere.

Bruno2
August 17, 2014, 09:34 PM
I dont see a problem with it. I have been to a ton of them where beer is sold. The worst thing that could happen is that someone gets impaired and spends too much money.

Sam1911
August 18, 2014, 12:48 AM
wish some folks would get over that whole aspect

For all of our vaunted love of freedom, we really only love the freedoms we're used to. When someone else has MORE freedom than we do it makes us a little bit angry and sometimes we react by arguing that they shouldn't have so much liberty as all that.

In a world we routinely decry as being a nerfed, padded, and safety-netted charade of liberty and mockery of personal freedom and the attendant responsibilities that go with it, some of us here will argue (without apparent self-aware irony) for yet more restrictions on everyday life so that they may have a veil of safety to cling to.

I don't recall ever having had a beer while attending a gun show. I'm not sure I would. Most of the venues that serve alcohol tend to serve the worst mass-market crud suds and it isn't worth the strain on my tactical pants button to down that stuff. But I surely cannot imagine publicly arguing in favor of a law that further restricts my right to do so if I choose.

Are we so devolved from a freedom-loving people as all that? Do we ASK for the chains? Yeah, it isn't exactly a GUN right, precisely, so maybe we should bow to take the halter willingly. Hey, I know, maybe we can come up with a licensing plan, so we can apply to the government for a permit to drink a beer near a gun? Maybe just one a month, though. For the children.

dragon813gt
August 18, 2014, 07:26 AM
Is this the first time you realized how hypocritical firearm owners are? Everything is fine and dandy until it conflicts w/ their point of view. Then theirs is the only correct one. It's pathetic in my eyes. People are to short sighted, or straight up to self obsessed, to see the whole picture. What ever happened to adults making decisions for themselves?

HexHead
August 18, 2014, 08:29 AM
What's the big deal? Unless the law has changed in the last few years, you are allowed to drink while carrying in TX as long as you remain under the legal limit. When I was in TX in 2011, I went to dinner with some TX resident friends, we were all carrying and had a beer with our dinner. It was a nice change from my home state.

DeepSouth
September 25, 2014, 01:37 PM
STIN, Texas — After hundreds of negative responses, Texas officials appear to be backing off a plan to allow alcohol to be sold at some gun shows, which would have come with strict conditions.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-backs-off-idea-booze-sales-gun-shows-25632570

On my phone so th link may be a Mobil link.

Deltaboy
September 25, 2014, 11:04 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/texas-backs-off-idea-booze-sales-gun-shows-25632570

On my phone so th link may be a Mobil link.
Yes I called and emailed them No Way. Glad we are keeping this door closed and locked.

Sam1911
September 25, 2014, 11:14 PM
LOL. Yup. Keep that alcohol out of those ... NOT-a-gun-show shows.

Harry1969
September 26, 2014, 02:49 PM
I don't see a problem

DeepSouth
September 26, 2014, 03:11 PM
You should read the proposed changes.

EDIT:
Well you can't the link doesn't worn now. Here's a summary from post #41

This story is being wildly misreported. The proposed rule change has zero to do with what is commonly called a "gun show".

"The proposed change, which was announced Friday and is open to public comments for 30 days, would allow locations that are owned or leased by government or nonprofit organizations, and which only show or display guns “occasionally,” to to sell alcohol during those events as long as they meet three conditions: There can be no live ammunition in the facility; all guns must be “disabled and not readily convertible for use,” and no guns sold can be delivered to buyers on the premises.

The proposed rule would also allow alcohol sales at historical reenactments that involve firearms, as long as the firearms are historically accurate and kept unloaded or loaded with blanks."

This would effect something like the Hunters Extravaganza held in Fort Worth or other similar trade shows that aren't actually gun shows but may contain firearms for other purposes than sale.

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/08/...hol-gun-shows/

Warp
September 26, 2014, 06:00 PM
Of course it's a bad idea.

That's why it's illegal to have a parking lot at a bar, or at a restaurant that serves alcohol, and why it is, like, way illegal to drive to or from a bar.

Oh, wait...

slumlord44
September 27, 2014, 11:55 PM
Different venues in Illinois and Missouri sell alcohol. Never been a problem. I never drink there and hardly ever see anyone drinking, but some do. It is just never been an issue.

JRH6856
September 28, 2014, 12:23 AM
One thing the proposal would effectively do is prevent open carry at these events. So it may be a reaction to the activities of OCT. Interestingly, both OCT and MDA have objected to it. Politics makes strange bedfellows.

GoWolfpack
September 29, 2014, 07:19 AM
Ok. Sounds like you're used to working with certain sets of rules in public places and you've internalized them into "truths". Things that must be real because you've become invested in enforcing them yourself, and you wouldn't enforce a rule that isn't right. A few of those may even be commonly held truisms. But my point here is merely that the restrictions and limitations we are used to and have come to expect become a kind of knee-jerk security blanket that we don't question. Whether or not the dangers those restrictions are placed on us really protect us from the sorts of realistic problems that those placing the restrictions claim they will. Eventually we find those rules become comfortable, familiar, and let us feel warm and safe because...well, there are rules!




I'm going to have to ask you to stop using good sense. It's making others nervous.

dvdcrr
September 29, 2014, 12:37 PM
I will tell you and maybe you already know of a culture divide in this country. There are a lot of upstanding rural ( I mean born on and working the land) folks that have hunted and shot where alcohol was just a part of the activity. Seen it very much in my life.
Can I see it working? With a certain crowd yes.

Sam1911
September 29, 2014, 02:26 PM
I will tell you and maybe you already know of a culture divide in this country. There are a lot of upstanding rural ( I mean born on and working the land) folks that have hunted and shot where alcohol was just a part of the activity. Seen it very much in my life.
Can I see it working? With a certain crowd yes.
But how about at a venue where no guns are being fired, or sold, or even really involved as more than visual props?

Because that's what we're actually discussing here...

Delford
September 29, 2014, 07:03 PM
Sam1911, You are a moderator in every sense of the word :-) If posters haven't read the OP and post #41 your attempt at reasoning with them may be like spitting in the wind.

I grew up in a holiness background and not until after attending a Lutheran church (as I have for 40 years now) did I realize you could drink and not go to hell. I may have 1 glass of wine a year but don't begrudge those who drink more. I hope they maintain self discipline. I serve communion and we serve grape juice to members who had issues with alcohol but wine to everyone else. It's all good. Alcohol can be a problem for some at church or a gun show. Live in the light you have.

Your comments on our freedoms are right on. Keep up the good work.

Hurryin' Hoosier
September 29, 2014, 10:14 PM
Texas proposes alcohol sales at some gun shows

Surprised no one has reported this yet. Texas is considering allowing alcohol sales at gun shows. What is your opinion?

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/26236762/texas-proposes-alcohol-sales-at-some-gun-shows

"AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A Texas agency wants to allow alcohol sales at gun shows that meet certain requirements, including not allowing live ammunition."
.
Getting customers blind drunk might help improve Glock sales.

medalguy
September 30, 2014, 10:38 PM
Did most of you even read the specifics of this proposed regulation? Jeeeez!! What a bunch of nonsense!

ExTank
October 2, 2014, 03:16 PM
One of our local gun shows has a concession stand with a 3.2% light beer on tap. Has had it for 6+ years.

The world has, so far, continued to spin on unconcerened.

ETA: I've had a beer with my brisket basket (real good brisket for a basic concession stand!) for lunch while attending said gun show. Immediately handled firearms afterwards. No one harmed, killed, threatened, endangered, or even vaguely annoyed in the process.

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