Apex installation on M&P pistol: what tools?


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breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 12:26 PM
Im going to be installing the Apex Forward Set Sear and Trigger in an M&P Fullsize. I ordered their armorers block as well. Aside from basic hand tools what small detail oriented tools should I get to do this installation?

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kcofohio
August 15, 2014, 12:59 PM
IIRC, an 1/8" or 5/32" punch. A roll of 1 1/2" wide masking tape (something to give a relief clearance when driving pins out). A small brass or nylon faced hammer. Those dental pick sets with the hooks could be helpful.

The trickiest part for me was when using the slave pin for the trigger spring. When driving the trigger pin in, the slave pin needs slight back pressure, or there becomes a groove between pins and the spring tends to drop off.

It did take care of the gritty feel in the trigger.

breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 01:07 PM
Thanks! Ill pick up a nylon hammer and some small picks. Maybe some lithium grease to hold pins where I need them?

1KPerDay
August 15, 2014, 01:45 PM
Yeh, the picks came in handy when locating the trigger spring. The biggest PITA for me was reinstallation of the trigger pin through the spring. Slave pin they sent was plastic and was worthless. That really is the only tricky bit of the install. I had to shave the frame a couple thousandths in the trigger slot to allow proper reset. You may not.

boring videos in case you're interested.

reset problem
http://youtu.be/e45M2bGjfNs

full install
http://youtu.be/t3CJSvhpZqY

Quick before/after trigger comparison for those who can't abide the boring full version
http://youtu.be/9PWeJa9WMWQ

breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the videos. I've watched the ones from Apex. Trying to add to the list if things dont go smoothly.

1KPerDay
August 15, 2014, 02:02 PM
The one caveat I'd point out from the factory vid is in theirs it appears they can remove the rear block (for adjusting the "candycane"... which mine did not require) while leaving the front pin in place. This would have been vastly easier but mine simply would not work that way. In order to get the trigger bar in its recess I had to remove both the rear/sear block AND the trigger pin/assembly in order to get it all lined up and reinserted (both front and rear assemblies sort of inserted together while keeping it lined up, and then reinstall the trigger pin AGAIN, which is the frustrating part of the install. Hopefully you'll only have to do that pin once.

Once you get it apart you can likely see what has to happen but let us know if you have any other questions.

BTW grease IS a good idea for holding the internal safety lock hole filler in place against the frame (assuming you don't have a lock).

breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 02:08 PM
Any ideas on how to keep from losing pins and springs? I know this thing is full of tiny springs. I hate losing them then having to put the whole project on hold while waiting on new pins to arrive.

1KPerDay
August 15, 2014, 02:35 PM
pay attention? work in a clean area with white background? use a magnet? Not much chance of losing them as long as you put them where they go and don't leave them lying around. If you're really worried you can install springs inside plastic bag or something... the striker block spring is the only one I can think of that has the potential of getting away from you. But you pretty much just open the gun up, remove the OEM guts, drop in the new bits and cover them up with the appropriate parts (rear sight in your case). Follow the directions and you'll be fine.

breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 02:44 PM
Ive already replaced the sear. I agree on working in ideal conditions but life isn't always ideal. I tore apart a Ruger LC9 outside on a card table at night. Wont do that again!

Kp321
August 15, 2014, 04:44 PM
Some of the springs can be installed more than one direction or their correct position is not readily apparent when going back together. Take close up pictures with your phone for future reference as you take it apart.

breakingcontact
August 15, 2014, 04:49 PM
Some of the springs can be installed more than one direction or their correct position is not readily apparent when going back together. Take close up pictures with your phone for future reference as you take it apart.
Excellent suggestion. I did that working on my car and it made my life easier.

kcofohio
August 15, 2014, 08:40 PM
I agree about taking photos. Every time I take something apart I'm not familiar with, the photos help. And take different angle shots. :)

rcmodel
August 15, 2014, 08:47 PM
I agree on working in ideal conditions but life isn't always idealA big old white terry-cloth bath-towel spread out on the kitchen table is 'pretty' ideal.

Hard to loose anything on a white towel over a clean kitchen floor.

rc

dkindig
August 17, 2014, 11:02 AM
Any ideas on how to keep from losing pins and springs? I know this thing is full of tiny springs. I hate losing them then having to put the whole project on hold while waiting on new pins to arrive.
One thing I do for keeping things organized during disassembly is use a muffin pan to put parts in. It keeps them grouped by assembly and much less likely to wander all over the work surface, floor, etc.

1KPerDay
August 17, 2014, 11:16 AM
egg carton works too

breakingcontact
August 17, 2014, 11:55 AM
egg carton works too
Another great idea. Beats my shoe boxes

rsrocket1
August 18, 2014, 12:07 AM
You can also get a short piece of 2" x4" wood, drill a 1/4" hole in it and use it as an armourer's block. Set the frame on it with the pin over the hole so you can easily drive it out and down the hole where it will not get lost. A vice with plastic sides like a Panavice is handy to push the roll pins mostly back in place without damaging them.

breakingcontact
August 20, 2014, 01:22 AM
Got it done tonight. Trickiest part was getting the connector connected to the trigger. Other than that it went reasonably well. Thanks for the advice here. I ordered and used a Fisher sight pusher. It was alright. Dont regret buying it but with all of the leather and plastic shimming I had to do and the slide still moved around...im not overly impressed with it.

The Apex forward set sear and trigger is totally sick. Hardly any uptake or over travel.

1KPerDay
August 20, 2014, 01:35 PM
Cool. You'll need to get used to the different trigger. Feels like a completely new gun.

breakingcontact
August 20, 2014, 01:40 PM
Cool. You'll need to get used to the different trigger. Feels like a completely new gun.
I dry fired a bunch last night. I like it a lot. See how it shoots this weekend. My next question is...do I want the RAM as well? Im not wild about doing this much work on my Shield which I carry. Ive replaced the sear. I might just leave it alone. Afterall it won't be the same as the FSS setup anyways.

1KPerDay
August 20, 2014, 01:56 PM
If you're a "reset shooter" you'll like the RAM. I could take it or leave it. The trigger moves so little that I'm not sure it's necessary. I installed the RAM with the trigger and haven't tried the new trigger without it so take that with a grain of salt. The RAM is an easy drop-in.

breakingcontact
August 20, 2014, 01:58 PM
If you're a "reset shooter" you'll like the RAM. I could take it or leave it. The trigger moves so little that I'm not sure it's necessary. I installed the RAM with the trigger and haven't tried the new trigger without it so take that with a grain of salt. The RAM is an easy drop-in.
Friend of mine who is a much better shooter than I told me that trying to shoot to the reset actually slows some people down. Ive also seen reset shooters get "trigger freeze".

What kind of splits are you able to shoot with good accuracy with the FSS?

With the stock M&P i can do 0.25 consistent splits with good accuracy at 7 yards. If I dip down into the teens my groups open up too much.

1KPerDay
August 20, 2014, 04:26 PM
No idea... I don't have a shot timer yet. However it FEELS like my transitions from target to target are a bit faster. I do know I have to move my trigger finger way less now.

I used to get caught up in all the banter about "good reset" etc. until I discovered that I shoot like Jerry Miculek does; he basically shoots everything like a revolver, and comes off the trigger almost all the way every shot (in most non-revolver guns he comes all the way off and back on). He can certainly go fast enough. So as long as the reset is short enough, I don't really worry about it anymore.

The stock CORE M&P trigger was the one that helped me learn that I haven't really been shooting to reset. Since it basically has no discernable reset whatsoever and I still shot it well. :)

I do notice that I'm moving my finger much more than necessary since installing the FSS kit. Trying to decide whether I should try to modify my style or not. Probably won't make any difference.

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