Type of musket?


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Native shooter
August 26, 2014, 12:50 AM
I was watching a tv show called into the west and in the secind episode a group of lakota trade four horses for eight guns. The musket is a smaller than normal one, i have some pictures of it that i'll post

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Native shooter
August 26, 2014, 01:01 AM
here's a picture of the musket that a young lakota boy has, it's the only image of the whole rifle.

wojownik
August 26, 2014, 01:02 AM
A flintlock ships or cavalry musketoon (carbine). I'm thinking a .69 cal 1777 French Cavalry Carbine - when the first carbine is taken out of the crate, you can see the underside and obverse - the brass fittings seem to match, as and lefthand side (obverse of the lockplate) seems to show a bar and ring that also matches the 1777 carbine.

I'm not sure why the filmmakers went with that particular musket, but its fairly available as a repro.

Gee, I've wanted to use the word musketoon in a post all week :) Mission accomplished, and one of my favorite sounding words. Musketoon.

The episode is online - scene at around 18:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCnayRFj-2M

Native shooter
August 26, 2014, 01:06 AM
so a calvary carbine?

toiville2feathers
August 26, 2014, 01:12 AM
I don't believe that it depicts a genuine historical fact. Its more a film companies prop that is photogenic with the young boy actor.

Native shooter
August 26, 2014, 01:21 AM
well the young boy might know more about loading a musket than the older ones

wojownik
August 26, 2014, 01:28 AM
What's the timeline of the series again? Episode 1 starts in the 1820s, is ep 2 a few years after that? 1840s?

Yes, these are cavalry carbines (musketoons). The directors probably had to figure out what could be used that was pre-civil war / Mex War era. Picking the 1777 musketoon is a pretty good stand-in, in lieu of something more accurate or period correct. At least they didn't break open a crate of Spencer carbines ...

Field Tester
August 26, 2014, 01:30 AM
A flintlock ships or cavalry musketoon (carbine). I'm thinking a .69 cal 1777 French Cavalry Carbine - when the first carbine is taken out of the crate, you can see the underside and obverse - the brass fittings seem to match, as and lefthand side (obverse of the lockplate) seems to show a bar and ring that also matches the 1777 carbine.

I'm not sure why the filmmakers went with that particular musket, but its fairly available as a repro.

Gee, I've wanted to use the word musketoon in a post all week :) Mission accomplished, and one of my favorite sounding words. Musketoon.

The episode is online - scene at around 18:58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCnayRFj-2M
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonaesthetics

Cellar Door :)

Berkley
August 26, 2014, 08:57 AM
Shedding a little light on the subject:http://i60.tinypic.com/2u6ofvp.jpg
Saddle ring:
http://i58.tinypic.com/259d1ci.jpg

4v50 Gary
August 26, 2014, 09:31 AM
It's English, not French. I'm thinking it's an Eliot Carbine for Light Dragoons (c. 1800). Check if there's a swell at the ramrod throat. Note the short sling bar.

wojownik
August 26, 2014, 10:07 AM
Ship's carbine then?

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/MSC_left.JPG
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/images/MSC_right.JPG

Loyalist Dave
August 26, 2014, 11:29 AM
No those are British 1796 Heavy Dragoon Carbines distributed by Loyalist Arms LLC, Canada (http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1796hdcarb.html). Made from parts imported from India. They should've been "used" a bit more than as seen in the movie, as they would've been about two decade old when the move was set.

LD

4v50 Gary
August 26, 2014, 05:20 PM
What Loyalist Arms calls a Heavy Dragoon carbine is more akin to the Eliot. It even has the swell in the rammer.

Diogenes415
August 27, 2014, 02:05 PM
... They should've been "used" a bit more than as seen in the movie, as they would've been about two decade old when the move was set.

Apparently cosmoline soaking predates Combloc milsurps.

Loyalist Dave
August 28, 2014, 09:58 AM
??

No, but they shouldn't be chrome bright steel, and shiny brass bits.

They probably rented them from the company so had to keep them in "as new" condition.

LD

4v50 Gary
August 29, 2014, 10:21 AM
Loyalist Dave - Except for the French & Indian War, I thought the poor redcoat had to polish the metal bits on his musket.

Loyalist Dave
August 30, 2014, 11:31 AM
The privates certainly did... But you get a dull gray not a chrome... And the guns in the movie have been schlepped across the country or worse, shipped part way by sea... so they should be a bit rusty....and if the traders tried to make them look better just before delivery.... They would've simply rubbed off the rust with leather and some oil so the muskets would've been a bit brown. In the movie they look like they just got dropped off by UPS: Same Day Air. :D

4v50 Gary
August 30, 2014, 05:10 PM
Thanks. The power of the buffing wheel is stronger than the hands of a poor private!

Loyalist Dave
September 5, 2014, 09:24 AM
Depending on the media used...:D... you have to remember they used finely powdered "brick dust", and the bricks of the flintlock era were not nearly as hard as they are today, and...

... you had to keep the privates busy doing something...otherwise they get bored and get into trouble...they are always looking for booze, women, or a good meal, and the occasional valuable... so....guard your chickens, your pigs, and your cows, lock up your daughters and your wives, bar your cider cellars, and bury your coins and your silver! :what:

OH and if you get a "Yellow Scrubbie" pad, from the hardware store where they sell stuff to clean ceramic stove tops... it's less agressive than the green scrubbie from the supermarket.... that will give you the same finish when used with a drop or two of olive oil on the steel, with much less mess than real brick dust. (Maybe you can find those yellow scrubbies in the supermarket as ceramic stovetops have caught on???)



LD

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