CLONE WARS!! (Beretta clones) Amercian Tactical C92 vs. Chiappa/Girsan M9...


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TSH77769
August 30, 2014, 04:58 PM
Can anyone tell me the differences between these two. Aside from the finger grooves, and slide serrations obviously.

I want to buy one just so that I have a gun that uses unmodified Beretta mags. Question is, which one of these two. I don't have anything against finger grooves, IF they fit my hands, if they DONT, they SUCK.

That alone is making me lean towards the American Tactical C92.

Can someone tell me about any parts or quality difference.

ALSO IMPORTANT: Can anyone confirm whether or not they can be used with a regular Beretta 92fs holster? The trigger guard shape seems slightly different.

My plan is to buy one of these and have the G conversion done by Wilson or allegeheny. Then I would get something akin to a 92G Centurion an have a gun that can use mil-surp mags and STILL cost less than a regular Beretta.

Thanks for the help.

tsh77769

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1911 guy
August 31, 2014, 06:59 AM
I have no experience with the American Tactical and limited experience with Chiappa. But my experience with Chiappa is that they have spent a good deal of effort on their unique revolver, I believe it's called the Rhino. Everything else is a bottom of the barrel specimen.

Hopefully, someone will chime in and tell you that I've just seen a bad sampling and they're normally good to go. But based on the few I've handled, I doubt it.

wally
August 31, 2014, 02:01 PM
Hopefully, someone will chime in and tell you that I've just seen a bad sampling and they're normally good to go

Nope! I'd chime in to say my Chiappa 1911-22 was my worst gun purchase ever -- even my Jennings will go more rounds between failures. My experience with their customer warranty support couldn't be worse -- I had to pay to ship it back and not only did they not fix it, it came back three months latter functioning even worse. Further Emails were never answered.


So if you really have to have one, I'd suggest giving the American Tactical a try instead.

Shipwreck
August 31, 2014, 05:15 PM
Yes, I have seen many negative complaints about the Chiappa 92 clones. If you are dying for something like that, get the Beretta made 22 uppers that they release periodically.

Onward Allusion
August 31, 2014, 05:32 PM
I think there may be a bit of confusion.

One the 92 clone - ATI is the distributor. Girsan is the manufacturer.

With regard to Chiappa, they make the 1911-22 and it's Zamak. ATI and MKS Supply distributes that one.

TSH77769
August 31, 2014, 10:13 PM
Chiappa is more of an import label than a manufacturer. Most of their products (if not all are actually made by someone else).

In this case I'm specifically interested in a comparison of the C92 imported by American Tactical vs. the M9 imported by Chiappa (mfg by Girsan).

If anyone has any info about them it would be most welcomed.

tsh77769

Schwing
August 31, 2014, 11:26 PM
I have no experience with American Tactical but, personally, would not buy anything from Chiappa. While the Rhino is interesting, that is where its appeal ends for me. I have looked at several Chiappas over the years but have never held one that wasn't sloppy. The actions are sloppy, the fit and finish is horrible and they are just not impressive.

I also would encourage you not to rule out just purchasing the real deal. I know you will pay a little more but the 92 is a great firearm. It has its detractors but as someone who has owned one for decades now I can tell you it is well worth it.

TSH77769
August 31, 2014, 11:44 PM
A Beretta 92FS Centurion, if you can find one will cost over DOUBLE. That is more than a little bit.

tsh77769

Onward Allusion
September 1, 2014, 02:05 AM
TSH77769
Chiappa is more of an import label than a manufacturer. Most of their products (if not all are actually made by someone else).

In this case I'm specifically interested in a comparison of the C92 imported by American Tactical vs. the M9 imported by Chiappa (mfg by Girsan).

They are the same gun. ATI first imported the Girsan MKEK a few years back and branded them ATI AT92. The compact was labeled ATI C92. The guns are supposedly mfr'd on old Beretta equipment.

Chiappa now distributes the Girsan MKEK and is branded as the Chiappa Gov't Model M-9 and the Compact M9.

Again, same gun made by Girsan. The info is out there.

A few years ago ATI unloaded the C92. CDNN had them for $299.

arspeukinen
September 1, 2014, 02:41 AM
My Chiappa M9-22 is by far the worst gun I have ever shot, handled, or seen. Or fixed.

arspeukinen
September 1, 2014, 02:43 AM
Get a real 92 for Wilson work. Or buy a Taurus.

TSH77769
September 1, 2014, 02:45 AM
The immediately previous post is really not that helpful.

Back to the subject at hand.

HorseSoldier
September 1, 2014, 04:27 AM
I'm not tracking on the utility of possibly going bargain basement on quality with a pistol design that already has reliability issues if you shoot it a lot.

JTQ
September 3, 2014, 10:06 AM
TSH77769 wrote,
My plan is to buy one of these and have the G conversion done by Wilson or allegeheny.
Have you verified either Wilson or AGW will perform that modification on either of those guns.

TSH77769
September 3, 2014, 07:18 PM
Wilson says they will only work on genuine Beretta's (snobs).

AGW has not written back yet.

tsh77769

Shovelhead
September 3, 2014, 07:31 PM
Wilson says they will only work on genuine Beretta's (snobs).

Perhaps they haven't seen this episode of Mythbusters.
Polishing a Turd (http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/polishing-a-turd-minimyth.htm)

JTQ
September 3, 2014, 07:34 PM
TSH77769 wrote,
Wilson says they will only work on genuine Beretta's (snobs).

AGW has not written back yet.
I'm not surprised, and I don't consider them snobs for their choice. I had seen elsewhere where they won't work on the Taurus PT92 series either, and I suspected they wouldn't work on the two you were considering.

My understanding is Bill Wilson is personally a fan of the Beretta 92. It is his company and his choice what he chooses to work on. More power to him.

I have very little knowledge of what those other guns you are considering cost, but I'd personally pay whatever premium Beretta is asking (call me a snob if you like). Hey, RIA makes a fine budget 1911, but there is long list of custom pistol smith's that won't work on them either.

Onward Allusion
September 3, 2014, 07:57 PM
TSH77769 -

Have you considered the 3rd generation Smiths? A 5906 in decent condition will only set you back $350 and there is a plethora of OEM and Mec Gar magazines out there at very good prices. We're talking $20 for 15 round Mec Gar & $30 to $35 for OEM mags. The 3rd gen Smiths are also extremely reliable.

JTQ
September 3, 2014, 08:33 PM
I wouldn't pick an S&W. I have a 4506. It is a great gun, but support is going away fast. The Beretta family is still in production and will have factory support for a very long time, not to mention a custom place like Wilson that is easy to find.

The OP intends to get his Beretta or clone, to G configuration, which is decock only with no safety. The S&W's with that feature were truly odd ducks.

If you look hard enough you could probably find an old LE Beretta G model. I don't have a problem with a safety/decocker, though I would prefer the decocker only like the OP, but there is a lot to be said for buying a gun that is still in production. I've often thought about getting a Ruger P90, but once they went out of production I dropped that thought. The factory support is not there and there really isn't a big aftermarket for them either.

NGIB
September 4, 2014, 07:25 AM
I actually prefer the Taurus 92 clones to the Beretta - because of the frame mounted safety. Had a pair of them for years and they are tanks...

Fiv3r
September 4, 2014, 07:41 AM
There was a thread yesterday that Berreta is bringing back the G configuration. Wouldn't that be a more cost effective way to get what the OP wants?

TSH77769
September 7, 2014, 03:35 AM
Yes, Beretta is doing a limited run of G models right now.

They are full size, they are not centruions like the clones are. I'm more about the Centurion part than I am about the G part. But I do want both.

tsh77769

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