[Rob999]

I've got this 910 I just bought and have been breaking it in. approximately 250 rounds so far, good groups and here comes the "BUT"

out of the 250 rounds, hi cap mags, I've had 1 jam duing the first 100 rounds so I cleaned out the gun. Noticed it had a lot of powder residue and was really black at the feedramp as well as the surrounding area.. (Oh yeah, had two light strikes as well)

So I thought it was just new and not cleaned out. Took it home, field stripped it and gave it a good going over.... I also polished the feedramp using 400 and 600 grit parallel to the barrel axis.

Next 150 rounds... three jams, first jam :banghead: feed ramp was black with residue.... boresnake time...
second jam, bore snake again... third jam... boresnake... all due to feedramp being dirty..... again :cuss: :fire: :banghead:

I had heard about smith being jamomatics but put this off as I had heard the third gen pistols were really good and "reliable" after 250 rounds, this does not seem to be the case...

1. have others experienced this and how were you able to improve the reliability of the darn thing? aside from feedramp polishing....

Also, there are two other things I'd like to get opinions on,

2. Due you normally get a lot of powder residue on the feedramp? What would cause this? Poor Ammo powder?
3. Is it possible that after field stripped, the cartrdge could not seat in the chamber properl causing movement when the round was ignited and thereby blowing powderbackwards toward the firing pin, feed ramp and other areas? If so, how is this fixed?

Appreciate all opinions and thanks in advance.

:fire:

[Kahr carrier]

Are you having the Jams with different mags?? or you using the same mag on all these occurences??:confused:

[Rob999]

I was switching between two mags at the time. Not to sure if it was one mag in particular. Next time I'll mark the mags so I observe if its particular to a mag.

But they're all S&W factory mags. Although the new one would not seat properly at first and was the cause of the 1st jam. ( I had two, NIB, and I bought a third for carry.) How would a mag cause a jam?

Regards to all

[bpisler]

One way is weak springs in your mags,a weak spring will not push the next round up fast enought and it will catch on the bottom of the feed ramp.

[M1911]

What ammo are you using?

[Blueduck]

I have two of the third generation S/W's (4006 and 4506). Only problem I've had was with the 4006, same symptoms, fixed immediatly by a new mag spring. Thats the route I'd try first.

If that does not work I'd just call S/W. They'll send you a label to send the gun back via fed-ex for repair.

[Handy]

I don't think I've had a pistol that didn't get residue on the feed ramp. Generally, that carbon/oil muck doesn't affect feeding at all.

Concur with possible mag problem, but there shouldn't be a problem with all three factory mags, so mark them for clarity.

Also, make sure there is nothing caught under your extractor. That is another common feed culprit.

I don't care for Smiths, but they can't be that bad and be such common police guns. If all else fails, send it in.

[cratz2]

It definately sounds like you have an issue there somewhere... My step-father-in-law has carried a 659 every day for about 12 years. He's never cleaned it. Ever! I've cleaned it four or five times. He says it's never jammed and I have no reason to doubt him.

At the same time, it sounds like your feedramp is getting very dirty very quickly. I've put 200 or 300 between cleanings on my Taurus PT99 and CZ75 9mms and have never experienced the sort of dirtiness you seem to be describing. What ammo are you using?

[Pistolsmith]

Replace the recoil spring with a wOLFF + spring. 'Twerked fer me.
Another problem can be the bullet shape. Try some diffeent combinations.

[10-Ring]

My first suggestion is to give gun & mags a GOOD cleaning & lubing. Then, try diff't ammo and then change out the recoil & mags springs.
Good luck figuring it out ;)

[TreeSquid]

Am I the only one who doesn't really see any problem with this? Many people consider 250 rounds to be well within the break-in period for a pistol. I've heard plenty of people say that they'll happily forgive malfunctions up to the 500-round mark. 250 really doesn't seem like a big deal at all. If you put another 200 rounds or so through it and it's STILL messing up on you, then I guess it's panic time :P

[Handy]

For a new gun, with new mags and standard ammo, this seems like a funny problem. After checking for the usual culprits, I would send it back long before I'd start replacing springs or trying 10 different types of ammo.

A combat 9mm should work great almost immediately and shouldn't need any home tinkering. 9mm is an easy feeder, it shouldn't be this difficult.

[Spackler]

My SIG P225 took at least 500 round before it ran well. This was with new mags and Winchester White box ammo. After the 500 round break-in period, it ran flawlessly and has been that way since.

[Rob999]

Thanks.... Stripped, cleaned and Oiled! I shoot in the Philippines and use factory ammo that is made here.... 9x19 ARMSCOR 124 gr, FMJs . They're the cheapest range ammo.... 26 USD / 100 rds. (ok.. not as cheap as in the US I'll try some different ammo brands next time to see if the buildup decreases.)

I was comparing the FMJ rd to some Hornady and HEAT JHP defense rds I have and the two JHPs seated differently with the FMJ. The FMJ rd had more play in the chamber. But looked at the spent casings to see the pin strike and if it was varied over the casings.... but they were centered properly. So i guess thats out

Right, so assuming ammo is not a problem , then time to look at the Mags

All the mags are factory S&W originals. I had 2 NIB and bought a third... but I mixed it up so I can't identify the NIB and the 3rd anymore so I marked them.

Next thing to do is shoot each particulat mag to see if a particular one malfunctions... hopefully, thats the problem and its just a mag spring... otherwise, I'm trading the d**n thing.....

I've got a set of recoil calibration springs from Wolff up to 20 lbs... as its gonna be a chore to send the 910 back to S&W with all these export/import laws, I'll try those as well. Thanks again for all the advise.... hopefully, its because of the mag or just the first 500 rds....

:scrutiny:

[mark mcj]

I have to agree it's not the "blackened" feed ramp. The picture below is a "dirty" feed ramp and this pistol runs fine. This was my own torture test for my Kimber 1911. It sounds like mags or ammo.

[Rob999]

Mark,

After seeing your feedramp, i'm more convinced its either the mags or to light a recoil spring. I'll try identify both at the range later. Thanks to all again for the advice.

Regards :D

[hansolo]

Rob999: Ironically, I recently bought a new 910s (stainless) and, with about 350 rounds through it so far, no malfunctions. I have a CZ 75B(back at the CZ gunsmith)that acted very similar to what you describe. I went the whole route...three different Wolff recoil springs, polished feed ramp/chamber. Extra power magazine springs....it still would FTFeed or FTEject every 50-100 rounds:cuss:

I bought the S&W because several shooters I've talked with had very good reliability with the S&W's. Like my CZ, there is always the exception to the rule. You say shipping would be problematic: S&W stands behind their product really well: I'd give it 2-300 more "break-in" rounds. If it still jams, send it back, if it isn't too big of a deal. I empathize, as my CZ-jams drove me nuts!

Good Luck,

Steve

[arinvolvo]

WOW....what a picture...that is what my Ruger 22 pistol looked like after I shot about 1300 lead rounds through it....I think it took most of the weekend to clean it. ;)

[Blueduck]

I once saw a tour bus full of nuns careen off a slick mountain road. The bus plummeted over three hundred feet before landing on an orphanage bursting into flames. I'm not sure if it was the explosion or the impact that sent the whole mass of debris, nuns, and burning orphans further down the mountain, landing on top of the old folks home. Well the old folks home gave way as well and the whole mass of metal, debris, burning nuns, orphans and old folks landed on the abused puppy shelter at the bottom of the mountain.

That was the most disturbing thing I ever saw...UNTIL mark mcj posted a picture of his feed ramp ;)

[renaissance]

What DID you DO to that Kimber???????
Its that: Lead? Plating, Jacket material, Space Junk.......................

You say a Torture Test........
How many rounds?
What kind of Bullets?

Was it a "Full Sized" Kimber

renman@concentric.net

[mec]

It sounds like a job for S&W Customer Service. They have a way of fixing these things and getting them back to you quick. Most of the Smiths are reliable right out of the box. I'm not sure where Smith gets their magazines but a lot of companies out-source them from magazine rollers who have no integrity. They turn out crummy mags and then take contracts to produce good ones for the big gun companies. The companies set the material specifications and then try to get the suppliers to stick with them.

Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't get slipped a ringer every now and then.

[Kahr carrier]

Was that Kimber a SERIES-1?? 1911s you gotta love them.:D

[George Hill]

I think someone needs to call "Kimber Welfare Service" for abuse and neglect of that poor Kimber! :what:

[Pistolsmith]

Also appropriate might be use of a faster burning powder. If this fails, there is always "burial at sea." Or, less drastic, "Flog it at a gun show."

[BLiTzNicK]

Smith and Wesson has the BEST customer service in the business. They will pay for shipping both ways, and will fix any problems quickly.

[Blueduck]

I shoot in the Philippines... as its gonna be a chore to send the 910 back to S&W with all these export/import laws...

As noted in his second post Rob's overseas. Not sure how much good S/W service will do him there.

[owen]

can you take a picture of the malfunction for us?

Owen

[mark mcj]

The "Kimber Welfare Dept. " that's funny:D
I tried to get a malfuction by running a dirty gun but after 2200 plus rounds I figured it was time to strip it down for a detail cleaning.
The pistol is a Kimber Classic Stainless 70 series. The vast majority of the rounds fired were 200 gr lswc bullets on top of 4.9 grs . of Titegroup. Also had a few 230 fmj round in there too. All of the gunk in there wipes right off. After 15 min. in Ed's Red and
a little work with a brush it looks great.

[Rob999]

Right, 150 rounds again at the range :D

Before firing, took the magazines apart to make sure the springs were seated properly and not crimped when I last took them apart. Then I tried outhe wolf calibration packs and ended up settling on the 16# recoil spring. May go back to the 14 as i seem to have better groups in 14#.

Anyway, Stuck to mags 1 & 2 to check the reliability of these mags as they normally contain my defense load. Long story short, no FTFeed or light strikes this outing while using the same type of ammo. I've not field stripped and cleaned as Mark gave me the idea to see if the feed problems were residue related...

:what:

did have 1 split case though... probably powder overload. but other than that, no issues.

I still need to check Mag #3, w/c I suspect is the faulty mag... but I ran out of range ammo... so I'll do that after I've gotten more ammo.
:p

Thanks for all the tips from from all.... i'll post a couple of range reports once I'm sure this FTF problem is over.

Regards