[aug e. dog]

I remember seeing a thread on this on TFL and was wondering if anyone had a link. If not, I'd like to learn to do this, but when I try, I see two front sight images. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Mike Irwin]

It takes a LOT of practice to be able to do this effectively and rapidly.

That's the only thing I can suggest.

I remember when I first started trying to do this after reading something about it in American Rifleman. I'd get headaches and sick to my stomach the first couple of times I tried it, but my shooting, especially my speed shooting, increased dramatically.

My suggestion is lots of dryfire practice along with trips to the range.

[Flash Hole]

I would also like learn to use two eye's.
I have been shooting for fourty years and,
the eyes are getting old, so two bad eyes would have to be better than one bad eye.

JOHN

[Airwolf]

I'm lucky. I did nearly a year of research before getting my first gun. This was one of the things that I discovered before my first trip to the range so I didn't have to "unlearn" a behavior.

I still find myself shutting one eye from time to time on a "bull’s-eye" type shot, but never on rapid fire/self-defense type shots.

[LeadPumper]

First thing, make sure your dominant eye matches your dominant hand, otherwise you'll get so crosseyed you might miss the paper alltogether!

Then practice lots, and I mean LOTS! Some sights are easier to two eye than others. I find three dots (front dot different color): OK, XPress or combat sights: fine, 1911 style target sights: forget it. YMMV. Try them all.

During dryfire, if you find yourself 'drifting off', just squint the non-dominant eye a little. That should be enough to blur the image and let the dominat eye re-acquire.

Also works well with red dot scopes , handgun scopes, and scout type setups.

With the right equipment and practice, can be very fast and effective.

-LeadPumper

[MonkeyMan]

I started doing this when I took up shooting IDPA. It took a while but once I got the hang of it my scores got a lot better. My only problem is when I have to shoot weak hand I have to remember to close my dominant eye cuz it jes don't work like that for my weak eye. Practice, practice, practice.

[Croyance]

I am right handed, but unfortunately my dominant eye is the left. I spent a lot of time drawing and dryfiringing to get used to sighting with both eyes. Just time and persistance.

[bountyhunter]

Understand, when shooting with both eyes, they have to be focused on the target. If you focus both eyes on the front sight, parallax will give you a double rear sight image which will block the front sight and you will see double target images which are impossible to aim at.

To understand two eye shooting: look across the room at a dot on the wall with both eyes. Point your index finger and slowly bring it up until you are "sighting" along the top of the finger like a gun barrel but keep both eyes focused on the wall spot. You will see two finger images. The one in line with the dot on the wall is being sighted by your dominant eye. It does not matter which eye or hand is dominant, it will still work.

When you sight this way, the gun sights are slightly blurry. You can still aim the gun very accurately, even for bullseye shooting. I've found colored dots (like orange front, white rear) help when using this "indirect" sighting method. Understand, you still aim the gun by looking "through" the sights, the only differenc is they are slightly blurry because you are target focused. You see a second gun image "off line" of the target. Your brain learns to ignore it very quickly.

[ysr_racer]

>>, I'd like to learn to do this, but when I try, I see two front sight images.

Everybody does, if you have 2 eyes and they're next to each other, you see 2 front sights when looking down range. It's called parallax.

If you're right handed and right eye dominant, use the left image.

In other words, you should be able to aim your gun at something with both eyes open, close your left eye and be on target with your right eye.

[10-Ring]

When I was taking instruction to improve my shooting, I was told that God gave me 2 eyes for a reason & to use them. Since then my shooting has become better...plus all the practice since then too!

[Blackhawk]

aug e. dog,

This was extensively discussed on TFL, and there was a LOT of good information. Seems like it was within the last 9 months of 2002.

Did you try searching for it on TFL? The search utility is pretty good -- just click the search button at the top of any page.

[tech]

I have heard smart people make good arguments both ways. Try both do what works for you.

Mike

[Pistolsmith]

When I was teaching my wife to shoot a pistol, I told her to keep both eyes open. Her opthamologist, who is a pistol shooter, sent me a note telling me that almost nobody's eyes focus at the same distance and to let her shoot with one eye closed.
While this limits depth perception due to loss of stereoptic effect, she is an adequate shooter and has never experienced any problems that can be blamed on closing one eye.

[labgrade]

Quick skim, but for anything defensive, I look at the target & if anything, I'll get a flash front sight with my dominate eye. I'd guess more of a "look, point, bang" technique. Main joint of your trigger finger should point "instinctively" at the target by just looking at it (the target).

Certainly plenty good for anything close up - figure <7 yards or so.

Dry firing practice is sometimes just visualising the target (some small spot on a wall) & "intinctively" pointing my finger at it. Invariably, the index finger is all but "right there." Sometimes at home I'll actually use a gun - still there.

Consider this as the same "technique" as you use to throw a ball. No sights, but betcha most can toss a baseball close enough for practical work.

Trying to hit a coke can at 25 yards requires a bit of steadiness & sight work, but that didn't seem to be the question (sorta).

The paralax explanations' good as any. Focus on the front sight w/two eyes & the target should double. Focus on the target, forget the front sight & go "instinctive" & the doubling'll go away.

Interesting & very practical way to shoot defensively.

YMMV.

[bountyhunter]

labgrade is describing a technique called "point and shoot" where you actually don't use the sights to aim the gun. It is limited to very close range and requires a lot of practice to get good.

In the book "Shooting From Within", Plaxco describes a method called "indirect sighting" which is basically looking through the sights and focusing both eyes on the target. This is how to shoot with two eyes. The sights are still there, but they are fuzzy. Once you learn the new (fuzzy) sight picture that corresponds to "gun aligned", you can shoot this way VERY accurately. I used to shoot one bullseye target at 25 yards with the one-eyed squint method (front sight focused) and then shoot the second target using two eyes target-focused. I usually got a couple of points higher with both eyes open.

On advice from a pro, I found a way to actually focus both eyes on the target and still see the sights in sharp focus (through the magic of optics). I have glasses with my standard (far) prescription in the left eye, and an intermediate scrip in my right sighting eye. I use a Meritt sighter (peep hole device) on both eyes. If I adjust the sighting eye just right, I see the target and the sights both clearly with my eyes relaxed (target left eye, sights right eye). It's as if the sight image floats over the target, both images clear. Your brain learns to integrate the two images very easily. When I found out about this, my scores went way up and I usually beat a lot of better shooters because I can see the target so much better than they can when I aim.

[labgrade]

Yeah, bounty, I'd guess it's a "point 'n shoot" thing, but I'd disagree that it takes a "lot of pratice to get good." I dunno, & maybe I'm just lucky, but I shot ISPC that way & while never doing it enough to walk up the line much (mostly due to time spent in), I did smoke everyone I shot with - & that shooting minor. Just seems natural to me. (& point taken, that's mostly close in.)

I'd bet 80%+ of us could benefit by the "sitting on the couch" method. Pick out a dime-sized flaw on yer wall & just look at it. Whip up your hand to point at that spot - then look down your main trigger finger joint, sight along it (no cheating, please ;) ) & check your "sight alignment."

Betcha most are all but right there & no matter for anything defensive shooting anyways.

Try the same thing with your cleared handgun - various poses = sitting, standing, quick-draw - whatever.

& now go do that exact same thing on the range.

Within anything defensive range, I'll just betcha that most are close enough for guvmint work. Some refinement of that will make you oh so fast & very capable.

I'd betcha Hellen Keller could take out a bad guy using this same technique. Seriousl as a heart attack.

[Pistolsmith]

Blind people use a form of built in radar. Friend of the family, totally blind from birth, could walk down a hallway and tell exactly which doors were closed or open. Obviously, when deprived of one sense, another will develop.

[owen]

If you are having trouble focusing on the front sight with both eyes open, put some scotch tape over your shooting glasses on the non dominant eye. That makes it hard enough for the weak eye to focus, that it stops trying. If you just can't focus with both eyes open, put a blinder over your non-dominant eye. Its much less fatiguing

When you close one eye a couple things happen. First, you lose depth perception. That's not that big a deal. You lose peripheral vision. That is a big deal. It makes it much harder to navigate when shooting and moving at the same time, and it probably makes your tunnel vision much worse in a stressful situation.
The third thing, is that closing one eye puts a lot of stress on the other one, and fatigues it.

Shooting a handgun, cross dominance isn't a huge problem. Just move your head and use the dominant eye. If you are shooting weakhand, use the dominant eye.

Looking at the front sight, you should NOT see two front sights! Looking at the target, you should NOT see two front sights.

Practicing keeping both eyes open will cause your brain to ignore the image from the non dominant eye while you are aiming. If you close the dominant eye while aiming, the image will jump, and you will see the side of the gun, but you won't see the side of the gun while you are aiming.

[owen]

One more thing,

The easiest way to find your eye dominance:

1) Stick your hands out in front of you
2)With your fingers pointed up, turn your wrists so you are looking at the back your hands
3)rotate your fingers towards the center, and overlap your hands so you form a little triangle to look through.
4) Look at something far away through the opening between your hands
5)pull your hands back to your face.

The opening between your hands will end up over your dominant eye.

[Shane]

When my eyes were good, all I shot was both eyes open. I was quite good at it too--it came pretty natural to me. Now though, my eye muscles have weakened, and one or both eyes wander if I try both open.

[mini14jac]

You do need to find out which eye is your dominant eye.
I'm right handed, and used to shoot with my left eye closed.
I could never hit worth a dime, with a handgun.

I went to a CCW class, and learned about dominant eye.
I am left eye dominant.
I found that, with practice, I can easily focus on the front sight with both eyes open. This leaves the target and the rear sight both slightly out of focus.
Try this at home:
(When you are home by yourself.)
1. Unload the handgun.
2. Verify that the chamber and the gun is empty.
3. Go to a different room than the room where the ammo is.
4. Look at a door knob across the room.
5. Raise the gun, sighting on the door knob with both eyes open, focus on the front sight. The rear sight, and the target will be slightly out of focus.
6. Lower the gun, then repeat.
Try this over and over.

I have to disagree with the poster above who says everybody sees two images, pick the one on the left. ;)
I saw double the first few times I tried this, but now I don't.

You have to practice, and you still may not get it.
From talking to a lot of people, and reading about this, I don't think everyone can shoot with both eyes open.
My wife swears that she can't do it.
If you try it a few times and it doesn't work for you, don't worry about it.

I can't whistle with my fingers in my mouth like some people can.:rolleyes:
And I've never seen one of those hidden 3D pictures that you hold up to your nose, then pull away.
Tried dozens of times, I just can't get it.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Two eyes is a work in progress. I can do it surprisingly well sometimes. But normally, I just use one eye and squint the other slightly closed.

[aug e. dog]

Thanks for all the great info. I'm going to try some of these suggestions this weekend.

[aug e. dog]

Thanks for all the great info. I'm going to try some of these suggestions this weekend.

[Blackhawk]

Owen wrote:The easiest way to find your eye dominance: Except for a much easier way than that:

Point at something with your finger.

Close one eye.

If you're still pointing at it, the open one is your dominant eye.

[owen]

I've tried to have people do that, and it doesn't work.

"Close your left eye Did everything shift?"

"No"

"OK, close your right eye. Did everything shift?"

"No"



:banghead: :D

[Blackhawk]

Is that the eye equivalent of ambidextrous? :)

Since the eyes are separated in the head, there's really not any way for both eyes to be aligned with an object and a mid point at the same time.

[pdowg881]

what if you try opening both eyes when using a scope? I notice after a lot of shooting my non shooting eye is blurry for a few minutes after I'm done. Is this from holding it shut?

[Rigby470]

I am left-eye dominant. I have been practicing the two-eyed approach and I find that I use my left eye to align the sites. With both eyes open, the rear sight is blurry, but nevertheless it is my left eye doing the alignment. My question is this: Why is it such a big deal to shoot right handed and aim with your left eye?

[flashman70]

Yeah, this eye dominance thing is a real bear. I'm cross dominant (RH-LE) and tried to turn my head with both eyes open so that my non-dominant eye was taken out of the equation by the bridge of my nose. Unfortunately, I'm of an age where I need bifocals and doing this took me out of the close-up correction (not to mention a crick in my neck). As a result the front sights are blurrred and my shooting is mediocre. Now I'm going to try the tape over glasses - but cover my dominant eye - and see what happens. When all else fails there's Crimson Trace......

[pdowg881]

I am right handed but left eye dominmant, but when I started shooting I switched to left hand shooting and never went back to my right hand so I never had to learn to switch hands or anything like that.

[deadin]

"One-eyeing" is not good in any of the shooting disciplines, but for different reasons. In Combat type shooting the loss of depth perception and peripheral vision is bad. In Bullseye shooting loss of these factors is not very important as you are shooting at a known distance and you and/or the target isn't moving. However, fatigue becomes a problem as squinting or closing the off eye causes the dominant eye to tire sooner, and puts tension on face muscles that will also cause fatigue. If having both eyes open causes "double vision" or other distractions, using a blinder or diffuser (tape or vaseline) on the off eye lens of your shooting glasses is perfectly acceptable.
As for focusing on the target vs the sights or the other way around, I will speak for Bullseye, Free pistol, etc.(i.e. "Target" shooting). The sights are the way to go and the target is secondary. As I said before, The target isn't moving, it's always the same size at the same distance, so sight alignment is paramount.
I don't shoot Combat so I can't speak for which is best for that discipline but because of the shorter ranges and larger targets with speed and movement being a large factor, I would think that the target would be important.
Besides, many combat or SD guns don't even bother with adjustable sights, so fine tuned sight alignment musn't be all that important for their intended use.

Dean

[k_dawg]

my eyes are fubar.. I call it "ambi-vision"

When I focus on a distant point, my finger [ or front sight ] is split to either side of the point. When the point is centered between the two "fingers" or two "front sights", its right on target.

Weird, but works great for me :-)

[Burt Blade]

And then there are the folks who shoot with both eyes closed.... :rolleyes:

[kennyboy]

I naturally shoot pistols with both eyes open. I shoot just as well as when I use only one eye.

[wally]

All I can say it try it both ways and see what works best for you . As the old saying goes "you can't miss fast enough to win".

Instinctinve shooting I do with both eyes open, for slow maximually accurate shooting I keep one eye open. For steel plates I try to keep both eyes open but for some lighting conditions I have to close one eye to hit anything.

--wally.