[Stand_Watie]

Ehhhhhh, it just went off Sarge:scrutiny:


I can understand the need to preserve evidence, but it seems that unloading the weapon, keeping it pointed in a safe direction, and keeping your finger off the trigger shouldn't completely wreck the state's case against the man for MDOP and carrying charges.


edit - I'd like to add a question for our LEO's - what is your department's policy/regulation for clearing potentially loaded evidence weapons?

****
http://www.mlive.com/news/muchronicle/index.ssf?/base/news-4/108167858685780.xml

A Muskegon Heights police officer was recovering this weekend from a lost finger after a handgun he had seized from a suspect discharged at police headquarters.

Officer Mario D. Sain suffered the loss of his right small finger, police and fire officials said. They said Sain was placing a .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistol in a box at about 4:10 p.m. Friday when the weapon discharged. The gun was being readied for shipment to a crime lab where it was to be checked for fingerprints and other possible clues.

Officials said weapons preserved for evidence and sent for analysis are kept in pristine condition, with as little handling by police as possible. The discharge left a bullet hole inside police headquarters, according to officials

The Glock was seized early Friday after police had answered a call about 10 a.m. to the Day's Inn, 3450 Hoyt, reporting gunshots and malicious destruction of property. About $1,500 damage had been done to a mirror, a wall and other parts of a room at the motel, according to a police report.

Police questioned a male suspect, placed him in custody and later found the weapon they believe was involved in the incident in a yard in the 3300 block of Leahy Street. The suspect, a 26-year-old Egelston Township man, was being held on charges of malicious destruction of property, carrying a concealed weapon and felony firearm.

Muskegon Heights fire officials said they were called to the adjacent police department to lend medical assistance when the accident happened. The police report said Sain was able to dictate his report to another police officer later Friday.

[Sarge]

there are so many SADLY STUPID safety violations to point out here that I'd just wear myself out, and then I'd have to go to work anyway.

Perhaps the worst one is this- of all the guns in the world, more cops get more 'training exposure' to Glocks than everything else combined. Think of the havoc this guy could have wreaked if he had found a 1911, or Colt Single Action:what:

I feel bad for the guy in any event. Maybe he (or his agency) will learn something from the experience.

[Preacherman]

The discharge left a bullet hole inside police headquarters, according to officials
Are they going to send that in for forensic analysis too?

:what: :uhoh: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[tc300mag1]

Boy just leand credit to the Cops are the only ones with proper training and shold be the only ones with guns dont it ..:rolleyes: :cuss:

Another thought just what in the hell was this guy thinking with fingers in front of the muzzle.. well duh

[RustyHammer]

:banghead:

[hansolo]

Sorry the officer lost a pinky............but, why is it all these accidental discharges(well, not ALL but A LOT)happen to involve the Austrian Wonder Pistol?:rolleyes:

[Joshua Hutchison]

I guess that "EvIL" Glock is to blam:p Thats just sad though:D

[thefitzvh]

be quiet about that glock AD/ND stuff.... I want to buy one, and if the anti's hear you, they'll ban it!


James

[SRYnidan]

Two reasons that the Glock gets so much press is that
1. The Glock is the single most prevelant pistol on the maket for police and civilian use.
2. The indoctrination is that it is just like a revolver and can be handeled as such.

[Master Blaster]

5.5 lb trigger pull.

And they Always fire when you load them and pull the trigger.

So this genius pointed a loaded glock at his hand and pulled the trigger.

One thing I'm sure of as a Glock owner, He PULLED the trigger.

[PATH]

:( Sigh! Why do they do these things? Why do they always do these silly things? Negligence, pure and simple! Sorry he lost part of his finger but he of all people should know the rules concerning handling a firearm. As we all know rule one states that they are ALL LOADED!!!!:banghead:

[Mixlesplick]

Jeepers, the Days Inn is about a block and a half from my house. There is a lot of crime in this area. As far as the Muskegon Heights PD is concerned, they do not have a stellar reputation. That department makes the news fairly often and it is usually a negative story about the officers. One officer was recently fired because of a road rage incident while off duty.:cuss:

[cracked butt]

Maybe the gun has been infused with some demons, just like every other 'evil black gun'.

Here's what really happened:
Remember those Friday the thirteenth movies where Jason has voices in his head?
Cop picks up Glock.
Voices in head say "pupupulll ttrtrigger ppupupull trtrtrtigger pupupull trtrtrigger."
The cop who is not immune to demons predicably pulls the trigger.

:rolleyes:

[Standing Wolf]

...with as little handling by police as possible....

Evidently not.

[Highland Ranger]

So as little handling as possible = shipping a LOADED firearm and one without a safety no less . . . . . somebody call OSHA!

[Stand_Watie]

Jeepers, the Days Inn is about a block and a half from my house. There is a lot of crime in this area. As far as the Muskegon Heights PD is concerned, they do not have a stellar reputation

Heh, heh. I know what you're talking about. I grew up near Cloverville about five miles south of there. For a while the Heights had the second highest crime rate in the state, second only to Detroit. I think that Flint or Benton Harbor has beat them out for that trophy recently though.

Part of the problem, IMHO, is that any police department draws heavily from the cultural influence of it's location. For most of you who are not familar with Muskegon Heights, it is a very heavily "urban" or "inner city" area with the consequent unfamiliarity with firearms of it's citizens that are common to urban areas. This guy's first legal experience with firearms might very well have been in the police academy. That doesn't mean he couldn't make a good cop, but he would need additional firearm training to that which Joe "my dad is an NRA instructor" might more commonly need.

[WonderNine]

I see we've got our weekly "Cop with a Glock ND" thread. I was starting to worry. :D

[The_Antibubba]

A valuable lesson learned about gun handling, and it only costs him a pinky? He did better than many :(

Look on the bright side, though-we can honestly say that Glock ADs are a single digit problem! :evil:

[dukeofurl]

$100 says it was the ORIGINAL generation 1 Glock tupperware.

[ceetee]

Glock ADs are a single digit problem!







For shame! For Shame!










Holding head in agony...groan....

[keyhole]

:banghead:

Lack of training

:banghead:

Also see my sig line

[ducktapehero]

Never underestimate human stupidity.

Edited.

Maybe I'm being too harsh but it just seems that a police officer should know how to handle a firearm.

[cxm]

I don't think your numbers are anywhere near right for glock being "most prevalant" pistol.

Consider:

1. More than 9 million 1911 type pistols have been made

2. Over 7 million S&W M&P/M10 .38 revolvers.

It can't be numbers causing the problem with Glock being the subject of nearly every ND we encounter.....

Perhaps it is an inherient design flaw? BTW, did you know Glock has made product with a thumb safety for some military organizations?

FWIW

Chuck


Two reasons that the Glock gets so much press is that
1. The Glock is the single most prevelant pistol on the maket for police and civilian use.
2. The indoctrination is that it is just like a revolver and can be handeled as such.

[TheFederalistWeasel]

Wow… yet another brother or sister officer injured by this colossal flawed POS.

It’s amazing how folks here are quick to blame the operator simply because he/she is a cop there for must be an idiot.
It’s amazing how folks here are quick to pass judgment because every cop this side of Pluto carries the darn thing.

First off there are more of these “incidents” than what is being reported, I know of two in a 30-mile radius of my department
Which, thankfully resulted in no injuries except to the ground.

The gun is a POS, plain and simple.

So many LE Agencies carry the gun not because it’s the best, but because it’s CHEAP!

Glock literally gives them to us, they charge us about half what you pay for one (with out night sites), with nite sites.

They will take any and all guns we’ve confiscated in on trade and when they break or have problems they replace them with no questions asked.

Last month we returned about 8 brand new ones to Glock, which jammed, on every single mag we tried. They were all sequential serial numbers and we tried new replacement mags before returning them.

This is not the first time this has happened.

We have 125 sworn officers who tote either the G22 or G23 and I’d say less than 50 are actually happy with it, most want either a Beretta or a Sig and one guy wants his Walther P99 9mm he carries off duty.

I carry a G22, I hate it. I carry an S&W 360PD as a hold out piece.

When I arrive home, the very first thing I do is unload the G22 and re-secure it in my holster and put it high on a shelf, it does not get loaded again until I go to work again, because I do not trust it and I do not want it loaded around my house.

My off duty carry piece is a Sig P239 .357SIG; my beside the bed gun is a SIG P226 9mm.

I have accepted that the Glocks are here to stay so I am ultra careful with mine, but don’t delude yourself into thinking that LEO’s carry the Glock because it’s the best, they carry it because the department requires it because it’s the cheapest thing going.

[Mizzoutiger]

5.5 lb trigger pull. And they Always fire when you load them and pull the trigger. So this genius pointed a loaded glock at his hand and pulled the trigger. One thing I'm sure of as a Glock owner, He PULLED the trigger.

5 lb trigger pull from the factory, yes. But on this particular one... who knows? If the trigger were pulled accidently, I would bet it had trigger work done.

[Mr. Clark]

If you point the gun at something and pull the trigger... well the consequences of that should be obvious, but apparently to some they are not.

People who can't handle a Glock safely or are afraid of them should never be allowed around any firearm. They are accidents waiting to happen.

The only way that gun went off is if he pulled the trigger. Period.

If you lay a Glock down on a table and walk away and it fires, then that is a design problem. Otherwise it is just sloppy handling by people who should know better.

[Stand_Watie]

http://www.mlive.com/news/muchronicle/index.ssf?/base/news-4/108204039732420.xml


Officials unsure how gun fired, wounding cop

Thursday, April 15, 2004

FROM LOCAL REPORTS

The Muskegon Heights police officer who accidentally shot his little finger off while preparing a suspect's gun for fingerprinting is continuing to recover from his injury

Meanwhile, officials are looking into how the accidental discharge of the .40-caliber Glock40 semi-automatic handgun occurred Friday inside the police department.

Once the followup investigation is completed, it will be up to Police Chief George Smith Jr. to determine whether the officer involved, Mario Sain, will receive any discipline, said Detective Sgt. Clifton Johnson.

Sain, 34, had arrested a suspect in connection with gun-related vandalism at Day's Inn, 3450 Hoyt, on Friday morning. A weapon believed to be the suspect's was found in the 3300 block of Leahy Street.

Late Friday afternoon, Sain was getting the gun ready for the police department's own technician to test for fingerprints when the weapon accidentally discharged, Johnson said.

Procedure calls for the gun to be placed in a box, and then a wooden dowel or some other type of rod is positioned so the trigger cannot be pulled and the gun cannot fire. It was at that point that the accident is believed to have occurred.

Johnson said the bullet that was fired was found on the floor at the police department. Firefighters next door were called to render medical assistance after the gun discharged shortly after 4 p.m.

[cracked butt]

most want either a Beretta or a Sig

What rational being wouldn't?

:D

[Tamara]

It’s amazing how folks here are quick to blame the operator simply because he/she is a cop there for must be an idiot.

I'm not calling him an idiot because he's a cop, I'm calling him an idiot because he had one finger on the trigger and another in front of the muzzle of a gun he had not cleared. That qualifies pretty much anybody as an idiot by whatever standards one cares to use.

(PS: If you wish to minimize your chances of an ND with your issue piece, I'd cut down on all that administrative handling. You're far more likely to unintentionally bust a cap while unholstering, unloading, reloading or reholstering than you would be if you just left the dang gun loaded and in the holster.)

[Marko Kloos]

Cops are humans, too. It's wrong to assume they're somehow too dumb to handle Glocks. For every police officer who shoots himself accidentally with a Glock, I can dig up two or three news pieces dealing with Stupid Civilian Gun Tricks.

However, it's also a fallacy to assume that police officers have innately better gun handling and safety skills than Joe Sixpack.

Last week, I was handed a T&E Glock 23 coming back from the TN LE Academy in Nashville. It was taken out of the UPS overnight box, and I opened the Glock case to check the serial number in order to log the gun into our Big FFL Book O' Guns.

I ejected the magazine, which was empty. I racked the slide, and out of the chamber popped a Remington Golden Saber 165 grain HP round.

And that gun came from a TN Police Gun Skul, a place where they *teach* shooting and safety bits to rank-and-file officers. :what:

Guns don't care if the guy handling them wears a badge or not. Pull the trigger on a Glock without being 100% sure of the loading status of the chamber, and the gun will go "bang". They will not go bang without that trigger being pulled, though, and I call BS when someone says "the gun somehow went off". I don't care whether the story involves a sloshed redneck shooting his TV, or a beat cop with thirty years on the street. If the gun went off, then someone had their finger on the trigger when it wasn't supposed to be there. No excuses, and no credit for profession.