BPS vs. 870


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WhiteKnight
April 12, 2004, 08:16 PM
How do the Browning BPS shotguns compare to the Remington 870s overall? I am talking specifically about the camo turkey models offered.

I know that Remington 870s are heralded by many to be the "beat all, end all" of shotguns, with extensive aftermarket parts and widespread gunsmith support backing them.

Yet I can afford a BPS, which from my experience runs a bit higher.

Are there any common known BPS problems?

Which is better?

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45Badger
April 12, 2004, 09:43 PM
Got both, use both, love both. Both Excellent guns.

All my hunting pump guns are BPS's. They fit me well, I shoot them well, I think they are beautiful guns. I prefer the older, darker walnut, high gloss guns with assorted engraving (rollmarks?). Really nice fit/finish.

I grew up and lived many years in "Remington Country" and did not notice the nice stuff being made down the road.

When I moved to Wisconsin, used Remington 870s were not in every gun store. The one day, I found a SWEET 20 gauge with a vent rib, modified (fixed) choke and a love of all smoothbores made in Ilion was kindled :D

I've since bought a few more, and shoot them more than the Brownings. But I still hunt with the BPS's.

The way I look at it, my oldest boy will get the Remingtons, and my youngest (southpaw!) will get the Brownings!

;)

HSMITH
April 12, 2004, 09:58 PM
I've had both, several of each. I think the BPS is a better manufactured gun, held to much tighter tolerances and finished very well. That said they are not worth two 870's, not even close. The 870 express is what I would recommend, paint it camo and be done with it. It will last several lifetimes. Turkey models are a gimmick, nothing more. To pay extra for one is absurd.

PJR
April 12, 2004, 10:07 PM
It depends what you want to do with this gun. Both are solid, reliable guns. The BPS is better choice for for hunting. The bottom eject is very welcome in a duck blind because you are not bouncing hulls off the heads of your fellow hunters. The BPS bottom eject doesn't make it the first choice for clay target shooting because it does not load as easily as the 870.

The top tang safety on the BPS is positive and sure and I prefer somewhat it to the push button safety of the older Remingtons and much prefer it to the POS locking safety that Remington puts on its guns. (Note, I understand Remington has dropped this abomination but all the Remingtons I've seen around here still have them).

Remington's quality control has suffered in recent years. Much of the adoration of the 870 (and I'm as guilty as anyone) is based on guns at least ten years old. Newer production isn't to the same standard. I would buy a used 870 but I'm very reluctant about the new ones.

In the final analysis any shotgun comes down to what fits you and feels best in your hands. Shoot both and chose the one that feels best.

Paul

Dave McCracken
April 13, 2004, 06:18 AM
The BPS is a lot of shotgun. It's also a lot of money compared to the stalwarts in the Big Four.

Be that as it may, I see little downside to the BPS except for the price. Owners of these seem a happy and effective lot.

Delmar
April 13, 2004, 07:11 AM
I think the BPS is a fine looking shotgun-whats the drill when it comes to stripping them down for cleaning and maintenence? Anything easy like the 870? I do like the modular trigger of the 870 very much.

WhiteKnight
April 13, 2004, 09:44 AM
I've put in a couple straight hours of research over the past 24 hours and this is what I've gathered:

The BPS
is prone to rust (not sure if this applies to the camo Duracoated models)

has a longer pump stroke than most pump shotguns

has a "top tang" safety, instead of the conventional "behind the trigger" one

is much heavier than most pump shotguns of its class ("too heavy for clay shooting"). This may be an asset when shooting heavy turkey or deer loads and sitting still all day, but walking 'round fields all day for birds it could become very tiring.

the bottom eject mechanism is good for hunting in a duck blind, but bad for sporting clays, skeet, trap, etc (the design does not lend itself to quick reloads of one or two shells)

is significantly more expensive than one of "the big four"

is difficult to field strip

extra barrels are expensive

typically has a gritty, heavy trigger that needs a gunsmith to work it over

Hastings is the only real maker of Invector-Plus choke tubes for it

PJR
April 13, 2004, 11:54 AM
I don't agree with all the advice you've received and some of it is just wrong.

("too heavy for clay shooting").
Heavy is good for clay shooting. Most clay guns are in the 7-1/2 to 9lbs range.

typically has a gritty, heavy trigger that needs a gunsmith to work it over
Sadly, so does everything else including Remington.

Hastings is the only real maker of Invector-Plus choke tubes for it
That must come as a surprise to Tru-Lock, Briley, Colonial, Teague, Seminole, Rhino and just about every other aftermarket choke manufacturer. All of them make Invector-Plus chokes.

Don't believe everything you read.

Paul

Marshall
April 13, 2004, 05:31 PM
I think the Camo Turkey model is an excellent gun for that type of hunting! Brownings quality is as high if not higher than most any of the pump guns offered in todays market in it's price range and under.

10shooter
April 13, 2004, 07:52 PM
I find the BPS easier to load then the Remington. Never going to say geeze I can't find a good choke tube, lots of choices. Better fit and finish on the BPS, my trigger is good. You pay a little more but you get a little more. I have a Remington 870 and a BPS, like the Remington, love the BPS. I haven't had any issues with rust on either.

Mr Kablammo
April 13, 2004, 09:31 PM
I have BPS in 12 ga and 20 ga, and an 870 in 20 ga. They both excellent guns. In particular the BPS 20 ga gets a lot of compliments. I don't see a downside to the BPS.

Gordon
April 14, 2004, 01:38 AM
I have 4 870's currently, 3 in 12 ga and one in 28ga. I only have one BPS in 10ga. I have two model 31 Remingtons and two model 37 Ithacas, each one a 12 & 20ga. My take on them is this: you heard the old saw " don't s**t where you eat", well may I say it's a poor idea to eject where you feed from. A hole could be machined in the side of the BPS or Model 37 so you could feed a round into the chamber, and then I might not have to say the Remington design is superior. Even with what I said I'd not give up any of my pumps mentioned. BTW I sold off all my Winchestern mod 12 pumps. I DO have a Mod 42 and a 97 though, as my Winchester pump represenitives. The only reason I have a BPS is it is 10ga. and fairly well made.:D

Lone Star
April 14, 2004, 01:05 PM
Gordon-

Why did you sell your Model 12's? :confused: Most think the Winchester M12 is one of the all-time great shotguns.

As for rust, looking at a number of used guns, I see more rust on Remingtons than on anything else, and I suspect that their steel doesn't have as much chrome as the other good manufacturers' does. This also applies to their rifles.

This is a good thread! I had an early BPS that ran a little rough, and the late Don Zutz, a very superior gun writer, told me that the BPS was clubby and sluggish in operation. But I recently saw two more recent ones, and the actions ran much more smoothly. For what it's worth, I NEVER see real gun buffs with the BPS. But don't see many BPS's at all. I've wondered why.

I plan to buy a shotgun this year, and have narrowed it down to a 870 Wingmaster, an Ithaca M37 (hard to find used), a BPS, or a Remington M1100LW 20 ga. on the slim 20 ga. frame. Might consider the Beretta M391, but Beretta changes models so often that I'm worried about replacement parts some years down the road.

Lone Star

ruger357
April 14, 2004, 02:20 PM
Have owned both and they are both great shotguns, I just prefer the 870.

Correia
April 14, 2004, 02:40 PM
These are my first and second favorite pump guns. Either would be a great gun.

WhiteKnight
April 14, 2004, 07:41 PM
For what it's worth, I NEVER see real gun buffs with the BPS. But don't see many BPS's at all. I've wondered why.

This is interesting. Does anyone here care to comment? :confused:

Gordon
April 14, 2004, 09:20 PM
Because there are not many milled parts on BPS? I sold my finely machined Winchester model 12 collection because : the prices were up at the time, they don't handle well for me and are kinda heavy, they seem to get loose after a while (prolly anything does but the parts that were wearing were MAJOR strucural parts and not easily replaceable).When I was a kid in the 50's Model 12s were THE repeater, but I think the other mentioned shotguns I have are slicker.

Al Thompson
April 14, 2004, 09:21 PM
I'd have to agree. For some reason, I haven't seen many on the trap/skeet/SC fields myself. It is very popular with the waterfowl guys here and especially for left handed shotgunners.

IMHO, they are in the same church, different pews. :)

WhiteKnight
April 14, 2004, 10:14 PM
Arrg! With the sides split evenly between
1) The BPS is great
2) the 870 is greater
3) both are great, you choose

I am having a hard time deciding. :confused:

And no, I can't buy both (at least not for a few years). :p

Decisions, decisions. :(

Dave McCracken
April 15, 2004, 06:23 AM
IMO, the BPS isn't wildly popular because it does nothing that a Big Four pump won't and costs more.

A new BPS costs about as much or more than 2 used WMs.

M Jager
April 15, 2004, 06:20 PM
I guess I'll add my take as well,
The BPS is a good solid shotgun. The bottom eject is a plus in my book, one less hole for stuff to get into the gun through.
Yes the blued brownings are notorious for rusting, keep them oiled though and you will be fine. Doubt the camo version will have any problems here.
Don't let anyone tell you the bps is a bad gun for clays. I used one for a couple years and didn't feel handicapted. In fact I did quite well with it and showed up many shooters with high dollar over unders. Of course I got showed up by others with over unders and even by a guy with an old 870 winmaster. software vs. hardware as dave says.
The bps is more complicated to tear down but isn't bad with a little practice.
Try them both and buy the one you like best.
Matt

WhiteKnight
April 15, 2004, 07:04 PM
Turkey models are a gimmick, nothing more. To pay extra for one is absurd.

Well honestly I am planning to purchase the turkey model because it comes with accessories I would probably purchase/install anyway.
1) sling swivels
2) drilled and tapped for a scope mount (i can mount a rifled choke tube on it this fall for deer also)
3) fiber optic sight
4) an extra-full choke tube

The barrel length on the turkey model is a 24".

However I am going to need a longer barrel for everything BESIDES turkey shooting (sporting clays, skeet, trap, waterfowl, etc) and I am planning to purchase an extra 28" barrel.

Browning offers 26" and 28" barrels, and I will most likely purchase a 28" for whenever I'm not turkey hunting.

Or would a 26" barreled version be better to begin with? I really just don't like the idea of going without a sling or the reciever being drilled/tapped for a scope.

cracked butt
April 16, 2004, 12:40 AM
I have had them both.
The only difference I see is that the Browning is better for lefty shooters.
Never had a problem with rusting on the browning- if your gun rusts, its because you are neglecting it or using it in a saltwater environment.
I wold say that I prefer the browning over the 870 except that extra barrels are prohibitively expensive if you want to convert your waterfowl gun into a slug gun.

Yes the 870 express is alot cheaper than the bps, but also is and looks cheaper, and holds no appeal to me. A more fair comparison would be a Wingmaster compared to a BPS- I'd put the two on even ground and then would give the nod to the 870.

Marshall
April 16, 2004, 01:03 AM
Guess it depends how and where you hunt?

I shoot more ducks with my 24" turkey bbl than my buddies with their 28 and 30" bbls. See, most of our hunting is in timber and using decoys most of the time. We hunt some big water but still use decoys. I can reach plenty far with a 24" bbl and choose whatever choke I want. It's also a good pheasant bbl.

Now, for other game birds like quail, etc., I like 16ga & 20ga's so I don't even give thought to that with my turkey and duck gun(s). BTW, I have many Brownings and a few Remington shotguns I have purchased over the years, I leave the 28" and 30" bbls home anymore.

I will promise you both are very good guns and you really cant go wrong. I am just more of a Browning fan overall. Oh, none of mine have rust! That should never be an issue! Those who care for their guns, dont have rust, Those that don't, chance rust on all their guns!

WhiteKnight
April 17, 2004, 01:09 AM
more fair comparison would be a Wingmaster compared to a BPS- I'd put the two on even ground and then would give the nod to the 870.

'cept the Wingmaster isn't camo. :D

cracked butt
April 17, 2004, 01:21 AM
I see. I missed that qualification in your original post. My bad.:o

Gordon
April 17, 2004, 02:04 AM
I recently got a n 80's production 870 in 28 ga. I fired it couple hundred times at trap range. At the range I met a gent with a 28ga BPS a couple weeks ago. We swaped guns for a round. This was my impression: the 870 'shucked' more positively, you could feel the stuff working and very positively. The BPS was more indistint in it's throw but once it started it did go all the way to rear effortlessly. I didn't like the way the rib raises up on the browning, I like the rib on the 870 as it lets me get my head down for a good spot weld. The BPS was nice but I like the 870 better. Finish about the same on my 80's gun and his 90's gun. His gun was tubed and mine not, a plus for BPS. I like my 10ga BPS and wouldn't trade it for any thing else for wildfouling(ducks and geese) in US.:D

WhiteKnight
April 18, 2004, 01:17 AM
His gun was tubed and mine not, a plus for BPS.

I beg your pardon, but I'm not familar with the difference between a "tubed" gun and and "untubed" one. Does this mean his had a magazine extension? :confused:

Gordon
April 18, 2004, 12:30 PM
chokeTUBE.:p

WhiteKnight
April 19, 2004, 07:16 PM
I shoot more ducks with my 24" turkey bbl than my buddies with their 28 and 30" bbls. See, most of our hunting is in timber and using decoys most of the time. We hunt some big water but still use decoys. I can reach plenty far with a 24" bbl and choose whatever choke I want. It's also a good pheasant bbl.

Now, for other game birds like quail, etc., I like 16ga & 20ga's so I don't even give thought to that with my turkey and duck gun(s). BTW, I have many Brownings and a few Remington shotguns I have purchased over the years, I leave the 28" and 30" bbls home anymore.

So you wouldn't consider a 24" tube to be a handicap? What about hunting over a lot of water/fields/sporting clays?

Dave McCracken
April 20, 2004, 05:58 AM
WK, no handicap to a 24" barrel. Some of us do better with the longer ones due to balance issues.

YammyMonkey
April 21, 2004, 07:19 PM
My dad has been using an 870 since long before I was born (26 now) but after I got a BPS for pheasant/waterfowl he decided to switch to the Browning as well. Liked the feel of it and the bottom eject better.

If it were my money I'd spend a few extra $$ and go with the BPS over again. Assuming, of course that another Citori wouldn't work for me.:D

WhiteKnight
April 21, 2004, 10:48 PM
I got a BPS for pheasant/waterfowl

Which model did you get?

45Badger
April 22, 2004, 12:40 AM
Something to be careful of-

I had a BPS "game gun", came with a rifle sighted barrl witha turkey choke tube, and a rifled choke tube. I think it had what they referred to as a "no drop at heel" stock. This was very comfortable in shooting as a "rifle" but was awkward whn I put a 26" barrel on it and used it to shoot clays.

OTOH, my "regular" BPS was (is) a great shotgun for wingshooting, but when I put a Hastings cantilevered scope mount barrel on it, it beats the SKGHIUG(&*PYT out of my shoulder.

Make sure you get the stock configuration you want/need.

WhiteKnight
April 22, 2004, 07:33 PM
Make sure you get the stock configuration you want/need.

Sound advice.

I've compared all of the Browning BPS models and decided on the non-magnum chambered Mossy Oak Break up 3" chambered 26" barreled gun.

As of now I'm also considering purchasing an 870 Wingmaster instead.

Decisions, decisions.
:(

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