[RobertHankins]

Would you rather have more power IE: Large caliber or faster recovery for the followup shot?
Talking Semi-Auto handguns here

[Preacherman]

I'd take the best combination of both that I could handle - i.e. the most powerful round/gun combination that I could control in rapid fire.

Moving this to Handguns - General for further discussion.

[Zundfolge]

Sounds like a rehash of th 9mm vs .45acp debates.


Ya know, I've shot both calibers (and .40 ... which is what I shoot most) side by side more times then I can count, and I don't think your followup shots with a .45 are so much slower then 9mm that its going to cost you your life in a self defense shooting .... sure in a competition setting where you're scores are based on 1/100ths of a second you might notice the difference, but under the stress of self defense I doubt you're going to be able to tell what caliber you're firing anyway, let alone have significant problem with your followups.

[BluesBear]

Both are easily achievable.

[Archie]

What is the basis for the assumption that one may fire a full magazine of 15 or 18 shots?

I live in a major city and work inside the terminal in a major airport.

On the street, at any given moment are many people who fit the "innocent bystander" category and even more buildings and vehicles and property which I am NOT at liberty to destroy or damage.

At work, I have something like 1,000 innocent bystanders in an area the size of two football fields.

I flat can't miss in the first place. Not allowed. No option.

So those of you who can fire a 10 to 30 shot burst, where do you live?

[Double Naught Spy]

What is the basis for the assumption that a person may fire a full magazine? Simple, countless police and civilian accounts where folks kept pulling the trigger until all rounds were expended and in some cases in the old days, continuing to pull the trigger and rotate the cylinder on a revolver that had already expended the shots.

So you work around a lot of people and can't afford to miss and hit a bystander. How is your situation so different from that of everyone else who carries?

Bigger caliber or faster follow-ups? You need to carry a platform and caliber that you can handle best and that is able to be carried in a legal manner. For me, that is a 1911. The potential is there to have a slightly faster follow-up with a smaller caliber, but what makes you think you will get a second shot? Your gun or ammo may malfunction after the first shot. There are several instances documented where this has happened, one recently where a Houston cop was killed in a gunfight after his gun malfunctioned after the first shot. In an exchange of fire, maybe your gun gets hit by incoming fire and is disabled. Your first shot needs to be properly placed and be also large as you can handle well.

[Ben Shepherd]

My input FWIW:

If it happens, I hope its when I'm out chasing deer with a 30-06. No overpenetration, concealment, innocent bystander, etc. worries. Plenty of power for a OSS.

Ain't gonna happen in the real world. For me 5 357in the gun and 1 speed strip at the ready is plenty. But I live in a pretty calm area. If I lived where the gangs were doing fake "swat style" invasions, I would most likely carry a double-stack semi-auto with 2 spare mags, and 40S&W would be my caliber of choice.

Why these 2 calibers? Because in thier respective platforms, they strike the best balance of power vs. controlability for me. Maybe you're 6'5" and 300lbs, so you can handle full house 44mag and 10mm easily.

Bottom line: Weapon & caliber choice is based on personal parameters, but should not be made lightly.

[Ankeny]

The question specifically asks about a follow up shot. Where did the notion of emptying an entire magazine come from?

I sold my G19 and went to a light weight commander sized 1911 style pistol in .45 Auto. I decided to go with the largest caliber that I can handle.

[cratz2]

I'd prefer a faster second shot.

Having said that, a 1911 offers both. I can shoot a double tap of standard pressure 230 Gr Golden Sabers from most 1911s nearly as fast a double tap of 124 Gold Dot +P 9mms from, say, my Taurus PT99.

I still would feel very well armed with just about any modern 9mm, 40S&W or 45ACP assuming completely reliability and reliably expanding HPs.

[flatrock]

To some extent I think the answer to your question depends upon how concealable the gun needs to be.

You can have a large gun with a longer barrel that handles the recoil of higher caliber quite well.

If you're looking at thesame handgun in two different calibers, I think that's a different question that what most people have answered.

If you're comparing a small ultra-compact gun in 9 mm vs. the same gun in .40, then I think it really depends on what you can shoot well.

I doubt you can rely on one shot removing the threat, so you want to be able to get that second shot on target quickly.

If you don't think the 9 mm will do the job, plan on spending even more time on the range learning to control the .40 version as best you can.

As a firearms instructor recently told me. Compact carry guns can be great guns for their purpose, but they require more practice to shoot well.

[Sean Smith]

I tend to be biased towards bigger calibers myself. .45 and 10mm. I don't think the speed difference is enough to matter in a fight, and since all handgun calibers stink, I want one that stinks as little as possible.

[Heraclitus]

Would you rather have more power IE: Large caliber or faster recovery for the followup shot?What's large? ;)

I prefer both. Particularly where it counts (i.e., my SIG P-229). I recently ordered an EFK Dual Action Recoil Buffer System to replace the factory spring. I don't have it yet, but when I get it I'll put it to the test and let you know how it works. Apparently it cuts recoil by 40%, allowing for faster recovery. The slide's rearward movement is "progressively reduced in stages" by two concentric springs -- as in some H&K models -- eliminating much of the kick you feel with high-power loads and putting a damper on muzzel flip in the process... or so the theory goes (To me, "progressively reduced in stages" sounds suspiciously like marketing gobbledygook for Hooke's Law, which applies to ANY old spring). We'll see.

I also bought a .357 SIG conversion barrel for the same gun. Not exactly larger than the original .40 S&W, but surely adding more umph to it. This is where I intend to prove -- or disprove -- the merits of the EFK system. The verdict isn't in yet, but you'll be the first to know when it is.

Made in the U.S., by the way, so it's gotta be good... right? Riiiiiiiiiight?

[Mark13]

I think up close, for most self defense situations, you would want as large a caliber as you could handle + alot of ammo capacity. You really aren't aiming for precision at less than 5 yards,

I noticed farther away (40 yds) with my glock 23, the recoil was enough to slow my shots while aiming at a man sized target. Although this distance would be rare for a non-LEO, I would go for a large 9mm, low recoiling pistol, + a lot of ammo capacity that I can put my sights back on target the fastest with.

[priv8ter]

Since Preacherman sent this to general handguns, I'll add my opinion.

In my SP-101, which is strong enough to handle any load I would want to carry, I have decided to go with a .38 +P load instead of a .357 load for a carry load. It is easier for me to control. So, while in my case, I have made my decision in favor of faster recovery.

greg

[Flashpoint]

I practice to put 2-3 rounds into a soccerball area at around 7 yards quickly. I use a .40 cal and have no trouble but if I thought I could do it with a .45 or 10mm or even a DE .50 I would try it. I might be able to so do it with a .45, I have never had the oppertunity to try it.

If anyone would like to send me thier .45cal 1911 I that would be great, and I would even post a rang report.:D

[Marshall]

Would you rather have more power IE: Large caliber or faster recovery for the followup shot?

YES :neener:

[agtman]

If you do enough shooting/practicing/training with the larger calibers, including those that tend to be relatively large AND fast (.40, but especially the 10mm), then the question posed essentially becomes a false choice.

With dedicated practice you'll become proficient enough at speed that any difference in "recovery time" with a pistol chambered in 9mm, .40S&W, 45acp or 10mm AUTO is theoretical at best.

In the real world at real gunfight distances (15 feet or less), you can, with practice, become proficient enough even with the larger or more powerful cartridges to accurately double- or even triple-tap rounds into the target. But it does take a lot of range time to get there, and some people aren't willing to expend that much time, effort and cost, or, due to life or career circumstances, simply can't.

The factor of stress in a real encounter does diminish accuracy, which is why relying for mental comfort on a hi-cap mag is always a bad idea because it tends to encourage panicky "spray-n-pray" by the marginally trained or inexperienced. The effect of stress on accuracy can be reduced by regular practice, to include shooting on the move, shooting at moving targets and even "simunition" or paint-ball type training, in which the "targets" shoot back.

You'd be surprised how the "one-hole-wonder" types, who are normally fantastic shooters on stationary paper targets, just can't empty their hi-cap mags fast enough and still HIT NOTHING when "simunition" rounds or paint balls are whizzing by their heads (and groins :D ).

But in a real life shoot-out, the question would be: where did all those rounds that MISSED end up? :scrutiny:

[RobertHankins]

My personal preference is 45acp however it needs to have the weapon design to back it up. Compensaters Etc.

[444]

The most important shot is the one that is still in the barrel. That is the ONE that has to find it's mark and get the job done. That is the ONE that demands all your concentration and technique.
Personally, I think you should decide on one gun and forget everything else. Learn to control it so that you can shoot it quickly and accurately.

[russlate]

If you want reality, consider that you will likely be attacked when you are unprepared and not looking for it. Your realization you need to fight may come only after you've been sucker punched or knocked semi-concious. You may be weak as a kitten.

The 200 ft. lbs. muzzle energy from a standard pressure 38 special out of a snub barrel or the 190 ft. lbs. from a 380 may only be half the energy of a good 9mm load, but they both have proven themselves controllable in extremis. And both have been improved from the days of lead round nose and ball at about 50 % stopping power to post Lee Juras and Super Vel controlled expanding rounds to the about 70 % ballpark. Plus neither is going to blind me with muzzle flash, nor deafen me like a snub 357.

5 or 6 rounds in a revolver with a speedloader, up to 13+1 in a selfloader, with another 13 quickly available. I can live with the first one on me and the second within arm's reach.

Maybe considering the above, you ought to rethink. Then do what you feel's right.

[Archie]

So you work around a lot of people and can't afford to miss and hit a bystander. How is your situation so different from that of everyone else who carries? It isn't different at all.
If in the use of otherwise proper deadly physical force, anyone ends up shooting one or more 'innocent bystanders', one should not expect to hear a "well done". More like a cell door closing. At the very least, the sound of all one's worldy goods fluttering away...going to the survivors of the innocent bystander one shot.

Several people have presented a very good answer: Both.

45 ACP, 45 Colt, 44 Special, light loaded 44 and 41 Magnums and 357 Magnum are the powerhouses on the handgun scale. 40 S&W is a borderline round, and 357 SIG and 9x19 bringing up the small end of the scale.
Now, before anyone gets shirty about 357 SIG and 9x19, just remember what started this thread: Horsepower or recovery time. 9x19's long suite is short recovery time and lots of ammo in one magazine.

45 ACP is not that hard to handle in rapid fire. Sorry folks, but it just isn't that hard to handle. With training and practise, a K-frame Smith with heavy 357 Magnum loads is managable in rapid fire.

However, the more shots fired, the more likely the chance of a miss.
When one starts a confrontation with the idea of "... shoot him/her/them/they/it two or three times each..." one is already increasing the probablilty of a missed shot.

The old adage about "You can't miss fast enough to win" applies in gunfights, too.

[Amish_Bill]

I went to the middle ground. (at least for one of my carry options)

It's a .45, but it's a Commander sized, alloy framed lightweight loaded w/ 185gr HP. (230gr has a bit of a recoil in it, and 185 +p darn near rip it out of my hand)

[JohnKSa]

Both is definitely the correct answer, but a lot of people aren't realistic about their limitations.

Remember you don't get to choose all the circumstances.

Better pick something you can shoot effectively (rapidly and accurately)while under severe stress and using only your weak hand.