Got Carded Today


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sm
April 14, 2004, 06:50 PM
For buying Cigarettes.

I am 48 , well until Monday anyway.

So here I am in AR at a USA Drug and asked to see ID. Huh? AR Law does not sell Tobacco to persons younger than 18 . One has to be 21 for alcohol.

Silly me asks "why".
Reply - "we don't care if you are 90, have to show ID".

I resisted the urge to toss a couple of CCW permits on the counter...I used my College ID. " I need to see a legal form of ID". Great the folks at DMV takes the worst pics...she accepts this.

So in the parking lot I ask the Asst Mgr. "State Law, 35 yrs old in appearence or younger we to "have"card for tobacco...In fact since we sell Beer, we card everyone 35 yrs old and younger..."

Now I'm more curious, get home and punch up Ark.Leg...all I can find is the legislation in regard to the amt of tax revenue, quite a bit on this btw

Dial the phone, for Ar State legislative questions...I actually talked to a human! I am transferred to the Tobacco Control Board. [ umm okay, didn't know we had that ]

I am informed that one must be 18 in the State of AR to buy tobacco.[ Yep I knew this] Proof of legal photo ID,...such as DL, Military ID includes "kid of Military ID", ... School ID ( mine is not legal because my DOB is not on it...yeah we have a lot of 12 yrs olds at college with College ID *smirk*).

I am informed that a LOT of "home offices" are making the corporate decision to make their own policies, some places it is 27 , 29 , 35 years of age for both tobacco or alcohol sales, folks are to be carded. Well okay, that is their right, it's CYA deal.

So I ask just whom or what is the AR Tobacco Board akin to ? Who does the enforcment?

Think of us as being the "T" as in the ATF.
We have our own enforcement officers and protocol, actually we have some broad jurisdictions and powers.
We use informents, and send underage persons in to buy tobacco products. We do not "bait or decieve" by sending a underage person in that "might" appear older than they are.

At this point I'm thinking F troop. Might as well ask and further my education. So I ask about going out of state and buying cigarettes , how much can I buy and bring back to AR "legally". Answer : 1 carton and 1 pack. Anymore and I would be "bootlegging"

"What about those internet sites ...especially the Native Americans, that sell tobacco on-line"

Reply- "That is illegal as well. We are having a devil of a time with bottlegging and internet sells. We have raised fines and all...we have procured more means to catch folks...enforcment has new methods, techiques and all...don't know how we can deter and STOP this activity".

I replied " In all due respect ma'am, you cannot STOP it. All this does is keep an honest man honest. Remember Prohibition? Truth is folks are gonna do what they wanna do. One thing folks do not want is to be Controlled ...especially when that control is under the guise of something else...like tobacco tax monies.

- Silence-

I continued to state ," I don't want to argue the tobacco or alcohol use ...anything else of minors. Part of the problem is parents don't teach kids and raise them such. Schools...public schools for too long have preached this feely -touchy "gummit gonna take care you" doctrine. Everybody else jumped on the bandwagon.

Now ma'am a lot of kids, including girls, asked about tobacco growing up. A parent or grandparent would hand them a smoke, teach them to roll one, or a plug of chewing tobacco. Kids get light headed and start coughing...maybe they don't like that plug of tobacco...they never ever touch it again. Responsible parents / adults taught and answered questions...curiousity satisfied. Or they got butt spanked when sneaking off , lying about it and got caught...heck some would have had a chance to try in front of a parent and evaded the spanking."

Being more curious ( and tacky) I holler at my just turned 24 yr old neighbor and we hit a local Mom&Pop drug store, a two gas stations with a "mart" inside. She was not carded, she is young looking for her age...I mean young. Maybe the shorts , sandles and low cut top without a bra is the trick...I dunno

Well I wanted to share this.

Shaking my head and wondering about the "T" enforcement team . They got flash bangs and such ? :D

I'm such a threat to society, White male, late 40's...gee I've been profiled :D Travis McGee was right I see...:p

I sure am glad the State of AR is protecting me...:uhoh: :scrutiny:

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GigaBuist
April 14, 2004, 07:02 PM
I got carded once for buying a non-tobacco non-nicotine containing chewing tobacco look alike product.

I informed them that there's no tobacco in this, it's legal to sell without ID.

Company policy, have to ID even though it's not restricted by law in any way, shape, or form. Holy crap.

Bought ammo at Gander Mountain once and was told I had to be 21 to legally purchase pistol ammo. I think that's actually the case... I wasn't going to argue though. I just said, "Uh huh," and she seemed to refuse selling to me. "I'm 23, is that close enough?" Sigh. She got the idea. Backwards math.

sm
April 14, 2004, 07:09 PM
Well next time I'm asked why I CCW...

I might get attacked by a bunch of BIG 16 y/o's wanting my smokes...:D

I think the gummits at all levels have their tin foils hats on a bit too tight. That or "Indoctrination" has replaced the New Employee Introduction to your job description and the handbook rewritten.

I guess I need to do a search and see if PVC or old ammo boxes still the best thing to bury stuff in...I wonder if the hardpacks do better that soft packs when you bury cigarettes. :p

jfh
April 14, 2004, 07:23 PM
carding phenomena, I think we would find it is in direct correllation to the rise of the nanny society stuff--which came out of the victimology game Sick Willy cranked up, of course.

Essentially, it's the great activist game, combined with CYA thinking--e.g., we start out with, for example,

1. the tobacco outrage game. That leads to
2. some underemployed do-goodies creating an activitist group, and they lead to
3. the politicos creating a commission to study the issue, which leads to...
4. hearings, contentious hearings, and new laws, which lead to...
5. new legalized mandates for control, which leads to....
6. an ATF office, with non-legal but regulatory guidelines and that leads to...
7. the Trial Lawyers seeing a new revenue stream, which leads to...
8. a business getting caught in a sting, and a lawsuit, and that leads to...
9. the boss, or the corporate office creating new 'selling' regulations, and
since the boss wants to be doubly cautious, he now creates guidelines to "card anybody that looks under 35 (nominally double the legal age) because that ought to keep us safe, but that leads to
10. the local manager/counter employee saying to hisself, "well, since the boss wants to check ID on anyone who looks under 35, I'm gonna CMA and card anyone under 50....
11. And finally we have a counter kid saying to you, showing me your ID--
and the first thing you know, you--an OWM of 54, standing in the short grocery line at the local cakeeater's grocery store--being asked for an ID by some poor cashier who looks every bit as old as you do, and all the suburban Sallies in line behind you frowning, since you are gabberflasted and actually asked "WHY?"

All those people in the chain--from the outraged citizen at the beginning through to the smug clerk at the end, get to FEEL GOOD: they have been able to DO SOMETHING--but all that something is, at the end of things, is another absurd social transaction that diminishes the civility of our lives.

This is, of course, the great GUN CONTROL game, right?

Zach S
April 14, 2004, 07:41 PM
About the only time I get carded is for ammo at wally world, I can count the times I've been carded for smokes on one hand. I've never been carded for alcohol, of course I can count the times I've bought it on one hand.

I look older than I actually am, however I'm 22 years old. Evidently I look older than 27...

Sisco
April 14, 2004, 07:48 PM
At some of the local businesses if a checker sells tobacco or alcohol to a minor the fine comes out of his / her pocket. A $300 fine and a minimum wage job don't go well together.
Maybe a case of once bitten twice shy?

sm
April 14, 2004, 09:14 PM
Yes some folks have to pay fines out of pocket, no matter the pay scale it still hurts.

Just gets one to thinking as jfh alluded to...mindset of today's society.

Hey a classmate is 32, has two girls and wants to purchase model car / airplane glue for one of the girls helping granddad put a model plane together ( quality time and history lesson). While she is at the grocery she wants a can of whip creme as a treat for strawberry shortcakes.. She has to ask for it as it is now behind the counter...she wasn't carded, but still had to ask. Grocer didn't like the policy...kids sniff this stuff. His contention is next you know kids will have to have an adult buy gas for the family lawnmower...kids sniff gas as well.

I mowed yards as a kid and put models together...never a problem buying my own gas and the glue was easy to reach. I was taught different, in a different time perhaps.


Well hell, what next- implant everyone with a chip? Scan the human being, to get ID, make sure "he can have this" deduct monies from his acct...

Oh wait...they want to do this already. "Gummit gonna protect you" Or perhaps "Gummit wants to control you , make sure you paid taxes on that monies,that firearm won't fire if the chip won't match...make sure you are a
citizen...

It is the principle of the ideas. I mean really it is only a pack of smokes. I am limited to 2 packs of sudaphed because of the meth dealers.

Just got me to thinking -again - how even the seemingly small stuff is affected.

Then again drops of water over time do erode granite...

Jeff White
April 14, 2004, 11:46 PM
sm,
Purchase of tobacco products by underage youths is one of the biggest crisis' of our time. It has to be, the feds are giving out grant money to pay police officers overtime to enforce these laws. :what:

Yep, there is no federal money for overtime to protect our infrastructure when Tom Ridge decides he hasn't been on the news awhile and decides to raise the threat level. Bet there is grant money to pay the police to run stings and catch those evil convenience store clerks selling tobacco to kids.....Heck there are even schools so officers can become certified to run the stings.

Jeff

Carlos
April 14, 2004, 11:49 PM
Sm, don't forget to be flattered that you're 48 and look 35. :rolleyes:

Had a similar experience with a Texaco gas station/store. I fill up my car outside and pay with the card.

While fueling, I go inside and get a beer for later. Checker asked me for my ID. I was as shocked as you (I'm 46 and my hair is as white as Gandolf the Wizard). I pulled out my little mini-wallet that contains drivers license on one side and CHL on the other. This wasn't good enough. She asked me to remove it from the wallet. I was entirely too polite, now that I look back.

The little wench actually walked over to a input device and keyed in my driver's license number. I was shocked to tears, but ....

I need to go back there and have them try this on me again.

:fire:

EDITED TO ADD: So I can laugh my shorts off and get some sort of relief from the rape. :rolleyes:

tc300mag1
April 14, 2004, 11:53 PM
Thats ok i can top this .. I was cared today for buying a Gun Rag..Can you believe that i said what? Told me if i wasnt over 21 since it was a handgun mag i could buy it .. thought i was gonna have a heart attack laughing my Butt off at this guy i said "would it matter if i had a gun on me now"... no but still have to id you for mag

sm
April 15, 2004, 12:03 AM
Yes Sir, I concur.

We have officers in need of new vests for instance...no monies budgeted for such.

There is money for more "important" matters it seems...

Sure glad "gummits" have our priorities straight...:scrutiny:

P95Carry
April 15, 2004, 12:17 AM
Oh Steve - what a classic ... (forgive but) Bwhaha! :D

I am waiting to get carded at the Ponderosa ..... they do ''seniors'' (doncha love that word) ... and some quite good meals in that category ... it's 55 and over. My son says I look OK for age but .. with white chops like a geriatric Labrador (you've seen it too :) ) ... and hair that has had most ''brown'' removed, to be replaced by a sorta ''silveryness'' :p ..... I don't think I'm fooling anyone at 59!.

Other real gas was ... 2 years ago (so OK I was 57 and still white chops) .... took a buddy down to DC to catch a plane after he'd stayed a coupla weeks. Drop into TGI Fridays for a slap-up and a beer ..... this waitress decides she wants to card us ... buddy is about 38, and looks it, at least!

I say ''hey - you're jokin right''?? She says .. ''I gotta card ya''. I could not believe it ... I mean . I could - if VERY optimistic and generous .. just get taken for 45 ish ... tops )on a very good day!). Anyways ... we did the necessary and carried on but sheesh .. that was so absurd it was worthy of Guinness Book of Records.!!:D :D

Carlos
April 15, 2004, 12:24 AM
Yes, it's hilarious later, and SM, as an officer, upholding and enforcing the law, you should be a little bit more tolerant about having to obey a "law", albeit stupid, you were sworn to enforce. Myself, I should have been flattered that I was carded at 46 with my episode with stupidity.

Pain in the butt for everybody, I understand your anger.

And, as far as getting more vests, take a leadership role/stand and get all your fellow officers on the bandwagon to complain to all the right people about protecting "YOUR" lives.

Best wishes. Buy the vest yourself, if you can.

sm
April 15, 2004, 12:49 AM
Carlos,
I am not LEO. Most of the LEO and such I knew as friends and 'assisted' with some matters, have retired and /or moved away.

Yes I am the eldest of 4 sibs and I'm the one that is just now getting a bit of gray in my moustache...very little at that. I take after a family member that didn't gain weight, had very little if any gray, and a full head of hair. My sibs are fat, ugly and look old. :neener:

For years I have forgotton my own B-day . Yes I actually forgot to renew my DL last year in April because of this...So five months later I get a letter from DMV " did you forget something" ...NO big deal the ladies at DMV just laughed.

I haven't celebrated B-days and holidays since I guess '96, "97',98 - heck if I know whenever I was divorced. ... Being single live alone, going to school ...etc.,..and only person that "says" anything is mom...she knows and respects this stuff means nothing to me. I do for her and others...mom just takes me out to eat or something...topic of why is never brought up

I had to do some personal updates on school records, or I would not be aware of this year...I can forget a lot b/t now and then with more exams and labs due.

Funny I went to mom's pharmacist whom has never seen me before, picked up mom's meds some time ago. Filled out the personl check mom had given me. I volunteered to show ID or have him call mom. No need - no problem ! I ask if mom had called - nope. Smart fella...he picked up on the fact I knew his name, correctly spelled the family name, and knew the generic and trade name of meds. Didn't figure me for a crook...dopehead, stolen checks...
Kinda nice to meet a fella with common sense these days...

Chris this is funny... I have a buddy that turned gray early I mean real early in life. He re-married a younger woman. Out to eat with his wife and the waitress brings the check . He counts out exact change and hands to waitress, sticks the tip in her apron pocket.

She comes back and brings him back change!! "Sir you forgot to figure the Senior citizen discount , which also applies to your daughter's meal as well." :D

He is stunned, speechless...waitress walks off, daughter is cracking up, spills her coffee..."daddy can we go to the mall for me a new outfit"...batting eyes..."huh daddy huh". ROFLMAO

Moparmike
April 15, 2004, 01:08 AM
At this point I'm thinking F troop. Might as well ask and further my education. So I ask about going out of state and buying cigarettes , how much can I buy and bring back to AR "legally". Answer : 1 carton and 1 pack. Anymore and I would be "bootlegging"OH MY GOD! I am an accomplice! Do you know how many college kids bring back their 2 cartons of smokes and 2 liters of alcohol from Mexico just for the tax break? Hell, I drove like 6 cartons and 6 liters back from St. Louis (where our flight landed)! Ack! :D


Ok, I am 20 and have about a dozen gray hairs. I dont even smoke, yet I am tempted to see if I can get by without ID. Nevermind that I bought my once-monthly cigars at an EZ-Mart at 16-17 where a friend worked...:uhoh:

Steve, I too am glad that AR is "protecting" us. :scrutiny:


You and I should go shooting sometime.

sm
April 15, 2004, 01:35 AM
Oh Mike , heck I'm a bad influence...

I mean I CCW , buy smokes, pick up ammo,and mags for guns I don't even own. I buy 2 boxes of sudaphed, a quart each of Acetone, Denatured Alcohol, oil lamp fluid. I have hulls and cases rolling around in my truck bed...

I'm either a older returning student running errands.. including stuff to clean paint, save a trip for a friend into town, with sinuses giving me fits and all.

Or I am a threat to society :p

I have 'puter and a ISP...heck I'm on a gun forum and sent monies to various RKBA needs and I'm reading EFAD. Yep I'm a bad boy.

I dunno Mike...I might corrupt you . Plus I don't think the Brickyard likes me much. I "may or may not" *ahem* have passed out pro RKBA stuff once upon a time up there...

I betcha I could cruise through Jeff White's area and get a cup of coffee on this side of the bars with no problem...Brickyard and Praire Grove might not be so kind...;)

Carlos
April 15, 2004, 02:00 AM
Dude, you're a lot like me. I'm from your school, let's put it that way.

At my age, I'm right where you are, where I have little tolerance for stoopid. I'm trying to keep from reacting to the stoopid.

Unfortunately, we have to live through this crap.

Sure, it pisses you off, but we need to learn how to react better to our environment.

I like the humorous approach. I need to learn how to just start laughing at the absurd.

:)

sm
April 15, 2004, 02:21 AM
Oh I laugh at myself - trust me I have a sense of humor. I have to remain viligant and I do learn a lot from folks from here at THR. I do have a very serious concerned side as well.

Hard to feel sad for some folks, difficult to laugh at some folks...gummit just leading the sheep to the cliffs and then over into a jagged rocky rude awakening...too late then.

Sometimes folks don't see the big picture...perhaps using a smaller screen allows some to get a grasp of the basics...

Hey I admit I need stuff broken down at times to understand it.

I figure we have lurkers on THR that are fence sitters, or maybe totally against us. Everyone once in a while one can hope something as trivial as my experience might actually "click on the lightbulb" for these folks. Not a bad thing if a person starts thinking, researching, the truth for themselves...being responsible for themselves and family.

one45auto
April 15, 2004, 04:02 AM
The only time I was asked for ID was last summer, when I went into a convenience store near Jacksonville to purchase a ticket for the Florida lotto. "You have to be eighteen to buy a ticket" she says. Well, I'd left my wallet in the car with my wife and didn't feel like going out to get it since I'd already stood in line long enough, so I debated the point briefly with her. "Look lady, I'm 36....I've got a goatee, and this child standing next to me is my daughter....do I look like a pubescent teenager to you?" However the $#%@ wouldn't budge an inch and insisted on seeing some ID, so in a flash of inspiration I took off my hat. Needless to say she blushed and handed me the ticket. Sheesh....:rolleyes:


My daughter and I got a good laugh out of that one, in fact she still talks about it. :D

tyme
April 15, 2004, 06:38 AM
Can minors buy nicotine patches?

Treylis
April 15, 2004, 07:56 AM
I would have shown 'em a CCW permit, just to be snooty. ;-)

Thats ok i can top this .. I was cared today for buying a Gun Rag..Can you believe that i said what? Told me if i wasnt over 21 since it was a handgun mag i could buy it .. thought i was gonna have a heart attack laughing my Butt off at this guy i said "would it matter if i had a gun on me now"... no but still have to id you for mag

That's absolutely amazing. If it's possible in your state, I'd recommend open carrying and then trying to buy the handgun magazine just for the hilarious experience.

Can minors buy nicotine patches?

I'm almost positive they can't.

spartacus2002
April 15, 2004, 08:44 AM
A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?
-Cicero

It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume– that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert the assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is right under the law, they begin
searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him.
-Henry Louis Mencken

Gotta love it when rules, regs, and fear of liability turn cashiers and small-business clerks into bureaucrats..
:barf:

Battlespace
April 15, 2004, 09:26 AM
I am a 54 YO who also happens to be retired from the military. When I head to the Class VI for some adult beverages I know I will be carded. Not only do they check to assure I have a military ID card, they look at the birth date on it. I have a full beard that is silver, usually wear a Vietnam Veteran hat, but they are still required to check. Two weeks ago my 12 YO daughter was with me and when we left the clerk reminded me that she could not carry any of the packages I had purchased. The clerk said the MP's had cited a customer a few days earlier for providing alcohol to a minor when he let his young son carry a six pack out of the store (helping dad?).

ID_shooting
April 15, 2004, 09:58 AM
I just love the parnoid clerks out there. I havent been carded for smokes in several years, but last week I noticed I was running low on gun cleaning supplies so I head out. I stopped at Wally World for some other things and decide to get a couple boxes of pipe cleaners. I search and search but I can not find them, I finally stopped someone in a vest and they told me they were at the tobacco counter, cool, and off I went, I wait in line behind four people that don't speak english, a young couple that were dressed to the gills paying with food stamps, and a pack of young giggling girls buying makeup. I finally get to the clerk and ask for my pipe cleaners, she looks at me and asks for my ID. My reaction at this point was a mix of :what: :fire: :cuss: :banghead: I asked why, and she said that you had to 18 to buy tobacco products, I looked at her and asked her how much tobacco was in a pipe cleaner. She replied that it was the law and there was nothing she could do, I hit the floor laughing and asked for a manager, well here comes this 18 you girl with manager on her vest, and asked what the issue was, I told her that I didn't believe that I should be carded for pipe cleaners. she said that you have to be 18 to buy them, I told here I allready heard this but didn't think it was true. She replied with sothing about state law, I just rolled my eyes and asked he to tell me which law and how many kids she thought would ever need pipe cleaners. I told her besides, I don't use them to clean pipes, I use them to clean guns. That got both gals wide eyed stand offish. I roduced my ID and the only reaction I got was, oh youre 34, ok, I can sell these to you. I went away and picked up my other stuff, but I have to think to my self, by the time a kid needs a pipe cleaner, isn't it too late to worry about stopping them?

ducktapehero
April 15, 2004, 10:36 AM
What strikes me as funny is that you have to be 21 to buy non alcoholic beer(at least it used to be that way) but can buy cough syrup with alcohol at any age.

Zedicus
April 15, 2004, 10:51 AM
I'll never forget one time an idiot carded my dad (he was 65 at the time).

My dad asked why he was being carded, and the idiot gave the usual line about having to be 21 to buy beer, my dad simply replied with.

"Do I <Insert Random Obcenity> Look like i'm that Young you <Insert Random Obcenity> Moron!!!"

Wish I had a camera then, The look on the guy's face was Priceless...:D

CannibalCrowley
April 15, 2004, 01:07 PM
Most of you are being carded in accordance with the law, so why all the whining? An individual can be fined and even suffer criminal prosecution if he doesn't card someone and that person turns out to be underage. Most companies have their own set of standards on top of the law. Some require an employee to card with an age range based on appearance, while others take the "we card everybody" route. Why get pissy with a clerk just because he's trying to keep his job?

If you don't like getting carded, don't buy the item in question; or find a business with a more liberal carding policy.

TCD
April 15, 2004, 01:16 PM
ok, so last I checked you had to be 18 to buy pellet guns right???


Well ok I'm 19 at the time and look like an average college age kid(medium hair, semi nice clothes, etc)

week1:
So I go into KMart and buy some shotgun slugs. They ask for my ID as they are ringing me up, I pay, everything is cool

week 2: I happen to get my hair dyed with blue highlights(yeah it was a phase)


week 3: I go into the same KMart and ask to buy a pellet gun
them "We can't sell you pellet guns"
me "what???"
them "you heard me, I'm not going to sell it to you"
me "why not???"
them "you have to be 18"
me "I'm 19 smart guy"
them "hmmmmm"
them "let me see your ID"
me "here"
them "when were you born?"
me "can you not read because it says on my ID"
them "fine, just be careful"

this was one of the KMarts that got shut down...

I'm not surprised

Azrael256
April 15, 2004, 01:34 PM
My brother came back from Iraq for a month of leave before going back to Germany. We hit some of the local bars to celebrate, and I noticed something funny. We would both get carded, but he would show his military ID. They would actually read my D/L, but they wouldn't give his more than a passing glance. Pretty cool, IMHO.

Dex Sinister
April 15, 2004, 02:35 PM
Most of you are being carded in accordance with the law, so why all the whining? An individual can be fined and even suffer criminal prosecution if he doesn't card someone and that person turns out to be underage. Most companies have their own set of standards on top of the law. Some require an employee to card with an age range based on appearance, while others take the "we card everybody" route. Why get pissy with a clerk just because he's trying to keep his job?


Perhaps it is because some of us remember when it was thought that when one objected to a store's policies, one was allowed to mention it to the store's employees - so that the employees, as representatives of that store, could communicate that information to their employer. I think maybe it was called communication, but as it's almost a lost art, I could be mistaken.

Perhaps because some of us think that treating employees as if they cannot distinguish 65 year olds from 18 year olds is degrading for the employee, as well as for the customer?

Perhaps because if a majority of people objected to such indignities on the spot, stores would have to revise their policies more in line with reality, because they would know that they annoyed customers?

Perhaps because one does not always have time to sit down and write letters to corporate offices, when one want to register one's displeasure?

Perhaps because the state of being an employee automatically makes one a representative of the company one works for, and at least responsible for transfering customer comments to management when they are communicated by customers?

And perhaps, because the average just-turned-18-min-wage employee would never think to question the "wisdom" of such policies, if they were never confronted with some real live indignation from real live people who object to being treated like cattle, (even when they realize that the 18yo clerk didn't invent the policy.)

But heavens no, we wouldn't want to think that anyone was ever responsible for having to think about the policies they impliment, so we should all be quiet.

Dex }:>=-

Smoke
April 15, 2004, 03:15 PM
Once again I'm reminded that life is good in Bosque County.

The little high school girl behind the counter at the "Stop & Go" where I occasionally buy a can of snuff, calls me Mr. Parks, never asks for I.D.; but then I went to school with her daddy, worked for her Granddad some in highschool. Known the family, well....forever.

Beer store is 3 miles out of town on the Precinct line. Jim owns it. Has had it for years, even before I was "legal". Card me? Hell, he's on the Fair Board with me. Knows all the kids and their familys for miles. Under age kids have to go to the city to try to buy beer here. Jim has volunteered more hours to the Youth Fair and Little League than any other 10 people combined.

Guns? Ammo? Rusty is the manager at the only gun shop/hardware store in town, our kids go to school together. He and I coached T-ball together once. His employees are all locals, everyone knows each other.

Never bought guns or ammo at a Walmart. (30 miles away). Talked to them a few times, left unimpressed. Ammo is cheaper at Rustys store, or at least competitive. I do buy most of my Copenhagen at Sam's. (also 30 miles away) Last time I was there the computer informed the checker of the age requirement...she paused, smirked, and went on with it. Never even asked.

Bosque County Texas, where spray paint is still out on the shelves where anyone can get it, acetone is unsupervised, kids can't buy beer locally (and there is a back door for the Baptists:D ) porn is not available (except on the internet) tobacco? I suspect a lot of straw purchases are made.

Say, wasn't that Joe's kid I saw drive buy with a cigarette? Better call him when I get home....

Smoke

Clean97GTI
April 15, 2004, 03:42 PM
Being carded for certain things is just a CYA for the store selling it. The funny thing is that I hardly ever get carded for smokes or beer (I get carded for harder stuff though) I occasionally get carded for buying ammo, but it doesn't happen more often than it does. The funny thing is that I'm only 21. I just hit "legal" age last August and I hardly ever got carded before then, for things like long gun ammo or smokes. Hell, I rarely get carded going into bars or clubs. I guess the LVMPD has other things they consider more important.

John G
April 15, 2004, 03:46 PM
I'm 28. Wal-mart carded me when I bought a knife-sharpening kit.



I was carded for buying a stone. :banghead:

md2lgyk
April 15, 2004, 04:24 PM
Well, it hasn't happened to me in a while, but my wife was recently carded entering a local adult-beverage-dispensing establishment with two of our daughters (ages 32 and 25). Sure made her feel good!

killermarmot
April 15, 2004, 04:44 PM
I had the mother of all carding experiences just other day (no joke) I was at walmart picking up one of those value boxes of winchester 12ga just can't beat the price and some 40SW well I needed some spray paint for a project I was working on so i grabbed that, figured I'd grab some beer while I was there, just then my roomate calls and wants some cheap cigars so I grab those and bought a game for my PC. So I head up to the main counter with all my age restricted products :rolleyes: put all the stuff down ofcourse I get the usual "gunna have a fun night with all this stuff" comment and then, get this what do I get carded for "this is an aage restricted game title and I need to see ID for his spray paint, we've been having alot of trouble with taggers." :uhoh: I'm looking at the beer and the pistol ammo and wondering if this girl just fell out of a truck but was like, angh alright. Policy is funny, I'm bettin they had just had a meeting about the evils of spray paint and violent video games. ahhh good times :cool:

CannibalCrowley
April 15, 2004, 04:59 PM
Dex Sinister Perhaps it is because some of us remember when it was thought that when one objected to a store's policies, one was allowed to mention it to the store's employees - so that the employees, as representatives of that store, could communicate that information to their employer. I think maybe it was called communication, but as it's almost a lost art, I could be mistaken.
Zedicus "Do I <Insert Random Obcenity> Look like i'm that Young you <Insert Random Obcenity> Moron!!!"
Comments like the one above will only get mentioned to the employer as how a customer was rude and belligerant. Besides, comments made to the business by customers are much less likely to fall on deaf ears.

Perhaps because the state of being an employee automatically makes one a representative of the company one works for, and at least responsible for transfering customer comments to management when they are communicated by customers?

And perhaps, because the average just-turned-18-min-wage employee would never think to question the "wisdom" of such policies, if they were never confronted with some real live indignation from real live people who object to being treated like cattle, (even when they realize that the 18yo clerk didn't invent the policy.)

But heavens no, we wouldn't want to think that anyone was ever responsible for having to think about the policies they impliment, so we should all be quiet.

Well Dex, you might have a couple points there; but only if you apply them across the board. Let's take police for instance. Should we hold them responsible for the laws they have to enforce? Would you bitch out a cop who pulled you over doing 60 in a 25? Should troops be responsible for the wars they fight? If your answers are all yes then at least you're consistent; if not, then why the uneven standards?

Furthermore, some people just don't look their age. I'm 22 and I've been mistaken for as young as 15 and as old as 28. That's a pretty big range and some people just don't want to guess when a wrong one could mean a criminal conviction plus the loss of a job. And it's not just stereotypical teens working as clerks that do this. As an example, if your mother carded me and I told her "I'm over 18 you stupid c*nt" you'd probably consider that rather insulting.

So look at the big picture, these are just people doing their jobs. If you think it's wrong to card people, then lobby to have age restrictions appealed because that's the only way tp avoid it.

sm
April 15, 2004, 05:05 PM
I've worked with the public all my life. I had to observe some legal matters and paperdrill to appease the gummit. So when the customer has $50k cash for a purchase...in a briefcase...it may take 6 or 7 months ...L/A [ I laid the monies aside and he went away with the mdse] .

Known this fella forever, he hated owing anybody anything. He hated writing checks. He used cash. Hard earned cash he had already been taxed on.

Then we have the legalese on everything. In my day I could run to the store to get medicine for a sick sib while mom kept the kid home. No need dragging the kid that is sick , throwing up and all out. I'd jump on a bike, get the meds, and done.

Today, have a 17 yr in need to get something for a sick grandparent, parent, sibling...they cannot do it.

One of my classmates went through this. Single mom with a 15 old kid. Technically did not have his learner' s permit. [ b/t passing the test and actually getting it] . Neighbors are gone to work, can't get ahold of anyone, and the 911 don't work. Kid drives mom to emergency room. I get word at College from the kid. Emergency appendectomy.

I knew the security at the hosptial and explained the deal when he asked about the kid pulling up in the emergency zone. Skirting the edge of legal - perhaps. I doubt seriously if the LEO on this board would bust a kid and the mom for this.

Bottom line: We have too much meddlin in folks lives . Be it gummit, legalese, corporate.

There is a place to be smart and use common sense. In my former life I dealt with a lot of stuff including security and safety of myself and employess.

Sending a 17 yr to the pharmacy to get narcotics for grandma - dying of cancer - and needs her meds, differs from the RN whom steals the Doctors script pad and forges his signature to obtain dope for personal use and to sell.

No problem with a phone call to the Dr ,or grandma. to verify - Just common sense.

Smoke
April 15, 2004, 05:19 PM
Another good story from the home front....

Nephew was in town the other day, big strapping 19 year old. He walks in to the local hardware/gun shop and asks for some .45 Colt ammo. Clerk asks for his ID, says "You must be 21 to buy pistol ammo" . My nephew replied "it's for my Marlin rifle." Manager hears the conversation and tells the clerk its Ok.

No ID. No hassle.

Smoke

chas_martel
April 15, 2004, 05:48 PM
CannibalCrowley,

I think you are the one missing the "big picture"......................

El Tejon
April 15, 2004, 06:15 PM
I was carded for bottled, liquid bread a couple of weeks ago at the ubergrocery near the Fashionable Bachelor Pad. I'm 34 and have a heavy 5 o'clock shadow (how can I have this much hair on the lower portion of my head--maybe move some back up top!).:uhoh: :scrutiny:

I refused to do so (line was long with soccermommies and unruly Jareds and Seths) and requested to see a manager at once. "Store policy" was quickly suspended.:D

CannibalCrowley
April 15, 2004, 11:46 PM
chas_martel CannibalCrowley,
I think you are the one missing the "big picture"......................
Do you plan on elaborating, or are you just going to stay under your bridge.

Carlos
April 16, 2004, 01:11 AM
I'm loving this thread.

Especially the part about being carded for a sharpening stone.

:what:

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
April 16, 2004, 03:53 AM
A few years ago I was in the local E-Z Mart (yeah, it's a BFEast Texas chain) when this kid runs in, fishes a dollar out of his pocket and asks the clerk for a scratch-off lotto ticket. He's something like 12 at the time, looks 12, acts 12. Clerk tears off ticket, gives to kid without batting an eye. I get the Inquisition. I look like Moses...long white hair, beard, driving a '72 VW camper. All I need are stone tablets and a big stick to make it complete.

Kid scratches off ticket at the counter and wins $20. Gives ticket to clerk who scans it and whips out the 20. Kid grins, runs over to candy aisle and starts loading up.

Go figure. Bosque county is starting to sound pretty good.

Regards,
Rabbit.

MeekandMild
April 16, 2004, 10:03 AM
In defense of the store, I recall a sting operation some years ago where the city police hired a professional stage makup artist to doll up a 19 year old to look like he was 50, then they wagged him around to all the convenience stores to buy beer. IIRC they collected over $10,000 of fines from a whole lot of stores before the operation hit the newspapers.

Battlespace
April 17, 2004, 08:30 AM
I got asked last night at a grocery store in a nearby town. The computerized cash register stops when beer is rang up and the clerk has to enter Month/Day/Year of birth before it would advance. She took my word for the dates, but when I asked about it she said it was a real pain and apologized, but said corporate HQ required it be in all their cash registers. Seems they had a bucnh of under age folks buying with fake ID cards and then getting arrested. This now proves to the LEO community the kids used fake ID's to buy. Simply protection for the merchant.

BTW I was purchasing Lamar St Pale Ale. Pretty decent stuff has a good hops taste to it and of all things it is certified to be organic! Never heard of organic beer before, in fact it never occured to me that such things existed.

BlkHawk73
April 17, 2004, 09:16 AM
Just curious what tossing your CCW cards one the counter would have accomplished except for possibly feding your ego? "ooh, look at me, I carry a gun so you better not p!$$ me off." And hey, I've seen elderly women get carded at sports event s when buying alcohol. It's just the policy.

tailgunner
April 17, 2004, 02:24 PM
The local superwalmart here put in self checkout lanes. The local teens started hitting them on day one to buy their beer. It took a couple of months before Wallyworld restricted sales at the self checkouts. Maybe if the computer had asked you your age that would have stopped them!:D

sm
April 17, 2004, 03:31 PM
BlkHawk73,

I don't have an ego to feed. One of my CCW cards actually has a better picture and more clearly states my DOB. It closely resembles my DL in size and shape and happened to be on top.

Only one family member knows for sure I CCW, others "might" suspect I have the licenses. I have a few folks that do know for sure...very close friends whom I shoot with, some LEO and few others.

I do not flaunt nor do I take the responsibity to CCW lightly. I have defended myself, and /or others. I won't get into the use of firearms in this regard - a search of previous posts will suffice.

Pretty much what pax shared on another thread...low profile and need to know basis.

---

Yes I have asked for ID in my business dealings, but once I did obtain the ID I did not ask for it each time...accept as required...It was not for a pack of smokes, nor did this ID need be DL. It may be the required photo ID of a person whom is bonded for Millions of dollars and to satisfy BOTH of our Insurance needs. usually we just verbally exchanged the #...for the paperdrill.

I have done some more research in regard to The Tobacco Board and the enforcment area. I have had others on this forum inform me that they too have done the same. There is a concenus , as has been stated before, in may areas of requiring an ID, underage sales, and the like - it is NOT about the Corportions being fined and having to cover their butt. It is NOT about "protecting the folks that purchase underage". It is NOT about liabilty and such.

IT IS about control and/or money.

There is an area that is quite debatable and not for this thread- that area is Entrapment.

Any of you folks order cigars on-line for personal use or collection?
Any of you folks order tobacco from a website that is run by Native Americans? Couple that with Tobacco stamps ( revenue) the much talked about Internet tax ( revenue).

We have some real matters that need to be addressed as far as security and all. Monies are used for matters IMO that are nothing more for someone's ego trip to flex authority and instill fear to folks for control and money. Be it corporate or individuals.

Supposed "War on Tobacco" - yeah right. The Supposed "War on Terror, Drugs, evil black guns, magazines with more than ten rd capacity...etc.,comes tomind as well.

Personally I don't care if a person uses a credit card to order Cigars on-line, hey maybe he gets a selection not available locally , no problem if that person gets a better price on-line.

But wait, don't folks buy ammo with a credit card on-line from out of state. Have we not "heard" these transactions "might" ruffle some feathers in the name of "Supposed War on Crime, Terror, Drugs...? Well hell if a fellow orders tobacco online, he MUST be in the same mindset as these other evil folks...and what about the revenue the State is missing out on? We had better take note of his credit card transactions...I mean it is for the sake of controlling this individual from being a threat to society. Well lookee here this fellow goes to Mississippi once every two weeks,( gas purchaes on Credit Card) I bet he is buying tobacco cheaper than in his home state, I bet he is selling to minors, I bet he is trying to avoid paying taxes in his home state...best set up a "check point" - "papers citizen".

No way this could be a sales rep with a customers in Mississippi and he just happens to buy tobacco...nah...no way.

To much gummit meddlin IMO. Gummit needs to do what they were set out to do in the Constituition - nothing more. Leave me the hell alone.

six 4 sure
April 18, 2004, 03:07 AM
As a part-time employee of a convenience store, here is my take on the situation. In Illinois the fine for selling to underage customers is (I believe) $500 for tobacco, and $1000 for alcohol. The law requires a valid picture ID to make a purchase. Invalid ID’s include broken, expired, or fake ID. Our store policy is to card anyone looking under 30 for alcohol and 25 for tobacco. However, anyone that’s worked at a convenience store (and has half a brain) gets a feel for when it is and isn’t appropriate to card someone. The oldest person I’ve ever carded was around 28.

As an employee, I think it’s a pain in the butt to card, but you have to CYA. The local PD runs stings on a regular basis. In a town of only 6000 you would be amazed how many teenagers attempt purchases. What’s really disturbing is the number of 20 something’s that never have ID.

I wish I had a dollar every time I’ve had this conversation. Me “That will be $xx.xx and I need to see your ID” customer “I don’t have an ID, but I’m over 18/21” me “well I can’t sell this to you without a valid picture ID” customer “But I’m 18/21 is someone else working?” Me “all employees are required to ask for a valid ID” customer “But I never carry an ID it’s too much of a hassle”. Me “Hassle? Didn’t you drive here? Don’t you have your DL?” Customer “Why do I need to carry my DL I’m 18/21” me “regardless I can’t sell this to you without ID I could loose my job, see all the cameras? This is all on tape and I can’t make this sale.” Usually they leave after this. I know most are lying about their age (everyone is 21+), but a few return later with an ID. After going through this twenty times every Friday and Saturday night you quit trusting anyone that looks under 25. You’d also be surprise at the number of return customers that never have their ID. Those are the ones that get pissy, especially when you tell them “I couldn’t sell this to you last time because you didn’t have ID, and you don’t have one now so I still can’t sell this to you. As soon as you bring in an ID I’ll be happy to let you make this purchase.” You try to be nice, but they just don’t get it. I know teenagers will be teenagers but I get tired of putting up with it for $6.25/ hr while working my way through grad school.

six

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