[Guy B. Meredith]

I am starting this thread so as not to hijack the NRA stereotype thread.

I do really have a concern about the low number of Blacks in recreational shooting and clubs. (Don't get me off on PC with the hyphenated ethnic titles--I grew up in a barrio area where one faction was Mexican American, another Chicanos and another 'we don't speak Spanish here' (Mexican) AMERICANS.) In the case of protecting our rights and freedoms I believe strongly that there is indeed strength in diversity.

I work with quite a few black professionals-mostly liberal-and get the feelling there is an internal bigotry in the black community that African Americans cannot be trusted with firearms. This may be one barrier. And maybe there is an internal stereotype that shooting is a white man's sport and Blacks should stick to sports that involve chasing or throwing balls.

The latter stereotype would easily be shattered for anyone showing up at three of the four clubs I belong to as a very large portion of the participants are pan-Asian. Maybe one or two Latinos, a native American, but few blacks.

And too few women. And too few serious women. There are only two I can think of that I know personally are serious enough competitors/shooters that they can kick a**.

I have thrown out the invitation and good words about the sport to black coworkers, but no response. Once I mentioned Ken Blanchard (who seems to have disappeared from the scene now) and his information on racism in gun laws on his Black Man With a Gun website and I thought the black sales manager and black sales lady in the room were going to faint or soil their undies. If they didn't know me as well as they do I am sure I would have become persona non grata. :rolleyes:

As to women, I am married, my wife doesn't shoot and I don't know if I can get away with tete a tetes at the range. (To be fair, Julie has made a couple of trips to the range and attended two firearms handling and SD classes, but has since lapsed.)

So what to do?

[Josey]

I used to be in law enforcement. I can tell you, most LEOs "of race" are second and sometimes first generation firearms owners. I have close friends who are "ethnic". They are AMAZED at the number of firearms in my collection. I don't have that many. There are several firearms that are hand me downs in a family of LEOs. The time factor is real. A ex-partner told me that blacks haven't been legally recognized as having rights, under legal enforcement for 40 years yet. He explained that minorities are only becoming self-actualized and taking their places in society. The first generation to break barriers have retired and died. The second generation is looking into retirement. The third generation is better educated, more physically fit and financially stable. The disposable income is looking for outlets. Fishing, hunting, old cars, collecting, specialty or niche interests/hobbies are developing. Time will allow for more presence. Finances are improving. Minority retirees are increasing and they will be seeking outlets for their energy and money.

[roscoe]

My feeling is - the more black gun owners and sport shooters there are, the less likely gun laws are to be enacted. The problem is, firearms have been so deminized in the inner-cities, that you really have to push to get past the anti-gun sentiment. There needs to be, in my opinion, a few outspoken black community leaders supporting RKBA.

If that were to happen, we would have to worry about anti-gun legislation a lot less.

[Neva]

I'm lucky, I guess.... I'm a woman, love shooting, love guns, work for pro2A issues.... have lots of female friends who are shooters as well....

I encourage women to shoot, have helped run a New Shooters night that brought a lot of women to it, always make room in every CPL class for a couple of women, do some free in fact.... my daughter shoots, my wedding (in Decmeber, '03 at age 49) was at a gun range and my maid of honor and I both carried... I carry daily... would carry basically 24-7 but I'm a high school science teacher and the law does frown....

I run a pro2A forum and web site as well....

And, BTW, I never worry about my husband showing/teaching/helping other women improve when we're at the range.... I'm proud of him and love the way he slips under everyone's radar and gets them all jazzed up because he can almost always help them show some improvement....

For Christmas and our anniversary (four days apart) he bought me these:

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/michigan/oleg_rem700.sized.jpg

The gun and scope - not Oleg....

Me being a middle aged school teacher and female is one of the main reasons I'm so vocal... I figure people need to realise gun owners are not the stereotype.... we're every-d*mned-body....

[Oleg Volk]

Part of the reason my be how people try to teach newbies, without much regard for the recoil and noise sensitivity. Twoblinks guite to taking newbies shooting (http://albert.achtung.com/rkba/TotheRange.html) is excellent, and I've met people he trained -- they all had a lot of fun and got hooked on the hobby right away.

[Majic]

Speaking from personal knowlege, aside from the inner city blacks (who have been conditioned to be anti-gun by law) a large persentage do own firearms. History just have taught that it's to their best interest to remain private and not make it public knowlege of their owning firearms. Black shooters remain in small groups shooting in obscure places like family or friend's farms or backwoods. Whether it's a preceived or a real emotion, a lot of blacks feel some people see a black man with a gun as a threat. They feel unwelcomed or closely monitored at ranges. The black's game with firearms has always been plinking and hunting. I know of none who takes much of an interest in the handgun action games. Black rifle shooters have their rifles refered to as "deer guns" though they may never hunt. Untill recently if you showed up on a trap and skeet range not carrying a high class double gun you were looked down upon no matter what race you are.
So in summation, there are black gun owners all around you. If you are not in their inner circle this fact may never be revealed to you about them. They have been conditioned to be cautious in allowing others to know of their possesions so not to alarm anyone.
We are out there and you may be amazed at how many of us there really are and what we have collected and have had handed down to us over the ages.

Majic
a black American who has owned, shot, and collected firearms for more than 40 years.

[Neva]

Oleg, I've been lurkin' and occasionally posting for a long time now....

We're very careful with newbies... double plug them, take away the .45 their boyfriend or whatever wants them to shoot and give them something more manageable to work up with, had lots of women around (Jess, me, another dark-haired version of Jess) and Felix, who is gentle but persuasive, always....

[gearbox]

I guess I represent the "Asian-American" class. I'm half Chinese.

Come to think of it, I rarely see many black or brown people when I'm at the range. I've seen a few asians (shooters & employees), but that may partially be due to the range's location (Milpitas: Asiacentral of the south bay).

Upon further recollection, I don't remember seeing a black OR mexican man or woman shooting.

[Stand_Watie]

I have wondered about the seemingly heavy concentration of blacks in one rural, working class pastime (fishing) in comparison to it's companion pastime (hunting) and it occurs to me that some of it may stem from poverty, and the fact that it's probably a lot easier to find a place to fish (even if you don't live on the lake) than it is to find a place to hunt if you're not a landowner. Even people with the same amount of cash might have very different cultural perspectives of large (enough to shoot) land ownership. Moving out to the country may be a sign of "having made it" for one group of people where that "deluxe apartment in the sky" (and yes I realize the Jefferson's was all about sterotypes) is "making it" for other people.

My suggestion for landowners who want to increase the diversity in the shooting/hunting world would be to try to make your land available to them.

Say for example that you work in Dallas, and you have two buddies at work who both make the same $$ amount, and - Van is a recent Vietnamese immigrant and Billy Jack is from Oklahoma. I think it more likely statistically speaking that Billy's got an Uncle with a few acres that he can bang away on any time he feels like driving up there. Van, OTOH, might be interested in getting into it but it's not as convenient for him.

Invite him over to grill some burgers and ask him if he'd like to shoot the ol' .22 at coke cans. This could work for inviting someone to the range also, but it's easier to sneak into it if your range is at your house (it worked for me with my wife's friend's German boyfriend who had never held a firearm before).

I WILL say that I've seen racist recruiting material at the gun show in Tyler (ten years ago) and that is the absolute worst thing for the gun rights movement.

[JohnBT]

Kenn drops in from time to time. He's still organizing. JT

www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72740&highlight=blanchard

"THR's in the Maryland, DC and Virginia area interested in becoming a part of a social organization I am starting for recreational purposes read on."

[Big_R]

I took my brother in law (who is half black) shooting for the first time in his life. He enjoyed it a lot and is looking for his first pistol.

The company I work for has a lot of Hmong employees and a lot of them hunt and own firearms. I've shared a good many stories with a lot of folks, including some who don't seem to fit the Minnesota deer hunter stereotype. One fella hunts white tail with a Glock in 10mm and took a very nice doe last year (I saw the pictures). One middle aged lady asked me for my thoughts on a Taurus Tracker.

I think one of the biggest hinderence is that talking about firearms and hunting is almost a taboo in a lot of workplaces. That's where to start.

Ryan

[Billy the Kid]

Hello friend, in order to help you out as a fellow shooter and recent NRA member im going to bring my fiance with me shooting as much as possible and ge ther into it. She is Chinese, i am white. Also im going to bring my younger brothers and adoptive brother Ray whom is black in order to bring some young, liberal, and nonwhites into the ranges around here :) happy hunting.

[Erich]

You know, I'm always amazed at how diverse a group I see when I go to the Albuquerque city range.

There aren't a lot of African-Americans in New Mexico, but I see a good number of African-Americans at the range - every time I go. Always see some Asian-American brothers and sisters. Hispanic and Native Americans - always a good number there. And, of course, White folks - of Jewish, Christian and Muslim persuasions. Young, middle-aged, old, the occasional same-sex couple. And always a few women.

Really, the range has got to be one of the most diverse places I know of. It always surprises new shooters I bring along, who figure there are just going to be a lot of White men there.

Looks like Albuquerque is doing something right. :)

[Partisan Ranger]

I don't think I've seen black men or women at the range, although I don't really shoot very often.

I have seen quite a few black folks at gun shows, however, in Virginia.

[Model520Fan]

History just have taught that it's to their best interest to remain private and not make it public knowlege of their owning firearms.

I have noticed what I think is the same thing among some Jews. One case was perfectly clear (because the guy said so), and there was another where I knew the individual (female) for a while and found out only when the Jewish club officer mentioned that she had joined the club.

Of course, with some Jews it might be a fear of peer disapproval more than a strategic secrecy. And that may also be true for certain Blacks.

[tiberius]

I see more and more women all the time. Blacks are WAY under-represented though. I think it has to do with stereo-types. They probably don't feel comfortable around (what they assume) are a bunch of rednecks with guns. Outreach to friends and work colleagues is the best long term approach IMHO.

[Tango Sierra]

At the ranges I shoot at I see Blacks every second or third time I go and Hispanics most every time I go. One of the Black shooters was a re-loader that had recently got into .357sig and let me try his Glock 31 and SigPro. Shooting sports is another way to bring down barriers between people of different cultures.

[pax]

A friend of mine bumped into a mutual acquaintance of ours at the range, and was trying to tell me about it. I knew the name but couldn't put a face to it.

Finally, I said flippantly, "Wait, wait! I know who you're talking about -- late middle aged white guy, brownish greyish hair, and a big paunch ... right!?"

I was right. But I still had no idea who he'd bumped into.

:D

pax

Finally, people are all exactly alike. There's no such thing as a race and barely such thing as an ethnic group. If we were dogs, we'd be the same breed. George Bush and an Australian aborigine have fewer differences than a lhasa apso and a toy fox terrier. A Japanese raised in Riyadh would be an Arab. A Zulu raised in New Rochelle would be an orthodontist. -- PJ O'Rourke

[Mikul]

Maybe they're afraid some marketier will label them "tactical."

I occasionally see black people shooting. Guess who they're shooting with? OTHER black people. Let's face it, we all like being with those we have a lot in common with. So if you're white, you probably aren't going to be approached by a lot of black people asking to join you when you go shooting.

It's funny, but I've always noticed a near void of blacks in all outdoor activites: hiking, camping, boating, hunting, skiing (the snow's white, the people are white, it must look like a big cold Klan convention). A lot of black people fish, but all of the ones I've seen or know of are fishing at piers in relatively urban areas.

[Gary H]

Since I shoot in an area with a large A.A. population, it would be logical to expect the range to have a number of black shooters. This is not the case. On the other hand, yesterday, one of my black patients was a competitive shooter and it never occurred to me that he was black and shooting until I read this post. Blacks are definitely under-represented. Interestingly, more and more women are showing up at the range. Last week I was at my local indoor range as the only single male shooting. There were at least six women shooting. Some of them were much more skilled than I.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Van is a recent Vietnamese immigrant and Billy Jack is from Oklahoma

Well, Ol' Billy Jack should do the right thing and invite Van to go shooting with him at the uncle's place. Maybe an invitation to pop a few bunnies or tree rats if Van was really interested. :cool:

I think everyone that has the resources should invite a newbie plinking/ shooting, and work to create the ?/comraderie/? that is described in this thread.

Point taken

[dischord]

Many of the fellow-hunters I've bumped into in the field here in Virginia have been black men (I hunt in Faquier, Stafford, Spotsy, Caroline and King George). OTOH, they've always been senior citizens -- I've never run into a young black hunter.

Oh, and they've always been hunting small game with .22s, FWIW.

[Gary H]

...almost forgot..

Please stop using the word "diversity." It is like chalk on the chalk board. It is a word that has a whole philosophy behind it. There must be a better word.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Majic,

Thanks for the insight. It sort of goes along with what I suspected. Now to figure how to get around the biases. I am in the SF Bay area and most of the blacks I currently know are professionals or live in what are considered upscale neighborhoods.

gearbox,

Most of the black shooters I know in the Bay area are LEO or ex LEO. The LEO practices on the IPSC range out at Richmond where I have worked as RO and the ex LEOs participate in PPC at the Chabot Gun Club (prettiest range around) in Castro Valley.

A couple of members of the Diablo Action Pistol Club in Concord are of the brown persuasion and people often mistake me for another. Pan-Asians are extemely well represented at the Richmond and Concord clubs.

When I was working the firing line as a safety officer at Chabot I saw perhaps less than 10 blacks in all.

Most women were with macho boy friends. I am not optimistic about their having a good introduction.

Erich,

Looks like there is something that Albuquerque is doing right and I'd like to be able to duplicate it elsewhere to give us more visibility on the positive side.

I had some other comments but they are stories that belong in another thread.

[geekWithA.45]

Just from a casual look around on an indoor range in NJ, on any given crowded day:

There's 14 lanes, all full with say, an average of 2 shooters. Let's call it 30 shooters just for an even number.

There's usually:

2 or 3 black males
1 or 2 black females.
1 or 2 asian males
1 or 2 asian females
1 or 2 hispanic males
1 or 2 hispanic females
2 or 3 white females
and about 15 middle aged white males.

Seems pretty diverse to me.

[pax]

Gary H,

My sig.

pax

Diversity has no inherent value, but is simply a fact of life, which may be employed or endured either well or badly. My circle of friends is diverse. So is my household garbage. -- Bruce Thompson

[Erich]

. . . but having a diverse group (sorry if you don't like the word, but it's useful in this context) of folks involved in shooting does benefit those of us who want shooting sports to have as broad a constituency as possible.

The more shooters we have (spread across different backgrounds, ideologies, political parties, fraternal lodges, whatever), the better-equipped we are as a movement to deal with the stupidity of the gun-grabbers.

Plus, mastery of guns means a person has an increased likelihood of being able to control his destiny and thus be free. I want to live in a free country, and part of that requires everybody to be free (and able to control his/her own destiny).

I like seeing diversity at the range, and I think it has inherent value to us as shooters and as Americans.

[srv656s]

I wonder how diverse this site is?

I'm Chinese, and have ever only seen one black guy at the range... never any other Chinese...

Shawn

[Guy B. Meredith]

Neva.

What is the best way to begin to get women to the range? Unlike Skunk, Twoblink and others I am not into the social scene and most women I meet and work with are (gasp) saleswomen. My stereotype of saleswomen is not really complementary and I feel like they need a lot of coaching to be serious and safe on the range. Again, the one on one time needed there might cause marital stress.

I now avoid mentioning firearms at customer sites (except PIXAR where the admin is a new shooter--and pan-Asian) as my manager was asked by one lady at a large company to make sure I was never sent to the site again. I do believe this was because I mentioned that I would be competing in the International Revolver Championship match.

Once women are at the range I try to make the experience as positive as possible with the hopes they will not only come back, but will be excited enough to bring a friend. Unfortuantely most women are accompanied by boyfriends, many of whom are macho clods. I always have to make sort of like a ventriloquist with guess who as the dummy to pass along information to the female visitor without stepping on the male egos.

Gary H,

I hate PC too and am using it in a sarcastic way. Mind control mantras make me want to :barf:

On the other hand, when dealing with people it is necessary to use vocabulary they understand in order to communicate effectively. :rolleyes:

[BobCat]

Of four new members at an orientation I held after the match Saturday, we had two middle-aged white guys, one Black police detective, and a Jewish guy (head orgainzer at temple - as membership director I see where people work). So - including me, that's at least two Jews in the club (and there really are more, I just can't think of individuals offhand).

One of the highest-scoring shooters in our 60-shot prone match is a gray-haired lady who just joined last year. She shot a 600-44X at a recent match - perfect score, and 44 out of 60 in the X ring, at 300 yards prone. Way to go, Grace!

While I strongly agree we need more people of all (ethnic?) backgrounds, I'm more concerned that we have too few young people. The average age of people on the line at the Highpower match at our club is probably 55. Maybe the younger people just don't care for Highpower.... I hope they're involved, just shooting IDPA or something more modern.

Purrrs,
BobCat

[atek3]

I live in the bay area...a VERY diverse place. The ranges I shoot at are mostly OWM's (old white men). There is this one AA who shoots benchrest. The Highpower matches I go to have one hispanic and maybe 2 asians. IPSC seems a bit better, 3 asians maybe. The public line seems to attract a more diverse audience, however, none of the 'diverse' elements seem to have any interest in training or competition, of course neither do the whites :) so I guess that isn't a valid estimate of anything.

atek3

[Guy B. Meredith]

atek3,

Which range do you frequent?

[Trebor]

We shooters need to be as all inclusive as possible because gun rights are civil rights and the more people who realize that, the better.

[atek3]

most but richmond and chabot mainly

[Typhoon]

I wonder how diverse this site is? I'm Chinese, and have ever only seen one black guy at the range... never any other Chinese...

Well, I took a colleague from work last weekend to the range (happens to be Chinese...) for the second time.

First time, she did well with my 9mm Beretta. This time (heeding the advise that newbies should start small) I rented a .22. She shot well with it, but thought it was BOORING!!!.

Loved the Springfield 1911, though... Shot it well...

Another convert... Yeah...

Friends are where you find them...

Andrea

[twoblink]

If you want to see more women at the range...

YOU BRING THEM!!:o

[Cliff]

Last night I finished up the first part of a basic pistol class. The class consisted of two black males, two black females. They were hanging on every word, enjoyed the class immensely. Besides the basic mechanics of pistol shooting, they were introduced to a bit of the gun culture regarding different types of pistols,2A/RKBA issues, and the responsibilities of being a gunowner,the shooting sports, and overall dispelling all the myths they had heard and seen on TV and the movies.
Range qualifications will be this coming Sunday and all four students are pumped. All four will be joining our club, at least 3 will be joining the NRA, and I firmly believe 3 out of the 4 will become active shooters. Looking forward to seeing that s**t eating grin come over their faces when they take that first shot.:D
When we started the class the evening before, their main overall purpose was personal protection. By the time we finished last night, they had been exposed to a whole wide world they had never seen or heard of before.

Three more NRA members who JUST HAPPEN to be black. I'm just happy to do my job in getting more PEOPLE exposed to what we do, and what we are in a positive way.:D

[Skunkabilly]

If anything, Asians are over-represented in the shooting sports. At IPSC I have to shoot with the White guys because I don't speak Tagalog :D

As for being a Hyphenated-American, I describe myself as a Chinese-American. Chinese = adjective. American = noun.

It's like saying I carry a two-tone 9mm Beretta. The thing that matters is it's a Beretta, but I'm just being more descriptive so you have a better idea of what it is.

If society were colorblind all our guns would be matte black :barf: Diversity = two-tone here, carbon fiber there, titanium here.... :D

The weirdest thing about shooting is I found out that the only place you'll see an equal number of white guy/Asian girl and Asian guy/White girl couples is at the shooting range. I have no clue why--I'm a computer technician, not a sociologist :o

Typhoon, which range do you shoot at??? Are you the Andrea with the old school blued Beretta with the heel release???

[RangerHAAF]

Black, NRA-Benefactor Life members, like myself, who actually attend NRA conventions are as rare as hens teeth.

I grew up in small town Alabama. As a young boy I hunted birds and squirrels with BB guns, pellet guns and 22 rifles. I grew up in the 1970's and The President that made the most impression on me and my peers was Ronald Reagan; who radiated common sense and pragmatism. Most of my school peers(both black and white) were at least exposed to the shooting sports by the men of their respective families; grandfathers, uncles, fathers or family friends.

For example, I use to go with my grandfather to run his rabbit dogs in the country, now today very few men that I know still hunt rabbits. The environment that supported rabbits changed from where there used to be a lot of vegatable farming going on to one where the main type of farming was and is cotton farming. Most of the children( my uncles who are in their late 50's and early 60's) of these farmers moved to the big cities like Atlanta to pursue jobs and homes and have basically forgotten where they came from.

In general, most black males have never had the experiences that I have because they have been raised by their mothers in an urban environment in single parent homes where there is no concept or tradition with rifles or hunting. I was fortunate to have men in my family who took an interest in and nurtured my childhood development towards hunting, an appreciation of the woods and outdoors, and the importance of the 2nd Amendment.

I think that the desire to hunt and kill for sport is embedded in all young boys but the circumstances that lead to the development and practice of this desire is held in check by the environment that young men grow up in.

The problem here is nurturing definitely overcoming nature. The desire is there but the chances to act on it are not.

[Tom Bri]

A Black guy hunts my Dad's farm every fall. I don't know how they hooked up. I think he is bow hunting, not gun. But there are certainly some around if you look.

[Gary H]

In general, most black males have never had the experiences that I have because they have been raised by their mothers in an urban environment in single parent homes where there is no concept or tradition with rifles or hunting. I was fortunate to have men in my family who took an interest in and nurtured my childhood development towards hunting, an appreciation of the woods and outdoors, and the importance of the 2nd Amendment.

Discussion over..

This unfortunate fact is why those that care in the black community have been rallying to encourage young males to be more responsible with regards to their involvement with young women.

[Majic]

What RangerHAAF said is true of single moms. They do have their hands full, but the bigger issue is where they live. Those in the cities, where you will find most of them, just only have the negative aspect of the firearm taught to them by the streets and the media. Those who chose to stay in the country, well as they say.....country folk will be country folk. They live in the traditional gun culture area where hunting is the norm for sport or necessacity. Just about every country boy is waiting on the start of hunting season, while those in the cities haven't the first idea that a season actually exist.
It is those who live in the cities that we have to expose to the real world of firearms. The larger the city, ususally the less they have of any positive exposure.
I for one am glad that others reconize this and this thread may open some eyes. I knew some had experienced blacks shooting, but like I posted earlier, you have to be in their inner circle or see them afield. Others I would figure just wouldn't have the opportunity to observe this. You just won't see a lot of blacks showing up at formal shooting ranges. If you could have an informal range somewhere out in the country you would probably draw a much larger number of black shooters. If there was a way to ease the tension and show that they are truly welcomed at the range then the numbers may change. I have taken many to the range. In time they enjoyed themselves, but very few would actually go back unless they knew I would be there also. The trick is to change the mindset, but I have no idea on how to accomplish that even though I still try. Hopefully this thread will come up with ideas and suggestions that could possibly work.

[Typhoon]

Typhoon, which range do you shoot at??? Are you the Andrea with the old school blued Beretta with the heel release???

Nyet, Skunkabilly, the Beretta in question is a 92FS stainless w/ black Hogue grips and Trijicon sights.

The range in question was LAX range last Friday evening. My colleague and I had a NetWare to Windows conversion that night, so we put in a bit of shooting time before work. Does wonders for stress...

Still trying to get her to call Brett for an ITTS class. I may succeed someday...

Re: RangerHAAF and the nature vs. nurture argument...

Just from a personal perspective, had I not had the influence of my Dad, Granddad and various other cousins, etc. it is likely that I would have not been too receptive to shooting.

Values are learned...

Andrea

[Drjones]

Well, the NAACP thinks that blacks (and probably other minorities)should not own firearms.

[Cyberdyne systems]

the part of California where I live has a lot of East Indian & Pakistani people, also lots of Hispanic farm workers, but I have never ever seen an Indian or Pakistani at the shooting range?? but I have seen Hispanics at the range, but not often, usually only during hunting season, I have only seen Blacks at the range maybe 2 or 3 tmes in the last 20 years? but the Black community is small in my area, except from the local Military installation, but they dont go to the range.

I do see lots HMONG immigrants at the range, they seem to like guns a lot?
they usually like hunting firearms. Probably because they were hunters back home in Laos? :cool:

[raz-0]

My local club seems to have a number of black members, but not a lot of them participate heavily in the organized events. Our USPSA events do get a number of regular and enthusiastic black participants, but they are USPSA members and not club members.

We do get a LOT of asian participation though. Interest there seems to be USPSA and Steel Challenge, then smallbore. We also get a resonable number of hispanic folks.

females are probably the least represented in events, minority females are practically non-existant at events. (I'd say non-existant, but I don't get out to all of the organized events)

As for club politics, well anyone but white guys over 45 are REAL scarce there.

The closest parallel I can thnk of in makeup besides age and the number of women is test and tune night at our local drag racing establishment.

[444]

I have never met a black man (or woman) that seemed interested enough in shooting to invite to some kind of formal match. I certainly know black people that own firearms and have invited them to shoot with me although none have taken me up on it. This doesn't surprise me and has nothing to do with race: I invite people to shoot all the time and very few ever take me up on it. If they don't want to just go out and shoot, it would surprise me that they would want to compete.
Asians on the other hand are seen all the time at the various shooting events I attend. They seem to love shooting and firearms as much as anyone else and they are very active in competitive action pistol shooting.
I see very few women at the shooting events I participate in, but a few do show up and do quite well.
The bottom line is that they are welcome to attend and don't. That doesn't make them different from millions of other people out there that don't participate in formal shooting competition. In fact I am sure the majority of people on this board who are firearms enthusiests don't.

[Guy B. Meredith]

444,

You are probably correct in many ways. I am not so sure about the gun ownership around the SF Bay area amongst non elite liberals--at least not overt.

It is certainly not necessary to compete to support firearms freedom, but in particular each bullseye shooter, PPC shooter, bench rest, CAS, youth rifle, or any other low testoterone recreation gives us valuable visibility and credibility as 'just plain folk' worth protecting when laws are made.

Helps keep down the tendency towards the bigotry that we are part of a criminal or dangerous element.

[Monkeyleg]

As far as I know, there are absolutely no black members of the gun club I belong to. The racist mentality of many of the members probably has much to do with that.

However, at the indoor ranges here in the city, blacks and Hispanics make up nearly 50% of the shooters. And I'm not talking "gangsta" types, but many serious shooters who know their gear.

Most are in their twenties or thirties, although I do see some people closer to my age (53), which may validate a point raised earlier about disposable income amongst younger minorities.

Given that Milwaukee is one of the most segregated cities in the country, I suspect that minority shooters may be a bit uncomfortable venturing out into the lilly-white suburbs to shoot outdoors.

[Drjones]

Based on my experiences, many THR'ers seem to be of Asian decent.

As much as I hate to say "we should include _____ because of their skin color," we should try to get more blacks involved wherever possible, as it would in fact be advantageous to us politically.

Eeeewww.....*shudder* I feel so slimy for having said what I just said.

Is that bad? :(

Yuck...I'm gonna go shower...BRB

[Barbara]

http://www.myrahforcongress.com/gallery.php

How do you like that? She's running against Dale Kildee who ain't exactly known for his pro-gun philosophy.

[Beetle Bailey]

A few months back, I was at my local shooting range (about 1/2 hour drive from downtown Los Angeles) and met an older African American man. He was asking about my spotting scope and we got to talking. He was there with his two nephews because he likes to spend time with them teaching them responsibilities (BTW the two nephews were pretty good with the leveraction rifles). Thing is, I've seen and met a few African Americans at that range, but that one time was the only time I saw a family shooting together.

We shooters need to be as all inclusive as possible because gun rights are civil rights and the more people who realize that, the better.

Amen.

BTW, I saw a special on CAS on cable television and former professional basketball star Kareem Abdul-Jabber was present. He said he was trying to get more African Americans involved in CAS and part of the reason was to make them more aware of their history and give them other role-models to follow, as an alternative to looking up to rap artists.

[Shanghai McCoy]

As far as getting women into shooting your best bet is to take them.My PHD geogeek wife had never shot before we got married.After she tried it she became hooked on rifles and pistols.Nowadays we mostly shoot muzzleloaders.BTW,she shot her first deer with a 50 cal sidelock.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Barbara,

AAArrrrrgggghhhh! Could we possibly encourage her to move to the SF Bay area? Maybe replace Feinstein, Boxer or one of the others? PLEASE!? (She does wear safety glasses except at photo sessions, right?)


Kareem Abdul-Jabber in CAS? Fantastic!

CAS is probably one of the best entry points for most non shooters because of the pagentry. Problem is that it is quite expensive relative to some other shooting activities. I would sure need to build up to it bit by bit. That pushes the sport the those dedicating their disposable income to the one sport, rich people or as mentioned before older people with more disposable income.

But it is one heck of a good family draw. And the idea of being able to use it to 'seduce' non shooters might just be the justification I need. :D

[Skunkabilly]

>> Drjones
>> Based on my experiences, many THR'ers seem to be of Asian decent. <<

http://www.skunkabilly.com/images/tactical/thrsacramento.jpg

Gee what makes you think that??? :confused:

:evil:

[Majic]

I think that CAS would be one of the cheapest events to get your feet wet. Single action revolvers are some of the cheapest handguns on the market. The shooting isn't about emptying mags as fast as possible so ammo cost is held down. Now as you get deeper involved having the shotgun, rifle, accessories, and the period clothes will cost, but it's not requied for just starting out.

[atek3]

I was at a range in the bay area and down the line were 3 or 4 gangsta' types with quite the variety of weaponry. Lorcins, a glock, an AR, and get this an H&K P7, the first I´d seen. So I asked him what he thought of it, and he had NO idea about it, he even asked me what I knew about it. He let me shoot it (great gun BTW). I didn´t really think it wise to ask about the registration status of his AR :) . Who knows, maybe they were clueless with poor taste in firearms (lorcin :barf: ).

atek3

[Guy B. Meredith]

Unfortunately the gangsta thing is part of the gun ownership stereotype I think. Trader's in San Leandro is a well known shop and the gangsta types are often two to three deep along the counter.

On a positive note, THR must emit some sort of vibrations as when I was at the Chabot pistol range this morning there were five African Americans which meant almost half the population on the pistol line that time of the morning. Now this is something unusual in my experience here.

Two were a father and his eight year old son. They had just begun shooting in January. I told them about other recreation and encouraged them to try it.

I really wish that I had made time to get into more conversation with all the black shooters to learn of the level of interest, original inducement to become interested, etc. but I was on a quickie shoot and had to get back to company at home.

Been thinking about that comment above that the ethnic groups from India and Pakistan also don't seem to get involved. There is a big population of those ethnic groups around the SF Bay area and I really cannot remember more than a couple ever being at the range.

Well, that's another nut to crack.

[Drjones]

All:

Please note that the pic posted by Skunk was taken in front of a Chinese restaurant.

:)

[Typhoon]

Since I was "outed" as a shooter at my place of work, I have had numerous folks of all backrounds consulting me...

Representative questions:

"What gun should I own? I have a .357 Magnum that I inherited from Dad, but I don't like shooting it because it's too loud. But I still keep it for 'protection'." I asked when did she last shoot it. Answer, "Four years ago."

"I have a Glock ###, but it never practice with it. But it's OK."

"Well, I own one, but I keep it locked up in the closet and the ammo is still in its unopened box." Uh-huh. I'm sure when the BadGuy shows up at the door at 3:00 am, he/she/it will wait around for you to load....

Owning guns seems to not be a big issue. Getting owners into training is. The aforementioned folks were of multiple races and backgrounds. How do you get folks to realize that self-defense is a personal responsibility? Like everything else?

[Guy B. Meredith]

Uh oh. My hot button there, Typhoon, is the assumption that guns are for violent pursuits. How about pointing them to local safey classes and non violent recreation?

I know I'm marching against the tide among anti's and firearms owners alike, but in my book SD is a side note with negative connotations. I prefer to induce people to become involved for reasons that don't have the potential for making them feel they are involved in something slightly evil or dirty.

I also have a problem with depending on the 2nd Amendment to justify firearms ownership. Should not need justification for any pursuit not detrimental to others. Should stand on it's own merits. I feel that the more people who just plain enjoy shooting the less we will need to argue legal views of a sentence in the Bill of Rights.

[Typhoon]

Your point is well taken.

My personal training with handguns is for self defense. That is in no way meant to say that handguns cannot be used for some excellent sport and personal challenge. The same can be said for long guns.

I do not advocate the exclusive use for guns as self defense tools. On the other hand, I do not fail to recognize their potential use for the same.

Room for all...

[Guy B. Meredith]

Yup. My 686+ with moonclips of Federal Hydra-shok migrate to the bedroom each night just because it would be downright stupid not to have my recreational equipment available if it could be used to save our lives. Would do the same thing with a cricket bat if I played and did not shoot. ;)

[Majic]

There lies one of the biggest problems with those not understanding firearms (handguns in particular). All they see or hear is of the violent usage of them and never consider them for recreational usage. They go to a range and all the big targets (something a beginner will first go for) are silhouettes of a man. Then they watch people rapidly firing at these targets. What ideas do you think this impresses upon them?
I know some shooters only see the handgun as a defensive tool and you can see them train diligently with them. I think it's a shame they have this limited view, but to each their own. The handgun can also be used for sport, fun, art, and just plain enjoyment. If we could show people this then we may turn the tide. Every time a trigger is pulled no one has to die or get hurt. It can create grins and giggles. That is the point we should be getting out to the non-shooters.

[NIGHTWATCH]

http://66.96.177.64/picture_hosting/web_pages/paternoster/spice.gif

[Guy B. Meredith]

NIGHTWATCH,

That's sick. Don't let the antis get that. They will probably take it serious and be looking fo shotgunners when they go to the Olympics. Worse they will probably have shotguns banned or confiscated until after the Olympics.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++


I am anxious to get on Kenn Blanchard's new site to see how he is doing it. He is apparently including but not focusing on shooting sports as one of a variety of offered outings.

[Mannlicher]

I think you are making way to much out of this. Shooting is just not a 'girl' thing. Weapons, throughout history, have been 'guy' things. As for ethnicity and participation in shooting sports, that might bear looking at,but again, regardless of how it is now, its not that big a deal.

[Guy B. Meredith]

The concern is that the sports need more participants to deflate the bigoted images portrayed when laws are passed. Women and ethnic groups are two that are not involved enough and as represented by the media, Million Moms and all, are two groups that feel most threatened by firearms availability.

Basically, if more of the population were involved they could provide a broader support when "sensible" gun laws that restrict honest citizens and do nothing to deter criminals are contemplated. More people would feel the pain of such laws and discourage that line of thought.

But my thoughts have been pretty thoroughly explored at this point and I've received the insight I asked for.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Additional thoughts: antis see white gun owners as KKK rednecks, black gun owners as gangstas.

I perceive that the black community in particular is more worried about gangstas than rednecks. I also perceive an internal prejudice that blacks are not competent to own guns. Maybe because of a fear the black gun owners will end up violent or maybe fear that black gun owners are just like wimpy women that are just going to have the gun taken from them and used against them.

I think that the only cure for these prejudices is positive role models in the form of responsible black gun owners. The same goes for competent female gun owners.

I also feel sad for people who are deprived of a great sport because of social stigma.

[DrDremel]

Well you can at best expect to see a similar mix to the population. Blacks make up 10% of the population, So it would be illogical to expect to see more than that. Also Shooting is usually an activity passed on from generation to generation. Sure there are new shooters but that is a minority of shooters. Since blacks have been discouraged from owning firearms through legal and political means up until the last 30-40 years depending on the locale, it will take a while for them to come in to the sport. Also since the black population is more urban nationally, firearms are not a part of the culture.

[Majic]

No disrespect DrDremel, but you really need to come south and see how your figures reflect on the black population here.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Overall the pecentage would be maybe 10%, but in this area (Oakland, CA) as in Majic's neck of the woods there is a heavier concentration of black citizens.

We also have a huge concentration of east Indian and Pakistani in the who are seldom at the range. On the other hand the equally huge concentration of pan-asians are omni-present at action matches and at the range.

[Jeeper]

USPSA is full of Filipinos

At the club match i shot 2 days ago had 4 black guys and 2 asian guys. This was out of about 15 people. Some places just have more but in general there are sports that dont attract a lot of diversity. one reason is socio economic. the average income for blacks is less which is why you dont see as many in higher costing sport and activities. It is just like skiing. You dont see many there due to cost. You see a ton of asians there(mainly japanese) because of the income of the culture.

[atek3]

Jeeper, you're right on the filipino thing, in the bay area its big stuff.

wierd, maybe it has something to do with the phillipines "lax gun laws"?

atek3

[DRZinn]

It certainly holds true here in SoCal, at least everywhere I've been. But I've done my part by taking my Brazilian wife and some friends of ours, mostly Brazilian. (Although they're still more white than hispanic, so maybe they don't count.)

[Skunkabilly]

Lotsa Filipinos at USPSA out here. I shoot with the White folks because I don't know Tagalog :evil:

[DrDremel]

Majjic, I live 25 miles North of Detroit. 85% black approx. The 10% is from the Census bureau. You might live in an area with a large black population but nationally, it is about 10%.

No offence was taken, just clarifying my statement.

Skunk, my wife is Filipino. For some reason none of here family will go shooting. But in the Philippines, ther is a huge gun culture, most likely out of having unrest every 10-20 years.

[Majic]

DrDremel,
I wasn't disputing your figures, just your analogy. By your referring to your locale (Detroit) I can understand what you are saying, but it doesn't quite hold true down here in the south. Even the urban areas aren't as restrictive with firearms as a lot of the northern areas and blacks are active shooters. You generally won't see them mixed with the other races shooting, but believe me there are a lot of them out enjoying the sport.

[Stand_Watie]

DrDremel,
I wasn't disputing your figures, just your analogy. By your referring to your locale (Detroit) I can understand what you are saying, but it doesn't quite hold true down here in the south. Even the urban areas aren't as restrictive with firearms as a lot of the northern areas and blacks are active shooters. You generally won't see them mixed with the other races shooting, but believe me there are a lot of them out enjoying the sport.

I know I have noticed a cultural difference not just overall between Michigan and the south (specifically Texas and Mississippi where I've actually lived) but even more notably between blacks in Michigan and in Texas (and the rest of the deep south that I've driven through). As an example, meeting a black guy driving an elderly pickup truck and wearing bib overalls or carharts was an unusual occurence in Michigan, but is run-of-the-mill here in Texas. Of course these are the guys that are more likely to have grown up in a shooting/hunting culture.

I had attributed that to there currently being a stronger rural/small town culture in the deep south, and the black population in Michigan (as well as the transplanted southern white population, as my grandparents were) having largely arrived there as a job seeking move from the south during the depression to work in the industrial sector.

In the late 30's they were running ads in newspapers all over the south desperately seeking strong backs to work in the steel mills in Michigan. Entire extended families of sharecroppers were packing up their bags and even having their bus tickets paid for by the companies that needed help badly. I believe this was also common in Illinois, Ohio, northern Indiana and Wisconsin. I discovered this little bit of American history talking with an elderly black man in east Dallas about ten years back who had packed up and moved to Michigan, and worked in the same foundry with my grandad for forty years, who then had moved back to Dallas after retiring.

[atek3]

In the late 30's they were running ads in newspapers all over the south desperately seeking strong backs to work in the steel mills in Michigan

backs or b(l)acks? was that a freudian slip or what :)

atek3

[DrDremel]

You are right about the overalls and pick-up. I have never seen that around here. But I think that is more cultural than race. In the suburbs, you don't see many caucasian people dressed that way either.

[shep854]

Very interesting thread. At the FOP Range, we have black and female shooters, and everyone that I've seen try to make them feel comfortable and welcome. Regarding ownership of guns by blacks, it's very common here in Alabama. After the recent murder of three officers by a thug using an SKS, there was no outcry in the community to ban these rifles. The most likely reason is that they are so common in black homes.

As far as cultural biases, remember that gun control is racist in its origins and practice.

[cxm]

What in the wide world of sports is a "PAN-ASIAN?"

Guess I'm old... I still remember when we were all Americans.

SIGH!!

That may be a big part of the problems...

Oh well....

Chuck

[Majic]

Guess I'm old... I still remember when we were all Americans.
You can't be but so old. For most of our country's history the original American was known as the Indian.

[YammyMonkey]

A really good friend of mine is black and he and his family have been gun owners and hunters for many, many years. He grew up just outside LA IIRC and has about an even number of "defensive" and "sporting" guns. Our shooting interests are a lot alike, anything from practical pistol/rifle to big game, bird hunting, sporting clays, whatever. His wife, also black and from the same area would come out shooting with us as well; until she got pregnant that is.

I think it takes a lot of nurture from the gun owning public to keep the opinions of us and firearms positive, especially in the poorer communities be they black, white, brown, red, green or blue.

As another interesting aside my wife worked for Child Protective Services in Pensacola, FL for a while and a lot of the other females she worked with were avid gun owners. My wife loves to go shoot the pistols. Not so fond of having a long gun kick her in the shoulder though. I should probably get the 10/22 sighted in since she doesn't even like the recoil from my AR.:what:

[El Tejon]

I'm all for diversity. I attempt to date women of all ethnicities.:D And they all say "No!" See, the nation can come together.:D

Well, everyone is talking about "at my range, my gun store, my city, blah, blah, blah", and no is talking about "what to do." Hmmm, what to do, what to do, oh, I know--DO SOMETHING! GO INVITE A BLACK DUDE TO GO SHOOTING! :cool:

[YammyMonkey]

DO SOMETHING! GO INVITE A BLACK DUDE TO GO SHOOTING!

I DID! And we took his wife with us too. And yes, she did shoot, and she liked it!

[Johnson]

With the wide variety of firearms I have available to me, diversity is not a problem.

[jeff-10]

Ranges in South Florida are full of blacks and latinos. Don't know about the games because I do not compete. You are hard pressed to find a latin guy in South Florida that doesn't own a handgun. I couldn't say the same for the white guys I know.

[Skunkabilly]

What in the wide world of sports is a "PAN-ASIAN?"

Yeah, last I checked, we used woks.... :neener:

Guess I'm old... I still remember when we were all Americans.
[snip]
That may be a big part of the problems...


Nope. THR has Germans, Norwegians, Filipinos, Israelis, et cetera, on this board as well. How is that a problem?

[Neva]

Yammy - get her a Beretta Storm... big fun to shoot and a pleasure as far as recoil, etc... smaller, too, so a woman can get wrapped around it....

Diversity? I want to turn everybody out there into a gun lover, regardless of ethnicity.... safety in numbers, as they say....

:cool:

[MP5]

Food for thought vis-a-vis race and shooting sports:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/12/naacp.guns.02/
http://www.csgv.org/news/headlines/03_04_04_naacpsbig.cfm

The NAACP is a major enemy of the RKBA. Fortunately, despite efforts of such groups to disarm their constituencies, at my local range I see women, blacks, Hispanics, etc. on a regular basis.

[benEzra]

Friend of mine is a sergeant in the Marine Corps, and he and his wife are both shooters (both African-American). I sent a lot of gun magazines his way while he was recently in the sandbox.

[Frohickey]

Yeah... lack of diversity in shooting sports.

I see lots of Asians, but where are all the whites that like to shoot guns? :p

[Duke of Lawnchair]

...but where are all the whites that like to shoot guns?

They're too busy trying to become diversified. :neener:

[manwithoutahome]

Here in Oregon, central and eastern there aren't that many people from different backgrounds (I don't like the word "race" any more).

I would love to see more people of all cultures/backgrounds get into firearms. That's why I like Kenn Blanchard and his pics and Shunks pics on the board (I think it's shunk or shunkabilly?).

I would also like to see more women get into the mix. And especially women of different cultures than just the white women. There is nothing sexier than seeing a black women or especially an asian women with a gun :D.

That reminds me, I don't think that I've ever seen a black or asian women with one of those "evil" guns on the front of the Blue Press. That could go along way into getting women of different cultures into shooting. Anyone think that it's a good idea to email Dillions about that?

Anyway, most people think that shooting or gun owning is a "white man's" culture and that peoples of others cultures are "fighting against the white man" by automatically being anti-gun. We need to show everyone, no matter the culture, that gun ownership and that Right belongs to everyone, not just the "white man".

Wayne

[Majic]

Anyway, most people think that shooting or gun owning is a "white man's" culture
If you are in an area dominated by just one culture and don't socialize with the other cultures then how would you know how most people think?

[manwithoutahome]

Majic

Wasn't said to start a flame war. Was said because the only Black man in our shooting range commented, "Many black people think that the shooting sports is a white man's thing".

Was in a discussion the same as this. I'm not sure what you were trying to say in your reply but that is not what I meant.

Wayne

[DesertEagle613]

Dude, most places I know where people REALLY fight against the "white man" culture, they do it with guns...

In fact, I would argue that the real "white man" culture that blacks and others should be fighting against is submission to the nanny-state. Most blacks and Hispanics I know are far more into personal responsibility than many whites.

On that topic, WHY must so many Jews be so enthusiastic about handing over their freedoms and safety to das republik? (Not that I believe that the republic is a republik yet, but these guys sure seem to want it that way.) It ticks me off that we're plugging along trying to keep ourselves free and some "let's join hands for world peace" type comes and messes things up. And if they ever start the roundups again, he's going to end up hiding behind ME and other Real Jews who actually have guns and know how to use them. Grrrr.

//rant_off

[Cliff]

Manwithoutahome,
Here's a few pics from my group. We are a bunch of instructors and noninstructors that reach out to the public and debunk a lot of myths regarding guns,and we push proper and safe firearm shooting and handling. Link is here. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C-A-F-E/)

http://www.fototime.com/{16F26701-35CD-4EA6-843F-A85F55B1D458}/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/{B0808B53-6CE0-4CC4-A459-5EB030FF8D27}/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/{7B2137B6-47D7-42ED-B8B7-BEC7263A80FF}/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/{0DA06E6F-A234-467A-BE4D-80F598B43A16}/picture.JPG

[Stevie-Ray]

The black aquaintences I have at work are usually quite aloof when it comes to guns. When the subject comes up they generally frown and leave the conversation. I see it as typical liberal behavior, as this is a union shop and the UAW puts it's claws into the RKBA also. :mad: But I've uncovered a few that are as hardcore as I, and we talk just about every day, even if we are on different shifts. The "gun people" at work all seem to hang together whenever possible; during breaks, etc. There is a distinct lack of blacks, though, as well as women in our building, that are interested in guns. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case at the ranges I frequent.

[Guy B. Meredith]

Cliff,

As my generation used to say before our slang was corrupted "Way cool, man."

[Majic]

Cliff,
I saw that website once when I was searching for the Colt group on Yahoo.
Funny how your name and the guy pictured remind me of someone living up your way. You wouldn't by any chance have a friend named Carlton?

[Not_A_Llama]

Well, I'm a Taiwanese kid, born in the USA, though.

At the ranges I go to, it's mostly white folks, and the occassional hispanic fellow with an inexpensive handgun. I'm typically the only Asian, but there aren't many asians around here anyway(Denver). I really consider myself fortunate, given that my family has absolutely no hunting or shooting background... I'm not sure why, but dad got a .22 when I was 14 or so... I've been a nut ever since

I offer to take a LOT of people shooting; it's mostly asians that take me up on it, though. Most asians I know, though, are engineers or in a technical field, which I've noticed is a strong shooting demographic. Strong, strong, strong demographic. I must have gotten at least twenty new shooters into the sport in my EE/ECE department alone at school.

My girl, who's Korean, really loves shooting. Especially the AR. Actually, she didn't at first, but then I noticed her earplugs weren't in right. Her dad got a real kick out of it, since he served in both the ROK army and the US army... told me it was "exact rike my M4."

My dad went through the requisite Taiwanese military training, so he's definitely not gunshy, being a former marine officer. Shocked the hell out of me when he picked up and knew instantly how to use a Garand, an M1A (M14), and an M1 carbine. When I got my AK and Arisaka, he knew how to use those as well. He'd used them all before! Mom also knew how to use the Arisaka, but she remembered from highschool that it wasn't any fun to shoot. Couldn't stop laughing for a couple minutes when she said something about not wanting to see it again, 30 years later.

It's been my observation that Taiwanese and Koreans are more likely to be receptive towards guns.. I think it's because both countries have mandatory military training.

Anyhow, my 0.02

[Stand_Watie]

Cliff, that's pretty cool. Looks like you're doing your part. That number 2 photo is poster-worthy.

Not_a_Llama, I had also been wondering about the engineers/technical field demographic towards shooting.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Not_a_Llama, I had also been wondering about the engineers/technical field demographic towards shooting.

I'd like to reiterate Not_a_Llama's statements. My observation of the technical species is that most of them are shooters. Well, at least at the places where I've worked and am currently employed at.

Jim

[El Tejon]

Greetings from the incubator of the techie kind.:)

Yes, the Pocket Protectors are most certainly into guns, which is cool with me. They love to work on them and handy to have in case you need to borrow extra suspenders or a pair of pants that are too short in the inseam.:D

HIBEEN!

[Skunkabilly]

Not a Llama,

My girl, who's Korean, really loves shooting. Especially the AR. Actually, she didn't at first, but then I noticed her earplugs weren't in right. Her dad got a real kick out of it, since he served in both the ROK army and the US army... told me it was "exact rike my M4."

1. Is she single

2. Is Colorado shall-issue?

[manwithoutahome]

Cliff,

That is what I'm talking about.

I have noticed that here in Eugene, the people tend to "stick with their own" :(. We have a large Latino/Mexican population but you wouldn't know it day to day. I only know of four Blacks that I've personally met here, the gentleman from the club, the guy that I saw and talked with at SM gun shop (had a Sig and was picking up a holster) and two who are apprentices at the school.

If you think that there are "rednecks" in the South, you should come here :(. I will tell you the truth, I'm tired of looking at white all the time and would like some color in my life :).

But El (I think it was him) had a good idea. Here we are talking about this and that but we (some of us) haven't taken the time to take someone else of another culture out to the range. I think that I will make that my goal. Get more and more folks into shooting and guns and maybe they can change from the inside out in their culture.

I also, as was stated before, that the biggest enemy is the so called "leadership". The naacp is anti-gun as heck and the Jewish congress is just as bad. What I don't understand is that gun control started out in America to ensure that Blacks did not have the Right or the chance to own and gun control started in Europe to ensure that the Jews couldn't fight back. Yet, they are the first to jump on the anti-gun band wagon. In a way, they are stating that the bigots and the murderers were right in what they did!

Gun ownership will ensure that there will be no more slavery or injustice in this country. Gun owership will ensure the battle cry of "NEVER AGAIN". Yet both groups embrace gun control and depend on the very governments that started the allowed things like this to happen.

*shaking head*... why, oh why do people allow themselves to be lead to their own slaughter or enslavement? Why do they distrust the people who they have an equal chance against yet trust the very governments that allowed what happened?

Sorry to go off on a tangent. I really can't understand why groups that have been used, killed, slaughted, and enslaved are the very ones that will give up the only Right that will ensure that it never happens again. And the groups that escape the governments of their countries (either first or whatever generation) which forbid the people from gun ownership and thus the people were always used as pawns, murdered or had to bow down to the government come here, gain their citizenship, and then try to ban or resrict the very tool that will ensure that this country will not become like the country they or their parents/family before them, escaped from.

I will tell you the truth, I used to be a bigot (racist). I didn't care and I didn't want anyone but my "race" (and who knows which one I'm referring to since I am Native American, Spanish, English, Irish, German, and many others) to have guns. As a matter of fact I delighted in the fact that the other cultures were told that guns were bad so that meant that I could have power over them. Then I started to talk with people, learned about people, here and over the emails, and then I learned that they, as I, were Americans. As Americans, we have a Right. This Right does not belong to just me and my culture, it belongs to us all.

That's why I like this thread. It shows us that we all have one (or more) things in common, no matter the culture. We all need to work together to get more people, all people, to stop listening to the lies of their "leaders" and to embrace the American way, which, even if the anti's and liars hate the fact, includes gun ownership.

Wayne

*I hope that I didn't sound too bad. Was just typing and thinking from the heart and I don't wish to contaminate the thread. If I did, please delete. Thank you.

[Majic]

Well first you have to realize the NAACP is a big democratic party supporter. They thrive on the support from welfare, public housing, afermative action, food stamps, and any other program geared toward poverty in blacks at the expense of the taxation of others. They will follow the democratic party to hell on any policy as long as they can keep their so call free programs in place.
I've been approached by them many times for support, but as I tell them if they fight for better schools instead of just trying to push any student into college for a quota, fight for jobs not just supply an impoverish lifestyle, and try to install some diginity into the lives of those have learned from generations to just wait for a handout then just maybe I would consider them. To say the least they are not impressed with another black man who just don't blindly follow their ways. I'm viewed as a black man who has turned his back on the community because I don't take the money I earned and donate it to them so someone else can sit on their rear end all day, but still live as well as I do. They already have my tax money, but that is just not enough for the NAACP. They want to bleed me poor so I can fit in with the masses.

Due to the nature of this board I can't say this like I really want to. :fire:

[manwithoutahome]

Majic,

I believe the term is "Uncle Tom". Now, I have not researched into the saying because it's just been a couple of years that I've been talking with Pastor Kenn and he is the one who is teaching me that we all stand together or hang alone.

But what I recall about my learning, Uncle Tom's Cabin was a place where the slaves who were fleeing the injustice against them could come and be routed to the states that did not have slavery and all people were freed, indentured servants, blacks, etc.. Anyone that needed help.

I just wished that everyone would just embrace the title of American. Guns will not go away and instead of being in fear of them, embrace them. We are the last stand, Americans, in this world. There are people and governments that wish to enslave us just the way that we wrongly enslaved others.

I cannot speak for Cliff or Majic. They know better than I what is going on in their culture. Yet I see that they are doing their best to bring the joy of gun ownership and the Rights that they have to their people (I have no idea how to put this that doesn't sound bad on my part :( ).

As is shown here, and another board that I am a member, we can unite. We all have something in common and we can help to ensure that American culture (as in, all peoples, all one, all the same) stands up against the battle that we will have to fight. If we have hate against another, due to color or way of life (or profession), then we have already failed.

Sorry, going off on another tangent. I've learned alot in the past couple of years.

Wayne

[Cliff]

Majic pretty much nails it regarding the NAACP. I decided to not renew my membership in 1995 when It became very noticible to me the direction that the NAACP was going in. Even then it was easy to see that they were in the beginning stages of whoring themselves out to the democratic party. As far as I'm concerned NAACP stands for National Association of Assbackward Colored People. The group has lost my respect because of the leadership of Mfume & Bond,and I doubt that It will ever be regained.

Manwithoutahome, very kind and thoughtfull words. I too was how shall I say it, somewhat radical in my young,dumb,liberal youth? If your ever visiting the east coast around the D.C. area,give me a yell,the first couple of rounds are on me.

[Stand_Watie]

*I hope that I didn't sound too bad. Was just typing and thinking from the heart and I don't wish to contaminate the thread. If I did, please delete. Thank you

Hey, guess what? We all live and learn. I think it's very big of a person when they learn something and then are willing to admit that their previous worldview was wrong. I used to be a moderate (probably extreme by the standards of this board) gun controller...along the lines of that gun ownership should be controlled about equivalently to driver's licenses...my excuse is that I was just a stupid teenager at the time - fortunately my parents good sense and values kicked in about the time I reached adulthood (early 20's for me).

Skunkabilly, I'm keeping my eyes open for you in your quest...I thought about you the other day when I was watching the olympic badmitton matches, a couple of lovely young ladies (Chinese vs. Korean) playing...I thought that "I'll bet skunkabilly is enjoying this..." Hey, I'd have been enjoying it too, from other than the purely athletic perspective, if I wasn't already happily married. I think we here on the board need to find more young ladies that are into uber-tacticality so we can get skunk hooked up right.

[Cliff]

Majic, sorry about taking so long in getting back to you. Sorry, no Carlton in our group. Just a reminder, If any of you guys & gals plan on going to the next big Dulles Expo gun show in Oct, CAFE will have two tables there,please stop by and say hello.

[horge]

I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Here in the Philippines, and looking back...
I wind up shooting alongside what you would call whites, browns, yellows
and blacks. It never quite registers that way though. We're all Filipino.

More to the point, we're all just shooters.

As for getting more women into shooting -- I think they'd appreciate
less macho posturing at the range. God knows there are a lot of
female firearm owners out there, and anyone with a firearm NEEDS
range time.

:)


horge

[manwithoutahome]

Cliff,

Thank you for the offer, I am honored. The same offer goes to you and yours if you find yourself on this side of the country.

horge,

More to the point, we're all just shooters.

Amen to that!

Wayne