[ether]

So I'm looking around trying to find one....used or at least an older new one....I'm convinced that everyone stopped making good guns in the late 90's :D Plus, I hate the warning on the slides on the new ones. So is a Chantilly import any more desirable than a Sterling? Have P7's always come with test targets from the factory? I'm eyeing a 1996 model that is in 100% shape and has everything BUT the test target...and I assume 1996 models originally came with them...right?

Will they really shoot 1" groups at 25 yards? How's the quality control as far as fit and parts breakage? It seems like I'm always reading about broken firing pins in USP's and broken firing pin collars in P7's.

[lunde]

My two "KF" (1995) P7M8s were bought NIB, and neither came with a test target. I didn't really care. Both are Sterling imports. My "IA" (1980) P7 PSP came with a test target, because the original owner still had it. My "IC" P7 PSP didn't have one, because the original owner died (I bought it as part of an estate sale), and for obvious reasons he couldn't remember where it was.

Whether they'll shoot one-inch groups at 25 yards is more a factor of the shooter. The test target of my "IA" P7 PSP does that.

I ended up hard-chroming one of my "KF" P7M8s, and my "IA" P7 PSP. Here they all are:

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p7-collection.jpg

[Zundfolge]

:what:

Its like the most beautiful flower in the world.

:D

[10-Ring]

My "II" (1988) P7M8 didn't come with one and I got it new from dealer. Now, I want another one just to round of the collection since I had it hard chromed, I want ablue one now too.

PS...lunde - no wonder I can't find any mags, you've gottem all! :neener: I really like that pic!

[honocor]

I want one too, but I can't figure out why?!?:rolleyes:

[critter]

I recently purchased a refurb. The operation of a P7 is a little 'different' but one can become accustomed to it quite quickly. They are WELL thought out, very well engineered and put together. It is the most accurate semiauto I have ever pulled a trigger on-bar none! It will shoot way better than I can. A most interesting addition to the fold. Good luck in finding one.BTW, also LOVE that picture of the 'flower'!

[ether]

I've read that the welds on the slide can develop cracks after many many rounds. Does anyone have any info on this? Where exactly are the welds?

[Wildalaska]

Nice pistols....my only complaint is their sensitivity to crud and cold..

WildnotanmilitarypistolAlaska

[arinvolvo]

My good god man!!!!....You must really LOVE that pistol to have so many of them....I must say I am jealous...I have never shot one, but they look like excellent pieces.

And by the way, you might want to search out some counseling for your magazine addiction. ;)

[JimC]

ether,

Do yourself a BIG favor and take a good look at the Walther P5 Compact before you buy the P7M8. ;)

They are not ammo sensitive and don't have a gas system to foul up and will never burn your hand while firing. :eek:

The guy with the pretty photo of his above also has a P5C and really likes it but "cult loyality" won't allow him to publically say so. :p

[Extremist]

Ether, yes, by all means, try a P5C and a P7M8 side by side before you decide.

FYI, I've not had any ammo sensitivity with my P7s (granted, you can't/shouldn't shoot lead bullets in it, but that's the rule for polygonal rifled barrels), and I've never burned my hand while firing (since my hand is on the grip :D).

I'm 99% sure you will fire the P7 more accurately, and you will smile more when you fire it.

FWIW, I have ONE P5 Compact and I like it. I have more P7s than I have fingers :D, so take that as you will as to which one I prefer.

(No offense Jim :rolleyes: )

James

[JimC]

James...no offense taken. :D

I can afford to have either or two of each if I please but I prefer the Walthers to the HK's. ;)

[Ted Bell]

Is that what the hippies meant by Flower Power? Nice collection!

[Kahr carrier]

Nice Pic and Stable.:D

[gbelleh]

The P7 is totally unique, extremely well made, accurate and fun to shoot. Yeah, it can get pretty hot after a while, but you can always get more P7s to shoot while the others are cooling!

There is no substitute for the P7.

Check out the Cult of the P7 at:

http://www.parkcitiestactical.com

You know you want to join! :evil:

[Handy]

The P5 is comparable to the P7 in that both are expensive and German.

Other than that the P5 is much wider, has a crummy trigger and is not even half as accurate.

I have both in my possesion, and their factory test targets. 1" for the P7 and 4" for the P5.

[Pilot]

I have a P7M8 and a Walther P-5. The P7 gets shot and the P-5 sits. Which one do you think I like better? They are both excellent pistol, the HK is just a bit better in every way.

[Chipperman]

I have three (an M8 and 2 M13's). I have been untold thousands of rounds through them with no failures or breakages.

The weld crack story is bunk.

Mine work fine in the cold, and are not that sensitive to grime. Ask Ayoob how many rounds he puts thru his between cleanings. :rolleyes:

IMO they are the best CCW available.

And yes, I am an official Cult member (#79). :evil:

[ether]

JimC - I already have a P5 (original) and love it.

My P5 isn't a target gun, but it's very stylish and fun to shoot, and mine has a great trigger (for a DA). I guess I just want a P7 because I don't have one yet, and they're very unique and well-made....pretty much the same reasons I had for wanting the P5 :)

[lunde]

I find the HK P7s and Walther P5s to be exceptional firearms. Each person's tastes are different, and while one person may prefer the HK P7, another may prefer the Walther P5. If you have one and have a strong desire for the other, go for it.

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p7m8-top-right.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p5c-left.jpg

[Handy]

Keep in mind that the good Doctor has four of every popular firearm model available. It's kind of funny when he professes a preference.

All good parents love all their children.

[Wildalaska]

Mine work fine in the cold, and are not that sensitive to grime. Ask Ayoob how many rounds he puts thru his between cleanings.

Cold is -20, and gunk aint what ya get from shooting...

Like I said I like em, I owned em, not the ultimate carry gun but still fun..just the two flaws I mentioned.

WildhipowersruleAlaska

[schild]

I don't remember what year, but HK stopped including the target several years ago. (The story I heard was that they come from the factory with a target and HK-USA throws them out).

[lunde]

No offense to anyone here in the legal profession, but chucking test targets sounds like a "lawyers told them to do it" thingie. You know, if the test target shows a one-inch groups at 25 meters, but if the shooter is not capable...

[Tamara]

If I had to sell off all my autos; Glock, SIG, Beretta, $2,000+ 1911s; the P7 would be the last to go.

[Ted Bell]

Well said Tamara

[ether]

Wild - I'm pretty fond of my Hi Power too ;)

Nice P7 pics all!!

[cratz2]

Well, I've shot several M8s and was always very impressed with them. I'm not good enough of a shooter to realize the accuracy potential but it is there, like it or not.

I'd love to get one, it's a goal of mine this year. I've had a couple chances in the last couple years but just haven't been willing to part with that much cash at one time.

[ether]

It is definitely alot of money, and it will be hard for me to write that check....but they're obviously extremely well-made pistols. With the way things are now, it looks like you either have to start cutting some corners in manufacturing or raising your prices significantly just to stay afloat. I would much rather save my money longer and pay more for quality....but most people don't know the difference between old and new era workmanship or just don't care (plastic Beretta apologists).

Have I talked myself into a P7 yet? :D

[tlhelmer]

Do you have any other pics of the Walther P-5? That is a great looking gun.

[lunde]

More pics of my P5C (and other pistols, including four of my HK P7s) are at my "Pistol Wallpaper Page." Click on the link in my signature to go there. The thumbnails (both sizes) are 180x135 if memory serves. The mid-size ones (the ones you get by clicking on the small thumbnails) are 720x540, which are good for posting to forums. The large ones (the ones you get by clicking on the large thumbnails) are a full 2048x1536, suitable for computer desktops.

[lunde]

I also recommend Jim Costanza's web site for more Walther pics. See: http://www.jimcostanza.com/

He has some gorgeous P5, P88, and P99 pics there.

[tlhelmer]

Thanks!

[JimC]

http://jimcostanza.com/p1010043_8x6.jpg

[JimC]

http://jimcostanza.com/p1030603_10x7.5.jpg

If I had to sell off all my autos; Glock, SIG, Beretta, $2,000+ 1911s; the P7 would be the last to go.

IMO, extremely narrow minded.
The P7 family is good, real good, but not good enough to give up other very good, well made, easier to maintain pistols.

[Tamara]

IMO, extremely narrow minded.
The P7 family is good, real good, but not good enough to give up other very good, well made, easier to maintain pistols.

That's me, man: narrow-minded. :rolleyes:

You tell me: which pistol should I keep instead of the one that I have the easiest time making rapid first-shot hits with, that's flat and easily concealable, yet accurate enough to make target shooting pleasurable?

(And what's so friggin' "hard-to-maintain" about these guns that people keep yawpin' about anyway? They field-strip as easy as anything, you scrape the cack out of the gas cylinder once in a blue moon, and shazam!, you're done. :confused: )

[J Scott]

Tamara,

What are P7's going for in your neck of the woods?(NIB)

Thanks,

J Scott

[Tamara]

NIB, the tarriffs are pretty steep. I seem to recollect that the local cop supply shop ordered one with night sights for a guy a couple of months ago and it cost him $1300 or $1350.

It makes it worth it to track down a refurb... ;)

[Poohgyrr]

I like the P7M8's a lot and remember when they retailed for about $500 in So Cal around '81 I think. Then they suddenly skyrocketed to about $1K. I have no idea what retail is today. Missed my chance :( but I do have Hi Powers :D :D

[Archer]

You tell me: which pistol should I keep instead of the one that I have the easiest time making rapid first-shot hits with, that's flat and easily concealable, yet accurate enough to make target shooting pleasurable?

Your SA Professional, of course. ;)

[Dobe]

I handeled one this weekend...new for a little over $1300.

I have a question. Why are they so expensive? Are they difficult (time consuming/labor intensive) to manufacture?

Dobe

[Wildalaska]

They are like everything German..over engineered and over priced...

With all the whining about S&W, how come we never see complaints against H&K, a GERMAN anti american company:D

H&K was owned by GIAT for a while I think...a FRENCH cOMPANY

WildboycottuntilschroedergivesupAlaska:what:

[Handy]

I'll post this again, since I didn't get an answer in the other thread:

What is "overbuilt"?

I hear that in reference to HKs all the time. It must not mean sturdy, since no one calls the CZ overbuilt.

And it must not mean that it has too many internal parts, because even a P7 has fewer parts than a Beretta.

So I'm stumped.

[Dobe]

How does the P7 handle std, +p and +p+ rounds?

Dobie

[Handy]

Since the gas system is self regulating (higher pressure round, more resistance to opening), the gun will digest most everything well (the Steyr GB was also known to be great with hot loads).

But, while P7 fans like to post "the P7 likes it hot!", that isn't the whole story. The gas system does a good job of keeping the slide closed, but isn't decreasing the amount of total recoil on the gun or the amount of pressure the breechface is absorbing. There are tales of breechblock cracking that are always related to very high pressure ammo (+P+) in large amounts.

Being a European pistol, NATO pressure ammo, which runs in the +P range, should never be a problem. And should necessity arise, it will handle the +P+. But I don't understand why it should be necessary to shoot much of either-in any gun. Standard ammo works well and is accurate. I carry +P Gold Dots, but I've only fired 25 round or so to insure feeding. My practice is all with the slower stuff to insure the pistol remains in top form, should I need it.

You don't need to baby a P7, but the replacement price makes it a decent idea. (Descends from soapbox.)

[Wildalaska]

What is "overbuilt"?


I for one never said overbuilt, I said "overengineered" like most modern German products.

The P7s are fine pistols....they carry nicely..they are accurate..they are overpriced for their class. They have a certain snob appeal for that reason.

I just got another one which I will play with. But I am realistic, it isnt getting carried in the deep deep cold or where it ccan get really dirty. It is not a service pistol. I trust my tricked out HP more...


They are also a nightmare to fix.

WildtheyarestillcoolpistolsAlaska