.45 LC ... where does it fall as a self defense round?


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Alan Fud
April 16, 2004, 04:53 AM
For self defense purposes, how does the .45LC (the round itself -- not the gun firing it) compare to other calibers (9mm? .357mag? .40S&W? .45ACP? etc.?) and what is the best commercial .45LC ammo out there for self defense purposes?

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Hal
April 16, 2004, 06:19 AM
No brainer - .45acp.
The .45acp is the "replacement" for the .45 Colt ;)

For big "D", I prefer the 200 gr Blazer. "Caldera" sized cavity.

Second choice is the [[[weak]]] Cowboy load,,,but only in my Winchester Trapper, not my Blackhawk 4 5/8" revolver. I agree, the Cowboy loads are somewhat anemic out of most revolvers. Out of a carbine, they are perfectly acceptable (ballistic-wise).

Majic
April 16, 2004, 07:07 AM
I would say it starts with the .45acp and goes up from there. The wimp loads are as powerful as the .45acp and it can be made as effective a .44mag. That covers a lot of ground.

45crittergitter
April 16, 2004, 10:10 AM
Note that there are the original "blackpowder" level SAAMI spec ammo (14,000 psi), and more powerful stuff for modern stronger guns.

WW 225 gr. Silvertips and Federal 225 LHP are good low pressure ammo.
I agree that the Speer 200 JHP is good.
Don't forget the Cor-Bon with the 200 Speer JHP (+P), my preference.

Sean Smith
April 16, 2004, 10:42 AM
With a strong gun like a Ruger you can safely handload .45 Colt to be better than just about anything, really.

RWK
April 16, 2004, 11:27 AM
Alan,

I believe the .45 Colt is an excellent defensive round, and I respectfully take small exception to those who suggest it is essentially only a .45 ACP replacement. More specifically, the .45 ACP was developed -- almost a century ago -- to roughly duplicate .45 Colt ballistics. However, in the last 100 years numerous improvements in metallurgy, propellant chemistry, bullet design, and so forth have created a completely new realm for the .45 Colt.

At the STANDARD PRESSURES (non +P), some .45 Colt rounds essentially equal .45 ACP loads; to illustrate:
a) Standard pressure 225 grain .45 Colt Winchester Silver Tip -- 920 FPS/423 FtLbs
b) Standard pressure 230 grain .45 ACP Winchester JHP -- 880 FPS/396 FtLbs

Conversely, other STANDARD PRESSURE (non +P) .45 Colt loads BASICALLY PERFORM LIKE .45 ACP +Ps; for example:
a) Standard Pressure 200 grain .45 Colt CorBon JHP -- 1100 FPS/537 FtLbs
b) +P 200 grain .45 ACP CorBon -- 1050 FPS/490 FtLbs

Finally, the .45 Colt -- in a strong, properly designed revolver, such as most Rugers -- can FAR EXCEED .45 ACP loads and essentially duplicate .44 magnum ballistics; to document:
a) +P 265 grain .45 Colt CorBon BCHP -- 1350 FPS/1073 FtLbs
b) 260 grain .44 magnum CorBon BCHP -- 1450 FPS/1214 FtLbs

To summarize:
> At its lowest pressure loadings, modern .45 Colt defensive rounds essentially duplicate .45 ACP ballistics
> However, many commercially available STANDARD PRESSURE .45 Colt defensive rounds equal or exceed +P .45 ACP ballistics
> At top-end pressures, the .45 Colt effectively replicate .44 magnum ballistics -- PARTICULARLY FOR NON-COMMERCIAL HAND-LOADS.

I frequently carry a Smith 625-9 (four-inch Mountain Gun) loaded with Georgia Arms 200 grain STANDARD PRESSURE “Gold Dots” that provide 1100 FPS and ~540 foot pounds of muzzle energy -- and that’s in a non +P round. I respectfully suggest that is a darn potent defensive load.

DigMe
April 16, 2004, 11:51 AM
Just don't use whatever round failed to kill "the bride" in Kill Bill Vol. 1!! :)

The bullet looked like a Federal Castcore but the bottom of the shell definitely did not say Federal.

brad cook

Alan Fud
April 16, 2004, 11:57 AM
Thanks RWK. I've been thinking about getting a Taurus Raging Bull chambered in .454 Casull (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=454SS5M&category=Revolver) (under the assumption that if the gun can handle .454's, it can handle any commercially available hot .45LC round) and shooting .45LC's out of it. From what you are saying, it sounds like one gun can serve multiple purposes depending on what ammo is used. Thanks again.

Quartus
April 16, 2004, 01:46 PM
(under the assumption that if the gun can handle .454's, it can handle any commercially available hot .45LC round)


Safe assumption. Good choice, assuming you have considered the reloading issue.


Back in the 80s, there were a lot of departments using the .357 as their standard round. But thanks to Dirty Harry, the word, "MAAAAAAGUM!!!!!" got bad rap, and it became uncomfortable to have officers carrying such a deadly round.

Be afraaaaiiid. Be VERY afraaaiiid! :what:

(I suspect that this influenced the move to autos, but that's another debate for another time.)


In California, the Santa Ana PD decreed that officers could carry anything they wanted, as long as it wasn't An Eeeville Maaaaagnum! (TM) Oh, and no hollowpoints, boys. Nope - don't want to kill 'em too dead.


Local gunshops experienced a run on S&W model 25s in 45 LC, and the round of choice was the WW Silvertip.


They seemed happy with it.

Jim March
April 16, 2004, 03:50 PM
Speer has just come out with a 250grain Gold Dot monster-hollowpoint-cavity slug specifically for the 45LC. It's designed to open just north of 800fps or so, and is probably at it's peak around 900 - 950, should do OK up through 1,050 - 1,100. It's basically the same concept as the 135grain "snubby special", just scaled up.

It's available right now in a Speer load, and expect it soon in Georgia Arms, Black Hills, Proload and the like.

This critter *might* prove to be THE ultimate defensive handgun round, period, bar none, end of discussion. If not, I expect it to be damned close.

It would be quite definately the first round I'd load in that 454 :).

Penman
April 16, 2004, 03:50 PM
There were two or three California PDs that authorized the S&W 25-5 for uniform carry, I think Long Beach was one of them years ago. They supposedly had good results with the Federal and Silvertip loads.

RWK
April 16, 2004, 04:19 PM
Jim,
Do you believe the new Speer 250 grain Colt would "overstress" a new, stainless 625-9 Mountain Gun?

Thanks -- Roy

Alan Fud
April 16, 2004, 04:39 PM
Uh Roy, isn't the 625 chambered for the .45ACP (at least that is what their website says (http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293544&sw_activeTab=1))? Wouldn't the cylinder chamber be too short for the .45LC?

RWK
April 16, 2004, 05:05 PM
Alan,

No, Smith 625s/25s are chambered for either the .45 ACP or the .45 Colt -- but not both. My 625-9 -- and Jim’s post re the new, Speer, 250 grain Gold Dot -- concern the .45 Colt (not the .45 ACP).

S&W’s current production (pursuant to their website) includes only one .45 Colt revolver: Catalog number 160929 is a beautiful, blue Model 25 (see http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=301523&sw_activeTab=1). My experience is most (probably >80 percent) of Smith’s 625/25 revolvers produced over the last decades are chambered for the .45 ACP; however, more than a few are designed for the .45 Colt.

Regards.

Alan Fud
April 16, 2004, 05:22 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

popbang
April 16, 2004, 07:47 PM
RWK, the idea for the Speer 250 grain hollow point is to give those using weaker actins (read not Rugers) a bullet that will expand at lower velocity. So, when the load comes out it should be safe for SAA's, and clones there of, and the S&W's. Just checked the Speer site and they list velocity at 900 fps. Looks like a good choice.

Mannlicher
April 16, 2004, 08:09 PM
Personally, I find the .45 Colt to at the top of the heap, for self defense.

My 25-5 Smith is chambered for .45 Colt. I have an additional cylinder for .45 ACP as well. Both cartridges are accurate, and a pleasure to shoot. I have put thousands of rounds of pretty stout loads through it, and it is still in exellent condition. A few years back, I had the square butt converted to round. I installed all new springs, replaced the targer trigger and hammer, and had it hard chromed. I added Trijicon night sights, and hand carved Rosewood grips.

Jim March
April 17, 2004, 05:41 AM
RWK: Speer's factory loading for the 250 Gold Dot is NOT a "+P" and has no "Ruger ONLY!!!" sort of warning. It's supposed to be doing about 875 - 900ish from a 4" tube. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot fairly large numbers of these through an S&W DA N-Frame-based 45LC. Stress on the gun will be *maybe* a hair higher than you'd see with Winchester Silvertips but the difference will be minor. The Cor-Bon 200s at 1,100 from a 4" will probably be a bit more stressful than the 250 Gold Dot (at least as Speer is loading them now, Georgia Arms or others may heat 'em up a tad). The Cor-Bon 200s in turn can also be shot rather extensively from at least the more recent batches of S&W 25s and at least modestly in early ones.

Mind you, 25s will last longer if even lighter loads ("cowboy action grade" plain lead) is used as the mainstay of practice. Hell, they'll more or less last forever if "babied" in that fashion :).

Remember though, check two things rather regularly: make sure the screws are tight, and check for endshake once in a while. When endshake starts to appear, that's not good. When it starts to get worse, that's bad. Endshake allows the cylinder to act as a battering ram at both ends of the frame, and should be corrected once it develops. Yes, revolvers can run with "zero detectable endshake", and should be kept as close to that as possible.

RWK
April 17, 2004, 09:30 AM
Thanks, Jim, for your (as always) superb answer. Best regards -- Roy

MrMurphy
April 17, 2004, 10:22 AM
What about say in a Vaquero? Thought about getting a Vaquero for a long time (about six years) just to scratch the cowboy gun itch, and carrying a .45 ACP every day, I'd want a real cowboy caliber (.45 Colt) though I thought about .44 Mag for a while due to the .44 Special versatility thing. But if Speer comes out with that new load, maybe another look at the Colt is a good thing for last-ditch use (primary would be fun-gun, but having some JHPs nearby is always nice) and maybe a Marlin levergun in the same caliber? :)

Nightcrawler
April 17, 2004, 12:38 PM
The Vaquero is as strong as a Ruger Redhawk; in other words, no factory ammo out there is going to hurt it.

Jim March
April 17, 2004, 04:32 PM
Right. The Vaq *looks* more delicate than the Blackhawk due to the topstrap, but in practice strength is identical. Linebaugh or others will be happy to convert a Vaq to a five-shot 454Casull, 475Linebaugh or other "psycho handcannon load" with no qualms whatsoever. In stock form, the Vaq in 45LC will eat anything a 45LC Blackhawk will, so that would include the Buffalo Bore 325grain hardcast at 1,300+ :cool:.

A Vaq/BH (or Redhawk) in 45LC can eat "unlimited" diets of the "45LC jacketed combat loads" like the Winnie Silvertip, Cor-Bon 200 and the new Speer 250. The aforementioned BuffBore level loads...well, they *might* slowly shake a Ruger up, but they'll total your wrists first :scrutiny:. (And I mean that literally.)

With a modern S&W 25, change "unlimited" to "high". If it was my gun, I'd do range sessions involving 50 rounds of cowboy lead and ending with a cylinder or two of "jacketed combat", or a stouter lead load of similar horsepower (hardcast Keith @ 950fps, etc) that printed to the same place. Even daily, that regimen would let the gun run for many, many years without tuning. Weekly, which is more like what I'd want to do with a CCW gun, I'd probably be able to pass the gun to my kids with nothing fixed 'cept new springs once a decade.

(Gotta get around to the kid part first though :)...)

Jim March
April 17, 2004, 04:40 PM
Sidenote: right now the Speer 135 and 250 projectiles are available in Speer cases, and as reload components. But they *apparantly* are not being released in quantity to Proload, GA, Black Hills and the like. Not yet. They'll fill their own pipeline first I guess.

I would expect Georgia Arms to load them first, yet their website is the slowest with updates. If you're buying in bulk, it might pay to call up GA and see what their status is. The 250 has been out longer and may be shipping already.

http://www.georgia-arms.com

fastbolt
April 17, 2004, 07:41 PM
I've always considered the .45 Colt ... or .45 Long Colt, if you prefer to think of it that way ... as a decent, viable cartridge.

When I first entered L/E there were a handful of folks in my agency that carried older 25-5's, and even a couple of folks that carried 25-2's, for that matter.

In my personal opinion, the "limitations" of it's "effectiveness" as a defensive cartridge have been caused by the limited number of available bullet designs. That's been changing in recent years, hasn't it?

Since it's generally considered that "effectiveness" is mostly dependant on the proper placement, and then sufficent depth of penetration & expansion, of whatever caliber is being used for defensive purposes ... (the often hotly debated issues notwithstanding) ... as long as the .45 Colt can deliver similar performance, with modern expanding bullet designs, I don't see why it couldn't fulfill MY perceived defensive handgun caliber needs.

Of course, then you DO need to consider the platform to be used, and its advantages/disadvantages for each individual shooter.

I still have a Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8" Convertible chambered in both .45 Colt & .45 ACP, and while the SA design makes it "unapproved" for an off weapon, as long as I'm still actively employed, I still find it a very pleasant and enjoyable revolver for occasional range practice.

If I came across a nicely done 3-4" barreled, 6-shot DA revolver chambered in .45 Colt ... I just might decide to add it to my off duty revolvers before I retire. I always sort of regretted not also getting the .45 Colt version of the 5 1/2" Redhawk, when I got the .44 Magnum version ...

The Redhawk is a large and heavy revolver, but it's always proven to be very controllable for me ...

This current M25 is nice, but I'd prefer stainless for "finish durability" (and my innate laziness), and I'd like to have the replaceable front sight posts, although I suppose I could simply switch it out for a brass bead post (which is what I installed on the 629 Classic I sometimes use for off duty use).

Jeff OTMG
April 17, 2004, 07:54 PM
RBCD 120gr is going over 2000 fps at standard pressure, so it is safe in a S&W 25-5 or old SA, once you exceed 4" of barrel. If a 115gr 9mm at 1350 fps or 135gr .40 S&W at 1250 fps is good, then the RBCD should be even better.

Selfdfenz
April 19, 2004, 02:42 PM
I read a story in SGN (?) an issue or so back stating the original 250/255 gr black power load in the 45 LC clocked 1000 fps. If that is true, it appears the Cowboys had a pretty effective weapon. Don't imagine it expanded too well but it would sure get through a heavy winter coat and still do something.
S-

MrMurphy
April 19, 2004, 06:26 PM
I believe Taurus makes some Bulldog-sized midget .45 Colts..... might want to look into those.

Majic
April 19, 2004, 07:54 PM
Don't imagine it expanded too well but it would sure get through a heavy winter coat and still do something.
I sincerely hope you don't think they used jacketed bullets either. A soft cast bullet will mushroom nicely at that velocity.

Selfdfenz
April 19, 2004, 10:03 PM
"sincerely hope you don't think they used jacketed bullets either"

Well no, as a matter of fact I did not, but how did you come up with that based on my comment?



S-

Majic
April 19, 2004, 11:11 PM
but how did you come up with that based on my comment?
....from your comment of not imagining that the bullet wouldn't expand very well at 1000fps.

Selfdfenz
April 19, 2004, 11:32 PM
Well, that doesn't directly lead to an assumption regarding Cowboys and jacketed bullets IMO.

I've loaded, shot and retrieved a fair number of pure lead slugs (including my 45 LC pure lead and alloys slug reloads and others) from any number of substrates. They do expand but not necessarily in a predictable way and certainly not to the predictable level of a jacketed HP of modern design. But that's just my experience. I think you used the term mushroom which means something very specific to me and something a fair number of pure lead projectiles don't do in a predictable or reproducable manner.

I would characterize that pure lead does is more deformation than controlled or predictable expansion. Again, just my opinion based on my personal set of definitions. :D

My original post points not to the poor character of the 45 LC as a man stopper but the opposite. For it's time it was effective and I think it still is.
I don't think the fact that there was pure lead 250 gr slug sitting atop BP cowboy loads was either good or bad. Just the facts. It was effective and I said so.

S-

Majic
April 20, 2004, 01:34 AM
If a lead bullet expands, deforms, or mushrooms at all then it has fulfilled it's requirements. It is now a greater diameter than when it left the bore. No one said or even expect lead bullets to expand to predictable and uniform sizes. You are redefining the term mushroom and then expect it to be predictable and repeatable. The term originated when people saw that the bullet would deformed and somewhat resembled a mushroom long before the development of the bullet jacket. Why you add the jacketed bullets for comparison is something I don't understand. The jacketed bullet had been in use for sometime before it was learned to open the nose of the jacket so the bullet could behave as it did in the non jacketed form. It has no bearing on the performance of non-jacketed lead alloy bullet.

Selfdfenz
April 20, 2004, 08:39 AM
I didn't interject jacketed bullets, you did.

And like I said, my definitions. Can't speak to yours.

"You are redefining the term mushroom and then expect it to be predictable and repeatable. "

Not just me. All the major bullet manufacturers of modern SD and hunting projectiles spend considerable time and money precisely to develope predictability and uniformaty into the expansion event as assessed by actual performance in different types of media. The jack is part of controlling that equation for JHP. No?

That was not the case back in the cowboy days to any extent I am aware of.

If the totallity of uniform expansion/uniform mushrooming/penetration/retained energy and retained mass etc for pure lead projectiles was superior to that of modern day JHP fired at equal velocities we would still be using pure lead slugs would we not.

"If a lead bullet expands, deforms, or mushrooms at all then it has fulfilled it's requirements."

My point is that pur lead projectiles may in fact "expands, deforms, or mushrooms" but it may of may not fulfill it's reguirements. Guess it depends on where the limbo bar is set, technically speaking.

What we are arguing about are our own person definitions and biasis, not the physics and metalurgy of the matter.
Sorry for the spelling, late for work.
S-

Dwayne Russell
January 5, 2006, 04:30 AM
For self defense purposes, how does the .45LC (the round itself -- not the gun firing it) compare to other calibers ?


There is an old saying that applies very nicely in this situation.

"If you shoot a man with a Colt 45 and he is still standing . . . . . . walk around behind him and see what he is propped up against"

That round has probably killed more people than any other since 1873.

1911 guy
January 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
The original rounds were comerable to one another, .45LC and .45ACP. Very similar bullet weights at very similar velocities. The army wanted an autoloader, so the ACP round became standard and revolvers went. Reloading, however, changes things significantly because of more efficient propellants and stronger revolvers, metalurgy wise. Store bought, I'd compare it to a .45ACP, handloaded, you might be able to stoke it up to near .44Mag levels, depending on the strength of your revolver.

MCgunner
January 5, 2006, 09:57 AM
Personally, I prefer a good 9mm +P to .45. Ballistically as effective and in a smaller package for carry. Forget the "big bullet". It ain't that big, just 0.100" bigger than the 9, one TENTH of an inch. :rolleyes: The nine makes as much energy and its velocity will make bullet expansion more assured.

I've never really loaded my .45 colt for self defense. I load it with a 300 grain XTP Hornady to about 1200 ft/sec. That's pretty much .44 magnum equivalent. The gun I cronographed has a 4 5/8" barrel. If I were to load it for self defense, I'd push that sort of energy level, something shy of 1200 ft lbs IIRC, but use the Speer 200 grain JHP. That bullet would probably be up around 1500fps+ Imagine the wound THAT would make. :eek: .45ACP ain't even in the same universe with that load. Now, the problem is if you don't handload, you can't get loads like that. But, you can still find available loads that are better than .45ACP as others here have mentioned. Doesn't Cor Bon make something in .45 colt???? My loads are fired out of an extremely strong Ruger Blackhawk. I wouldn't use 'em in any DA revolver. That's another problem for the .45 Colt and self defense. Even the DAs that are available are too big for CCW, anyway. A .45 ACP in a compact auto is a lot more practical to carry.

Pilot
January 5, 2006, 10:40 AM
The Vaquero is as strong as a Ruger Redhawk; in other words, no factory ammo out there is going to hurt it.

Are yout alking about the old Vaqueros or new ones? The new Vaq's have a lighter frame and is more of a Colt SAA clone instead of a modified Blackhawk. I would not load high pressure rounds into a new Vaq like I would a Blackhawk or Redhawk.

GarrettJ
January 5, 2006, 10:57 AM
Maybe this is a little off topic.

I have a Blackhawk Convertable, with cylinders in both .45 Colt & .45 ACP. I find that shooting ACP through the gun is consistently more accurate than shooting .45 Colt, in spite of the big "jump" the bullet has to make before engaging the rifling. This holds true for both factory ammo and reloads.

But then, I remember shooting some CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHPs in .45 Colt that were exceptionally accurate.

It was suggested to me that the rate of twist on the barrel is the same as what Ruger uses on their pistols. I don't know what the twist rate is, but it seems more suited to lighter (relatively) bullet weights in the 200 to 230 gr. range, as opposed to 255 gr. bullets.

Marshall
January 5, 2006, 02:26 PM
My Model 25 in this picture is stoked with Cor Bon's 1100 fps rounds and the speedloader is holding Silvertips. Both are pussycats in this gun. Cor Bon has a new .45 Colt round out now in the DPX line. 45 COLT+P 225 GR. DPX 1200 FPS/720FTLBS. I haven't used these yet but would hesitate using them in my Model 25. I wouldn't want to go too much more stout, except for a few shot's here and there like for hunting. I haven't shot the Big Gold Dots yet, I haven't found any locally and just haven't ordered any for some reason. :rolleyes:


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0512.jpg

Moonclip
January 6, 2006, 07:19 PM
That round has probably killed more people than any other since 1873.[/QUOTE]

I seriously doubt that but in it's day I'm sure it was used quite a bit. Actually though I though the 44/40 was considered to be the #1 in this regard except for nowadays probably the 9x19 has taken over for this dubious honor in PISTOL calibers.

As for 45LC effectiveness, depends on the load. With the low pressure Fed and Win loadings, maybe a little less effective than 45acp. With the Cor Bon and such, about equal to 45acp and with the real strong hunting loads like the Rugers can take, about 44mag or better performance.

Yes LBPD as well as a few other PDs here and there had officers use 25-5's on an individual basis but the large frame big bore revolver never really seemed to catch on with LE even in the revolvers heydey it seems.

MCgunner
January 6, 2006, 07:57 PM
Maybe this is a little off topic.

I have a Blackhawk Convertable, with cylinders in both .45 Colt & .45 ACP. I find that shooting ACP through the gun is consistently more accurate than shooting .45 Colt, in spite of the big "jump" the bullet has to make before engaging the rifling. This holds true for both factory ammo and reloads.

But then, I remember shooting some CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHPs in .45 Colt that were exceptionally accurate.

It was suggested to me that the rate of twist on the barrel is the same as what Ruger uses on their pistols. I don't know what the twist rate is, but it seems more suited to lighter (relatively) bullet weights in the 200 to 230 gr. range, as opposed to 255 gr. bullets.

All I can say to that is my 4 5/8 inch blackhawk is capable of 1" groups at 25 yards from a ransom rest the club has...somewhere...haven't been able to find it lately, but that's another story.

That accuracy is with two loads, a light 255 grain flat point load and a very hot 300 grain Hornady XTP load. Revolver accuracy doesn't get a whole lot better. I don't have an ACP cylinder for it. I could do up a load with the same bullet weights as ACP, I guess, but I haven't bothered. I like that big flat point chunk of lead. Looks like a friggin' artillery round. :D My .45 Colts are outdoor use, don't load it for self defense unless it's from a bear or lion or something.

Jim March
January 7, 2006, 02:47 AM
Pilot: look at the dates on the messages: what you quote me saying was written before the New Vaquero was even rumored at.

The New Vaquero is NOT as strong as previous Vaqs built on the New Model Blackhawk frame...which in turn is the same size as Ruger's original 44Mag frame.

The NewVaq most definately is NOT a 44Mag-grade frame.

Check out the Buffalo Bore pages on 45LC+P ammo - they specifically say the NewVaq isn't appropriate:

http://buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm

In 45LC the NewVaq should be treated to the same level of ammo power as an S&W 45LC DA revolver like the 25 or any other "near clone" of the Colt SAA such as the USFA Rodeo, Taurus Gaucho or Beretta Stampede (or a post-WW2 Colt SAA). I would shoot middling levels of the various combat JHPs through one such as the Corbon 200gr at 1,100fps or the Speer 250 at 900ish. And there are sources of hardcast in the 250/260 grain range at 1,000fps that maximize what these guns can do...the BufBore page has some examples.

I own a New Vaq but I chose 357.

stevelyn
January 7, 2006, 11:19 AM
The original rounds were comerable to one another, .45LC and .45ACP. Very similar bullet weights at very similar velocities. The army wanted an autoloader, so the ACP round became standard and revolvers went. Reloading, however, changes things significantly because of more efficient propellants and stronger revolvers, metalurgy wise. Store bought, I'd compare it to a .45ACP, handloaded, you might be able to stoke it up to near .44Mag levels, depending on the strength of your revolver.

The .45 ACP was more or less a duplication of the .45 Schofield load which was downloaded and shortened from the original .45 Colt cartridge.

The .45 Colt load was loaded w/ about 40 grains of blackpowder. The downloaded version was 28 grains. The Schofield cartridge was shortend for S&W guns and was the cartridge the Army eventually issued for both the Colt and S&W guns.
For the consumer market, .45 Colts were loaded to original specs.

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