Using drones to scout / hunt game


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gamestalker
February 15, 2015, 02:29 AM
I know in my state that you can't hunt an area within 72 hrs. of flying over it. But I wonder if that would apply to using drones?

Technically you aren't flying over it, and the regulations make no reference to using RC flown air craft with video devices, at least not that I've ever read. I know guides that will fly over the units for weeks even months prior to, and up to the 3rd day prior to a hunt. This is especially true for our annual G&F auctioned hunts, in which the tag is open for the full year, giving the hunter all the time they need. Some if those tags will auction for 50K or more, then the guides will charge as much as 100K or more, but this is for a WR class elk or deer, yes deer, Arizona strip deer.

I went to one of the annual G&F auctions back in the late 80's, this one guy paid like 50K for a strip deer tag, then he hired a team of guides, they charged him well over 100K, of which a big chunk went to months of helicopter chartering. So in a case like that, a drone would save someone a bunch of money.

GS

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Patocazador
February 15, 2015, 08:51 AM
Using drones for hunting is illegal in Alaska and Montana. I am sure other states will follow their lead.
Someone on here(?) already posted this but you can have your house listed as a "No Fly Zone" just like Obama's temporary house. It's free for the month of Feb.

https://www.noflyzone.org/

Art Eatman
February 15, 2015, 08:51 AM
Cheating is cheating. The drone deal, no matter how much weasel-wording is used, is still aerial scouting. "Don't be that guy," said the game warden.

WestKentucky
February 15, 2015, 09:16 AM
For the majority of folks the cost of a drone would make it unreasonable. For folks who can afford one, they can afford a petting zoo hunt. I don't see this being a huge issue, but I do suspect that other states will officially address it. I just hope they word it carefully.

X-Rap
February 15, 2015, 09:22 AM
If you follow the 3 day, 24 hour, or what ever your state mandates waiting period prior to hunting then go for it.
I suspect that drones and satellite imagery will play an ever increasing roll in hunting just as it will in other aspects of our lives.
I'm sure today for the right price, real time satellite views are available, that together with quiet battery powered drones, the work of our F&G departments is in for some tough work.

buck460XVR
February 15, 2015, 10:12 AM
For the majority of folks the cost of a drone would make it unreasonable. For folks who can afford one, they can afford a petting zoo hunt. I don't see this being a huge issue, but I do suspect that other states will officially address it. I just hope they word it carefully.


Just like any other hi-tech technology, cost goes down considerably after a while. Look at computers and LED TVs. I remember when GPS's were only for the very rich and considered a luxury item for hunting. Now every Joe Blow has it on their basic cell phone. Used to be a closed circuit T.V. system for home security was thousands of dollars. Now you can get a system for under $100. Folks are already paying $200 a piece for a scent blocker coat and a pair of pants to hunt, they have a $300 range finder and a $900 bow. They've spent $2000 to plant food plots and have a $1000 brush hog to clear shooting lanes. A $400 drone would be nuttin' to keep an eye on the other side of the property when on stand and to see something coming from the neighbors. For a guide service that wants to put their clients on game quickly, a drone is cheaper than another grunt driving around with binos.

The use of drones for hunting deer is already illegal in Wisconsin. But scouting is another thing, as is proving the drone is being actively used for hunting. Some Folks tend to stretch or bend the rules, and generally have some form of justification. If there's a way to cheat and give themselves an advantage....they will. Wisconsin used to have a law about the use of electronics when hunting deer. This law forbid folks from using walkie-talkies to alert other hunters in their party about deer movement and location. Back then it was easy for Wardens to monitor walkie-talkie frequencies for enforcement. Then came cell phones and the privacy that came with them. That law has gone out the window. Seeing as how one can monitor multiple trail cameras from their cell phones, what real advantage would a drone have on smaller pieces of property?

CraigC
February 15, 2015, 11:29 AM
For folks who can afford one, they can afford a petting zoo hunt.
Not really. You can get a drone with a camera for $1200 or less. I know, I have one and could've done it for under $1000. In an age where people buy their kids $500 cell phones, $400 gaming consoles and hundreds more in games, it's not really a big deal.

I also don't see the connection between using technology to aid in scouting WILD DEER and shooting high fence pets. :scrutiny:

I don't see any moral or ethical issues in using them for scouting. I also see no problem with the restrictions about how soon you can hunt after flying. They 'might' also prove very useful in detecting poaching and trespassing. ;)

Schwing
February 15, 2015, 11:51 AM
The whole "Drone" thing makes my blood boil. As someone who has been involved with RC flying for decades, the stories and terminology bandied about by the media are just as bad as what we suffer as "Gun nuts".

I never equated FPV (first person video) flying to "Drones" until the media had a slow news week and started running stories about it. While I don't do this I have many friends and relatives who do. It is nothing more than flying an RC plane through a video feed from the plane. This gives you the sensation of flying the plane as if you were in the cockpit.

It is immensely fun, can be very challenging and is completely harmless... Of course, just like firearms, there are a very small minority using them for nefarious purposes (spying on neighbors, poaching etc). I know dozens of people who do this and, just like my shooting friends, I have yet to meet one involved with any of these practices.

It is another hobby that is going to be regulated, demeaned and labeled as something it is not.

4thPointOfContact
February 15, 2015, 12:21 PM
The whole "Drone" thing makes my blood boil. As someone who has been involved with RC flying for decades, the stories and terminology bandied about by the media are just as bad as what we suffer as "Gun nuts".
Gawd, YES. I was flying RC aircraft way back in the 80's. I never knew I was some high-falutin' "drone operator".

"Drone" is to "radio control toy airplane/helicopter" as "Assault Rifles" are to "AR-15" Terminology is important people, stop being taken in.

Andrew Leigh
February 15, 2015, 12:43 PM
Would the use of Drones not be the next progressive step up from Trail Camera's. They are both remote devices that records the activity and locations of game, the one is simply more efficient than the other.

I am not in favour of either.

They used to do that in Africa, fly in a rich client by helicopter to within a couple of 100 yards of the Elephant, shoot it, hunter triumphantly places his foot on the dead animal for the mandatory photo shoot and back into the chopper and back to the Hotel. Some times the hunt and photo shoot would last no more than 10 - 15 minutes. Please tell me we are not headed back there.

utvolsfan77
February 15, 2015, 12:46 PM
Use of drones for hunting have been illegal in Tennessee for several years.

Jason_W
February 15, 2015, 01:03 PM
If we combine drones with Tracking Point and the right software, we won't even have to get out of bed to kill game. Just send a robot to do it. Progress.

What's the appeal of "hunting" if minimal to no human involvement or interaction with nature is involved? God forbid anyone take the time to develop a little woodsmanship.

TimSr
February 15, 2015, 01:19 PM
Would the use of Drones not be the next progressive step up from Trail Camera's.

One operates 24/7 without the aid of a human and typically you have to go to it to find out where game WAS when it took the picture. I do have issues with the IP cams that send pictures to your phone in real time while hunting.

I too hate the word "drone" as it makes people envision a military weapon armed with missiles. I do not know of anyone advocating arming remote control aircraft to "hunt" with.

I think they would be useless for "scouting", other than viewing large animals that happen to be in the area that can be seen from overhead at the time. They are not much good for locating tracks and trails. They would be good for visually scouting terrain, which I already do with google satellite maps.

I don't think they should be used within the hunting season, or immediately before, as they could be used to move, route, or herd large game.

I think they could be a great tool for landowners that do not law people lawfully hunting on their land.

I think they could be valuable for wildlife biologists. I think they are too invasive for law enforcement to be used without probable cause. I hunt for privacy and solitude, and don't want big brother hovering over me unless there is just cause that I might be committing a crime.

H&Hhunter
February 15, 2015, 01:20 PM
The use of "drones" for hunting game animals NO, NEVER!!!

The use of drones for eliminating invasive and damaging species such as hogs? Plausible. As was mentioned above you can get into a very capable drone with first person view/recording capability "drone" quad r for about $1,000. A fixed wing with camera and FPV is even cheaper. So the cost factor is very doable and getting cheaper all the time. I'm sure that poaching via drone assistance has been done and we will hear about more and more of it as time goes on. Don't be that dirt bag/criminal.

CraigC
February 15, 2015, 03:58 PM
What is a drone but an R/C aircraft with a FPV camera??? That's one distinction. Radio control aircraft are exactly that, aircraft controlled strictly by a hand held radio transmitter. A "drone" can operated the same way but typically will have one or even two cameras affixed and can also have a GPS and fly pre-determined flightpaths at pre-determined altitude, taking a pre-determined amount of video footage, at pre-determined times with no other input required from the user. I don't know if "drone" is the best term to use but there is a significant difference between normal RC aircraft and what we refer to as "drones".

Let us not forget that they were spotting elephants and other large game in Africa nearly a hundred years ago.

There's some guys with videos on YouTube who use RC aircraft with FLIR cameras attached to spot wild hogs at night. Definitely useful for that.

As for spotting deer, let's be realistic. It is only good for scouting deer movements. You're not going to find trails, rubs or scrapes. You're sure as hell not gonna spot one and then walk up to it and shoot it.


God forbid anyone take the time to develop a little woodsmanship.
Some folks learned their woodsmanship in their youth but can no longer wander the hills all day on foot. Might be useful for those with less mobility. Personally, I can't get around as well as I used to because of problems with my feet. Don't be so quick to judge.

Jason_W
February 15, 2015, 04:17 PM
Some folks learned their woodsmanship in their youth but can no longer wander the hills all day on foot. Might be useful for those with less mobility. Personally, I can't get around as well as I used to because of problems with my feet. Don't be so quick to judge.

When I was in college, I used to go hunting and shooting with an older gentleman who was suffering from mobility issues. He would take up a stand and I would pound the brush in order to push game toward him. He bagged a few deer this way.

The point being, there are ways for people of varying physical ability to hunt without resorting to yet more loud, obnoxious, surveillance technology.

And I guarantee that it won't be long before someone takes the tech to its logical conclusion and designs an armed drone with which to terminate game while the operator comfortably sips coffee at his desk.

CraigC
February 15, 2015, 04:42 PM
He would take up a stand and I would pound the brush in order to push game toward him. He bagged a few deer this way.
And I suppose every old man in 2015 has an eager young guy willing to drive game to him? Spotting them from the sky days if not weeks prior is less sporting than a driven hunt? It's might be more efficient but how is this less sporting than stationary game cameras?


...without resorting to yet more loud, obnoxious, surveillance technology.
Like four wheelers or 4x4 trucks? If it's your property, what does it matter?


I guarantee that it won't be long before someone takes the tech to its logical conclusion and designs an armed drone with which to terminate game while the operator comfortably sips coffee at his desk.
The world might end tomorrow, what does that matter?

H&Hhunter
February 15, 2015, 08:40 PM
Let us not forget that they were spotting elephants and other large game in Africa nearly a hundred years ago.


What? Please explain what you are talking about here. Are you saying that they were using RC aircraft with FPV cameras 100 years ago?:confused:

Flintknapper
February 15, 2015, 08:50 PM
I can see spotting/locating feral hogs with a drone as an ethical 'aid' to controlling them.

The 'kid' in me would be tempted to 'buzz' coyotes crossing our pasture or 'bust up' a murder of crows...roosting in a tree, so maybe I shouldn't have one. :D

Andrew Leigh
February 16, 2015, 12:48 AM
Technology should be embraced and a remote aircraft with GPS & Video and Photo ability would be great in the game management field for conducting the annual census, tracking known large tusker's in Africa, looking for poachers, checking boundary fences, managing waterholes etc.

In the context of rifle hunting, for me is about a "fair chase" where the hunter requires bush craft, tracking skills and the ability to shoot against a quarry that is able to move freely and flee. The entire process of the hunt culminates in a successful shot taking 0.3s to reach the target, it is the events leading up to this that are really the hunt. Don't hit me with the "then get into a loin cloth and grab a spear" argument as since the advent of the rifle, we all understand rifle hunting in context.

So personally "drones" will not constitute any part of my hunting gear. Hunting for me has certain no's, don't knock them as they are my personal hunting ethic which I am not forcing on you but simply informing you of where I stand on the matter. If your hunting ethic is different then all good and well. The following are not for me;

- I do not hunt with a moderator, it suppresses the source of the sound and will often allow the hunter another shot at another animal as they battle to pick up the source of the danger. Many local hunting farms are starting to insist on moderators as the have less of a spooking effect on the game and hunters have more success in the latter periods of the season. I will use a moderator if culling.
- I do not shoot from a blind.
- I do not shoot from a vehicle, unless formally culling.
- I do not shoot if the animal is at water, a feed spot or a lick.
- I do not shoot at night under spotlight, unless formally culling.
- I do not shoot cow's or ewe's in breeding season.

Imagine being a game ranch owner. You send your drone up and continue to scout. Find a nice Kudu bull then send your tracker and client in a truck, locate the bull and shoot it. How much hunting enjoyment could one possibly get from that experience? What do you talk about at the fire at night? "Well we were drinking coffee waiting for the drone to locate a good bull ........."

jmorris
February 16, 2015, 01:34 AM
Never used RC planes to scout for game, but have had cameras on them before.

The most "cheating" I have done was to use homemade radios to alert when hogs were at our bait areas.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/attachment.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/attachment-1.jpg

I never crashed one, work just as good at night as they do during the day, cost almost nothing to run, can be doing something constructive (or not) while they are keeping tabs for you, will even wake you up when they are there. All things that a drone won't do.

I had a remote killing device almost complete for the varmints before my State outlawed such practice, so we just did it "Indian style" for a while as it was better than nothing (or just waiting on them). When they got too bad we just let the fellows with dogs run them down and get rid of them.

rcmodel
February 16, 2015, 01:49 AM
Having flew R/C aircraft for 20 years, and hunted for 60?

I never was man enough to pack all the gear necessary for either endeavor into the field both at the same time!

I suppose if you had guides using drones, and gun-bearers to carry your guns?
It could be done.

But it wouldn't be 'Fair Chase' hunting by any definition of ethical Sport Hunting.

rc

jmr40
February 16, 2015, 06:02 AM
For pre-season scouting I have no problem. It reality it isn't much different than using google earth to get an idea of the terrain. Not much different than the guy who puts up multiple game cameras either. Much more ethical than using bait and that is legal in many places.

I wouldn't want to see them legal if used on the same day you hunted.

Patocazador
February 16, 2015, 08:37 AM
They used to do that in Africa, fly in a rich client by helicopter to within a couple of 100 yards of the Elephant, shoot it, hunter triumphantly places his foot on the dead animal for the mandatory photo shoot and back into the chopper and back to the Hotel. Some times the hunt and photo shoot would last no more than 10 - 15 minutes. Please tell me we are not headed back there.

You don't need a drone to be a cheater .. but I imagine it would help.
I had a friend who struck out hunting lions in Idaho in the '70s. The outfitter later treed a cat, had a guy sit at the base of the tree with a couple of dogs and wait until this ex-friend flew to Idaho, drove near the site and shot the lion.

Whoo-hoo! Bigshot hunter killed a lion. Wow! ..... GAG!! :barf:

Sav .250
February 16, 2015, 09:08 AM
That`s a good question. You can bet some State DNR`s are looking into it.

Including new regs that speak to the issue.

If they don`t regulate the done issue , some will have them flying all over the place.

oneounceload
February 16, 2015, 10:28 AM
that together with quiet battery powered drones, the work of our F&G departments is in for some tough work.

I disagree as they can use them to get more accurate wildlife counts and access areas previous too inaccessible. If poachers can use drones for spotting game, then the wardens can also use them to spot the poachers and cover more area. When I lived in NV there were 10 game wardens, each with an area of approximately 10,000 square MILES of territory to cover.

CraigC
February 16, 2015, 10:48 AM
What? Please explain what you are talking about here. Are you saying that they were using RC aircraft with FPV cameras 100 years ago?
They were using aircraft to spot herds of elephants, then landing to hunt them. Google Beryl Markham.

Berger.Fan222
February 16, 2015, 10:59 AM
Most aspects of American life, including hunting and fishing, need less government regulation rather than more.

Limits on take and seasons can be used to preserve sustainable populations for future generations.

Criminalization of methods usually represents more jealousy and wrangling whereby one group of citizens attempts to assert domination over another through the pretense of scientific need and republican process.

H&Hhunter
February 16, 2015, 11:04 AM
They were using aircraft to spot herds of elephants, then landing to hunt them. Google Beryl Markham.

I've read the book. Thanks for clarifying.

Jason_W
February 16, 2015, 12:35 PM
Most aspects of American life, including hunting and fishing, need less government regulation rather than more.

Limits on take and seasons can be used to preserve sustainable populations for future generations.

Criminalization of methods usually represents more jealousy and wrangling whereby one group of citizens attempts to assert domination over another through the pretense of scientific need and republican process.

I don't know about more or less regulation, but I'm all for smart streamlined laws.

My concerns about RC drones (which I admit are just RC toy aircraft with advanced optics that weren't small enough or advanced enough to put on a flying toy 10 years ago) aren't limited to the world of hunting.

It's that they represent additional erosion of privacy and quiet enjoyment of any part of the world. It's bad enough that the government is monitoring my every communication I make and that I'm on camera probably 50 times during a trip to the grocery store. Now we have to potentially worry about our jackwagon neighbors filming what we do in our private, fenced in backyards.

As the tech relates to hunting and fishing, I can envision a time in the not so distant future where you can't go anywhere, no matter how remote or hard to access on foot without someone's toy buzzing around you. Additionally, anti hunting groups have already started to use toy drones to disrupt lawful hunting activities. While that's illegal in most states, It's going to be difficult to enforce as it could be hard or impossible to prove that the drone operator was doing so for the purpose of disrupting hunting activities.

I'm by no means a Luddite. I think technology can be a great thing. Antibiotics are amazing and I'm in no hurry to trade indoor plumbing for a hole I dug out back. My issue is that in the last 20 years or so, most technological advancement has seemed devoted to making the world a more obnoxious and intrusive place. Sustainable nuclear fusion power plants? A cure for cancer? Warp drive? Forget that noise, check out this pocket sized device that will allow me to watch internet video while I drive or this flying camera that lets me photograph the neighbors wife while she sunbathes in her private fenced in yard. Yay progress!

SleazyRider
February 16, 2015, 01:06 PM
Never thought of it as cheating, but for years I've taken my 70-year old Cub up for a bit of aerial scouting before the season begins. From an aerial point-of-view, it's easy to distinguish heavily used trails from those that are used less frequently, and I set up my game camera accordingly. It's also good to know who's planting what and where. Maybe it's time for me to check the regulations in New York State lest I run afoul of the law.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq315/Magnageek/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/user/Magnageek/media/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg.html)

Art Eatman
February 16, 2015, 01:18 PM
Scouting seems to me to be legit. Gives a good idea of where critters are hanging out. It's the same-day hunt/shoot that strikes me as unethical.

Jason_W
February 16, 2015, 01:19 PM
Never thought of it as cheating, but for years I've taken my 70-year old Cub up for a bit of aerial scouting before the season begins. From an aerial point-of-view, it's easy to distinguish heavily used trails from those that are used less frequently, and I set up my game camera accordingly. It's also good to know who's planting what and where. Maybe it's time for me to check the regulations in New York State lest I run afoul of the law.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq315/Magnageek/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/user/Magnageek/media/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg.html)

Checking the laws can't hurt but I doubt it could ever be proven that you're out flying to scout hunting territory rather than just for fun. I'm guessing the authorities start getting bent out of shape when people start hunting from aircraft or using them to harass wildlife.

Choctaw
February 16, 2015, 01:31 PM
As long as it stays on your property and is legal, I don't care what you do. However, I don't want to be buzzed by someone's little toy while on my property.

H&Hhunter
February 16, 2015, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE]However, I don't want to be buzzed by someone's little toy while on my property./QUOTE]

I reckon Triple T or number 2 ought to work wonders on that little problem.

Jason_W
February 16, 2015, 01:39 PM
As long as it stays on your property and is legal, I don't care what you do. However, I don't want to be buzzed by someone's little toy while on my property.
I wouldn't want anyone's little toy hovering over my property.

Does private property have airspace? More murky legal territory to slog through.

Though, if there is such a thing as private property airspace, I could see someone developing interceptor drones for the purpose of taking out the drones of nosey neighbors. That would be kinda cool.

SleazyRider
February 16, 2015, 02:02 PM
I wouldn't want anyone's little toy hovering over my property.

Does private property have airspace? More murky legal territory to slog through.

Though, if there is such a thing as private property airspace, I could see someone developing interceptor drones for the purpose of taking out the drones of nosey neighbors. That would be kinda cool.

Take a gander here: https://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/

oneounceload
February 16, 2015, 02:03 PM
Scouting seems to me to be legit. Gives a good idea of where critters are hanging out. It's the same-day hunt/shoot that strikes me as unethical.

For me there would be a number of factors - was the plane used to "herd" the animals towards a certain topographical area better conducive to landing the plane and just shooting them? I mean, if you use a plane for same day scouting but still have to land miles away and then go and find them again, is that really cheating? Especially compared to folks who use feeders all year long as bait to keep them close to their elevated comfy deer stand? If you're using a helicopter where you can scare and herd them and land right there, that should get you skinned alive, especially if it is a poaching scenario. As long as the final aspect of the hunt is fair chase, preceding scouting does not seem unethical to me.

notaglockfanboy
February 16, 2015, 02:32 PM
It should not be allowed. If it were allowed, pretty soon you would fashion a way to mount your rifle to it and just sit in your truck all nice and warm, then fashion a hook to retrieve your prey and lay it in the back of the truck for you. Not very sporting if you ask me.:scrutiny:

SleazyRider
February 16, 2015, 04:03 PM
A drone enthusiast would call you an "anti."

Patocazador
February 16, 2015, 04:05 PM
If it gets rampant, it's cheaper than shooting sporting clays. :D

oneounceload
February 16, 2015, 04:10 PM
It should not be allowed. If it were allowed, pretty soon you would fashion a way to mount your rifle to it and just sit in your truck all nice and warm, then fashion a hook to retrieve your prey and lay it in the back of the truck for you. Not very sporting if you ask me

If you can afford a drone that can lift and handle that, I think they call that a helicopter....... :D

TarDevil
February 16, 2015, 04:12 PM
Never thought of it as cheating, but for years I've taken my 70-year old Cub up for a bit of aerial scouting before the season begins. From an aerial point-of-view, it's easy to distinguish heavily used trails from those that are used less frequently, and I set up my game camera accordingly. It's also good to know who's planting what and where. Maybe it's time for me to check the regulations in New York State lest I run afoul of the law.

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq315/Magnageek/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg (http://s459.photobucket.com/user/Magnageek/media/DSCN2353_zpsrktx7aw5.jpg.html)

Hmmmm... I miss that view!

Carry on, guys.

CraigC
February 16, 2015, 08:48 PM
My concerns about RC drones (which I admit are just RC toy aircraft with advanced optics that weren't small enough or advanced enough to put on a flying toy 10 years ago) aren't limited to the world of hunting.
First off, they are not toys. Nor is any other hobby grade R/C. This ain't the $50 crap from the toy aisle at Walmart. They are very expensive, high sophisticated machines that are not to be confused with the toy grade garbage that doesn't last a month. So we can dispense with the toy nonsense if we are to have a polite discussion about them.

Secondly, if they are operated on someone else's property, then it is really none of your business. If it is operated on your property, then it is trespassing and that is against the law. I think your concerns about getting "buzzed by someone's toy" are a little silly and unrealistic.

Third, if you check the local weather forecast to plan your trips afield, you are already taking advantage of some of the most advanced technology available to mankind. Laser range finders? Modern optics? Sometimes you have to step back from the emotional rhetoric and kneejerk reactions and look at it from every angle. The point being, we all use technological advances to our advantage and mankind has always done so. We also have the choice as to how much technology we utilize afield (e.g. primitive vs modern weaponry, ATV's vs on foot, optics vs iron sights, etc.).

H&Hhunter
February 16, 2015, 09:41 PM
Craig,

Are we really going to get our feelings hurt over the proper terminology of an RC airplane?

CraigC
February 17, 2015, 12:20 AM
Feelings hurt? Absolutely not. I don't get my feelings hurt over anonymous internet drivel. I just don't care for the obviously condescending tone in the use of the word "toy". Sorry, I don't have patience for veiled insults. It has NOTHING to do with "proper terminology". This ain't a clip vs magazine thang.

Art Eatman
February 17, 2015, 09:46 AM
"The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys."

I tend to look at anything that's not used for some commercial purpose as a toy. Sure, I enjoy my toys: Guns, high-performance cars, Cessna 172s, all that stuff. But they're not really necessary for my comfortable survival through my lifetime.

(A rifle is a whole different deal for someone like caribou.)

IOW, it's the style of usage, rather than the thing itself.

So, for all that I have had a lot of satisfaction from the many toys I've had through the years, they're still just toys.

Amazon.com would like to use drones for a commercial purpose. For the vast majority of us, however, they're merely toys.

Choctaw
February 17, 2015, 10:32 AM
You are spot on, Art. I refer to my hunting guns and fun guns as toys. It is simply how I use the term. They are items I like to have but are not necessary to my survival or income. However, the sidearm I wear to work and the black plastic rifle I use are not toys. They are serious tools.

CraigC, if you were referring to my post, I wasn't making a "veiled insult." My comment wasn't directed at anyone. However, I don't feel the need to change my vocabulary to suit you and your chosen hobbies.

Jason_W
February 17, 2015, 11:55 AM
Secondly, if they are operated on someone else's property, then it is really none of your business. If it is operated on your property, then it is trespassing and that is against the law. I think your concerns about getting "buzzed by someone's toy" are a little silly and unrealistic.



Horizontal property lines are pretty cut and dried, but what about vertical?

And no, I really don't care if you use an RC drone to photograph every inch of your own property. I just know people as a whole and if a new technology can be made intrusive and obnoxious, it will be used in such a manner.

You can get as angry as you want regarding my personal personal opinion of civilian surveillance drones, but it's a waste of energy. Ultimately, the tech will win and violations of laws governing said tech will prove unenforceable.

Just because something is an inevitability doesn't mean I have to like it.

short barrel
February 17, 2015, 12:08 PM
If someone's drone hovers over your property, would the landowner be guilty of anything illegal if he shot it down? Vandalism?

H&Hhunter
February 17, 2015, 12:15 PM
Horizontal property lines are pretty cut and dried, but what about vertical?


Jason,

That is a really good question with some very shady legal definitions and case law.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/08/land-much-really-right/

A friend of mine here in Colorado is a big time RC/Quadcopter "drone" guy with all the toys. The general belief is that here in Colorado as long as you or the device in your control is above 50' over the ground you are not trespassing. Whether or not that has any legal teeth remains to be seen I'm guessing.

The whole subject of UAV 's and proper use and airspace integration is a huge hot button issue with the FAA at the moment and will continue to be a headache with much legal wrangling for years to come. But make no mistake they are coming.

Jason_W
February 17, 2015, 12:34 PM
Jason,

That is a really good question with some very shady legal definitions and case law.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/08/land-much-really-right/

A friend of mine here in Colorado is a big time RC/Quadcopter "drone" guy with all the toys. The general belief is that here in Colorado as long as you or the device in your control is above 50' over the ground you are not trespassing. Whether or not that has any legal teeth remains to be seen I'm guessing.

The whole subject of UAV 's and proper use and airspace integration is a huge hot button issue with the FAA at the moment and will continue to be a headache with much legal wrangling for years to come. But make no mistake they are coming.

I would personally be pretty upset if a camera equipped drone was circling 50 or even 100 feet above my house.

In terms of outdoor recreation especially concerning state or federal land, this is going to be yet another front in the clash between what I call quiet enjoyment folk (hikers, canoeists, bird watchers, etc.) vs. loud enjoyment folk (ATV/dirtbike enthusiasts, jet ski owners, etc.).

H&Hhunter
February 17, 2015, 12:52 PM
I would personally be pretty upset if a camera equipped drone was circling 50 or even 100 feet above my house.

I don't think that you are alone with that sentiment...

Art Eatman
February 17, 2015, 05:31 PM
"It looked like a hawk, going after my chickens..."

SleazyRider
February 17, 2015, 07:01 PM
Here's some exciting drone footage that demonstrates their efficacy in combat:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/eBEU-OiEvII .

yzguy87
February 17, 2015, 08:04 PM
I wouldn't use one to hunt game animals but I would use one to cull invasive species like coyote and hogs

H&Hhunter
February 17, 2015, 08:04 PM
Here's some exciting drone footage that demonstrates their efficacy in combat:


Sleazy,

That is IR footage from an Apache Attack helicopter not a drone.

Besides that fact that we are talking about little unarmed civilian RC aircraft in this thread, not military weaponized multimillion dollar, secure satellite controlled drones.

oneounceload
February 17, 2015, 08:17 PM
Horizontal property lines are pretty cut and dried, but what about vertical?

At one time I worked for a utility out West and our transmission lines from a power plant crossed over the UP tracks and yes, we paid rent for vertical space. (And it was not cheap)

jmorris
February 17, 2015, 09:29 PM
My first time to post a NY times link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/us/13ttporkchopper.html

Flintknapper
February 17, 2015, 10:07 PM
A friend of mine here in Colorado is a big time RC/Quadcopter "drone" guy with all the toys. The general belief is that here in Colorado as long as you or the device in your control is above 50' over the ground you are not trespassing.

I suspect in 'real life' anything out of shotgun range is probably a safer bet.

(It would be around my house anyway).

Andrew Leigh
February 17, 2015, 10:18 PM
I suppose the results of google earth are not too dissimilar from what you would get from a drone, you simply would get better detail with a drone as you can employ it to specific tasks.

Privacy as we knew it is dead and buried.

I suppose the bottom line is that like with many technologies they have the capacity to be both good and evil depending on the user and the desired outcome. The drone fits this bill well and that is why legislation will be required to control the use of drones.

jmorris
February 24, 2015, 10:43 AM
I went to a friends place over the weekend and snapped this photo.

You might have to zoom in the center to see it but there was a helicopter flying under 100', in some cases well under.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20150221_093900_933_zpsb1d8e56e.jpg

Had every animal running around over 2100 acres in less than a half hour with a few passes.

3212
February 24, 2015, 11:09 AM
I hate the whole idea and one hovering over my property is going to be mistaken for a crow.

Art Eatman
February 24, 2015, 11:27 AM
Are we done with the issue of scouting/hunting?

H&Hhunter
February 24, 2015, 11:56 AM
Are we done with the issue of scouting/hunting?

I used to have a Scout International truck?;)

But I reckon the fat lady has just about sung on this Art.....

Officers'Wife
February 24, 2015, 12:23 PM
We have one batch of "sportsmen" in the area that will take a thicket and have two or three ppl walk through it driving the deer into the guns of those waiting at the other end. A couple of drones would probably save them a lot of boot leather and make them less likely to take a deerslug.

H&Hhunter
February 24, 2015, 07:12 PM
We have one batch of "sportsmen" in the area that will take a thicket and have two or three ppl walk through it driving the deer into the guns of those waiting at the other end.
That is called a "push" or a "drive" it is an age old technique. I'm not sure why it would be frowned upon?

Art Eatman
February 24, 2015, 08:43 PM
As long as we're wandering: Our deer-lease bunch would occasionally do what might be called a "sweep" of a valley. Maybe four or five of us would spread out in a line and work up-slope for a mile or so and top out on a ridge.

If a shootable buck jumped up, usually the uphill guy on the upwind side would get a shot.

If a little four-pointer jumped up, somebody always screamed, "Shoot him! Shoot him!", hoping somebody would get sucked into it. If it happened, we'd then all gather around and ask, "Aw, why'd you have to go and shoot that poor little old nubbin critter?" :D

oneounceload
February 24, 2015, 09:34 PM
We have one batch of "sportsmen" in the area that will take a thicket and have two or three ppl walk through it driving the deer into the guns of those waiting at the other end.

Here in FL, it is the preferred method of running deer; when I liven in ND, it was the preferred method or hunting pheasant ( in Europe it is still the method)

To ME it is far more sporting than sitting in a stand over a feeder or food plot as it is done here in the East

jmorris
February 24, 2015, 11:24 PM
Quote:
We have one batch of "sportsmen" in the area that will take a thicket and have two or three ppl walk through it driving the deer into the guns of those waiting at the other end.

That is called a "push" or a "drive" it is an age old technique. I'm not sure why it would be frowned upon?


If you substitute two of the people for trucks and a 100 yards of cable between them for the 3rd guy and are going after pheasant, I think that is considered "cheating".

Jason_W
February 25, 2015, 01:00 PM
Here in FL, it is the preferred method of running deer; when I liven in ND, it was the preferred method or hunting pheasant ( in Europe it is still the method)

To ME it is far more sporting than sitting in a stand over a feeder or food plot as it is done here in the East
Some states have banned both baiting and deer drives. Maine, for instances, where I just moved from, does not allow either.

Vermont, where I grew up, banned baiting a few years ago. Before it was illegal, I remember putting out piles of apples in the woods during deer season. The deer ate them, all right, in the dead of night far removed from legal shooting hours.

The fair chase line has to be drawn somewhere.

jrdolall
February 25, 2015, 01:15 PM
I use Google Earth all the time to scout out a new piece of property. I use trail cameras to scout a certain spot on my property.
If I felt that using some sort of drone to find where Mr Big was hanging out I wouldn't mind it. As a matter of fact I already know where he is. He is in the creek bottom where nobody can go without spooking him out. He occasionally visits a rye field at 1 AM. Unless they come up with a drone with night vision that will somehow fly by itself and notify me when he steps out then I don't really see any advantage gained by scouting with a drone other than getting the same view I can get with Google Earth. I can see some of my deer stands using Google.

Officers'Wife
February 25, 2015, 01:23 PM
If you substitute two of the people for trucks and a 100 yards of cable between them for the 3rd guy and are going after pheasant, I think that is considered "cheating".
My main concern is that eventually some "buck fever" idiot is going to put a rifle ball through one of the "drivers" which will raise liability insurance on every land owner that allows hunting in the immediate area.

Indiana has banned "baiting" for as long as I remember. Enough so that we are shy about having mineral blocks "salt blocks" in the far pastures that may be close to hunting areas.

oneounceload
February 25, 2015, 08:21 PM
Some states have banned both baiting and deer drives. Maine, for instances, where I just moved from, does not allow either.


When I lived in NV, not only was it illegal to bait, you couldn't camp within a certain distance at a waterhole or spring. They would take everything including your truck and gun.

Jason_W
February 25, 2015, 11:08 PM
When I lived in NV, not only was it illegal to bait, you couldn't camp within a certain distance at a waterhole or spring. They would take everything including your truck and gun.
States with lower deer populations tend to be more stringent on methods of take.

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