What is the current replacement for F4-G?


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Sprig
February 7, 2003, 06:11 AM
Simple enough question.

Since I was a little worried about this issue before I realized the fact that Iraq hasn't been able to shoot down any of our planes despite the decommision. I suppose its a non-issue for Iraq.

However, the second question, what is the replacement if we have the need, say in NK?

Thanks,
Sprig

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Apple a Day
February 7, 2003, 06:28 AM
I believe the "Wild Weasel" type missions are flown by pilots in F-16s now. For a while they worked in tandem with the Phantom using its GIB playing with the electronic sniffers to direct the more nimble Falcons onto target.
NK?

Sprig
February 7, 2003, 06:32 AM
NK= North Korea.

Whats GIB ??? "Guy In Back"??? ....

I'd like to see what happens to you if ever said such a statement to one... I made an almost similar mistake ... ONLY ONCE...

Sprig

Sprig
February 7, 2003, 06:37 AM
Now I remember ... I asked how he liked being a "Whizzo", and he promptly let me know he was an "Ewo", in a manner such that despite my best efforts to forget, I still remember.

BTW, what's an F-16? ... I faintly remember some expendible flying things resemebeling an overgrown Lawn Dart ....

Sprig

sensop
February 7, 2003, 07:31 AM
F-16CJ.

F-15E Strike Eagle, AKA: Mud Hen, is also a very capable platform.

Whatever the USN is planning to replace the EA-6B with (F-18?), it leaves some very big shoes to fill.

Dorrin79
February 7, 2003, 07:46 AM
A F-16 Falcon variant was slated to replace F4-Gs in the late 80's.

I think we were still using F4s in Gulf War I.

I don't know if the switchover was ever made -fas.org does list an "Enemy Air Defense Suppression" variant.

Fas.org - F16 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-16.htm)

I don't see anything referring to the use of the F-15E as a Wild Weasel, at least specifically.

FAS.org - F15 (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm)

hope this helps...

M1911
February 7, 2003, 08:04 AM
The F16CJ has taken over the Wild Weasel role. It can fire the HARM missile.

Detritus
February 7, 2003, 08:10 AM
thought that as well as EWO and GIB, that some of the F-4G backseaters were still trying to get the nickname "Bear" (as in responds to fire like an old shooting gallery bear eg "turn around and roar") to stick? anyone know if that was true or if the nickname died out after the F-105F/G days...

Tom C.
February 7, 2003, 09:36 AM
The F-4Gs were last used in '91 in the sand box. The Air Force replacement is a version of the F-16. They work with the Navy EA-6Bs and F/A-18s to take out the surface to air threats. Currently, the EA-6B is the joint service electronic attack aircraft. It is getting pretty old and is scheduled to be replaced by a variant of the F/A-18 called the EA-18G. I believe the Air Force is planning to make a version of the F-15 for the same mission.
The old Iron Hand and Wild weasal missions of the F-105 and F-4G in Viet Nam were just a good way to get killed. The current capabilities are much better.

dude
February 7, 2003, 12:19 PM
still not a fun job though......as we lost two F-4Gs and one crew during the Gulf War

George Hill
February 7, 2003, 12:40 PM
Israel is still using the mighty F-4 Phantom II.
They have upgraded them, and tweaked them... They are great attack planes.

Thumper
February 7, 2003, 12:40 PM
EA-6B is the Prowler, right?

Destructo6
February 7, 2003, 01:31 PM
The F4 has some nasty flight characteristics, such as nose-up stall attitude and others as one of my bro's squadron members found out less than a year ago.

What's wrong with calling them "guys in back"? They're typically refered to as, "backseaters" in the Navy.

noklue3
February 7, 2003, 02:11 PM
The "GIB's" were RIO's (Radar Intercept Officers) when I was in-68-72. I flew back seat in F4-J's as a Sgt with a "seat card" (Two week class and strap u in) was a blast, and didn't puke once.

Art

Navy joe
February 7, 2003, 03:22 PM
Ea-6B is the Prowler. Most in demand aircraft in the inventory. With the Navy as stated the F-18s and EA-6B work in tandem, Very common for F-18s to fly with a 4 HARM loadout, with the Prowler providing electronic suppression. SEAD missions encompass everyone eventually. Remember the Apache stunt in the Gulf war of sneaking up and blasting the crap out of search radar positions with Hellfire? Any aircraft that can drop a weapon can usually do something about enemy air defenses. Dunno, but I'm guessing that a fair amount of NK's aerial defense hardware is within range of land based artillery or coastal bombardment. Throw in a few Tomahawks and you got a great party.

Jmurman
February 7, 2003, 03:57 PM
I saw where we are using the British Jaguar for recon...I dont think they are WW's.

Mike Irwin
February 7, 2003, 04:35 PM
I thought F-111s were Wild Weaseling these days?

Detritus
February 7, 2003, 06:04 PM
the EF-111 "sparkvark" is a jamming aircraft, never heard of one being used for WW, don't mean it never happened. but from all i've seen and heard, it's more if an "electonic snowplow" as in, makes a jamming "corridor" through the Air Defense radars that the strike force flies through.

Dorrin79
February 7, 2003, 07:28 PM
The F/B-111 has been retired from service.

The E/F-111 Raven electronic warfare craft is still used, IIRC, by the Air Force

It is not, however, a WW - Wild Weasel refers to a craft which is designed to seek out and destroy enemy air defences. The various E-craft are designed to jam and spoof enemy detection systems - although I would imagine the two types of craft often work together.

Apple a Day
February 7, 2003, 08:58 PM
My apologies to all the Electronic Warfare Officers who were offended by the GIB reference. :neener:
Cheez... so uptight!

Gewehr98
February 7, 2003, 10:01 PM
E/F-111 Ravens are also retired from USAF service. Only the RAAF uses the F/B-111, and once McClellan AFB shut down, they had to come up with their own depot level repair facilities. Matter of fact, Air Force folks are flying on the replacement jamming aircraft - the Navy E/A-6B Prowler. Yup, Air Force Prowler crews, pulling carrier duty, woohoo!

As for high-demand, low density aircraft, there are several, the E/A-6B Prowler doesn't own that category. Ask the folks in the RC-135 Rivet Joint, Cobra Ball, Combat Sent, or WC-135 Constant Phoenix! :D

F4GIB
February 8, 2003, 12:51 AM
There's nothing wrong with "GIB" to denote the brainy part of the aircrew.

UnknownSailor
February 8, 2003, 01:51 AM
Lemme explain:

No, Air Force crews do not fly EA-6Bs. What they do get is what are called Expeditionary squadrons, which are Navy squadrons, that deploy like the Air Force, to Air Force bases. They go to Incirluk(sp?) Turkey, and Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia.

One of my friends is in PSAB as I type. I'm collecting his mail for him, for when he gets back.

EF-111 are gone. (and the Air Force kicks itself every day that they did get rid of it). F-16s do the Wild Weasel thing, now. I don't believe that the F-16s have much in the way of special electronics; they are just wired up to fly and fire HARMs.

EA-6B still doesn't have an official replacement, yet, but the rumors are an F/A-18 E/F model will be used. Called the Growler.

Sprig
February 8, 2003, 04:36 AM
Hey UnknownSailor,

Quick question, I can find the answer, I used to know, but have forgotten...

Wasn't the current HARM initialy "DESIGNED" for use with the F4-G?

I thought some of the onboard electronics could send data to the missles.

I might be misremembering. Sounds like you might know.

I have known these following boxes quite intimately ... APX-76, KY-532, APN-155, KIT, KIR, ARC-164, AM-2349boatanchor ... and maybe a few others I just can seem drag the numbers out of the grey parts of my mind.

Sprig

UnknownSailor
February 8, 2003, 02:33 PM
Avionics bubba I'm not. I work in supply.

I just happen to be currently assigned to the NAS where all the EA-6B squadrons are based at. I also am due to report to one in August.

As far as I know, the HARM wasn't specifically designed for one particular plane.

Tom C.
February 8, 2003, 03:21 PM
The EA-6B is the only electronic attack tactical aircraft currently in the inventory. They are flown by Navy crews, but the Air Force has assigned personnel to those units, too. The replacement is currently called the EA-18G. Due out later this decade. Hope the old EA-6Bs last that long.

Gewehr98
February 8, 2003, 09:50 PM
Matter of fact, I'm aircrew on one of the other low-density/high-demand platforms I listed above. And this:

No, Air Force crews do not fly EA-6Bs. What they do get is what are called Expeditionary squadrons, which are Navy squadrons, that deploy like the Air Force, to Air Force bases. They go to Incirluk(sp?) Turkey, and Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia.

Flies in the face of this:

SOUTHWEST ASIA — When Capt. Jennifer Rollins hits the “radiate” switches on the console of her jet, a Navy EA-6B Prowler, she unleashes a ton of noisy and deceptive jamming signals on southern Iraq’s combat airwaves.


Once she’s done, pilot Capt. Brett Davis flies the four-person, all-Air Force Prowler crew home for the day. The captains guard coalition lives from their jet on Southern Watch patrols with the 363rd Aerospace Expeditionary Wing’s Prowler aviation unit.


The Prowler has become the military’s main electronic warfare aircraft with a crew that includes sailors, Marines and airmen. Onboard systems generate electronic signals that “hide” incoming and outgoing coalition patrols. This momentarily paralyzes the Iraqi sensors. And that protects the air patrol.


“People don’t get into the Prowler right out of pilot training or ‘nav’ school,” said Rollins, an electronic countermeasures officer. “They have another aircraft. I was from B-1Bs. Our people have all sorts of tactical experience.”


The Prowler experience is a change of scene for some airmen, Davis added.


“I came from an A-10,” the pilot said. “We’re a single-seat airplane. Now I fly three other people.”


Davis said the Air Force and Navy benefit from placing him in a Prowler cockpit.


“Going back to an Air Force tactical airplane, I’ll have a greater understanding of how we can get ourselves into a target area and out of there more safely,” he said.


“The next squadron I go to can learn something from what I’ve learned. From a tactical standpoint, you can’t understand what the Prowler can do for a strike package or a tactical mission until you’re involved in it.”


— Tech. Sgt. John B. Dendy IV

Seen here:

http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0302/world2.html

I assume you're not gonna call me a liar, right?

UnknownSailor
February 9, 2003, 09:55 AM
Well, maybe they fly them over in the sandbox, I dunno. Air Force types don't fly them around Whidbey, when the Expeditionary guys are home. They do go through the Fleet Replacement training squadron, every now and then. Along with Marines.

The only Air Force types I see over where I'm at are from MAC. Herkey bird drivers, usually.

org
February 9, 2003, 11:22 AM
AFAIK, the branches of US military have had aircrew exchange programs with each other and friendly foreign countries for many years. It doesn't involve transfer of aircraft to other branches, and isn't a permanent assignment. Maybe that's what the article is about.

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