[clipse]

What is the most accurate stock(out of the box) pistol being manufactured today? No, custom 1911's from the factory don't count. In my person experience it has been my CZ 75B. What do you guys think?

[Penforhire]

Are you intentionally ignoring high end, not custom, .22's ?

[clipse]

Are you intentionally ignoring high end, not custom, .22's ?

No. Those don't count either. :D


clipse

[Abakan]

No doubt.....SIG 210

[Ultima-Ratio]

The S&W 9mm model 952 is the most accurate factory gun currently produced.

[strambo]

Ruger MKII Government model ought to be able to give a Sig 210 a run for its money. The MKII Gov. certainly ain't high end since it costs about the same as a CZ75. Now if you mean centerfire only...beats me.:confused:

[nero45acp]

SIG 210 or S&W 952.

Though dollar for dollar it's hard to beat a CZ!



nero

[Badger Arms]

My stock Ruger MK-II shooting target loads will outshoot anything centerfire on the range most days.

[clipse]

Ok, so lets say centerfire only then. :D (I need to be more precise)


clipse

[mete]

HK P7 since the barrel is rigidly fastened to the frame.

[BryanP]

If you want to keep it in the realm of us mere mortals and discount the SIG 210 then I'd suggest the SIG P220.

[critter]

mete got it!

[PO2Hammer]

HK USP Elite or Expert in 9mm or .45acp.
I have a hard time calling a SIG P210 or S&W 952 an 'out of the box' pistol, athough they are probably two of the best.
The 952 is from the custom shop, and the SIG is too damn expensive to fit this catagory.

[Sean Smith]

The objectively correct answer to this question is the SIG P210. See the 50 meter test targets for details.

[Ken Rainey]

A lot of variables apply to that question - the tolerances of the weapons fit, the ammo, the shooters ability, etc......For me, It's a Kimber full size .45 (first series) - put 3 rds of a handload in 3/4 inch at 25 yds and 3 rds in 1 1/4 inches at 50 yds free handed. If you consider revolvers, I think that a S&W .38 special revolver with a 4 inch barrel is hard to beat. I have a Glock 26 that amazes me as to how accurate it is - even at 100 yds.

Ken

[Ala Dan]

I have edited this post to include any and all SIG-SAUER
Classic P- series self-loader's. Yes, the P210 sits atop
the heap; followed closely by its DA cousin, the P220.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Sean Smith]

3 rds in 1 1/4 inches at 50 yds free handed.

How big is your 10 round group? 3 rounds can just be luck.

[MX5]

Now Sean, don't be a Doubting Thomas. I once shot a five shot group at fifty yards that I could cover with 25 cents. A nickle here, another one over there...

[rbert0005]

Dan Wesson Patriot.

5 rounds @ 50' into 11/16 diameter.

Bob

[BamBam-31]

By "stock," I'm assuming you mean a pistol more in the realm of Joe Average's price range, right?

Well, I've had really, really good results with my Sig 220 ST, and I've often seen them listed for under $800 NIB. Scary accurate.

[Ken Rainey]

Sean Smith,
Yep, I'm sure it was luck - Good Luck, for me. It's the best group I've ever fired and it was witnessed. Just let'em know what MY most accurate gun was 'out of the box'. I fired the first 3 out of the mag at 25 and it went so well, I had to try it at 50yds and that went well too - the universe was well aligned - well,ok, the wife was happy, the wind wasn't blowin' and I wasn't full of coffee!

Ken

[LeonCarr]

Bone stock Glock 34

10 rounds into one inch at 25 yards.

10 rounds into six inches at 100 yards.

I couldn't believe it either, but I would rather be lucky than good anyday of the week :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Sean Smith]

This isn't directed at anybody on this topic, but most people don't really know what "accurate" even means in a handgun. So to ask a question like that on an open forum is likely to get you alot of contradictory answers, because most of the people posting will, on average, have no clue... but want to pretend that they do.

Also, to be blunt - again not directed at anybody on this topic - gun forums in general are full of people lying about how they shot 1.5" @ 50 yard groups offhand with a handgun. The people making such claims are generally too dumb to realize that 1.5" @ 50 yards is at the bleeding edge of what purpose-built bullseye handguns can actually shoot from a machine rest... thus to claim to actually shoot such a group yourself is to claim, in effect, that your technique is approaching theoretical perfection.

Otherwise known as: being full of crap.

Now, anybody can get lucky and rip off a 3 shot string of tiny size. However, that doesn't prove anything about how good the gun is. There is a reason why accuracy guarantees on purpose-built bullseye guns are for group size based on 10 shots at 50 yards... to rule out the dumb-assed luck factor. Put another way, the odds that a stock Kimber is a "real" 1.25" @ 50 yard gun based on that fairly standard critera hovers somewhere around zero.

5 rounds @ 50' into 11/16 diameter.

That's >2" @ 50 yards, at best. Very good for the price, but inferior to a P210.

[LeonCarr]

Hey Sean,

Most people will claim that their handgun will do this or that, until you invite them and their handgun to the range. Usually that weeds out the non-hackers quickly :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[cratz2]

I'm usually pretty uncomfortable with threads such as this for the reasons so... subtlely detaily by Sean. :p My other pet peeve is when people say that a particular gun will consistantly shoot 2" groups at 50 yards with any ammo they've tried... Again, unless you're just the luckiest SOB in the world, it's not very likely that you have a sub $1,000 centerfire pistol that will hold to 2" at 50 yards with a large variety of ammo.

But... since we're just having fun, I would agree that if Les Baers and Rock Rivers are ruled out, so should the 210 and the 952... That would pretty much leave out P7s though I'd be more likely to include P7s than 210s or 952s. How about this, what centerfire pistol under $1,000 new with minimal (at the max) hand fitting is the most accurate?

For consistancy, I'd still be tempted to say a CZ... Just been pretty consistant for me once the right ammo is found. I'm not going to embarass myself with claims of '1" groups at 100 yards' but several folks have cited good 5 shot groups at 25 and 50 yards. I'd be surprised if you couldn't find at least one load that would hold to 1.25" at 25 yards through a 9mm CZ in an Ransom Rest.

Or we could just make clipse happy and say, 'The CZ P-01 is absolutely the most accurate stock pistol on the planet!' :p

[horge]

Are we talking about inherent mechanical accuracy?

Or are we including practical shootability as well?
I mean, your gun might be dead-on when rested, but other pistols might provide better average accuracy in offhand application.

Just asking.

[Marshall]

Sean, no doubt correct! I know folks who would be pleasantly content with 1 1/2" groups @ 50 yards with a scoped '06.

[Gewehr98]

Because, if the 952 is anything like it's famous Papa, the Model 52, it's one seriously accurate factory-stock pistol. Just wish I could afford one. Oh, well, guess I'll plod along with the Model 52, instead. :D

http://mauser98.com/m52drivetest.jpg

[kidcoltoutlaw]

up a grade to SIG p229 sport. para ordnance TAC 4 is a real tack driver as well,thanks,keith

[clipse]

Or we could just make clipse happy and say, 'The CZ P-01 is absolutely the most accurate stock pistol on the planet!'


Thats all I was looking for. :D

When I started this thread I was thinking about combat ready, realistic for the average shooter, defensive handguns. I guess I should have been alot more clear. I was also not talking about the best group you ever had. I wanted to know what the most accurate stock pistol was in general. Obviously the sig210 would not be considered for the average shooter. ($$$) Anything with the word target in the name doesn't make me think of combat ready either. Again, I sould have been alot more clear. Sorry.


clipse

[Fed168]

The 220ST, G34, and the LDA single stack.

[12 Volt Man]

I vote for the CZ97. Great accuracy and not just from me. Anyone who I have let try mine has done well.

[Mikul]

H&K USP

[HogRider]

SIG 210 - 6

[Big Mike]

My most accurate pistols were in order:

1. Beretta Brigadier 9mm
2. Glock 26
3. S&W 6946
4. Witness .45 Full Size Steel Frame

Least Accurate for me:

1. Glock 21
2. Firestar Plus
3. All .380s I've owned

All the rest fell somewhere in the middle. I would imagine the most accurate stock pistol @ $1000 or less would be the HK P7. Mike

[jetrecbn]

Sig 210
Sig 220
Walther P88
HK P7
HK Elite

[boofus]

What about the USP Tactical? If it's anything like the MK23 it should be hella accurate and it is just under $1000. According to H&K the MK23 averaged 1.44 inches at 25 meters with five shots when clamped into a fixture. They even ended up with 4 tests where all five shots went through the same hole for a .5 inch group.

All I know is my Mark 23 is more accurate than its shooter. If the USP Tactical is anything like its big brother then it might be worth looking into.

:p I haven't seen any brand new P7s for less than $1000 lately. Going price seems to be around $1200-1400. About the same for a new USP Elite 9mm too.

The FN FiveseveN also has a non-tilting barrel and basically shoots a juiced up varmint round. Wonder how it stacks up.

[ss]

S&W PPC9 is the most accurate current production stock pistol made.

It has to be special ordered and available to law enforcement only.

[Hal]

What do you guys think?
Pardini Model K2S - course it falls outside of your question since it's a glorified "BB" gun ;)

[deltaopwong]

Sig P210 and Glock 34

[Sean Smith]

It has to be special ordered

Well, it isn't a production gun then, now is it?

;)

[Tamara]

The objectively correct answer to this question is the SIG P210. See the 50 meter test targets for details.

He specifically discounts hand-fitted 1.5k+ 1911's, so I think that hand-fitted 1.5k+ europellet launchers are out, too. ;)

If, on the other hand, we're confining ourselves to dead-nuts-stock, ordered-from-a-catalog guns, well, my Pro's been pretty accurate, 'though I haven't stuck it in a Ransom Rest yet. I've been happy enough that I haven't felt the need to customize it. (Sorry, but there's no "poker faced" smiley.)

[Sean Smith]

He specifically discounts hand-fitted 1.5k+ 1911's, so I think that hand-fitted 1.5k+ europellet launchers are out, too.

Was there a point to that outburst, aside from being a smarty pants? :neener:

If, on the other hand, we're confining ourselves to dead-nuts-stock, ordered-from-a-catalog guns, well, my Pro's been pretty accurate, 'though I haven't stuck it in a Ransom Rest yet.

Didn't we just rule out megabux 1911s? :scrutiny:

If not, then I see your Pro and raise you a Rock River Arms Bullseye Wadcutter. Hey, it is a standard cataloged model they make. 1.5" @ 50 yards with Federal Gold Medal Match. Really, calling the Pro anything but a handmade custom job is just playing with semantics, maybe even more so than calling a P210 a prodution gun. :evil:

I've been happy enough that I haven't felt the need to customize it.

What's left that isn't already on the Pro? A neck massager? A cappuchino machine? :D

[Tamara]

Was there a point to that outburst, aside from being a smarty pants? :neener:

If we removed posts made solely for smarty pants value, I think you and I would both have much lower post counts. :neener: back.

Anyhow, I took the "factory custom 1911's excluded" bit to include (by spirit of the statement) megabuck factory SIGs, Korths, Korriphilas, et cetera, which are all "factory customs" as well, just not 1911's.

[Sean Smith]

Truth. :D

By the way, I see you've taken up my bad habit of making a post, then editing it after you think of something better to say. How annoying! :p

[Greg Bell]

"If we removed posts made solely for smarty pants value, I think you and I would both have much lower post counts. back."

Ain't that the truth.
:D

[Michael Zeleny]

Anyhow, I took the "factory custom 1911's excluded" bit to include (by spirit of the statement) megabuck factory SIGs, Korths, Korriphilas, et cetera, which are all "factory customs" as well, just not 1911's.According to the SIG Neuhausen engineers, the current production run of SIG P210 involves very little hand fitting. Their tight clearances leading to exceptional accuracy are due to the high tolerances of CNC manufacture and superlative quality of raw materials. This is witnessed by the ready retrofit of conversion barels and slides, along with smaller spare parts, onto the existing P210 pistols regardless of their vintage.

By contrast, Korth and Korriphila are benchmade products that owe nothing to factory manufacture.

If you choose to exclude "megabuck" sidearms from your accuracy sweepstakes, it would be more honest to do so explicitly, by postulating a fixed budget.

[Gewehr98]

And the answer he wanted started with "CZ".

But it's kinda hard to give an objective answer when the question's criteria changes several times throughout the thread. :scrutiny:

Factory production pistol, and my own smart-a$$ answer to the question:

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/content/00/01/32/32/75/userimages/170220_large.jpg

[Tamara]

Their tight clearances leading to exceptional accuracy are due to the high tolerances of CNC manufacture

...which are ever so much tighter than the high tolerances of CNC manufacturing used by Kimber, S&W, and others... :rolleyes:

I'll provide the custom Springer and the Baer if you'll provide the 210 and the Ransom Rest. I'm not making any claims, but I'd be interested in seeing the results.

[Michael Zeleny]

Their tight clearances leading to exceptional accuracy are due to the high tolerances of CNC manufacture...which are ever so much tighter than the high tolerances of CNC manufacturing used by Kimber, S&W, and others... :rolleyes:You may be familiar with the principle that the quality of the outcome depends less on the tightness of the tool than on the skill of its wielder. ;)I'll provide the custom Springer and the Baer if you'll provide the 210 and the Ransom Rest. I'm not making any claims, but I'd be interested in seeing the results.My present circumstances leave little room for pleasure travel, less so for parting with front-line defensive tools. However I would be happy to lend the latter to a friendly visitor at a local range.

[DonNikmare]

:D CZ 97b at least in the .45 category.

Nik

[Tamara]

You may be familiar with the principle that the quality of the outcome depends less on the tightness of the tool than on the skill of its wielder. ;)

Guess the "C's" in their "CNC's" use better zeroes and ones than the "C's" in our'n, huh? ;)

[Michael Zeleny]

You may be familiar with the principle that the quality of the outcome depends less on the tightness of the tool than on the skill of its wielder. ;)Guess the "C's" in their "CNC's" use better zeroes and ones than the "C's" in our'n, huh? ;)Actually, they use more zeroes. To recap the punchline to a joke utterly irreproducible in this venue, it's entirely different, but it's the same thing.
http://philo.at/pipermail/phil-logic/2003-December/002788.html

[PATH]

Walther P5.

[Greg Bell]

H&K P7M8 or P9s. These guns are extremely accurate and involve no hand fitting. As their detractors often point out, they are simply CNC machined and stamped steel. Alas, the P9s is no more. But I did just buy a NIB .45 P9s target.

[denfoote]

Glock 30 hands down!!!

[Sistema1927]

Most every gun that I have owned, and this includes snub nosed J-frames, is capable of better accuracy than I am able to obtain without using a rest.

Since most of my handgun shooting is preparation for self-defense, I have never been concerned unless I can't obtain "minute-of-man" accuracy during rapid fire.

[Black Snowman]

How about this? What's the best accuracy for the $ and exclude nothing? I bet the CZ 97B comes out real close to the top if not there.

Since this is the autoloader forum I won't mention that my Taurus 669 with full power 38 specials is my most accurate handgun, as well as my cheapest. ;)

Rapid fire accuracy goes to my Glock 24P, but I have over $900 invested in the gun and it was a short run of special competition pistols.

Out of the box my CZ 75B and CZ 85 Compact are about tied for my autoloaders with Kamicosmos' CZ 97B being as good or slightly better depending on how I'm shooting that day :)

[jem375]

Christ guys, this post is 5 months old.....

[rauchman]

Let me preface this by saying, I am not an uber shooter. I've never shot any of my pistols from a Ranson rest or anything like that. Having said all that, the most accurate pistol I have shot is the CZ75 SA in .40. I would have bought the 9mm if the dealer had one, but .40 was what they had. What a shooter though. I have other pistols (Sig 226 9mm stamped slide, 225, Glock 19, USP45F, SA Loaded 1911, Beretta 92FS & Neos, Ruger Mark II, and 2 P7 PSP's). The CZ, in my hands wins hands down as the most accurate pistol I have fired.

[Tamara]

Christ guys, this post is 5 months old.....

Greg Bell got a new gun and went around the 'Net playing necromancer. ;)

[Greg Bell]

Tamara can always see right through me. :D :D

[Brass Balls]

Here's the test target that came with my Les Baer UMC 1.5 This is 10 rounds fired from a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. That's a .75" group, measured center-to-center (the only fair way to judge group size -- groups should not be penalized for shooting a large caliber). 1.2 - .45 = .75


http://home.comcast.net/~capilla/Aug01003.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~capilla/UM_RT_SIDE.JPG

[45R]

Sig 226

[kidcoltoutlaw]

is a great pistol but i would not call it stock maybe super stock or custom or semi custom.for me the SIG p229 is super accurate and the p229 sport is even more accurate thanks,keith

[Ala Dan]

right from the box?

I've said it before, and I will say it again:

the .45 caliber SIG-SAUER P220A


Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Berg01]

In capable hands a stock Colt Gov't model in .38 Super would get my vote.

[schromf]

Just to be contrary, I will add the Thompson Contender (the Remington pistol and the MOA MAximum also qualify) Yeah I know they are more like a snub nosed rifle, but as far as out an out accuracy for a pistol platform these are hard to beat. I know filters have been applied to this thread as it goes along, but before the 22 cal was filtered the Anchutz 22 cal pistol would have made the list also.

If I was looking to consistantly get 1" groups at 50 yards, from a pistol the above would be the few entries on a very short list. All the other listings at best will do double that, with the right ammo, and the stars and moon in alignment. I also wouldn't have a clue what is the correct tack driving cartridge for the above SS pistols, I will throw out a 6MM PPC would be a good start and work more accurate from there.

Oh, I know this isn't what you were thinking of, but most accurate, non 22, and stock were left after filters and these fit. I certainly wouldn't do a dollar a shot, run against a scoped one of these pistols, with any revolver or auto platform. Seems a quick way to loose a fair amount of money in a hurry.

[Brass Balls]

By: kidcoltoutlaw:
Les Baer is a great pistol but i would not call it stock maybe super stock or custom or semi custom.

You can call it what you want, but the pistol I posted the target from and picture of is totally stock from the factory. 1.5" MOA from a rifle is pretty good, but from a semi-auto pistol it's very impressive no matter what you call it.


http://home.comcast.net/~capilla/UM_REAR_TOP_OF_SLIDE.JPG

[kidcoltoutlaw]

my mcbros 50 bmg LBR stock. i don't think the guys you out shoot with it would call it stock.Les Baer maybe stock but the price is custom. you would have trouble trying to do something to it to make it more accurate because it is so accurate already.

[Andrew Wyatt]

have you ever tried to accurize a CZ?

[M2 Carbine]

Well, you can call it what you want but for my 66 year old eyes I'll settle for this.
At 50 yards the 11x8 inch paper targets just looks like bird poop on the plywood.::D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/kimber_tu_50_yards_3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/50_yard_witness.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Kimber_50_yds.jpg

Makarov and Barnaul ammo 50 yards
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/48_yds_Bul_Arsenal_Mak.jpg