[twoblink]

I'm just wondering what applications the .223 would be superior over the 308 (if any at all)

If not (or not convincing enough) then I am not going to add another round; keep the logistics easy..

[BigG]

Hi Twoblink,

I think not. The reason I got in to 223 in the first place was availability of cheap surplus ammo. Before that I was into 30/06 for the same reason. I believe the 308 came a little after the 223 as I don't recall a lot of surplus rifles contemporary with the Colt AR15 like there is nowadays. I stuck with the Colt because it was so ergonomic. Had a Springfield M1A which was OK but the Garand type doesn't do it for me for some reason.

With a 308, you have pretty much all you need.

[Art Eatman]

As a hunting rifle, the .223 is a lot better for a varmint gun. Less noise, recoil, weight...And, really, same advantage for extensive amounts of paper-punching or plinking.

For home defense, six of one, half-dozen of the other.

Art

[Kaylee]

Need?

Not really. Heck, we prolly don't NEED even the .308. Besides, if it ever gets to the point that any of us needs a rifle, it's not like we're going to have rifle caddies following us around.

"hrmm... I make that about 195 yards, no armor really... I think I'll take the .223 today Jeeves... hand me the Galil this time, would you?"

:D

So no "need" excuse there, sorry. :)

Doesn't mean you shouldn't get one if you really want it though.

-K

[Smoke]

well, maybe....

.223 is a little cheaper to shoot. It might be a little better suited for small game. It might be a little better to plink with. It might be nice to have a AR-15.

But do you need one? Only you can answer that. If the question was reversed it would be easier to answer. But whether you need a smaller caliber than the one you now own is really up to you.

[SteyrAUG]

Despite what anyone tells you the Army went form the .308 (7.62 Nato) to the .223 (5.56 Nato) for economic reasons. It was simply cheaper to produce and you could train soldiers faster with the lighter round.

The "practical" advantage of the .223 over the .308 is you can carry more rounds of .223 than .308. The .223 is a excellent intermediate round. In general it can be used in the vast majority of combat situations.

That said it does not have the long range terminal ballistics associated with the .308.

[Handy]

The surplus .308 and .223 seem to be about the same in price, which is actually a screw, if you consider what you're getting. But $140 or so gets 1000 of each, and you can do more with .308.

But, of course, I have one of each. .223 is a good girlfriend rifle. But my wife does quite well with the .308 HK.

[Poodleshooter]

Since you already have a .308, mention of heavier ammo is moot. Yes,the .308 will do everything that the .223 can. Loads with 110 and 125gr bullets are available for varmint hunting. It isn't as good as a .223, but it works. The .223 is superior in terms of lower ammo cost, slightly flatter trajectory with certain loads, and lighter cartridge weight. The .308 wins in overall power and penetration,big game hunting & better resistance to wind drift over long range.

[David Roberson]

Heresy!

Of course you need both. They're different calibers, aren't they?

Someone here has forgotten the age-old motto "Buy 'em all."

[cratz2]

But, of course, I have one of each. .223 is a good girlfriend rifle. But my wife does quite well with the .308 HK.

I'm not so sure I'd want to be you when your girlfriend with the 223 and your wife with the 308 meet. :D

[cratz2]

If you own a 308, I don't see a real need to buy a 223. Cheap ammo can be had with either one, plus the difference in ammo better be considerable to offset the cost of an at least $600 or so rifle/scope combo.

For capabilities, the 223 obviously kicks a lot less. For noise, I don't think there's a huge difference. 168 Gr match loads don't seem tremendously loud.

If I were starting out, and had the budget to skip surplus ammo, I'd split the difference and go with a 243, 260 or 7mm-08. Flatter trajectories and less recoil and the latter two are still capable of killing anything that needs killing around my parts. ;)

[SodaPop]

IMHO Its best to have two rifles in atleast two of these calibers:

1)7.62x39
2).223
3).308
4)22LR

You should keep a 9mm around too.

[Quintin Likely]

Need? I dunno, but they're a helluva lot of fun, be it in an AR or a bolt gun or whatever.

[BusMaster007]

YES. :D

[BamBam]

Yes,
you need a .223 rifle.

Now go and tell Mrs. Twoblink that an "expert" told you that you need it.

BamBam

PS,
Please email me saying that I need a .50 Barrett. Send it ATTENTION: Mrs. BamBam

[BIGR]

The .223 would be cheap to shoot and would be great on those varmits that you might encounter. Ah go ahead and get you one. Everyone needs a varmit caliber.

[Freedom in theSkies]

I'm not so sure I'd want to be you when your girlfriend with the 223 and your wife with the 308 meet.

At least the violent crime squad would be able to see how many times the ladies each got you... -"gee, theres another small hole... and wow! Look at the big ones...Did they ever do a number on this guy!"
Maybe the State prosecutor would ask for an additional 2 year sentence for each shooter for each additional hole in "their caliber".

:cool:

[Handy]

I'm not so sure I'd want to be you when your girlfriend with the 223 and your wife with the 308 meet.

Since we didn't grow up in Sudan, we did have a chance to date a bit before the marriage.;)


A single man with a spare rifle has a loner for his girlfriend.

A married man pretty much has his rifles, or it's her rifle. You don't lend anything except shirts to your own wife.

[Blain]

I have a nice .308 battle rifle. (m14) I figure that if the time comes where we are attacked (either by our own military or foriegn) I can easily aquire an M16 or other .223 rifle if I need it from the corpses of my fallen enemies. Both .223 rifles and ammo would be plentiful in such a situation!

[goalie35]

Blain's scenario is what convinced me I needed a poodleshooter. Actually, it was an Oleg picture that said something along the lines of "you never know when you'll need to borrow in a hurry." So I thought, might be handy to know the M16/AR15 drill ahead of time. My FAL is fine until then.

[CaesarI]

Hmm... I don't know if NEED is the right word here.

I can think of only one good reason not mentioned:
http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-poodles.html
:D

-Morgan
:neener:

[Kahr carrier]

Buy one ,you need both.:)

[twoblink]

Someone here has forgotten the age-old motto "Buy 'em all."

Obviously, that is what Tamara is for.. ;-)

I think all this talk has convienced me that I need another M1A!!

I think the .223 would be a great bolt action round, for the small game.. But I'm not convienced that is that big of a deal if I go 308 on say.. a coyote..

I currently have a 308 bolt action as well; and so I think the 308 is pretty good.. It's probably one of the most versatile rounds every created..

I don't know about the "cost" argument.. surplus 308 is dirt cheap, and not really a serious cost factor vs the 223. Also, I shoot less with the 308 (a lot more aimed shots, very little spray) and so the final cost of ammo might be LOWER...

A quick check on ammoman.com tells me the 308 surplus is just as cheap to shoot...

[Schmit]

Yes, you need a .223, you are part of "a well regulated militia" are you not?

Now, well regulated has been taken to mean "well trained" and a Militaman is suppose to be competant with the small arms used by the standing armed forces.

SOOOOOOOO, you need a .223, perferably in an AR configuation.

:cool:

[El Rojo]

The only reason you need a .223 is to get an AR, and as you well know as a former resident of the PRK, you can't buy one. So unless you move out of state upon your return to America, stick with your .308 M1A. Now I don't remember you having a bolt action .308 yet. That is really what you need next. Every single (as in not married) young man under the age of 25 needs a M1A and a precision bolt-gun combo. I prefer the Remington 700 VS/P models myself. Then you will have two guns with the same ammo. 110 gr v-max and 125 gr Speer TNT will be perfectly fine for varminting.

If we ever get back the AR series or if you move out of state, then you will need to get at least an AR. Maybe a bolt gun in .223 too. However, with the type of ARs out now, why get a bolt gun when you can build a super accurate AR instead and then have a standard model AR A2 and then a shorty AR A3 with proper red-dot or ACOG optics?

Damn I hate the PRK! Also be forwarned. Getting married and buying a house will severely limit your gun purchases unless you make lots of money. Marriage is good, I wouldn't trade it. However, being broke sucks! So build you gun collection and buy your reloading components now. I am currently out of .40 bullets and need to buy some more but can't!!! :fire: I have plenty of primers, powder, and brass, no bullets.

[David Roberson]

"Every single (as in not married) young man under the age of 25 needs a M1A and a precision bolt-gun combo. "

You misspelled "Every American beween the ages of 18 and 90...."

Note also that a trusty Garand is fully acceptable as a substitute for the M1A.

Hope this helps.

[bad_dad_brad]

If I have a .223 rifle, do I need a .308?

Need? No. Want? Yes. Can you say DSA FN FAL? How about an AR-10?

Actually I think these are the most versatile rifle calibers:

.22LR
.223
.30/06

Not to say the plethora of other calibers on the market, including the .308, do not fit, but I think with those three you can just about do anything. And the ammo is reasonalble as well.

[El Rojo]

You see Dave, if everyone young man under the age of 25 had that combo, there wouldn't be any old men without the same combo after a few years. And the Garand is not an acceptable substitute. It has now been added as part of the M1A, Bolt Gun, M1 Garand tri-combo. After all, they all take the same bullets. With that being said, a Schmidt Ruben K-31 should also be required as well.

The M1A, Bolt Gun in .308, M1 Garand, and K-31 combo. Either you have a set or you are a terrorist loving, communist sympathizer.

note: Don't forget you need a reloading set up for all of this too or you are just half American.

[David Roberson]

The Garand is TOO an acceptable substitute for the M1A. And the K31 is required only if you're right-handed; it's not required for us southpaws.

But you're right about handloading: No handloading equipment = Al Qaeda sympathizer.

[El Rojo]

No, sorry. You can't subsitute the M1 Garand for the M1A. You must have both. Again sorry, that is just the way it is. That is unless you are a southpaw, then you are just liberal and none of these rules apply to you anyway. :neener:

[twoblink]

I have a Mauser 98 bolt action in .308 named (surprise!!) Oleg! :D

It's my one two;

M1A (308) named Betty
Mauser 98 (308) named Oleg..

I do have two AR15 lowers that I bought but have since shipped out of the PRK for obvious reasons..

I am just wondering if logistically, it's worth it to add a .223..

Yes.. Every PERSON needs an M1A/bolt action in 308 combo..

Beat you to it!

[thumbtack]

Yes, you must have one. That is just the way it is.
==========================================
Ammo is cheap.

You can shoot more rounds with less pain to your shoulder.

AR's are just so much fun to shoot.

[Onslaught]

A married man pretty much has his rifles, or it's her rifle. You don't lend anything except shirts to your own wife.
OK, but loaning stuff out to someone ELSE's wife could very well leave you dodging 3 calibers instead of just 2, were you ever "caught" ;)

[seeker_two]

need?
?Need?
?!?!NEED?!?!

Didn't runt WARN you about usin' them four-letter words? :banghead:

If NEED came into it, this would be a pretty boring board....:scrutiny:

[Andrew Wyatt]

I think you should acquire a .223, simply because it does make a good cartridge for those short in stature.


IMHO, ar-15's defeat the purpose somewhat in that (especially in A2 configuration), they're heavy and have an awfully long Length of pull.


If you are going to get a .223, chances are it probably won't need to be used on varmints that much(if it ends up being your girlfriend's rifle) or man sized targets out much past 200 yards.

given those circumstances, i'd reccommend getting a mini-14, since it has a stock that can be easily shortened, has a similar manual of arms to your m-1a, and is light, small, and handy.

Yes, I know I'm a horrible individual for advocating a .223 OTHER than an ar-15.


as for the guns everyone must have:
That is unless you are a southpaw, then you are just liberal and none of these rules apply to you anyway.
I must beg to differ with that. every left handed shooter must have an enfield, an m-1a, and either a mini or a .22 bolt gun.

[twoblink]

Every left hander should also have a bottom eject shotgun too (shotshell welts on the right arm sucks)

I have a bolt action, and it took a few times for me to remember to move the head when I rack, as to avoid the bloody lip I give myself.

M1A is a must-have for left handers.

Much more so then Garands..

With the Garand, you get a "Garand Thumb" because you can't press the blade of your hand against the bolt lever when you drop in the clip..

[Covey Rise]

Haven't all you Osama Groupies read "Marine Sniper" the story about Carlos Hathcock. He took out a whole NVA Company with his Winchester Model 70 in 30-06, of course his spotter helped a touch with covering fire with his M-14. All this talk about AR's, FAL's, and other assualt rifles is senseless, just get you a good bolt action 06 with a mega scope, and your good out to 1200 yards. If they get too close just pull out the .45!!

Of course I'm one to talk, heheh, I got a tricked SKS, but only cause it was $79.00 for the gun and I had to tinker with it. I even glass bedded it, haha, it really helped.

Most versatile round by far 30-06, in my closet you can find the following 06 rounds.

55 gr. Rem Accelerator 4000 fps :D :D :D (varmint/coyote)
150 gr. Win Soft Points (Whitetail Deer)
165 gr. Fed Pro Hunters (Muley Deer)

I can alway got buy a box of 180 gr if I go Elk hunting.

Of course if any of you boys got an extra AR, msg me and I will babysit the cute little thing.

[benzh]

One thing I considered was the use of a .223 for bolt-action training. I have an accurate .308 bolt gun. But, I am taking a 500 round "precision rifle" class and am currently practicing shooting from field positions (squatting, sitting, rest against a tree, standing, etc.). So, I am setting up a .223 boltgun. It is simply more pleasant to shoot while learning and training.

Interesting story....A friend of mine was laughed at when he showed up at a "precision rifle" with his accurate AR15 in whimpy .223. During day 1 most shooters were regularly shooting < 1 MOA groups. However, on day 3 the riflemen shooting .308 and .300 win mags where pretty tired of getting pounded in the prone position and there groups deteriated significantly to 2-4 MOA. Their shoulders hurt alot! Food for thought.

Regards,
Howard Benz
Memphis