The .45ACP vs the FiveSeven for home defense ?


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Alan Fud
April 23, 2004, 03:38 AM
Assuming the AWB is allowed to expire without being renewed (or something else taking it's place), would the FN FiveSeven (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/hg_fiveseven.htm) make a good defensive handgun when compared to a .45ACP?
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/guns_1100px/fn_hg_fiveseven.jpg
Specifically speaking, how would twenty-one 5.7 X 28mm 31grns rounds traveling at 2,133 fps (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm) compare to eight or nine .45ACP 230grns rounds traveling at 890 fps (http://www.speer-bullets.com/html/ballistics/detail.asp?cart=23966&use=%201%204%205&classtitle=Gold%20Dot®) in terms of stopping power?

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Tamara
April 23, 2004, 06:46 AM
Why not get a Grendel P-30 and have thirty-one rounds of .22 Magnum?


I'll stick with my current battery.

1911Tuner
April 23, 2004, 07:45 AM
In the house...Short barreled shotgun stoked with #4 buckshot.
Mine is a double with exposed hammers...Pumps are good. Best course of action is to have a plan...such as all family members stay put instead of
wandering around investigating. That way, you know where everyone is.
A single word or phrase acts as a signal for all hands to hit the deck and
stay there until further notice. Practice it! Children sometimes forget.
Emphasize the point that they STAY PUT.

Get a dog. Excellent early warning system and BG location machine.
The presence of the dog will probably be enough of a deterrent to
send all but the most determined looking for an easier mark.

Cell phones are also good. If you have time, call 911. It will be in your favor if it's on record that you tried to open other avenues before pulling the trigger as your last resort.

Luck!

Tuner

Double Naught Spy
April 23, 2004, 09:02 AM
The only real benefit of the fiveseven is the potential for penetrating body armor. Otherwise, the hole is going to be very small and there won't be a lot of secondary tissue damage from tumbling, or so the initial results indicate.

You can have a fiveseven now, I believe. You just can't get the hi capacity magazines or the AP ammo.

Erich
April 23, 2004, 09:03 AM
I thought the problem with the FiveSeven was that it's supposedly AP, something the expiration of the AWB would have no effect on.

Heck, why not get a short-barrelled AR - better than either a .45 or this goofy handgun round? There's little question that 55 grains travelling at 2900 fps are pretty effective on a soft target at short range, and there's plenty of info out there to show that 5.56 is less likely to dangerously overpenetrate interior walls.

Dropping the speed down to 2100 fps and the grainage down to 31? Well, amigo, I wouldn't want to be running the experiment - I'll stick with the .45 (or the AR, or the 12-ga) until someone else proves this other thing is worth a look.

Personally, I'm skeptical. (But interesting thread topic! :) )

PCRCCW
April 23, 2004, 09:13 AM
Id take a Tokarev over the FiveSeven...........the 45 is my choice for home defense..........and a good one.

Shoot well.

longeyes
April 23, 2004, 11:04 AM
You don't need armor-piercing. Aim at the head.

I'll stick with a shotgun and a .45. My FiveSeven is a Beretta Neos.

cratz2
April 23, 2004, 11:20 AM
Well, if you want an almost guaranteed kill (rather than a stop) then a head shot from the FiveSeven would probably be more consistant.

If you are planning on something more like two or three shots center of mass with a handgun, I can think of few guns I'd rather have than a full sized 1911 with expanding HPs.

Of course, a shotgun is even better.

I did get a chance to look over a FiveSeven when I picked up my PCR last week. He got two in and one sold about twenty seconds later. Anyone can buy one that can legally buy a handgun. Just can't get the AP ammo... or at least you can't get it very easily. The gun kind of surprised me at how toy-like it felt. A Glock feels like a Crown Vic in comparison. Trigger is very unusual... Not heavy, and very short, but it doesn't feel like there's one piece of machined steel in the trigger group.

At $1,100, it's not for me. As Erich said, just get a shorty AR.

Alan Fud
April 23, 2004, 11:41 AM
Posted by longeyes: ... You don't need armor-piercing ... Wasn't really interested in the armor-piercing aspect of it. Just curious how 31grns traveling at 2,133 fps would compare to 230grns traveling at 890 fps.

NOTE: I always thought that bigger was better until the .357SIG came along and people began to claim that it was a superior stopper than the .45ACP even though it was smaller & lighter. I have no actual experience in this area which is why I asked the question.

If a 125grn .357SIG round is a better stopper than a 230grn .45ACP because of it's higher velocity, would the same logic apply to an even smaller round traveling even faster? I don't know.

otomik
April 23, 2004, 11:41 AM
if you really find a FiveSeven all that desireable over .45acp in a home defense role i think sounder defensive advice would be to move to a better neighborhood or look into the witness protection program.

and i'm pretty sure that even after the AWB expires you won't be finding AP ammo for your FiveSeven, so it's fractionally better than a .22magnum. Even if you use the FiveSeven to good effect in a encounter i have a feeling it's "military only" mystique will bite you in the ass during your day in court.

mondocomputerman
April 23, 2004, 12:56 PM
That energy calculates to:

FN: 313 FT Lbs (313 x 21 rounds) is 6573 for the gun
45: 414 FT Lbs (404 x 9 rounds) is 3726 for the gun

I would stick with the .45 It's a tried and proven round.

Erich
April 23, 2004, 12:58 PM
I was the one who brought up the AP aspect - I had been laboring under the (apparently mistaken) impression that all of the ammo for this cartridge had been banned as AP.

I stand corrected. Sorry. :o

Well, so you're looking at, basically, the ballistics of a 16" AR at 200+ yards, except with a much lighter bullet. And that's from the muzzle.

The more I think about it, the more I think I'd rather have a .45 (in response to Alan's original Q).

Marshall
April 23, 2004, 05:42 PM
For home defense, give me a cartridge that makes a big, fat hole and makes hamburger of internal organs over a skinny fast one anytime.

:D

rich2u
April 23, 2004, 07:00 PM
Heck why bother just use magsafe ammo. My 10mm with that stuff is the same power as a 44mag. 950flbs ouch!
The 96grain is moving at 180ofps at 960flbs
the 46 grain is moving at 2499fps at 588flbs

RepublicanMan
April 23, 2004, 07:57 PM
THe 5-7 is available currently, a friend of mine picked one up about a month or so ago.

Zundfolge
April 23, 2004, 08:21 PM
Id take a Tokarev over the FiveSeven

ditto that

Gordon
April 23, 2004, 08:52 PM
"how would twenty-one 5.7 X 28mm 31grns rounds traveling at 2,133 fps compare to eight or nine .45ACP 230grns rounds traveling at 890 " wheres all that ammo going? to twenty one invaders or 'two to the torso and one to the brain' in a couple guys? A question like this begs training.;)

Mr.Burke
May 13, 2009, 12:39 PM
I just want to say I have a Five-seveN and I love it. If you are looking for stopping power this isn't really a gun for you. If you are looking to put 5 shots down range in a little over a second, accurately, than this gun is awesome.

The 5.7x28mm blue tip sporting round compared to a 9mm Federal Hydro-shock has about the same expansion with a little more disruption plus deeper penetration. So, if you aren't happy with your Beretta 9mm with hydro-shocks and 15 rounds... maybe want 5 more rounds... go for it. You can also buy the 30 rounds extended mag, at least here in Florida I can.

Oh, and for the AP thing... The original sporting round, distinguished by the red tip, was believed to be armor piercing to a point. 28 layers of Kevlar is what one study had said. FN Denied it but removed the ammo from the market. You can still buy them but they are really hard to find seeing as they are not manufactured any longer. I personally got the gun because I have wanted it since the Splinter Cell game series came out. Silly reason... but when you have $1271.70 to spend and you want a fancy gun with a nasty reputation, well this is the gun for you.

Hungry Seagull
May 13, 2009, 01:08 PM
The 57 has a bad reputation in my area. It is a beautiful weapon that appears very capable of penetrating armor... specifically LEO armor.

Therefore given the choice at the time between the 57 and the .45 I chose the .45 because I dont want the Courts to think Im just another gang banging cop killer by simple association with the 57 which is growing in popularity on the street.

It's a shame that I have to think these things when considering a weapon. I was considering the 57 along with several others. But ultimately the old tried and true proven .45 ACP does the job.

Now dogs, early warning and 12, 20 gauge children works out very well indeed. In fact, using the 1760 fps magnums in my Rem 870 armored badguys dont matter at HD ranges. There will be so much energy delivered onto them that behind the vest they will suffer a injury where there is a million bleeding holes in lungs that no surgeon can ever fix behind a shattered centermass bone.

Show me a vest that can stop that slug and keep bad guy functional. They cannot make em light enough to carry while walking, much less trying to break into home. If BG takes one I shoot and kills me.. well... it's my time. heh.

CWL
May 13, 2009, 01:16 PM
What has been discovered about the 5.7 round is that it does too good a job of penetrating. Just like an icepick, it makes nice small holes and then keeps on going. It doesn't yaw or break-up like .223 NATO to cause internal destruction as claimed (note, we're talking about the civilian version, not the AP round). I recall one of the earliest reports of the 5-7 deployment by police SWAT in a shootout, the Team Leader emptied his pistol at barricaded BG, managing to miss every shot -although one bullet overpenetrated the walls and hit & injured a SWAT officer on the other side...

.45 ACP on the other hand just relies on plain old size & mass to do it's damage. It has worked for 100 years now against just about any sort of aggressor on this planet.

I would choose .45ACP, but that's just my $0.02.

Dumptruck
May 13, 2009, 01:29 PM
How about that Tom Brady winning the Super Bowl MVP?

Why was this resurrected from the grave five years later? haha

Alan Fud
May 13, 2009, 02:32 PM
Newbie wanted to share his insight with us.

harmon rabb
May 13, 2009, 02:33 PM
If you want to shoot through light body armor, why not a tokarev? It doesn't have a rep as a 'cop killer.'

BlindJustice
May 13, 2009, 03:53 PM
Is this a troll or a joke?

SOme paper experts champion the 7.62x25
blissfully ignoring the fact that the M1 .30 Carbine
has very similar ballistics, and it proved to be the
least effective small arms option for our soldiers in
WWII.

Randall

Dan Crocker
May 13, 2009, 04:00 PM
I really like it when we all write our
sentences short and hit the <enter>
key to fit it in the little 'quick reply'
box.
Seriously, just type, and it will fill up the whole page!

wditto
May 13, 2009, 04:36 PM
Alan, if you think about it a moment, it makes perfect sense ; if you need to defend your family against an attack, would you rather have a little stick or a big stick ?
'nuf said

Ruggles
May 13, 2009, 04:43 PM
The 5.7 is a capable handgun for HD with either the SS192, SS195 or SS197 all of which you can buy with ease in most places. Heck it is even in stock whereas most handgun ammo is not. Prices are equal to or better than most handgun ammo these days as well.

The FiveseveN has alot going for it as a HD handgun. Reliable to a fault, easy as pie to shoot, very fast follow up shots and ballistic that will do the job. The .45 also has a ton of benefits going for it as well.

I use a 1911 for HD handgun and a PS90 with SS197s as my HD long gun. If I had my pick I would grab the PS90 without a doubt.

Ignore the talking heads calling the FiveseveN a .22 handgun, they do not know what they are talking about.

Zerodefect
May 13, 2009, 05:57 PM
Ignore the ".22" guys. The 5.7 works fine. When has FN ever let us down. One of the most reliable guns out there due to how thin the round is.

It's not really fair to compare a .45 to a 5.7. Two complety different guns.

The 5.7 has its niche: Less overpenetration, round is desighned for indoor use and less chances of hitting a friendly in another room. Sure it is good at penetrating heavy clothing and even light armor, but that deosn't last for long. A couple walls or a sofa stop it dead. Very accurate, good range.

Its best to use the hollowpoints for defense and the blue tips for sporting. I believe its SS195 that is the defensive hollowpoint. Its been a while since I bought ammo for my P90.


I'd skip the 5.7 pistol because its a good choice for some instances but not as well rounded as a Glock 23 or 21sf.

Besides a PS90 with an Aimpoint in a Tros. low mount is a far better home defense gun.....er, rifle. I also use my P90 for home defense.

Ruggles
May 13, 2009, 07:32 PM
Yes the SS195 is the HP and the SS197 is the "Sporting" round. I have a C-More rail sigh ton my PS90. I had a mini ACOG on a TROS but the C-More seems to work better for me.

I agree on all of your other points.

usp9
May 13, 2009, 07:42 PM
I'd be happy with either but probably want the .45 because it's not as LOUD. :what:

Ruggles
May 13, 2009, 07:48 PM
True the little 5.7 does make itself heard.

2RCO
May 13, 2009, 09:10 PM
Isn't it SS192 that's allegedly AP and no longer imported/made for civilians.

Ruggles
May 13, 2009, 09:49 PM
"Isn't it SS192 that's allegedly AP and no longer imported/made for civilians."

Yes, the LE only round now is the SS190.

SS192 is still out there.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-57-fn-ss192-hollow-point-ammo/cName/pistol-ammo-fn-57

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/2000rds-57-fn-ss192-hollow-point-ammo/cName/pistol-ammo-fn-57


I really do not see the need for it myself so I have not purchased any. I have a little over 4000 rds of mixed SS195 and SS197 stuffed away.

Madcap_Magician
May 13, 2009, 09:54 PM
I can see no benefit to the Five-seveN. It shoots a round that's about at the .22 magnum level. Its most effective loads will probably overpenetrate radically and leave small holes in your target, who is unlikely to be wearing body armor. It's ridiculously expensive, there is no cheap practice ammo for it, and it's pretty much the size of the service 1911 anyway.

Greybeard7
May 13, 2009, 10:06 PM
Google .45 ACP and see why it was developed and what it was designed for.

They're all tools. Decide which one is best for your anticipated use.

I like the .45 ACP, but that's just me. Ultimately, you have to decide. Personally, I think that training and accuracy will be the most important criteria.

GB7

B yond
May 14, 2009, 01:00 AM
I say .45 as the 5.7 will poke a .22-size hole in your target and the wall behind him and whoever is on the other side of that wall where the 45 is slower-moving and heavier so more energy will be dumped into your target, with a bigger hole and less danger of over penetration to boot.

cyclopsshooter
May 14, 2009, 01:04 AM
are not all guns AP?

usp9
May 14, 2009, 07:01 AM
Would someone be kind enough to post a link that demonstrates how the 5.7 over penetrates, and a link to cheap .45 practice ammo. :scrutiny:

Mr.Burke
May 14, 2009, 11:22 AM
Compared to a 9mm Hydro shock... the blue tip 5.7x28mm (SS197SR) opens about the same amount and fragments. Get your facts straight before making a fool of yourself.. I have been studying this gun for a long time. The Lead Free round SS195LF is still available and DOES YAW inside of the target. Again.. learn before you speak.

Also.. for all you people who are afraid of this gun because of its rep...
The Five-seveN has never been used by a criminal to either confront a police officer or kill one. The Brady Campaign labeling the Five-SeveN as "cop-killer" is both irresponsible and unfounded.

Like I said before. the Five-seveN can be compared to a high powered 9mm slug with smaller entry but more devastating effect. If you want to put a hole you can stick your arm in get a .45 Talon round. If you want a gun you can have lots of fun with and know at 55 yards that your bullet is going to hit it's target... then get a five-seven.

ArmedBear
May 14, 2009, 11:29 AM
The 5.7x28 and the .45 ACP work differently.

The difference is a lot like hunting with a .30-06 vs. a .45-70. Either one will bring down big game.

One does it with a small, high-velocity bullet. The other does it with a large, low-velocity bullet.

For rifle hunting, a flat trajectory matters. For pistol self-defense, it doesn't.

I'd opt for the .45ACP for self-defense because I WANT the bullet to drop faster and penetrate fewer walls. I live in town.

However, small, fast bullets do work. It's well-proven by a century of hunting.

I am definitely someone who does not buy the "9mm is just as good as .45" line. Elk hunters will tell you that there's a marked difference between .30 caliber 150 and 180 grain bullets, even if the 180 is going slower. There's no way that a 230 grain .45 isn't a better stopper than anything you can load in a 9mm, assuming each has a similar bullet design. Just NO WAY. Too many years of people actually bringing home meat with different bullets back this up.

However, the 5.7 is a different animal from the 9mm or .45, and just like the .30-06 and the .45-70 do the same thing using different means, the 5.7 is an effective round despite its smaller size.

BBstacker
May 14, 2009, 11:34 AM
I would go with the .45ACP. But if you want a small fast bullet get a Tokarev or a CZ52 and reload with .224 55 gr. bullets @ over 2000 fps. Yes I know thay shoot 7.62x25. The .224 bullets uses a sabeth.

Mr.Burke
May 14, 2009, 11:35 AM
I like this guy, he speaks with knowledge. I am not trying to say a Five-seveN is better then the .45 ACP. I am just trying to tell the half of you where you are wrong in what you say about the gun. I own one and have tested it EXTENSIVELY. I love it and I would take it over a 9mm any day. The .45 ACP is by far a better people round. Even if the target has a vest on... you are breaking ribs or collar bones. I just wanted to correct the misconceptions written all over the internet by anti-gun thumb suckers.

oh and.... 5.7x28mm = .224

Good game.

Mr.Burke
May 14, 2009, 12:32 PM
"SS192 is still out there.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...tol-ammo-fn-57

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...tol-ammo-fn-57 "


I've been looking all over for these. Thank you.

Zerodefect
May 14, 2009, 05:55 PM
The 5.7 deos not have overpenatration problems. In fact it lacks penetration. Some companies are loading hotter 5.7 rounds now to fix that.

Usually it has 10-13" penatration in gelatin vs. 12-14 for .45acp. Luckilly it works well on human targets because it zips right through our ribcage/sternum plenty well to reach vital orgins. This round cuts through a hard layer like a L2 vest or our sternum well but slows extremely quick in anything gooey like gelatin, or our vital guts. I find it very hard to believe, from my testing, that this round could hit center mass on someone and still have enough energy to accidentally kill anyone else.

Its a very small, light round. It loses energy very quickly. 9mm will go farther through a house like building than 5.7

Its not a replacement to .40 or .45. A fair fight would be 9mm vs 5.7.

.22 magnum:scrutiny:, yeah, uh huh, ok. You just keep on believing that. 5.56 nato also is .223. In fact 5.56 bullets can be loaded into the 5.7 case. Unfortunatly that defeats the whole point to the 5.7. and its rounds need to be light.

5.7x28mm was desighned for the p90 as a superior PDW weapon system than the HK Mp5 9mm. FN succeeded in that.

Ruggles
May 14, 2009, 06:26 PM
""SS192 is still out there.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...tol-ammo-fn-57

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...tol-ammo-fn-57 "


I've been looking all over for these. Thank you."

Your welcome, Ammotogo are good folks, been doing business with them for a long time.

Ruggles
May 14, 2009, 06:42 PM
"I say .45 as the 5.7 will poke a .22-size hole in your target and the wall behind him and whoever is on the other side of that wall where the 45 is slower-moving and heavier so more energy will be dumped into your target, with a bigger hole and less danger of over penetration to boot."

:rolleyes:

Ah the internet myths continue.


"I can see no benefit to the Five-seveN. It shoots a round that's about at the .22 magnum level. Its most effective loads will probably overpenetrate radically and leave small holes in your target, who is unlikely to be wearing body armor. It's ridiculously expensive, there is no cheap practice ammo for it, and it's pretty much the size of the service 1911 anyway."

.22 magnum level hmmmmmm......well maybe except that's only when you compare the short barrel performance of the FiveseveN to a full length .22 Magnum rifle barrel performance.

It will not over penetrate, it will enter the body and rumble and tumble it's way around the inside of the body.

Shall I give a list of the links where you can find all the SS195 and SS197 ammo you want in stock today for $20 per 50 rounds? You right about it not being cheap practice ammo, it's top of the line service ammo, you know like the kind you would carry in the gun. If you can find handgun ammo in stock good luck finding top of the line service ammo for that price point. The FiveseveN itself is in the $850 range, same as HKs and Sigs. I really do not see that as being "ridiculously expensive". It there is a knock on it is that clips :D are hard to find for it.

I sold my Fiveseven because I prefer the 1911 platform but to pass untruths about it and to spread internet myths is pointless. It is a fine handgun.

tazdevil56
May 14, 2009, 08:10 PM
I shoot flying pancake rounds that flatten out to an inch and a quarter! Full stop ammo is the way to go!

berettashotgun
May 16, 2009, 06:51 PM
I have never shot any firearm chambered in the 5.7, I have complete ignorance of this round.
I have shot a deer with a 223 and a 45, the 45 worked pretty well at 25 yards. So did the 223 at 90 yards- but - were not talking about a 223.

Someone on this forum once posted "getting shot in the head across the street with a .22 would surely ruin your day". I concur:evil:

Two 22 rounds connecting do more than damage than 10 .45 rounds missing. Even one lowly .22 round does pretty much bad.

I only carry what I have practiced with since I was a kid - a 1911 style pistol in .45. It is what is around the house for those pesky social situations that need to be resolved (never happened yet - whew) but I ONLY would use the pistol to fight my way back to the shotgun.
Then I would trump any pistol and most rifle rounds with the same weapon of choice the Brinks wagon bank guards used, because it works very good at this task. Nothing else is a better tool for these types of situations than a shotgun IMHO.
In 12ga of course:neener:

VTChuck
May 20, 2009, 01:19 AM
Hard to compare these two. The .45 literally has a bullet twice the size of the 5.7x28.

GregGry
May 20, 2009, 05:28 AM
I say .45 as the 5.7 will poke a .22-size hole in your target and the wall behind him and whoever is on the other side of that wall where the 45 is slower-moving and heavier so more energy will be dumped into your target, with a bigger hole and less danger of over penetration to boot.

The reality is the rounds that tumble or fragment are mostly under 10 inches in ballistics gel (vs 12 to 14 inches for most .45acp hollow points). The rounds that are designed to reach maximum penetration act just like a 22mag bullet and do not tumble at all, and those are only in the mid 11 inches of penetration. The .45acp will out penetrate the 5.7 in ballistics gel.

The .22 mag outperforms the 5.7 round when we are talking max penetration depth. Sure the .22 mag doesn't have tumbling on its side, but i would still pick it over the 5.7.

The other problem is the weapon systems. The five seven pistol is large, expensive, and its a PITA to find ammo on shelves at LOCAL places that isn't crazy expensive. Why go through all of the expense of owning the pistol when you can get better performance with a 9mm round (in both penetration and permanent cavity size) and be able to choose from 1,000 different pistols? Not to mention you could buy a XD/glock/insert firearm that fits your hand here/etc for likely half of what a five seven is.

If the pistol matched 9mm performance in penetration, cost about 600$, had similarly priced ammo and ammo availability (compared to the 9mm), was available in smaller platforms, etc it might be a viable alternative to a 9mm pistol. The reality is it has none of those things, thus its not really in the same league as a 9mm pistol like a glock or xd.

General Geoff
May 20, 2009, 06:30 AM
I'd take the Five-seveN any day of the week over .45ACP. I'm a big proponent of small & fast over big & slow.


The .22 mag outperforms the 5.7 round when we are talking max penetration depth. Sure the .22 mag doesn't have tumbling on its side, but i would still pick it over the 5.7.

.22wmr is a straight cased, rimfire cartridge. The 5.7 is a bottlenecked, centerfire cartridge. This means far superiour feeding and ignition reliability characteristics. I'd take a 5.7 over .22wmr any day of the week for these reasons alone.

GregGry
May 20, 2009, 06:04 PM
I'd take the Five-seveN any day of the week over .45ACP. I'm a big proponent of small & fast over big & slow.

I would agree if the 5.7 performed like the 5.56. The .45 penetrates 2 to 4 inches more in ballistics gel, has a bigger permanent cavity, bigger temporary cavity, and is often close to .75 of an inch when expanded. In all ways its superior to the 5.7 except when it comes to armor penetration. Then again the 5.7 will penetrate less then the mediocre amount it does already after passing through armor.

Zerodefect
May 20, 2009, 07:36 PM
All true points Greg.

This is why I feel its better as a PDW in the P90. Still its effective, but what deos it have that a Glock 23,32 deosn't allready have.

General Geoff
May 21, 2009, 01:33 AM
I would agree if the 5.7 performed like the 5.56. The .45 penetrates 2 to 4 inches more in ballistics gel, has a bigger permanent cavity, bigger temporary cavity, and is often close to .75 of an inch when expanded. In all ways its superior to the 5.7 except when it comes to armor penetration. Then again the 5.7 will penetrate less then the mediocre amount it does already after passing through armor.

Flatter trajectory, next to no recoil (and thus faster followup shots), higher ammunition capacity.

GregGry
May 21, 2009, 06:35 AM
Flat trajectory is hard to use as a selling point with a pistol that is likely going to be used within 10 yards when it comes to self defense. The firearm itself doesn't lend itself to be a target pistol really. It holds the same amount of ammo that my CZ holds of 9mm.

The way I see it, the five seven is a light weight pistol that has light recoil. These two things are good for new shooters and when it comes to carrying it. Unfortunately it costs 900+ $, its big for its weight, the ammo is hard to get and expensive, Its trigger isn't what I would expect for the money, it can't match the performance of most 9mm hollow point rounds, etc.

Again if the five seven could match the penetration of most 9mm hollow points (13 to 14 inches in gel) and still tumble, it might be something. Unfortunately that would require more muzzle energy then what it has right now, likely by 150 to 200 ftlbs more. Considering to get to 12 inches a solid copper round had to be used which penetrated straight with no tumbling, and that the rounds that tumble penetrate to about 10.5 inches at most, its a ways away. Of course to match the penetration of a 9mm it would have more recoil and thus not have that as a selling feature.

I don't even believe in the FBis 12 inch penetration test as a absolute must have. However when I see even 380 rounds out of pocket pistols hitting 11+ while creating solid cavities, the 5.7 really seems anemic. The possibility of its light weight bullet hitting bone makes me question its performance in self defense. Relying on tumbling to provide all of the wounding characteristics is even more of a variable then relying on a hollow point expanding. Not to mention the entrance wound will not be conducive to bleeding out very fast which is something to take into consideration since not all people who are shot just drop.

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