For those born outside the U.S...


PDA






geegee
April 23, 2004, 11:25 PM
Where were you born, and if you had to live there now, how are the gun laws?

It's a slow night, so why not ask this extremely provocative gun question?

I was born in Munich, Germany. If I had to live there now, well...I'm really not too sure how the gun laws are (as regards handguns, anyway). I'm pretty confident that rifles and shotguns are okay, but handguns? Not too comfortable guessing about that. One thing's for sure-there's no way they beat what I have in Texas! :D

At least not this year. :scrutiny:

If you enjoyed reading about "For those born outside the U.S..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
9mmepiphany
April 24, 2004, 01:50 AM
i was born in Hong Kong BCC, back when it was a british crown colony. it was even illegal to have a BB rifle back there, who knows what it is like now that they turned it back over to the PRC.

i do know that one of the leading airsoft shops is just off the main drag in kowloon...so somthing may have changed with the departure of the brits

Black Majik
April 24, 2004, 02:10 AM
I was born in Taipei, Taiwan. Moved down to California as a baby, so I dont remember mucha bout it.

As for the gun laws there, I believe its strict. Or possibly a ban there.

Ask TwoBlink. He know's all the affairs that occur in Taiwan and China. :D

Jack19
April 24, 2004, 08:19 AM
Where were you born, and if you had to live there now, how are the gun laws?

Scotland. I won't even go back to visit.

ID_shooting
April 24, 2004, 08:33 AM
I was born in seattle, and wouldn't go back to save my life, does that count?

But, I have lived in foriegn countires. The only one I would ever consider going back to is Canada. We all know thier gun laws, but the part I would live in mostly chooses to ignor them.

geegee
April 24, 2004, 10:42 AM
Scotland. I won't even go back to visit.
My mother's side of our family is British (I lived in England till I was about 4 years old), and I have an uncle in Scotland that served in The Seventh Seaforth Highlanders during the Second World War. He fought at Tobruk and El Alamein (I have a few interesting photo's of him taken back then), but my mother has told me he's pretty much an anti-gun type.

Each time I read about the silliest new anti-gun law being enacted in Great Britain, I think about the type of people that once dominated that great nation sixty years ago, and have to wonder "What the heck happened?" My own mother lived in London during the Battle of Britain, and has some incredible stories of what the British people did to deal with the Nazi bombing attacks. Now it's a land of sheeple that will incarcerate a homeowner for defending his property and the lives of his family. :fire: :confused:

Denver
April 24, 2004, 11:30 AM
New Guinea.

Going back is only a fantasy. When it was a protectorate of Australia, (until 1972), the gun laws were already "these natives certainly cannot be trusted with firearms". That was before Australia herself went ghastly.

Now it's much like Somalia, from what I have heard. Third world potentates and gang-rule. Tribal warfare; it just never seems to go out of style in the third world.

KRAUTGUNNER
April 24, 2004, 12:09 PM
@ geegee:

In Germany you can own all sorts of handguns, pistols and revolvers.

Here, there are no restrictions regarding caliber or magazine capacity.

You can buy just anything like .50AE, .475 Linebaugh, .500 S&W or a Beretta 92 or SIG 226 with 20-round magazines.

But you must cut through miles of red tape to obtain a firearms permit and you can't buy unlimited numbers of handguns (the maximum is 5-6 handguns for "normal" shooters).

geegee
April 24, 2004, 01:26 PM
Krautgunner-thanks for that interesting update. I'm pleasantly surprised by that information.
you can't buy unlimited numbers of handguns (the maximum is 5-6 handguns for "normal" shooters).
Would that amount be per year, or totally?

KRAUTGUNNER
April 24, 2004, 02:53 PM
Would that amount be per year, or totally?

TOTALLY of course........ :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :banghead: :barf:

tcdrennen
April 24, 2004, 03:36 PM
KRAUTGUNNER, don't they have to keep them locked up at the gun club or something? IOW, you can't have them at home, right?

Ala Dan
April 24, 2004, 03:54 PM
I was hatched in Bombingham, AL now known
as Birmingham, AL; and home to the Civil Rights
Institute. :uhoh: (LOL :D )

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

joab
April 24, 2004, 03:57 PM
I don't know if I'm allowed to play, But I was born in Tokyo to American parents. we moved here when I was 5

From what I understand it is illegal for civilians to own metal guns. So I guess I would have to make do with a Glock:D

Japan does have one of the largest fast draw communitiea in the world though, they just have to use plastic repliguns

KRAUTGUNNER
April 24, 2004, 03:58 PM
KRAUTGUNNER, don't they have to keep them locked up at the gun club or something?

No, we must keep firearms locked up in government approved gun safes at home.

Sheslinger
April 24, 2004, 09:22 PM
Was born in Azerbaijan, USSR. No guns for us lowly civilians.

Now that money can buy anything in the former Soviet republics and bribed officials conveniently look the other way , I am sure that some people own some interesting toys.

Julie

ducktapehero
April 24, 2004, 09:36 PM
KRAUTGUNNER, are any of those safes quickly accessible or are you basically unarmed in your house?

Preacherman
April 24, 2004, 09:53 PM
I was born and raised (and spent most of my life) in South Africa. The gun laws were pretty reasonable: guns were individually licensed, rather than the owner being licensed for any number of guns, but you could get pretty much anything you liked except semi-auto long guns, which were banned except for those in rural areas facing a more serious terrorist threat. However, under the African National Congress government (in power since 1994), there has been a major crackdown on the RKBA. At present, you're allowed only ONE handgun for self-defence, and a rifle, a shotgun, etc. More than 4 firearms, and you have to qualify (in theoretical and practical tests) as a regular hunter - and you still won't get more handguns... :fire:

Good reason not to return there (at least on a permanent basis!).

KRAUTGUNNER
April 25, 2004, 02:39 AM
@ ducktapehero:

Those safes are as quickly accessible as you are able to unlock the safe with the safe key.

The problem is, that no other person except the firearms permit holder is allowed to have access to the safe, not even the spouse.

Therefore the safe must be kept locked all the time and the keys must be out of the reach of your wife/husband and the children.

Only in single-person-households where noone other is living in the house than the permit holder, he/she can carry a gun or put one in the nightstand for protection while asleep. If he/she leaves the house, all firearms must be put back in the safe.



:banghead:

c_yeager
April 25, 2004, 03:32 AM
My best friend is from Yugoslavia (or whatever they call it these days). She has expressed that weapons were not difficult to obtain but has no ideas if they are actually legal or not. I think that is probably par for the course in that nation.

As an asside having come from a country with a messed up government she is one of the VERY few females I have met in the Seattle area that has an appreciation for the RKBA in general. We were talking about politics and i mentioned that i really didnt like Bush very much but, that i was likely to vote for him anyways. She said that i should vote for Kerry (she has been influenced by ultra liberal coworkers on that regard). I responed with "Kerry wants to take my guns away". She said "Oh, ok that makes sense, don't vote for him." end of conversation. I really love people that have such clarity on the issues that matter to them.

Stand_Watie
April 25, 2004, 05:44 AM
However, under the African National Congress government (in power since 1994), there has been a major crackdown on the RKBA

Preacherman, I recently saw a south african anti-gun website wailing and ranting about how dangerous it was to be a police officer in SA, and proposing debate on disarming the police to make them safer :scrutiny:

T.Stahl
April 25, 2004, 10:57 AM
I'm was born in Germany, am living in Germany and don't plan to emigrate in the forseeable future.
There are indeed some limits as to what kind of guns you are allowed to own as a sports shooter, hunter, or collector, but there's still a lot available. Just yesterday I saw a legal (!) PSG-lookalike HK41.
I own an HK SL8 and if I'd find them at reasonable prices, I'd buy a bunch of 30rd G36-mags for it. (Ok, I'm not allowed to _use_ the mags in the gun, BUT I'm allowed to buy, own and modify them in a way that they'd fit in my SL8)
And what could keep me from unlocking my safe when I return home and lock it when I leave? My guns are just as accessible as the bottle of cola in the fridge or the telephone right next to my computer. I'm allowed to handle my weapons inside my home no matter who else is present. I just have to take care that they are not abused by someone.

KRAUTGUNNER, how and where do you clean your guns? At the range when only other gun-owners are present? :D

Lone Star
April 25, 2004, 11:21 AM
C. Yeager-

I thought your best friend was Bud Anderson. ?? Which reminds me: I just bought one of those metal models of a P-51 Mustang. Glad to see that they offer replicas of both your Glamorous Glen and his Old Crow.

Or, are you a different C. Yeager?

Lone Star

c_yeager
April 26, 2004, 02:38 AM
Or, are you a different C. Yeager?


I am A c_yeager but not THE c_yeager. Well, actually i think im the definitive article but, most history books and just about everyone else would dissagree.

There are a lot of "Yeagers" out there. As well as Jaggers Jaegers Yaegers etc. It appears that our two families got the same clerk at ellis island.

LawDog
April 26, 2004, 11:54 AM
You know, that's a really good question.

I was born on the island of Malta to American parents. I know that when we were there in the sixties, Dad kept his hunting rifles at our apartment.

These days, I couldn't tell you. I'm pretty sure that ownership of any firearm requires a police permit, but that's just the impression I've got - I can't back that up with any quotes from Maltese law.

I would, very much, like to go back for a visit.

LawDog

twoblink
April 26, 2004, 12:08 PM
Ask TwoBlink. He know's all the affairs that occur in Taiwan and China.

No guns allowed unless you are the police here, and even then, you have to be a beat-cop. Some traffic cops only wear holsters..

Airsofts only, and BB's will land you in jail...

It's about as draconian as it gets here as far as guns..

What is ironic is that basically guns flow into Taiwan freely from China. The entire country is an island, and there's absolutely no way to catch small fishing boats bringing anything from China..

If you want to, you can own a hunting rifle; but you would then have to prove that you depend on hunting to provide food for the family (and that usually goes along with an address somewhere in the mountains) the gun AND the bullets have to be registered... There is a cop that will go around and count how many rounds you have fired that year, and you have to be able to show the casings. (Thus, it makes it nearly impossible to own a semi-auto, only bolt actions) Oddly enough, my friend Sheila's dad has one. But the paperwork (mountains of paper work from what I hear) got so rediculous that he I think got the barrel concreted (ouch!) and now it just sits on his mantel..

burbanite
April 26, 2004, 06:11 PM
New Zealand.

Used to be that everyone had some sort of gun, hunting is popular and as kids we would shoot rabbits and possum and anything small and furry that moved...;)

The police weren't armed and everyone lived blissfully, or so we were led to believe. Gangs had the run of the place, shootouts were common among rivals and still we looked on innocently and said "thank goodness we don't own handguns as we would only use them on each other, much better to have a cup of tea and talk it over"... or so we were told.

Nowadays to own anything like an AR for instance requires many dollars and a specific type of license along with membership of a club that allows you to shoot it there and only there. There are different levels of licenses for different guns and each requires that you enslave yourself to bureaucracy just to keep it. Carry licenses? Huh? Why would you want to do that? Our unarmed police keep us safe right?

Beautiful country, my family is still there and I would consider eventually retiring there but for one thing....I would have to pretty much give up a part of my life that I don't wish to.

papercut
April 27, 2004, 01:44 AM
Born and grew up in Mississippi, now living in Georgia.

Gun laws? What gun laws? :neener:

Well, OK, there are a few....I ought to be able to remember them all word for word (it's not like trying to remember all the Presidents or something!), but it's late.

And to everyone now living in the U.S. yet were born elsewhere, welcome! http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/contrib/legionxs/wavey.gif Have a glass of sweet tea and sit for a spell.

Valkman
April 27, 2004, 02:11 AM
I was born in a country of great beauty but horrible, draconian gun laws and politicians.

California. Worse yet, San Francisco! :uhoh:

S_O_Laban
April 27, 2004, 03:23 AM
I was born in the southern part of India to american parents,back in the middle sixties. I lived there only a year and then we moved elsewhere. I did go back on vacation several times after that but was under ten years old at the time. I don't really know much about the firearm laws. I do know my dad took a pre 64 winchester model 94 to hunt with and didn't seem to have any trouble traveling with it all over the world. That was the sixties and early seventies though. I would like to go back someday to see where I was born.

igor
April 27, 2004, 06:45 AM
I was born and live in Finland. Firearms are licenced and you need to establish a "legit need" to get a licence to buy each individual gun.

You can get what you want, so far. "Needs" that are good to go are any sports, hunting and most notably military 3-gun that is emerging here. I just got an RO licence in that: and mostly any male here can establish practicing for that sport since 80% of each vintage still serve a training period of 6-12 months and remain in active reserve, periodically trained for a week or so, until 45-60 years old.

Obtaining your licence typically takes a couple of weeks, but if there's a deal running away and you're lucky enough to get two minutes with the chief, you'll get your licence to buy written and stamped right there.

Weapons are to be stored locked or with a part separated, ammo always separated. If five or more firearms are present in a household, an approved safe or other container/room/whatever is needed.

There is no CCW nor any need for such. Criminal violence in public places or by strangers is extremely rare, even more so in a life-threatening way... that said, a lunatic with an axe killed a random bystander in the Helsinki subway just a week ago.

For full auto you need to establish "collector" status. Piles of red tape... very few go there, but it's possible. In all, there are restrictions only as to the minimum OAL of rifles, which makes folders cumbersome to licence. The same with carbines, especially of the semi-auto SMG type. There's an established practice going on that has frozen licencing of MP-5 SASMG's to citizens. A new category for such arms is in the works, a "carbine" class... for now they'd go into "firearm, other" that has been illegally twisted into a de facto verboten class in many jurisdictions.

They say it's the EU demanding this or that, but that is a load of BS. Neither the EU nor the UN are the least bit interested in citizens' small arms in civilized countries. Whoever is is using them as a scapegoat.

So we're fending off a hoplophobic development in policy while having an entirely sound legal basis. The logic is different from the constitutional RKBA logic, but that's our history working. It mostly revolves around the ubiquitous conscript reserve defence forces thing. If that were to go away (e.g. as a side effect of joining NATO, which is under scrutiny), we'll be royally screwed.

Countries with professional armies get IMHO elitist, hoplophobic. socially polarized and in the end, chaotic to totalitarian or vice versa. See GB for a model. I'm not emigrating anywhere, save maybe for a temporary job stint in the coming years.

saddenedcitizen
April 27, 2004, 07:19 PM
No need for CCW ?
Where have I heard that before ?
Oh, yeah, now I remember - it comes from
people who have never been attacked and think
their world is a wonderful mink-lined place where
everyone has only love and kindness in
their hearts.
Somehow,I doubt that the person killed with an
ax would agree with you.
Rarity of criminal activity is poor comfort when YOU
are the object of that activity.
Not trying to be nasty, it's just that I have
heard that so many times from people who
honestly believe that they will never be harmed
because they live in a 'safe neighborhood'.

igor
April 29, 2004, 08:51 AM
Whatever... :rolleyes:

Not trying to be picky either, but you seem to have no idea of what kind of a culture we live in, nor the history that dictates our legislation, and the least of what kind of a person I am ;) . Seriously, the risk of drowning in a bucket in my own home is greater than being attacked with potentially lethal violence. And I'm certainly not the kind of guy to view the world as something created at Walt Disney Productions... :D

Let me pose a question. If you could assess your security situation properly and observe reliably that no need to carry existed, wouldn't you happily leave it in the safe?

Stand_Watie
April 29, 2004, 09:21 AM
...Let me pose a question. If you could assess your security situation properly and observe reliably that no need to carry existed, wouldn't you happily leave it in the safe?

I don't think I would ever come to the conclusion that no need to carry existed. If I lived in North Dakota or Montana I'd still carry despite being far less likely (statistically) to be a homicide victim than in Finland.

I think it's more a matter of each individual balancing their perceived need against the nuisance of carrying.

igor
April 29, 2004, 06:31 PM
Statistics on homicide per capita say little about the nature of violence and how its prevalence is distributed among the populace. The prevalent Finnish homicide takes place among groups of alienated male alcoholists between 35 and 55 in age, with blunt or edged weapons as tools of violence. With a population of five million altogether, the percentages quickly get ugly.

Then there's the culture of contraband-trafficking professional criminals who possess the significant numbers of illegal arms; but their violence also seems to remain very well contained within their own ranks, among members so to speak. No hot burglaries occur (well, that's where the prevalence of armed households show ;) ). Altogether, the risk for victimization, unless one is active in the mentioned subcultures, is minuscule .

You have a good point about this maybe being just an individual jacking his own palances though... :scrutiny: :D . But it doesn't change the status quo here. And believe me, should there be a change for worse and a clear emerging need, I'll be in the forefront of the alarmists who take an active stance for a shift in policy to reflect reality - and put in my own time educating and training people, which I already do. With our traditions, I seriously doubt that we'd have any Dunblane-type reactions leaking all the way thru to legislation, but the opposite.

Stand_Watie
April 29, 2004, 09:45 PM
Statistics on homicide per capita say little about the nature of violence and how its prevalence is distributed among the populace. The prevalent Finnish homicide takes place among groups of alienated male alcoholists between 35 and 55 in age, with blunt or edged weapons as tools of violence. With a population of five million altogether, the percentages quickly get ugly.

It's certainly true that most American homicides are also between young (perhaps younger than 35, I'd say 18 to 35) males involved in confrontations with each other, or in domestic situations, and aren't stranger/stranger crime, even in the states with lower homicide rates than Finland. Of course these statistics are meaningless if you're the exception to the rule.

Then again, carrying a gun can have advantages other than simply protecting yourself from homicidal humans.

I doubt if there has been a homicide on my property since the Indian wars of the 1800's, but just a couple days ago whilst mowing my yard I needed a firearm - didn't have one one me because I'm too lazy to clean grass clippings out of my gun after mowing - and so I had to sprint to the toolshed to get a get a garden impliment to kill a poisonous snake (see the hunting forum). If I ever roll my car into a river or lake I've got a nice emergency exit tool handy to break the window and get out of the vehicle, something that (unlikely as it is) would probably be just as neccessary in Finland as in Texas.

Certainly need to carry is very much a subjective perception, but I think it's nice to have the option open subject to my own judgement.

UnknownSailor
April 29, 2004, 10:45 PM
Nurenburg, at then West Germany

Army brat, ya know....

Moved back home 8 months after I was born.

I prefer the U.S. to anywhere else, and I have been around. (Japan [including Okinawa], Hong Kong, Singapore, Austrailia [including Tazmania], Greece, U.A.E., Baharain. Soon: Norway, Scotland, maybe Portugal).

I visited a gun shop in Tazmania (1997), and selection was puny, and prices astronomical. 2000 Aus for a 1911!?! yikes!

DonNikmare
April 30, 2004, 02:05 AM
Bulgaria

Even BB Guns were illegal to own - we could only shoot those at fairs and amuzement parks. You could own a rifle if you were a member of a hunting club which was very exculsive. Growing up I knew of no one who owned a rifle or any kind of other firearm. So I satisfied my needs through home made slinshots and other devices, some of whoom involved gun powder but only for the purpose of producing a load bang and pestering the neighberhood.

Boys played war with long thin blow pipes (often taken off an outdoor antena) mounted on home made wood stocks. We would take slick magazine paper and cut into 1''x6''to8'' and twist and pull those to form long thin funnels. We would take the funnels, insert them into the pipe as far as they would go and cut off the remaining portion - this would provide a tight fit allowing for greater use of the expelled air and thus better velocity and distance. We would make mag holders for the funels out of cardboard box material. A typical Summer afternoon involved a long funnel making session, separation into two groups and having us a war. The high tech evil "assault" ammo/funnels had tips dipped in super glue, pins attatched with a small peice of tape both of whoom were able to penetrate one layer of thin clothing and skin. Grown - ups always said "Don't play with funnels! You could lose an eye." But I never heard of or met anyone who actually had. The best Shooters/Blowers of us with the best funnel rifles could blow the funnels as high as an eight story building - pretty amazing for a small peice of paper. BUT I have digressed.

Higher ranking and higher conected Communist Party members were able to join the Hunting Club and own firearms although I'm not sure if they were allowed to have those in their homes.

Now with Communism gone you could actually find a gun store or two. In fact one of the biggest gun stores is managed by a close relative of mine who under Communism grew up looking at US Gun magazines. However, you can only own a firearm if you are in some sort of security business or have a high risk profession and can demonstrate that your life is at a reasonable risk.

Laws allow for use of deadly force only as a last resort. Last resort there means you've gotten a couple of bleeding knive wounds, missing an eye and some teeth, and shooting the attacker if his next knife blow is headed for your heart. At least that's the impression I got when I read the law after it had just been approved. During Communism the concept of killing another in self-defense was not legal.

Nik

If you enjoyed reading about "For those born outside the U.S..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!