[sasnofear]

any suggestions, preferably below $1000

[cratz2]

Man, there's a ton of 'em! 308s, 30-06s, 7mm mags, various .30 cal mags.

If you can take the recoil, the 300 Win Mag would be a good place to start. Maybe a Remington Sendero in 300 with a Weaver Grand Slam or Nikon Monarch 6.5-20 scope. Should serve pretty well for the price.

[sasnofear]

im not worried about cal as most models are made in a wide range of cals (though im going to go for 308 as 30-06 is inferior to it & i dont need magnum as im only going out 2 1000yrds)

Im just looking for rifle suggestions, i already know what sort of glass im after. though im trying to get rifle & scope on a budget without skimping on accuracy. dont mind single shots either coz their cheaper

thanks 4 any suggestions

[Marshall]

The .30-06 is inferior to a .308? Please tell me how and where? And, that .300 WSM will outperform them both at 1000yds to the point of being rediculous.

As for off the shelf accurate rifles in your price range, see Browning and Savage.

[BHP9]

First let me state that it is amazing how well factory rifles shoot considering the fact that they were originally designed with actions that were to be used on lightweight sporter or military rifles. But they are sadly not the best platform for a long range rifle and here is why.

I recently got done watching the history channel and they discussed shooting at 1,000 yards with some match shooters who I believe were competing in the Palma 1,000 yard matches. Looking at their rifles it was easy to see that they were all using very stiff custom made bench rest actions and for good reason. No sporting rifle action made is really heavy enough or stiff enough to keep from flexing when a heavy barrel is hung out in space (free floated) on their light weight sporter weight type actions.

I have seen actions like the Remington 700 which is basically cylindrical in shap have aluminum sleeves put on them to stiffen them up for serious accuracy work but it is not the better way to go when so many excellent heavy duty bech rest actions are available.

As far a calibers there are those that believe in the magnum calibers to get the bullet to the target as quickly as possible and those that believe in the more milder calibers with high ballistic coeffient and milder recoil to avoid the fatigue factor are the better way to go that results in scores not deteriorating rather quickly because of recoil fatigue.

It seems as though the pro's are all using milder type cartridges in 6.5 caliber these days so perhaps those that have never peeked into this sport in depth would only think of traditional calibers like the .308, 30-06, and various 300 and 338 magnums all of which are excellent calibers but in the end it is not so much the caliber at all but the skill of the man behind the rifle. Real rifleman only use the aid of a sling for such shooting and would no more consider using bi-pods or sandbags ( even if legal) than they would consider going to church stark naked on a Sunday morning.

[dakotasin]

i went w/ the 7 rem mag. load up some lost river bullets w/ a bc of around .715, and have a ball.

for platforms... look for a sendero, or a plain model 700. my brother went the savage route (7 rem mag) and has been unsatisfied w/ the rifle as a whole, though it seems to be pretty accurate.

the problem w/ 'standard' rounds is going to come in to play around 800-1000 yards when they go subsonic. although my experience w/ the 30-06 is very limited, i would take it over a 308 for a dedicated long range shooter as it has more velocity. for short range, velocity is not as critical, but for extended range, velocity is king.

'course, 1000 yards is a long ways away, and by the time you are consistently hitting where you want at 800 yards, you'll have probably blown the tube and will be ready to rebarrel...

anyway, good luck.

[dakotasin]

let me add that what bhp9 says about the benchrest actions is true... however, will probably exceed the $1000 limit before you get to barrel and glass and trigger and...

[SteyrAUG]

The .308 will go out to a 1,000 yards.

That said a .22 LR will go a mile.

Doesn't mean the average shooter is going to be doing precision shooting at a 1,000 years anymore than he will shoot targets a mile away with a .22lr.

This is why the US Army Markmanship Team (you know, the guys who shoot way better than anyone here) uses the US Army Magnum Rifle (.300 Win Mag) when going out to 1,000 yards and beyond.

For the best shooters in the world (that would be nobody here) precision shooting at 1,000 yards is possible but extremely difficult.

From all the shooter logs I've seen (including mine) the .308 realistically is a 800 yard weapon.

[cratz2]

So are you asking which rifles dominate the 1,000 scene?

I guess I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. You want to know which rifles will shoot out to 1,000 yards, you know what caliber you want and what scope you want.

Cheap: Savage
Not so cheap: Remington 700 or Winchester 70
Less cheap still: Sako or Remington 40X
Even less cheap: Sako tactical, Blazer
Super not cheap: Accuracy International

Almost any rifle will get out to 1,000 yards. Just depends on how small you want the groups to be. ;)

How much 600 yard shooting have you done? That might dictate how much you should spend on a 1,000 yard gun - if you can't keep every single shot inside 12" at 600 yards, 1,000 is going to be very frustrating.

[MarineTech]

My suggestion is as follows:

Get yourself a Thompson Center Encore Rifle action sans barrel. Contact a custom Encore barrel maker such as Bullberry Barrel works or Virgin Valley Custom Guns. Order yourself either a heavy profile or bull profile 26" barrel in .300 Win Mag. Attach optics and start shooting.

Encores are proving to be exceptionally accurate, especially with a quality custom barrel. You're not going to have a rapid follow up with the single shot Encore, but when firing at 1000yards you don't generally need it. This also gives you the ability later on to add barrels for other shooting tasks (.308, 22-250, etc) at relatively low cost, instead of buying a complete rifle.

The above option should run you about $600 - $700 without whatever glass you have selected.

[hps1]

The Palma match requires the use of a rifle chambered for the 7.62 nato cartridge, so if Palma shooting is what you wish to do, you are limited to that caliber. Palma rifles must also have metalic sights.......no scopes. There are, of course, other 1000 yd matches which allow the use of "any-any" rifles (any caliber, any sights).

Many 1000 yd shooters use Mod. 70 Win. or 700 Remingtons (The 40X is based on the 700 action) and if you plan to keep the cost in the $1000 range your choices will pretty much be limited to the Savage, Rem. or Win.

The 30-06 (IMHO) is a better 1000 yard choice than the 308 due to the ability to keep heavier bullets supersonic at that range (approx. 1100 fps.).

The 300 magnums are quite punishing to shoot 51 shots
(2 sighters + 15 shots for record ea. @ 800, 900 & 1000 yds)
from the prone position as has been previously posted

As Cratz2 said, the 10 ring @ 600 yds is 12"; the 1000 yd. 10 ring is also 2 moa or 20" but that extra 400 yds will sure tell on ya!:)

Regards,
hps

[Art Eatman]

Thread drift, dumb curiosity, mostly for Cratz2.

My old pet '06 is a Weatherby 26" '06. I set up a 500-yard range at my house.

So: I meddled around, sorta casual, and got a couple of four-shot, four-inch groups with 165-grain hunting loads. Then, I did a ten-shot string of 180-grain loads. These gave me eight hits inside of six inches, plus two called flyers that I knew I pulled off at the time I shot--and I wasn't particularly doing it slowly. "No rush; no wait."

I really don't know: Is this at all exceptional? To me, it was just sorta what I expected. I've been shooting the danged thing for some 30 years; maybeso some 4,000 rounds through it. I just don't have anything to judge by or compare against. That's the problem with being a loner, I guess...

Art

[Gordon]

Remington 700 in .338 Rum $700, Tasco Super Sniper scope(discontinued) $250, mounts and rings: Weaver tactical $50=$1000 , Load 300grain sierra matchkings behind H-1000 for 3000fps and you will be supersonic to way over a mile with a 300grain .338 bullet that should do moa.This scope has proven to be OK on .50bmg guns and has massive elevation range.You can easily tune 700 trigger to 1.5 lb glass bed factory stock and Remington guns usually prove wonderfully accurate and trouble free.This is what I'd build for 1000yds + if I didn't have a M82a1 Barrett.

[cratz2]

To further the thread drift :p ...

The furthest I can routinely shoot is 200 yards. I manage to keep most of my shots inside 3" almost every single time. I've shot a few groups right around 1" but if you shoot enough groups, you're bound to end up with a few good ones. I'm not a big precision shooter but have a friend that is. He can shoot to 600 yards and out to 300 yards basically right off his loading bench. He shoots a 14 lb 25-06 quasi Improved with one of those 4 oz triggers. At 600 yards his groups are pretty consistantly under 3", often between 1.5 and 2. Great shooter, very calm, very controlled. At 600 yards, even with that rifle I'm lucky to keep a 5" group. A 2" difference may not sound like much to folks that haven't done a lot of shooting at this distance, but trust me... it's significant.

I've also tried shooting my other buddy's 270 BDL with iron sights at 300 yards... as I've said on other threads, I was never really trained to shoot with iron sights so I wasn't really expecting much but my groups were... embarassing. But my good shooter friend's groups were very respectable

[cratz2]

To answer the original question, 4 shots at 4" at 500 yards ain't bad at all.

My general rule, though I'm in no position to make such rules, is 2 MOA is nothing to be ashamed of at all! That's still big game taking shooting out past 300 yards, assuming a makeshift rest. Or that's MOM out to pert near 800 yards. If you can do this with a factory rifle, be it a Savage or a Weatherby, that's all the better.

[Art Eatman]

What I've learned has come from a bit of family advice, here and there, and a lot of cut-and-try.

I figured out early on about long barrels vs. velocity for an '06. It was decades later before I heard about "overbore". My uncle told me early on about "vibrations", and it was years and years later before I got any further feel about "why". Same sort of thing for varying powder brands/types and bullets...

So, I've meddled along and found out a few things, which I've tried to pass along to folks at TFL and here. That's why a lot of what I post is "Here's what I've found." and "This is maybeso why it happens."

Living off in the middle of nowhere, I rarely have anybody with whom to compare notes, so I'm not always knowledgeable as to whether what I've found out is really helpful or just "so-so; everybody already knows that".

Folks talk about a .308 being inherently more accurate than a .30-'06. For the various reasons given for this, it follows that a Short Magnum has the potential to be more accurate at 1,000 yards than the .308. Like the song says, "It's just a matter of time."

:), Art

[Bullet]

I would suggest a Remington 700. Make it a PSS if you can find one.

[Kahr carrier]

Ditto Remington 300 Win Mag 700 Pss.:)

[El Rojo]

I shoot my Remington 700 VS in .308 at 1000 yard matches. It does do best at 800 yards when shooting "F" class palma. Then they spread a little more at 900 and then I do ok at 1000.

[sasnofear]

thanks 4 all the replys guys. the remmy Pss and Vs seem to be popular choices amoung you. I need to ask though, El Rogo or anyone else who knows, but as you shoot in the 1000rd matches with your remmy 700Pss, did you do anything extra to it like bedding etc or did you just use it 'off the shelf'?


thanks

adam

[dakotasin]

asking a factory gun to shoot 1000 yard competition is asking a lot. to ask the same rifle to do it unmodified is asking way too much.

at the minimum, you'll need a good trigger set pretty light, and the barrel floated, and action bedded. (trigger work $40-200, barrel float $20, glass bedding $20-60).

[El Rojo]

The only thing I modified on my rifle was to put a 20 MOA angled base on the gun and I did a little trigger modification on my factory trigger. Other than that, it shoots OK out to 1000 yards. I mean I am not going to be as good as the guys who spent a lot more on their guns and know the wind better than me, but I am still competitive. I like the F Class because I don't have to do anything special. I just use my regular scope and bipod. Lately I haven't been doing that great, but I think something else is the matter, my gun hasn't been shooting as tight as it used to. I don't know if I dinged up the crown or if my stock tension is just not at optimum.

Everyone will tell you something different, but the VS is supposed to come with an aluminum bedding block so you don't have to freefloat it. Some people will tell you it still needs to be done, others will tell you that HS doesn't quite do the custom job that some require. This might all be true. I don't worry about it too much. I just shoot F class Palma and 1000 yard matches for a little fun now and then. I don't have the money to get into it to the maximum effort. A stock Remington 700 VS or PSS with a decent scope and 20 MOA angled base will allow you to do the same. Just ask on here how to adjust your own trigger or go to the www.thefiringline.com and do a search to find out how to do it.

If you got the money and want to go custom, go for it. Your options there are endless. A friend of mine ordered a 6.5x284 and it cost him a few thousand. I am sure it will be a great 1000 yard gun.

The nice thing about getting a Remington 700 VS or PSS in .308 is you can use it for just about everything. I use mine for that long range shooting, hunting pigs and deer, coyotes, and squirrels. Not so much deer anymore cause it weighs a ton. Good luck with figuring it all out.

[sasnofear]

thanks v.much rojo, you've been a great help (so have the rest of u's) and answered my question. Though i just want to ask one more thing, whats the diff between a 700VS and 700PSS

thanks

[Gordon]

I didn't see you were from N. Ireland when I told you to get .338 RUM. You should pick up a .303 longrange match gun fairly reasonably over there and they are set up to go 1000yds allready. Yank stuff will be expensive and hard to get!:)

[Bullet]

The Rem 700 VS-PSS both have aluminum bedding blocks and both have free floated barrels. I believe the differences are in caliber. VS - (22-250)- 223-308. PSS - 223-308-300 Win Mag. I think the PSS has palm swells not sure about the VS.

[El Rojo]

The difference between VS and PSS are simple. The VS has more of a sporting stock with black finish and greyish lines in it. Plus the bolt is not flat black, but sort of a polished chrome kind look. http://www.remington.com/images/firearms/700vs.jpg

The PSS has a wider forend stock, an extra QD stud up front, and a completely flat finish, bolt included. The gun and the barrel are the exact same on each. http://www.remingtonle.com/images/rifle/700p1.jpg

Now the biggest difference is going to be the price. Expect to get the VS for $100-$200 less. You can put that money into buying a new stock if you want. Plus you can sell your replaced stock for a nice sum on eBay or whatever auction site you want. I sold my stock on eBay for $150, plus it was already painted over. Here is what my rig looks like. http://home.bak.rr.com/elrojo14/pictures/700prtc4.jpg

[sasnofear]

thanks rojo, you've helped me out greatly with this i dont know where i'd be without you...you know what, come this summer im gonna buy it!

thanks again and i'll follow ur advice with stock and put my own paint job on it( though mine i'll need to be greener) ;)

thank you

adam

[Covey Rise]

A small company about 3 hours from my door, takes a Rem 700 Sendero in 25-06, and orders a match barrel in 6.5X280, redoes the action, and some trigger stuff. Calls it a 284? Says it will shoot out to 2000 yards, and guarantees under .5 moa.

[CWL]

To throw in my opinion, the Rem PSS is normally used within 100 yards in it's LE application.

sasnofear, interesting name & location you hail from. I thought you guys were disarming.

[Gewehr98]

To throw in my opinion, the Rem PSS is normally used within 100 yards in it's LE application.

Which really makes me wonder what the law enforcement reasons are for the newer Remington 700 PSS in .300 Winchester Magnum, and the even bigger .300 Remington Ultra Mag. Lotta knockdown power for those 100 yard engagements, ain't it? I wonder if the law enforcement marketing guys at Big Green would care to explain it. :confused:

[El Rojo]

Key word is "normally". Even though most engagements are going to be at 100 yards or less, they need to be ready for the long shot. If we all went around thinking about what we only might "normally" use, we would have a cell phone and our brain. I however prepare for what I normally won't use and carry a Glock 27 in my wasteband. It is better to have one and not need it than to not have it and need it.

[Okie1KnoB]

The 6.5x55 Tikka will run u under 1000.00 and it will reach out to 1000yds....!!! Take a look at " www.tikka.fi/faq2.html " A Tikka won a British 1000yd Match with a 10rds. group of 4.4" I know a lot of guys who can't hold 4.4" @ a 100yds..... ROFL

Hope the Info Helps.....!!!

Okie1KnoB .... :D