A tax on firearms same as tax on voting?


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usmarine0352_2005
October 29, 2015, 01:00 PM
I know that guns can have a standard tax on them. However, more and more politicians are wanting and passing legislation that adds excessive taxes to guns and ammo in an attempt to 'lower crime'.


Well, everyone knows that the real reason is to deter and make harder the purchasing of guns and ammo.



I believe you can't add a charge to voting to stop people from attempting to stop people from voting since voting is Constituationally protected.



Wouldn't the same thing be said for adding excessive taxes to guns and ammo, since it is also Constitionally protected?

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MErl
October 29, 2015, 01:51 PM
One could think that but they are obviously not regulated the same way. A person cannnot even be required to show photo ID to vote, let alone attend a class or take a test.

Deanimator
October 29, 2015, 02:10 PM
I'm open to that argument.

I'm also open to the argument that if voter ID is racist, then given the Jim Crow history of gun control, gun owner ID is even MORE invidiously racist.

I've put that question to a number of anti-gun cultists. Most of them refuse even to answer. The one or two who have, had to tie themselves into knots trying to do so, even to the extent of pretending not to know the history of "literacy tests" for voting or how they were used to suppress voting.

Arkansas Paul
October 29, 2015, 02:24 PM
However, more and more politicians are wanting and passing legislation that adds excessive taxes to guns and ammo in an attempt to 'lower crime'.

They've already done so with other products. Tobacco taxes are crazy in some states as well as taxes on alcohol. You know for health reasons.

You know, so they can save us from ourselves. :rolleyes:

Dave P
October 29, 2015, 02:29 PM
"Tobacco taxes are crazy in some states "

And the un-intended consequence is folks selling individual cigarettes - like the man in NYC that was choked-holded and died because he was selling singles!

Arkansas Paul
October 29, 2015, 02:56 PM
^ Yeah that was crazy.
Whatever someone's opinion is on issues like tobacco use, most would agree that the over the top taxes on them is crazy to have in a "free" country.
I am not a cigarette smoker, but do enjoy pipes and cigars very much. I order online to avoid the crazy taxes (even though Arkansas is cheap compared to many states) but I don't know how much longer they're going to allow us to get around it that way.

It is a violation of rights any way you look at it. Just like it would be with guns, though guns moreso because it is actually a constitutionally protected right.

oneounceload
October 29, 2015, 04:15 PM
Cigarettes and alcohol are not protected under the Constitution the way arms are.

Schwing
October 29, 2015, 04:28 PM
The unbelievable control that the Federal Government has taken over firearms is based almost solely on the commerce clause.

As with so many other things, the supreme court has had various rulings over the years that have further increased or decreased federal, state and local government's ability to enforce various laws. These rulings also further defined and, IMO, weakly justified the governments use of the commerce clause to enforce firearms restrictions. Because of these rulings, even INTRASTATE commerce can now be regulated by the feds.

Here:https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43033.pdf

This is one of the best descriptions I have seen on the subject.

AlexanderA
October 29, 2015, 04:30 PM
It would seem that a tax on mere possession of guns would infringe on the 2nd Amendment right. But is anyone seriously proposing this? A manufacturers' excise tax on guns has been around a long time and has not been challenged (particularly because the revenue from that tax is dedicated to wildlife conservation efforts). Likewise, a sales tax imposed on gun sales, at the general tax rate, would not be an infringement. But a grossly discriminatory sales tax, applying only to guns, it seems to me, would be open to challenge on 2nd Amendment grounds.

Even the NFA tax is not a tax on possession, but on transfer, or making. It's transaction-based, and not object-based.

Schwing
October 29, 2015, 04:39 PM
It would seem that a tax on mere possession of guns would infringe on the 2nd Amendment right. But is anyone seriously proposing this? A manufacturers' excise tax on guns has been around a long time and has not been challenged (particularly because the revenue from that tax is dedicated to wildlife conservation efforts). Likewise, a sales tax imposed on gun sales, at the general tax rate, would not be an infringement. But a grossly discriminatory sales tax, applying only to guns, it seems to me, would be open to challenge on 2nd Amendment grounds.

Even the NFA tax is not a tax on possession, but on transfer, or making. It's transaction-based, and not object-based.
I agree. It is blatant infringement on a fundamental right.

A couple of years ago, a few states were purposing voter I.D. laws that would require folks who don't have a legal form of picture I.D. to obtain one from the state to be allowed to vote. Many of the same folks who are FOR these gun taxes were crying foul claiming that this requirement would pose an unfair and unnecessary burden upon citizens trying to exercise a constitutional right. I heard it referred to as the "voting tax" more than once.

It gets frustrating when hypocrisy is just blatantly ignored if it even gets recognized at all.

Arkansas Paul
October 29, 2015, 05:21 PM
Cigarettes and alcohol are not protected under the Constitution the way arms are.

I know.
That's why my last sentence was, "Just like it would be with guns, though guns moreso because it is actually a constitutionally protected right." ;)

larryh1108
October 29, 2015, 05:38 PM
I think any additional tax on firearms and ammo would then be used, by the government, to push their anti-gun agendas. We'd be subsidizing their tyranny against us. Something is so wrong with this scenario but if I understand things correctly, the courts can't really step in when it concerns taxes.

txblackout
October 29, 2015, 07:19 PM
I know that guns can have a standard tax on them. However, more and more politicians are wanting and passing legislation that adds excessive taxes to guns and ammo in an attempt to 'lower crime'.


Well, everyone knows that the real reason is to deter and make harder the purchasing of guns and ammo.



I believe you can't add a charge to voting to stop people from attempting to stop people from voting since voting is Constituationally protected.

Someone with standing has to challenge it



Wouldn't the same thing be said for adding excessive taxes to guns and ammo, since it is also Constitionally protected?
Supreme court had ruled it unconstitutional for voting. All other products ate not constitutionally protected

JSH1
October 29, 2015, 10:56 PM
I believe you can't add a charge to voting to stop people from attempting to stop people from voting since voting is Constitutionally protected.

It is unconsitutional to charge taxes to vote because the 24th amendment specifically says so:

"The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax."


Wouldn't the same thing be said for adding excessive taxes to guns and ammo, since it is also Constitionally protected?

Nothing in the Constitution says guns cannot be taxed.

One could think that but they are obviously not regulated the same way. A person cannnot even be required to show photo ID to vote, let alone attend a class or take a test.

17 states currently require a photo ID to vote.

rcmodel
October 29, 2015, 11:24 PM
There is already a 11% Excise Tax on guns & Ammo, since 1937.

Called the Pittman–Robertson Act.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman–Robertson_Federal_Aid_in_Wildlife_Restoration_Act

But, in my view, it's a good tax.

The money has been used to restore wildlife habitat, and improve hunting oppertunities all over the country.

rc

Tirod
October 30, 2015, 10:27 AM
Other than the hunting tax, I'd like to specifically hear about the other "high" taxes on firearms that have been enacted.

How high are they, and where?

I'm smelling false outrage over something that doesn't exist.

usmarine0352_2005
October 30, 2015, 12:23 PM
Other than the hunting tax, I'd like to specifically hear about the other "high" taxes on firearms that have been enacted.

How high are they, and where?

I'm smelling false outrage over something that doesn't exist.



Here's a few.



http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/27/new-bill-would-force-americans-to-pay-100-tax-on-every-gun/




New Bill Would Force Americans To Pay $100 Tax On Every Gun

EMMA COLTON

2:24 PM 10/27/2015

A U.S. congresswoman plans to introduce a bill later this week that would require a $100 tax on all gun sales nationwide. If the bill is passed by Congress, the revenue made off of the tax will go toward mental health and anti-violence programs.

Democratic Congresswoman Nydia Velazquez, from New York, announced the federal legislation called “Reducing Gun Violence in our Neighborhoods Act” at NYC’s City Hall on Monday, according to the New York Daily News.
The bill plans to curb the number of guns bought and sold across the country, while generating tax revenue that will be distributed by the Justice Department to mental health and anti-violence programs.




http://mynewsla.com/government/2015/10/06/will-l-a-snag-seattles-guns-and-ammo-tax/



Will L.A. snag Seattle’s guns and ammo tax?

POSTED BY HILLARY JACKSON ON OCTOBER 6, 2015

Two members of the Los Angeles City Council are proposing a tax on gun and ammunition sales, similar to a measure recently adopted in Seattle.

Councilman Paul Krekorian said the tax revenue could fund programs to curb gun violence.

“There are mass shootings daily in this country, many of which could be stopped by sound policies and better gun violence prevention programs,” Krekorian said.

He said the gun tax proposal that he and fellow Councilman Paul Koretz are proposing is “another important step” the city could take to address gun violence.





http://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2015/10/26/how-seattle-is-using-a-tax-on-gun-owners-against-gun-owners/




How Seattle Is Using A Tax On Gun Owners Against Gun Owners

by Frank Miniter - Monday, October 26, 2015

Ken Stok, a U.S. Army veteran, looked baffled as he stepped up to the podium before the Seattle City Council. He’d heard that his home city of Seattle was contemplating slapping gun owners with a “Gun Violence Tax.” Gun owners would have to pay a $25 tax on any gun they buy and a 5-cent tax on each round of ammunition (2 cents for .22-caliber) they purchase in the city to pay for harm caused by criminals who misuse guns.

Stok had fought in Afghanistan, gun in hand, to win and defend the freedom of a foreign country, and had come back home to “the land of the free and the home of the brave,” as Francis Scott Key put it. Now his city was debating whether it should punish him for choosing to exercise his Second Amendment rights? As soon as it was signed, the National Rifle Association, the NSSF, the Second Amendment Foundation, firearms retailers and private gun owners filed a lawsuit against the city of Seattle, alleging that its new firearms and ammunition sales tax ordinance is illegal and unenforceable.

Stok got right to the point. He asked the council members: “I want to know how my gun ownership is causing violence and crime?”

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