Ohio: rifles with magazine capacity > 31 rounds


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braindead0
April 27, 2004, 02:54 PM
ORC 2921.11 E states(E) "Automatic firearm" means any firearm designed or specially adapted to fire a succession of cartridges with a single function of the trigger. "Automatic firearm" also means any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges.

From what I can tell, this is only ever used in a 'specification' that a grand jury can tack on to charges (2941.144). Many people out here seem to think that this definition means that any semi-auto firearm with a magazine of greater than 31rounds is an automatic weapon and subject to NFA rules.

A friend here just pointed out that this 'belief' is B.S.. Yes, if you commit a crime using a AK with a 75rd drum they'll probably tack this specification on (forcing 6 year mandatory sentance).. big deal, you just robbed a bank, killed somebody, whatever.

Anybody know otherwise?

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armoredman
April 27, 2004, 02:58 PM
Anything that will accept a super hi cap mag - AK, AR, any gun that Beta mags are made for, any gun that anyone ever made a super hi cap mag - 1911 shooter, remember the experimental 33 round mag Col Cooper made? There you go. Catch all ban all law.

braindead0
April 27, 2004, 03:02 PM
Yup, the thing is that automatic weapons aren't illegal here. Fact is the only time the term shows up outside of definitions is in that specification section... So if you're a criminal, do it with a .22 and you'll not have to deal with the 6year mandatory ;-)

carpettbaggerr
April 28, 2004, 01:47 AM
Seem to recall OH classifies semiautos with more than 30 round mags as destructive devices. Check the code, cause I'm going to sleep. :cool:

artherd
April 28, 2004, 07:19 AM
'designed'?

So, simply by virtue of existance of (factory!) 33 round mags for my Glock 34, I can go to jail?

Great, they just banned all guns.

braindead0
April 28, 2004, 08:03 AM
Seem to recall OH classifies semiautos with more than 30 round mags as destructive devices. Check the code, cause I'm going to sleep I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The only reference to 'destructive devices' is:

d) Any of the following, except to the extent that the item or device in question is expressly excepted from the definition of "destructive device" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4) and regulations issued under that section:
(i) Any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or similar device;
(ii) Any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any item or device into any item or device described in division (E)(3)(d)(i) of this section and from which an item or device described in that division may be readily assembled.
Note that (E)(3)(d)(i) referenced is in the same paragraph, ie: you can't have the stuff to assemble a bomb, incendiary, grenade, etc. So in addition to this definition, they allow U.S.C. to specifically exempt items.

braindead0
April 28, 2004, 08:05 AM
So, simply by virtue of existance of (factory!) 33 round mags for my Glock 34, I can go to jail?

Great, they just banned all guns.

Like I said, reading the law.. the only law related to automatic weapons in the O.R.C. is a specification that grand juries can tack on to charges. So no, you can have a 500 round wheelbarrow attachment and they can't touch you. Now if you use your G34 in a crime, you would probably get the specification.

In other words, from what I can tell, this can be totally ignored...

ctdonath
April 28, 2004, 10:30 AM
As quoted in the first post, the law explicitly refers to SEMI-auto.

braindead0
April 28, 2004, 10:35 AM
As quoted in the first post, the law explicitly refers to SEMI-auto. O.R.C. simply defines Automatic Weapons as including semi-auto firearms wtih the capability of firing more than 31rounds without reloading.

What needs to be kept in mind is that nowhere in the O.R.C. are automatic weapons illegal. Nor does the definition in the O.R.C. apply in any way to the U.S.C.

From what I can tell this was done to simply allow application of the 'automatic weapon' specification when a grand jury puts together an indictment against someone. Nothing more.

Atticus
April 28, 2004, 01:50 PM
I'm not a lawyer, and I haven't asked a lawyer about this...but I've always understood it to mean that a semi-auto is a semi-auto- unless- you are in posession of both, the firearm AND a magazine/drum with a capacity of more than 30 rounds- then it is legally regarded by Ohio as full auto. This is similar to federal regs in regard to the possession of semi-auto rifles and the fire control parts required to convert them to full auto. Even un-assembled, the Feds consider it a violation. Makes no sense- but I THINK that is the intent of the law. Technically, an AR15 with a Beta C Mag, is considered to be a fully automatic weapon in Ohio.

"Automatic firearm" also means any semi-automatic firearm designed or specially adapted to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading, other than a firearm chambering only .22 caliber short, long, or long-rifle cartridges. "

M1911Owner
April 28, 2004, 02:22 PM
"And "white" is defined to include that color commonly known as "black."" :barf: :banghead:

brownie0486
April 28, 2004, 02:35 PM
I have a 70 rd beta mag for the m1a/m14 that is made from a ww2 german machine gun [ mg42 ] on order. There are very few allowed to be transferred, all are prebans and have been converted before the ban to take a tower for the m14 which also has to be a preban to be lawful.

You can also get these for HK91 types [ the towers ]

The mag is 2100.00 and the towers are 350.00 each, I have one on order and another as a spare. $2500.00 for the pkg. delivered out of Texas.

No class 3 necessary to purchase, but if it's caught on a semi auto post ban, you are going to do some time.

Mine was purchased for the preban bush rifle and will have a Vortex flash hider on it which shortens the rifle another 2 1/2 inches over the standard FS. The rifle is 4 inches shorter than a standard m1a/m14 in bush config, take another 2 1/2 " off for the Vortex, add the M4 stock with adjustable length of pull and the pistol grip which I had custom made and camo-ed and the whole pkg sits at just a few inches over a car-15 shorty but in 308.

It will weigh too much to hold it for long, but the bipod and from prone will keep everyones heads down for a good long time and can be a good suppressive fire weapon if the S ever HTF.

With the custom M-4 stock off the m16 with pistol grip and the shorter rifle it's almost a one of a kind. Nothing illegal about it and it will certainly get a lot of attention when it's put together and on the line.

Instructions, manual of arms, mag key winder are all included with the pkg.

Glad I don't live in Ohio.

Brownie

braindead0
April 28, 2004, 03:41 PM
What people fail to think about is this, pretty simple. Ohio may regard something as "automatic", but they cannot apply that definition to the U.S.C.. No Ohio law (that I can find) makes "automatic" weapons illegal.

Legal definitions only apply to the specific sections of code that they apply to, you cannot take the definitions from one section of code and simply apply them to another.

telewinz
April 28, 2004, 06:10 PM
About 10 years ago (+/-) an Ohio cop told me anything over 30 rounds was iellegal.

braindead0
April 28, 2004, 08:05 PM
About 10 years ago (+/-) an Ohio cop told me anything over 30 rounds was iellegal. If anybody says that, ask them under what section of the code.

I'll repeat it, the only references to automatic firearm in the ORC are the definition (that covers semi-auto firearms with >31 round capacity) and the specification. Specifications only apply to grand jury indictments, ie: there is no law making 'automatic firearms' illegal in Ohio, that I can find. If that was the case, all my Class III buddies wouldn't be here.

As best I can tell this is an urban legend, kinda like guns cause crime.

HBK
April 28, 2004, 08:10 PM
I thought magazines over 30 rounds were guaranteed to jam anyways? IS this true more often than not?

SodiumBenzoate
April 28, 2004, 09:59 PM
I thought magazines over 30 rounds were guaranteed to jam anyways? IS this true more often than not?

From what I gather, that is only true with aftermarket magazines.

Nikon777
November 29, 2008, 03:38 PM
so can I use the factory 33 round mags in my Glock 19 or not? :confused::eek:

evan price
November 29, 2008, 04:06 PM
I don't know where you got that ORC cite.

2921.11 Perjury.
(A) No person, in any official proceeding, shall knowingly make a false statement under oath or affirmation, or knowingly swear or affirm the truth of a false statement previously made, when either statement is material.

(B) A falsification is material, regardless of its admissibility in evidence, if it can affect the course or outcome of the proceeding. It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender mistakenly believed a falsification to be immaterial.

(C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the oath or affirmation was administered or taken in an irregular manner.

(D) Where contradictory statements relating to the same material fact are made by the offender under oath or affirmation and within the period of the statute of limitations for perjury, it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove which statement was false, but only that one or the other was false.

(E) No person shall be convicted of a violation of this section where proof of falsity rests solely upon contradiction by testimony of one person other than the defendant.

(F) Whoever violates this section is guilty of perjury, a felony of the third degree.

Effective Date: 01-01-1974

2921.11 (E) deals with perjury, not what you are saying it does.

You are referencing 2923.11(E) which is the "Weapons Control Definitions" under ORC.

Ohio law states that the weapon needs to be capable of firing more than 31 rounds without reloading. So as long as you do not have a 32-round or larger mag inserted you are fine. There has been great debate over what a 31-round magazine with a round in the chmaber already constitutes- by the law, it makes an automatic weapon.

A deputy sheriff was recently terminated because he was in possession of high-capacity magazines (iirc it was an AK drum).

The law's intent is not to ban guns, it was to limit extremely large capacity magazines. It's a silly law, but one we are working on correcting.

nksmfamjp
November 29, 2008, 04:44 PM
"About 10 years ago (+/-) an Ohio cop told me anything over 30 rounds was iellegal."

That is why he is a cop and not a lawyer.

hksw
November 29, 2008, 05:09 PM
ep, please note that the original post was started 4 years ago. I am sure the OP mis-typed.

braindead0
December 1, 2008, 08:08 AM
Who knows, they may have renumbered. Certainly possible that I mistyped though.

I haven't re-read the law recently, but unless things change this is just a specification that can be tacked on to another crime. AFAIK you cannot be busted for having a semi-auto weapon with 32+ round magazines. If you break certain laws it can be tacked on.

rtroha
December 1, 2008, 11:38 AM
ORC 2923.11 further below says:

(K) “Dangerous ordnance” means any of the following, except as provided in division (L) of this section:

(1) Any automatic or sawed-off firearm, zip-gun, or ballistic knife;

Then see:

2923.17 Unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance - illegally manufacturing or processing explosives.

(A) No person shall knowingly acquire, have, carry, or use any dangerous ordnance.

(D) Whoever violates division (A) of this section is guilty of unlawful possession of dangerous ordnance, a felony of the fifth degree.

braindead0
December 1, 2008, 04:02 PM
Must have been different 4 years ago. I believe that several areas were affected by the new (at the time) CCW law.

I stand corrected.

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