[w4rma]

Florida Town to Use Surveillance Cameras
Florida Town Will Soon Have Cameras and Computers Running Background Checks on Every Car and Driver
The Associated Press

MANALAPAN, Fla. April 27 — One of the nation's wealthiest towns will soon have cameras and computers running background checks on every car and driver that passes through.

Police Chief Clay Walker said cameras will take infrared photos recording a car's tag number, then software will automatically run the numbers through law enforcement databases. A 911 dispatcher is alerted if the car is stolen or is the subject of a "be on the lookout" warning.

Next to the tag number, police will have a picture of the driver, taken with another set of cameras upgraded versions of the standard surveillance cameras already in place.

If there is a robbery, police will be able to comb records to determine who drove through town on a given afternoon or evening.

"Courts have ruled that in a public area, you have no expectation of privacy," said Walker, one of 11 sworn officers who protects Manalapan's 321 residents. Still, Walker says Manalapan's data will be destroyed every three months.

Manalapan's town council authorized $60,000 in security upgrades last week after three burglaries this winter robbed residents of $400,000 in jewelry. The town averages two or three burglaries per year and residents demanded swift response, Town Manager Gregory Dunham said.

The 2000 Census listed Manalapan, about 15 miles south of West Palm Beach, among the nation's richest cities, with two out of every three homes worth more than $500,000.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20040427_985.html

Big brother is expanding his reach.

The previous thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79182) was locked because it veered off topic. Please, remain on topic, as this is an extremely important issue that needs to be dealt with before this type of thing becomes entrenched, imho.

[DorGunR]

1984 is about 20 years behind schedule.:scrutiny:

[standingbear]

"Courts have ruled that in a public area, you have no expectation of privacy," voyeurism anyone?:rolleyes:

[Art Eatman]

w4rma, what would you have the Florida legislature do? I doubt the Manalapan city council would reverse itself. So?

Art

[w4rma]

what would you have the Florida legislature do? I doubt the Manalapan city council would reverse itself. So?Enough public pressure can be appied to the council for it to reverse itself. And if they don't succumb to the threat of being voted out, the folks who live in the county can vote them out and vote in new members of the council (using this issue to drive the election), then it can reverse itself.

The State courts and the Federal courts are most likely another option. I don't know much about Florida state law, but A case can definitely be made that this violates the 4th amendment of the federal Constitution.

Going to the Florida legislature (and the governor) is one option out of quite a few. The Florida legislature with the governor does indeed have the power to override the Manalapan city council on this issue with a law. The governor may be able to do it with an executive order.

The U.S. Congress plus the executive branch can pass a law if the courts fail, and the executive branch may be able to write an executive order until Congress acts.

Standard, this is how the checks and balances of our government works, stuff. There may be other options in addition to those, also.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Enough public pressure can be appied to the council for it to reverse itself. And if they don't succumb to the threat of being voted out, the folks who live in the county can vote them out and vote in new members of the council (using this issue to drive the election), then it can reverse itself.

And what if the people of this little town actually want to place their neighborhood under heavy surveillance?? More and more people believe that this sorta thing is beneficial. I doubt that the government, especially in such a small town, would succeed in pushing through this new initiative if the people weren't behind them.

The government isn't the problem here. The real problem lies in all of the people who won't take responsibility for themselves, and would prefer to be chaperoned all throughout their lives.

P.S. 11 cops for only 321 residents?? That ratio sounds awfully high to me. Perhaps this is an indication of the general mood in Manalapa regarding such matters.

[Gewehr98]

Kinda like those blue-haired snowbirds in West Palm Beach (another high-income town) that couldn't figure out how to punch a ballot card. Bingo cards, yes. :scrutiny:

Let Manalapan try to implement this surveillance. I predict it will develop into nothing. Would be fun to put on a different license plate and cruise down A1A one of these weekends, just to test their system. I'd love to see how it would hold up in court. :D

Two towns in Florida have set up permanent speed traps, Waldo and Lawtey, and derive up to 22% of their police budget from the resulting tickets. Big Brother is everywhere. :eek:

[geekWithA.45]

I will note that while I don't expect privacy in public, I do not expect to be routinely and systematically identified and background checked. The fact that the system is passive and the process doesn't involve a stop and interrogation is immaterial. Checkpoints are a big no no in the US of A.

Unfortunately, this is a distinction the courts are loathe to make, and it is the courts whose job it is to put the kebosh on this sort of thing, and it is the courts who routinely fall down on the job. Presumption of Liberty, anyone?

This city just made my ????list, bigtime.

[GigaBuist]

Oh my. 11:321 ratio of LEO to regular citizen... that's like teacher to student ratios in schools.

[mountainclmbr]

This sounds like a common democrat approach just like all the tax schemes. Maximize state income and non-producing government employees will be rewarded for infringing on MY freedom. You know..... state trumps law-abiding citizen. Freedom of choice only matters on one subject and does not apply for general freedom from government control. The answer is to vote those democrat (communists) out. That will solve the state JBT control problem really quickly. Recall how many "enemies" the communists killed in the last century. They have proven to be ruthless and to use any propaganda to further their own elitist power. I used to be a registered democrat, but now I think they are athiest, communist scum. And I am trying to be really polite.

[carpettbaggerr]

What exactly is your problem here? So the cops see you and know who you are. Haven't you ever lived in a small town, where everyone knows everyone else? And knows exactly when they come and go?

How exactly do you think this is a violation of your 4th amendment rights? How is this any different than hiring lots and lots of cops? There's no right of anonymity.

[w4rma]

mountainclmbr, with all due respect, you haven't a clue about what you are talking about re: Democrats.

[WonderNine]

How exactly do you think this is a violation of your 4th amendment rights?

Ever heard of the term "probable cause"?

If random background checks on you everytime you leave your house doesn't scare the hell out of you in about five different ways, I don't know what to say.

[WonderNine]

mountainclmbr, with all due respect, you haven't a clue about what you are talking about re: Democrats.

He knows exactly what he's talking about, although it's a bit jaded sounding. Hey, I work for state government, I know all about the ever expansion of .gov. 90% of the people I work with are die-hard Democrats.

Results aren't important when you work for the .gov, only creation of more jobs and more bureaucracy.

[w4rma]

He knows exactly what he's talking about, although it's a bit jaded sounding. Hey, I work for state government, I know all about the ever expansion of .gov. 90% of the people I work with are die-hard Democrats.Town of Manalapan:
Mayor: William Benjamin
Commissioner and Vice Mayor Peter Blum
Commissioner and Mayor Pro Tem Anthony Mauro
Commissioner William Quigley
http://www.yrpb.org/Elected_Local.htm
All Republicans.

Like I said, he doesn't know what he's talking about re: Democrats.

[carpettbaggerr]

Probable cause for what? For a cop to look at you? :uhoh: To recognize you -- if this system will even do that much, I'd take this story with a large dose of salt.

What's your problem with cops seeing you in public (if you're not a crook, that is) :scrutiny:

[WonderNine]

Town of Manalapan:
Mayor: William Benjamin
Commissioner and Vice Mayor Peter Blum
Commissioner and Mayor Pro Tem Anthony Mauro
Commissioner William Quigley
http://www.yrpb.org/Elected_Local.htm
All Republicans.

Like I said, he doesn't know what he's talking about re: Democrats.

I'm glad you pointed that out....for THIS crowd.

[Sergeant Bob]

What's the problem with it? It's just the same as if you had a cop following you around 24 hours a day.:rolleyes:

[artherd]

I hope the cameras really are in IR. Glass sheet over the LP.

(Glass is transparant to visible light, but opaque to IR.)

[mtnbkr]

And what if the people of this little town actually want to place their neighborhood under heavy surveillance??

What if that same town wanted to enact strict gun control. Or restrictions on speech or religion?

I suspect the reason many of you aren't up in arms about this is because of the messenger.

Chris

[agricola]

as an aside, does an LEO in the US need "probable cause" before he or she runs your licence plate through the computer?

[HBK]

mountainclmbr summed up Democrats quite nicely. Excellent description.

[lee n. field]

Big brother is expanding his reach.

The previous thread was locked because it veered off topic. Please, remain on topic, as this is an extremely important issue that needs to be dealt with before this type of thing becomes entrenched, imho.


OK, on topic.

They're running all the plates, of every car their camera can see, automatically.

We already know that having an NRA sticker is enough to get you searched some places. How much of a stretch is it to be flagged as a possible weapons violation because you post to High Road?

[sendec]

Thats what plates are there for. I fail to see how the government accessing information it collected, collated and stored regarding plates they issued is a Constitutional violation. Make your own plates, that's always good for entertainment :rolleyes:

The police should reflect the community they serve. If you do not like what this community is doing, do not go there.

As long as everybody is run, or there is some valid form of randomization, there is no legal issue here. We deal with "checkpoints" everyday, especially after what the present Administration has wrought. Before we start blaming Democrats, I want my nailclippers back.

[Daniel T]

If I ever have occasion to drive through Manalapan, I'm wearing a ski mask. Unless it's illegal to wear ski masks now.

[gunsmith]

:cuss:

[R.H. Lee]

I was hoping this thread would sink to the bottom like the tempest in a teapot stone that it is. That ain't gonna happen, so let me tell you why I have no problem with this town in Florida.

First, you have no expectation of privacy in a public place. "Res judicata"-look it up.

Second, you are already under surveillance and being videotaped every time you go into a big store (wallyworld fans please note). Whether they use facial recognition software, who knows? Said store's parking lot is probably also under video surveillance.

Any LEO can at any time run your license plate without your knowledge and/or consent.

This is a LOCAL MATTER. If the people of the town want to pay for this foolishness, how does it threaten the rest of us? Moreover, more video surveillance in high crime areas might very well be a GOOD thing, if posted MAY serve as a deterrent.

The information being surveilled/taped is available to anyone already, including LEOS, who want to stand there and watch cars pass by. It is a NON-ISSUE.

[The Real Hawkeye]

Two towns in Florida have set up permanent speed traps, Waldo and Lawtey, and derive up to 22% of their police budget from the resulting tickets. Big Brother is everywhere.I just drove through both of those towns last week. It's amazing, because the speed limit is 65, and then all the sudden it's 45, and if you don't slow down fast enough, you get a ticket. Fortunately, someone pays for billboards on either side of the speed traps warning people in huge letters that the speed traps are coming up.

[The Real Hawkeye]

As for the issue at hand, I think this idea violates the spirit of the 4th Amendment in that we are supposed to be secure in our persons and effects from unreasonable searches, i.e., from searches which do not meet the Constitutional requirement for a warrent. This is not just a case of casually eyeballing people as they pass, it is functionally the same as requireing everyone to show their papers as they pass through the city. We don't really want to live in that kind of society, do we? "You, old man, your papers," demanded the man in the black uniform. :uhoh:

[feedthehogs]

I've known this Walker since he was a Lt. at the NPB police dept.
My company also does business in Manalapan.
When this boob got the nod for head cheese there, his head exploded into the ego maniacle range.
He played on the fears of the rich residents to create a soverign nation there.

They did something similar in Palm Beach years ago with cameras and making everyone who did business there get a photo pass and background check. It eventually went away after lawsuits abounded, which will probably happen again.

I'm sure someone in the department will be selling info on you know who went to you know who's house while his wife was out of town.

Well it don't work. Crime rates don't decline.

[carpettbaggerr]

If I ever have occasion to drive through Manalapan, I'm wearing a ski mask. Unless it's illegal to wear ski masks now.
Maybe not illegal, but I'm absolutely sure that wearing a ski mask in Florida will provide probable cause to stop and question you. :scrutiny:

[Destructo6]

This is casting an enormous net, catching law abiding citizens within, even while there is no crime being investigated.

That's a presumption of guilt and is wrong.

[David Scott]

IMHO, the best argument against this is to keep the cost/benefit ratio in front of the voters. That system is gonna kiss a million frogs before it finds a prince. They'd get more real utility out of putting the cash into domestic violence shelters, or substance abuse rehabs, or updating fire department equipment.