7.62X54R prices through the roof; why?


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peacebutready
January 30, 2016, 01:59 PM
Ah, prices for 7.62X54R ammo went through the roof. I wish I got when the gettin' was good.

Did importation from Russia end?

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xxjumbojimboxx
January 30, 2016, 02:12 PM
I mean, everyone's been saying it was going to happen for YEARS now... I'm not sure if it was importation ending from Russia, or simply the the surplus ran out... Being surplus there's only so much...

Jackal
January 30, 2016, 02:18 PM
With the price of corrosive surplus within 10 cents of new production ammo, surplus should be a hard sell.

Speedo66
January 30, 2016, 07:05 PM
Aside form a few rifles, some oddball Winchester lever actions, etc., how many rifles here ever used that cartridge?

Now they bring in who knows how many millions of cheap Mosins and people are surprised ammo is expensive or hard to find?

I'm sure stockpiling also has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

Swampman
January 30, 2016, 09:31 PM
Because some people will pay the prices asked...
Being surplus there's only so much...
Except that since its still in front line use all over the world, that doesn't really apply.

American shooters have shown over the last few years that they're willing to pay ridiculously high prices for ammunition.

Why would a "for profit" company charge less than what buyers are willing to pay?

Cooldill
January 31, 2016, 01:20 AM
It's the war in the Ukraine that's causing it.

Funny that .308 is now a dime a round cheaper than 7.62x54mmR.

justin22885
January 31, 2016, 02:22 AM
With the price of corrosive surplus within 10 cents of new production ammo, surplus should be a hard sell.
thats a greater difference than what ive been finding, ive been seeing brass cased ZQI within a few cents per round of 7.62x54R surplus.. i do believe this will kill mosin nagant "value", not everyone but a considerable amount of people who were interested in this rifle was interested due to the low cost of the ammunition that could match .308 ballistics.. i certainly wont be buying anymore ammo for mine

nathan
January 31, 2016, 03:07 AM
Reversal of events are affecting the supply and demand.

AZAndy
January 31, 2016, 06:23 AM
I didn't know that things had gone that way, since I rarely shoot my Mosins. Had a look at J&G, who used to carry "spam cans" of surplus, and all they have now is new manufacture. Yet another time I didn't get while the gettin' was good...

highpower
January 31, 2016, 08:48 AM
7.62X54r is just suffering the same fate as all surplus ammo has in the past. It has been cheap for so long that I think that there has developed a mindset that it would always be cheap.

.303 British, 8mm, .30-06 and .308 are just a few that I have watched in my lifetime go from inexpensive to pricey and that is not to mention the 7.5 Swiss and 6.5X55 Swedish ammo too. I have just one crate of 7.61X54r left that I am now saving for posterity.

The answer is, of course to reload. Quite frankly, the Russian and Ukrainian ammo was basically crap for accuracy with the exception of a few lots of sniper ammo. I now reload for my PSL and contrary to the reports that they are not all that accurate, I have been able to cut my groups in half or less using my handloads.

dragon813gt
January 31, 2016, 08:52 AM
Saw this coming which is why I'm set up to reload for it. Sucked having to buy molds that drop a .316 bullet instead of using the plethora of 30 cal molds I already had. But free lead, primers bought years ago and a few grains of Bullseye make for very very cheap rounds :)

peacebutready
January 31, 2016, 01:58 PM
It's the war in the Ukraine that's causing it.

Hmmm...I'm surprised this didn't cause prices to go up sooner. I haven't read anything about Ukraine recently. I'll have to.

i do believe this will kill mosin nagant "value"

Anyone have any recommendations how long to wait before buying a Mosin or two in order to get them for cheap?

xxjumbojimboxx
January 31, 2016, 02:41 PM
Because some people will pay the prices asked...

Except that since its still in front line use all over the world, that doesn't really apply.

American shooters have shown over the last few years that they're willing to pay ridiculously high prices for ammunition.

Why would a "for profit" company charge less than what buyers are willing to pay?
Swampman, The ammo were talking about IS in finite supply. The czech, bulgarian, russian, and other x54r ammo that has tradtionally sold for about 90 bucks a can is indeed dwindling. Sure, theres new stuff being made. But thats not the MILSURP stuff were talking about. The new stuff would be far more expensive.

justin22885
January 31, 2016, 03:38 PM
how many of those countries still use x54r? thought most of them went .308 for the bigger stuff

Steel Horse Rider
January 31, 2016, 04:58 PM
If people understood economics these types of questions wouldn't be posted.......

Scooter22
January 31, 2016, 10:11 PM
Well on the global picture there are a lot of "wars" and conflicts that are using guns in this and 7.62x39 so it leaves less surplus for us fun shooters.

justin22885
February 1, 2016, 01:17 PM
at any rate, this is why its important NOT to rely on rifles that use ammunition that rely on surplus ammunition sources that could be shut off (by some stupid regulations) or simply dry up unless you have the funds to buy 10k+ rounds of it while its cheap

x54R is not a big loss, unreloadable, steel cased, rimmed, and generally inaccurate forcing you to use either a mosin (not particularly accurate and crap ergos) or some overpriced PSL you cant find mags for in order to fire it.. sure it was cheap, and sure it had the muzzle energy of a .308, but it really wasnt worth much more than that anyway

fireman 9731
February 1, 2016, 01:34 PM
As the surplus dries up, Wolf, Tula, and the Bears, will increase production and prices will come down some for new production ammo.

There are still a lot of spam cans out there in people's basements and garages though.

stoky
February 1, 2016, 01:43 PM
If people understood economics these types of questions wouldn't be posted.......
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it, The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics."
==Thomas Paine

justin22885
February 1, 2016, 01:43 PM
wolf and tula at full production wont be any cheaper than .308 and theres absolutely zero reason to go woth x54R over 308, its inferior in every aspect

Jackal
February 1, 2016, 02:42 PM
wolf and tula at full production wont be any cheaper than .308 and theres absolutely zero reason to go woth x54R over 308, its inferior in every aspect
.308 is inferior in at least 1 aspect... it doesnt function in my Finnish Mosin's.:cool:

fireman 9731
February 1, 2016, 03:51 PM
theres absolutely zero reason to go woth x54R over 308, its inferior in every aspect

Except I already have a half dozen rifles chambered in x54, I enjoy them, and they don't get inferiority complexes from the other guns in the safe.

Every time somebody pulls the trigger, it isn't a contest to see who is doing it in the absolute, most perfect, efficient, modern, hip, way to send a bullet down range.

There are millions of guns in the world chambered in x54R, there will always be reasonably priced ammo for them, maybe just not at rock bottom prices like in the past.

If cheap ammo was the ONLY reason somebody bought a Mosin, then they bought it for the wrong reason. If they want to part ways with it because ammo prices went up a little, then there will be lines of people ready to take it off their hands for them.

minutemen1776
February 2, 2016, 04:05 PM
Low pricing and historical interest drew me to the Mosin-Nagant, but mediocre performance (even with the few Finn rifles I owned) drove me away. I cashed out all my Mosin-Nagant rifles and ammo a while ago. The uptick in ammo pricing makes me glad that I did so.

MaterDei
February 2, 2016, 04:30 PM
Anyone have any recommendations how long to wait before buying a Mosin or two in order to get them for cheap?

I would argue that they can no longer be gotten for cheap. They will likely not be going down in price ever again so now is as cheap as you will find them.

I currently own 4 Mosins and payed less than $100 for each less than 10 years ago. Not sure what they are selling for currently but probably at least double that.

I have a lifetime supply of spam can ammo at my current rate of consumption. My boys like shooting them a lot though so I may need to reload at some point. I don't remember what the spam cans cost.

Cooldill
February 2, 2016, 09:25 PM
Low pricing and historical interest drew me to the Mosin-Nagant, but mediocre performance (even with the few Finn rifles I owned) drove me away. I cashed out all my Mosin-Nagant rifles and ammo a while ago. The uptick in ammo pricing makes me glad that I did so.
That's baloney.

The Finn M39 is perhaps the greatest combat rifle ever made. It is TREMENDOUSLY superior in every way to the standard Russian M91/30.

The Finn M39s are perhaps the most accurate general-issue non sniper battle rifle ever made. They are flawlessly reliable, even in the most extreme conditions, and they fixed all of the Russian issues to produce a stellar rifle. It is one of the main reasons why Finland kept their independence.

PabloJ
February 2, 2016, 09:34 PM
That's baloney.

The Finn M39 is perhaps the greatest combat rifle ever made. It is TREMENDOUSLY superior in every way to the standard Russian M91/30.

The Finn M39s are perhaps the most accurate general-issue non sniper battle rifle ever made. They are flawlessly reliable, even in the most extreme conditions, and they fixed all of the Russian issues to produce a stellar rifle. It is one of the main reasons why Finland kept their independence.
No. The reason Finland kept its independence was because they pulled out of alliance with Germany at the right time and did not offend Josef Stalin.
What was cheap or cheaply brought in as surplus is gone and there is zero incentive to sell newer stuff for peanuts when higher prices can be asked. The same holds for 9x18 ammo.

peacebutready
February 2, 2016, 11:20 PM
I currently own 4 Mosins and payed less than $100 for each less than 10 years ago. Not sure what they are selling for currently but probably at least double that.

I think SOG has them for $185 plus shipping.

http://www.southernohiogun.com/longguns/c-r-longguns/russian-mn91-30-762x54.html

Swampman
February 3, 2016, 01:49 AM
Sure, theres new stuff being made. But thats not the MILSURP stuff were talking about. The new stuff would be far more expensive.
No country has ever manufactured "milsurp" ammunition on purpose.
They decide to sell the ammunition when they have more than they need or when it's no longer considered good enough (for whatever reason) to be kept as war stocks.

30-06, 7.5x55, 6.5x55 and .303 are no longer being actively produced as military ammunition, so the remaining supplies of military surplus ammunition in those calibers IS finite.

On the other hand, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R ARE being actively produced as military ammunition, so the remaining supplies of military surplus ammunition in those calibers IS NOT limited to what's already been produced.

I'm not saying 7.62x54R will ever be as cheap as it once was (nothing ever is), but over time surplus stocks will be sold off by various countries and that will tend to keep prices lower (particularly after two of the largest producers/users stop shooting it all up at each other).

I cashed out all my Mosin-Nagant rifles and ammo a while ago. The uptick in ammo pricing makes me glad that I did so.
Do you mind me asking why you're glad you sold your ammo before the price rose so dramatically?

theres absolutely zero reason to go woth x54R over 308, its inferior in every aspect
What about the fact that 7.62x54R is more powerful and capable of just as good practical accuracy as the 7.62x51?
What about the Finns still using the caliber for both sniper and DMR weapons?

It's not like the Finns are backward rubes where sniping is concerned, they developed and use the TRG 42 in .338 Lapua for sniping. They also make theTRG 22 in 7.62x51 and happily sell them all over the world, but they don't use the rifle or cartridge for their own snipers and DM's.

minutemen1776
February 3, 2016, 12:14 PM
Cooldill, you have no basis to judge my own experience. I wanted to like the Mosin-Nagant. I've owned a half dozen. The reputation of the Finn rifles led me to buy an M39, but it performed no better or worse than my Russian rifles. Thinking I'd gotten a dud, I bought another M39. It, too, was nothing special. It's admittedly a small sample size, but my experience left me unimpressed. The real baloney is the assertion that Finland retained its independence because of its small arms. There are many factors that contributed there, and individual rifles played just a small role.

justin22885
February 3, 2016, 04:20 PM
x54r ammo prices will likely never go back down again, if you failed to stockpile 10k rounds or so of it when it was so cheap, you missed out and its too late.. find a better rifle and a better caliber to get behind

Swampman
February 3, 2016, 10:13 PM
x54r ammo prices will likely never go back down again, if you failed to stockpile 10k rounds or so of it when it was so cheap, you missed out and its too late.. find a better rifle and a better caliber to get behind
Like a chintzy AK clone in .223? :rolleyes:

I'm betting that you've never fired a good M/28-30 Finn loaded with decent ammunition.
theres absolutely zero reason to go woth x54R over 308, its inferior in every aspect
Can you please explain exactly what aspects of 7.62x54R make it so inferior to .308?

I've got multiple rifles in both calibers, and other than having easier to find reloadable brass and fitting better in 10+ round magazines, I can't see that .308 as a cartridge has any real advantages over 7.62x54R.

7.62x54R is capable of significantly higher velocities and is just as accurate in my experience, assuming equivalent rifles.

Bobson
February 3, 2016, 10:17 PM
Thanks for the heads up. Bought a few boxes of ammo when I got a Mosin years ago. Sold the rifle but ammo's been sitting around.

Guess I'll uh... dispose of it properly. I could find a way to use the uh... space.

IROCZ
February 5, 2016, 07:30 PM
I got three Mosins and a lifetime supply of ammo in cans. The only one that is accurate is my Mosin sniper, and it won't shoot spam can ammo worth a hoot.

meanmrmustard
February 6, 2016, 04:46 AM
I'm confused.

This must be a regional issue, as I'm getting 54r at Walmart, LGS, Rural King, so it isn't a supply/demand issue here as its still plentiful and cheap.

justin22885
February 6, 2016, 06:37 AM
Like a chintzy AK clone in .223? :rolleyes:

I'm betting that you've never fired a good M/28-30 Finn loaded with decent ammunition.

Can you please explain exactly what aspects of 7.62x54R make it so inferior to .308?

I've got multiple rifles in both calibers, and other than having easier to find reloadable brass and fitting better in 10+ round magazines, I can't see that .308 as a cartridge has any real advantages over 7.62x54R.

7.62x54R is capable of significantly higher velocities and is just as accurate in my experience, assuming equivalent rifles.
quite a few things make 308 superior to 7.62x54, lets start off with ballistics, 308 can achieve higher velocities with the same bullet weight out of shorter barrel lengths, so theres a bit of a ballistics advantage, then theres the commonality of 308, you can find it anywhere, ease of reloading is another, 308 brass is common and can be made from all sorts of different sources of 12mm brass, 7.62x54R is primarily steel cased and you wont make it from anything else... .308 is also a short action cartridge found in all sorts of bolt actions and semi automatics, x54R is confined to a few eastern block rifles.. then lastly the cost, used to be x54 was significantly cheaper, now theyre about the same

so tell me what the 7.62x54R offers that the .308 doesnt do better?.. frankly i couldnt care less about how fantastic people believe finn mosins are, i'll stick with a mauser which is even better yet

hamp sandwich
February 6, 2016, 07:34 AM
The $90 spam can could never last.. We ALL knew that. The cheap commercial ammo is still just as cheap as the equivalent in 308 (comparing steel case to steel case). The remaining spam cans just caught up with commercial prices. Personally, I think the commercial stuff is a better deal now.

saturno_v
February 7, 2016, 02:47 AM
quite a few things make 308 superior to 7.62x54, lets start off with ballistics


The 7,6x54R is ballistically superior to the 308 Win...slightly but it is more powerful....period, not disputable. Accuracy is dependent on the platform, there are 54R rifles that are impressively accurate.

The 308 Win is just generally more practical for us American shooters...but that is a different story and it has nothing to do with "inferiority".

PabloJ
February 7, 2016, 04:08 AM
The only thing x54R I would be entertaining buying would be IZH SxS rifle in 9.3x54R provided ammo was available as well.

Swampman
February 7, 2016, 05:49 AM
@ meanmrmustard
The thread has mainly been about how the cheap corrosive military surplus has either dried up or gotten ridiculously expensive. I don't think anyone's having problems finding recent production commercial 7.62x54R.

quite a few things make 308 superior to 7.62x54, lets start off with ballistics, 308 can achieve higher velocities with the same bullet weight out of shorter barrel lengths, so theres a bit of a ballistics advantage, then theres the commonality of 308, you can find it anywhere, ease of reloading is another, 308 brass is common and can be made from all sorts of different sources of 12mm brass, 7.62x54R is primarily steel cased and you wont make it from anything else... .308 is also a short action cartridge found in all sorts of bolt actions and semi automatics, x54R is confined to a few eastern block rifles.. then lastly the cost, used to be x54 was significantly cheaper, now theyre about the same

so tell me what the 7.62x54R offers that the .308 doesnt do better?.. frankly i couldnt care less about how fantastic people believe finn mosins are, i'll stick with a mauser which is even better yet
Unfortunately, I don't have your vast experience with reloading .308 and 7.62 x54R in various barrel lengths, so I'll just have to go with the information listed on the Hodgdon reloading data site. Fortunately all of their data in both .308 and 7.62x54R was developed in 24 inch barrels.

In every bullet weight tested (with the single exception of 200 grain :confused:), the 7.62x54R turned in higher velocities when comparing the fastest loads listed for each caliber.

Copper units of pressure aren't directly comparable to pounds per square inch, but anyone possessing a basic familiarity with internal ballistics would probably agree the '54R loads are lower pressure than the .308 loads.

All data below is for the highest velocity load listed for each bullet weight with "any powder" selected (includes only Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders).
_________________________

308, 110 gr 24" = 3,358 fps. @53,900 PSI

7.62x54R, 110 gr 24"= 3,376 fps @ 42,300 CUP
_________________________

308, 125 gr 24" = 3,194 fps @ 58,100 PSI

7.62x54R, 125 gr 24"= 3,236 fps @ 45,700 CUP
_________________________

308, 150 gr 24" = 2974 fps @ 57,000 psi

7.62x54R, 150 gr 24"= 3,027 fps @ 46,300 CUP
_________________________

308, 180 gr 24" = 2,665 fps @ 57,900 PSI

7.62x54R, 180 gr 24" = 2,692 fps @ 44,700 CUP
_________________________

308, 200 gr 24" = 2,582 fps @ 60,600 PSI
(CFE 223)

7.62x54R, 200 gr 24" = 2,529 fps @ 46,500 CUP

As usual, the actual data is pretty much in total opposition to the "facts" you've posted. Contrary to your claims that the .308 posts higher velocities out of shorter barrel lengths, Hodgdon data shows the .308 with LOWER velocities for the SAME barrel lengths.

Have you ever considered using "facts" that you didn't make up yourself?

It did surprise me to see the .308 beating the '54R with the 200 grain bullets, I would have sworn the larger case would show greater superiority the heavier the bullets got.

I may have to take a closer look at CFE 223 powder, despite its name, it seems to put out some serious velocities in heavy bullet .308 loads.

I wonder if the results for 200 grain bullets might have been different if Hodgdon posted data for that (or any of its newer powders) in '54R?

As for the .308 being "easier" to load? I already admitted that reloadable .308 brass is much easier to find than '54R, but reloadable Privi Partizan brass is easy to find, affordable and of very good quality, so that's pretty much a non-issue.

As far as actual ease of resizing goes, the '54R requires much less effort, probably due to the generous case taper.

As for having more ammo, rifles and actions available in the .308 than the '54R?

Pretty much anyone that's ever seen a gun and been allowed to cross the street without holding someone else's hand already knows that, let alone anyone who's read this far into a thread titled: "7.62X54R prices through the roof; why?"

I'm guessing they already know they can't get a Weatherby Mk V or M-forgery in 7.62x54R. :D

Truth is, I think 7.62x51/.308 is a better round than 7.62x54R. The case for its superiority is pretty easy to argue and it can be done logically and truthfully, with no need for made up facts and massive piles of BS.

There's plenty of room on THR for differences of opinion. That's what makes the site interesting and helps people learn. There's just no point in stating things like "308 can achieve higher velocities with the same bullet weight out of shorter barrel lengths"; when anyone who looks at real data can see that it isn't true.

The majority of members here can undoubtedly spot the BS for what it is, but most of the time there's more non-members online. A lot of them probably got here through an honest search for information, why not try to give it to them without all the lies?

justin22885
February 7, 2016, 06:25 AM
The 7,6x54R is ballistically superior to the 308 Win...slightly but it is more powerful....period, not disputable. Accuracy is dependent on the platform, there are 54R rifles that are impressively accurate.

The 308 Win is just generally more practical for us American shooters...but that is a different story and it has nothing to do with "inferiority".
that "slight" advantage in power for the 7.62x54R goes away pretty quick when you realize x54R velocities are tested with a 28" barrel while 308 is tested with a 24, it closes that slight gap in an equal test

justin22885
February 7, 2016, 06:38 AM
swampman, those hodgdon loads, even max loads are well below the saami max pressure for .308, i reload for both 7.62x54R for my mosin and .308 for a variety of .308 rifles ive had over the last few years.. my mosin is an M38 with 20" barrel, my current and only remaining .308 rifle is a MAS 49/56 also with a 20 inch barrel.. the MAS also has a .311 bore so i share bullets between the two and ive found both cartridges can take about the same powder charge while remaining at safe pressures

because the .308 case is smaller the same charge equates to higher initial pressures and better velocities and the 308 pulls ahead even more as barrels get shorter due to its higher pressure capabilities.. muzzle velocity for the two are well within eachothers margin of error, there truly is no noticeable difference in velocities using the same bullets, same powders, same barrel lengths, and keeping it under max pressure

i honestly cant think of a more variable free comparison one could do than this since even the bullets used are the same and given the two cartridges i will stick with the smaller, lighter, cheaper, rimless option every time as x54 reloadable brass is not cheap

saturno_v
February 7, 2016, 01:29 PM
that "slight" advantage in power for the 7.62x54R goes away pretty quick when you realize x54R velocities are tested with a 28" barrel while 308 is tested with a 24, it closes that slight gap in an equal test


No....according to more than one reloading manual reported velocities are from 24" barrel for both (Hodgdon reloading center for example) and the gap is still there and it does increase with heavier bullets.


For example, about 100 fps gap in 150 gr. bullets (maximum loads), just checked (24" barrels for both)

When it comes to reloads, the 54R fall more or less between the 308 and the 30-06 in power.

Mosin Bubba
February 7, 2016, 01:49 PM
I've been very happy to see $8 or $9 boxes of Wolf 7.62x54R - maybe I just never noticed them before, but it seems like they just started popping up recently. I think this is a sustainable source for cheap Mosin ammo - it's more than the spam cans used to be, but it is non corrosive and higher quality ammo. And besides, a box for a Mosin is a full day of shooting it IMO. $8 is good enough for that.

Cooldill
February 7, 2016, 02:00 PM
I've been very happy to see $8 or $9 boxes of Wolf 7.62x54R - maybe I just never noticed them before, but it seems like they just started popping up recently. I think this is a sustainable source for cheap Mosin ammo - it's more than the spam cans used to be, but it is non corrosive and higher quality ammo. And besides, a box for a Mosin is a full day of shooting it IMO. $8 is good enough for that.
It's not so good of a price when comparatively it was $4-5 a box, and less so now that .308 is less expensive than 7.62x54mmR.

meanmrmustard
February 8, 2016, 03:33 AM
@ meanmrmustard
The thread has mainly been about how the cheap corrosive military surplus has either dried up or gotten ridiculously expensive. I don't think anyone's having problems finding recent production commercial 7.62x54R.


Unfortunately, I don't have your vast experience with reloading .308 and 7.62 x54R in various barrel lengths, so I'll just have to go with the information listed on the Hodgdon reloading data site. Fortunately all of their data in both .308 and 7.62x54R was developed in 24 inch barrels.

In every bullet weight tested (with the single exception of 200 grain :confused:), the 7.62x54R turned in higher velocities when comparing the fastest loads listed for each caliber.

Copper units of pressure aren't directly comparable to pounds per square inch, but anyone possessing a basic familiarity with internal ballistics would probably agree the '54R loads are lower pressure than the .308 loads.

All data below is for the highest velocity load listed for each bullet weight with "any powder" selected (includes only Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders).
_________________________

308, 110 gr 24" = 3,358 fps. @53,900 PSI

7.62x54R, 110 gr 24"= 3,376 fps @ 42,300 CUP
_________________________

308, 125 gr 24" = 3,194 fps @ 58,100 PSI

7.62x54R, 125 gr 24"= 3,236 fps @ 45,700 CUP
_________________________

308, 150 gr 24" = 2974 fps @ 57,000 psi

7.62x54R, 150 gr 24"= 3,027 fps @ 46,300 CUP
_________________________

308, 180 gr 24" = 2,665 fps @ 57,900 PSI

7.62x54R, 180 gr 24" = 2,692 fps @ 44,700 CUP
_________________________

308, 200 gr 24" = 2,582 fps @ 60,600 PSI
(CFE 223)

7.62x54R, 200 gr 24" = 2,529 fps @ 46,500 CUP

As usual, the actual data is pretty much in total opposition to the "facts" you've posted. Contrary to your claims that the .308 posts higher velocities out of shorter barrel lengths, Hodgdon data shows the .308 with LOWER velocities for the SAME barrel lengths.

Have you ever considered using "facts" that you didn't make up yourself?

It did surprise me to see the .308 beating the '54R with the 200 grain bullets, I would have sworn the larger case would show greater superiority the heavier the bullets got.

I may have to take a closer look at CFE 223 powder, despite its name, it seems to put out some serious velocities in heavy bullet .308 loads.

I wonder if the results for 200 grain bullets might have been different if Hodgdon posted data for that (or any of its newer powders) in '54R?

As for the .308 being "easier" to load? I already admitted that reloadable .308 brass is much easier to find than '54R, but reloadable Privi Partizan brass is easy to find, affordable and of very good quality, so that's pretty much a non-issue.

As far as actual ease of resizing goes, the '54R requires much less effort, probably due to the generous case taper.

As for having more ammo, rifles and actions available in the .308 than the '54R?

Pretty much anyone that's ever seen a gun and been allowed to cross the street without holding someone else's hand already knows that, let alone anyone who's read this far into a thread titled: "7.62X54R prices through the roof; why?"

I'm guessing they already know they can't get a Weatherby Mk V or M-forgery in 7.62x54R. :D

Truth is, I think 7.62x51/.308 is a better round than 7.62x54R. The case for its superiority is pretty easy to argue and it can be done logically and truthfully, with no need for made up facts and massive piles of BS.

There's plenty of room on THR for differences of opinion. That's what makes the site interesting and helps people learn. There's just no point in stating things like "308 can achieve higher velocities with the same bullet weight out of shorter barrel lengths"; when anyone who looks at real data can see that it isn't true.

The majority of members here can undoubtedly spot the BS for what it is, but most of the time there's more non-members online. A lot of them probably got here through an honest search for information, why not try to give it to them without all the lies?
I'm not having either issue. I chalk it up to a lack of interest in that cartridge in my region, but I can get yellow tip stuff for 3.99 for 20, and that ain't bad. As for internet spam can purchasing, that's a different colored horse. Tula at Walmart was just icing on the cake, as I am a fan of "WalMart Calibers", 54R being one of them. I'm aware of the threads subject, I'm merely reiterating that ammo shortage is generally regional.

peacebutready
February 8, 2016, 12:09 PM
but I can get yellow tip stuff for 3.99 for 20, and that ain't bad. As for internet spam can purchasing, that's a different colored horse.

Where can a person get 20 for 3.99?

meanmrmustard
February 8, 2016, 08:34 PM
Where can a person get 20 for 3.99?
My LGS, 2 miles away. I will not disclose name or location. PM for that info. Seeing as you are in the South, I doubt you'll drive that far for ammo!

peacebutready
February 9, 2016, 11:33 AM
My LGS, 2 miles away. I will not disclose name or location. PM for that info. Seeing as you are in the South, I doubt you'll drive that far for ammo!

Thank you for the offer. Yes, it's kind of far. :) It's good to know it's available, though.

peacebutready
February 9, 2016, 11:44 AM
I'm not sure if it was importation ending from Russia

That would explain it best. Did our guv put an end to surplus 54R ammo coming into the country?


Tula at Walmart was just icing on the cake, as I am a fan of "WalMart Calibers", 54R being one of them.

Recall how much 54R ammo is from that department store?

meanmrmustard
February 9, 2016, 04:07 PM
That would explain it best. Did our guv put an end to surplus 54R ammo coming into the country?




Recall how much 54R ammo is from that department store?
$7.67

justin22885
February 9, 2016, 05:56 PM
No....according to more than one reloading manual reported velocities are from 24" barrel for both (Hodgdon reloading center for example) and the gap is still there and it does increase with heavier bullets.


For example, about 100 fps gap in 150 gr. bullets (maximum loads), just checked (24" barrels for both)

When it comes to reloads, the 54R fall more or less between the 308 and the 30-06 in power.
im going to trust my experience in loading 7.62x54R and .308 both with the same .311 bullets, powder, and out of 20" barrels more so than some lawyer-approved reloading manual

peacebutready
February 10, 2016, 09:41 PM
@mean: Thanks.

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