The study on the benefits of teaching your children to shoot?


May 3, 2004, 12:36 PM
Hi folks,

Apparently we were a bit too honest in our adoption home study questionnaire, admitting to owning and carrying firearms and planning to teach our adopted son to shoot from a young age, and it appears to have rattled them a bit.

I have done some web searches, but can't seem to track down the study that showed the benefits of shooting with your kids - 0% misuse of guns vs. some percentage for kids who didn't learn about guns from their parents.

If anyone has a copy of it or a web page pointer, I'd appreciate if you could send it to me or post it here. Thanks!

-Michael Pelletier.

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May 3, 2004, 12:59 PM
It's really sad that our heritage has come to this. Every day that goes by I am more certain that we are doomed as a society. I do not know where to find what you are looking for but good luck, you'll need it.


May 3, 2004, 12:59 PM

there is a link to the overall study at the bottom.


May 3, 2004, 01:19 PM
I'm printing a copy for my paper adoption file, and saved the PDF file in my electronic folder.

Thanks again!

Sam Adams
May 3, 2004, 02:07 PM
This is not exactly on point, but I know that the Army found out during the world wars that those soldiers who grew up in rural areas (i.e. those who presumably knew how to shoot from the time that they were kids, because they HAD to), had much higher survival rates. I'd say that this was a distinct benefit to teaching your kid to shoot.

If you'd like, I'll contact a friend of mine in NH - he may know (or be able to find out) if it is even permissible for an adoption agency to ask questions like this and/or to base their decisions on these matters.

May 3, 2004, 02:16 PM
Sam, yes, I'd be curious about that.

Please don't name names, though, I'm still, as far as I know, on good terms with the agency, and awaiting some more details from them, and I'm holding out the hope that they're amenable to the voice of reason.

May 3, 2004, 02:24 PM
It's sad beyond belief that so much stigma is attached to the simple admission that yeah ... ''I have guns''.:(

From that seems to come being ostracized by some .... almost as if the individual is guilty of something genuinely bad, like pedophilia or something!!

What a state of affairs we have sometimes.

IMO, teaching kids to shoot is as important as any aspect of education ... it's part of (should be) growing up.

Good luck Michael ...... as if you didn't already have enough, on your over-full plate!

Sam Adams
May 3, 2004, 02:47 PM
I'll inquire. Don't worry about naming names, as neither I nor my friend are that foolish or indiscrete. I will merely check with him about the law. Hopefully, he'll find something that outlaws the practice of such stupidity. I'll let you know.

May 3, 2004, 05:25 PM
Mvpel, sorry to hear you're having that trouble. My wife and went through this about a year ago, but when the question of guns came up, they only wanted to see that they were properly secured. I went and bought a bunch of gunlocks and put them on. That, and keeping them in a locked cabinet, seemed to satisfy the social worker and we never had a problem with it after that.
We now have a beautiful baby boy that just turned nine months old. We got him when he was five days old. Hang in there, grit your teeth and play along with them. It's worth it.

May 3, 2004, 05:31 PM
I'm picking up a pair of GunVault safes on Thursday, and shopping for a rifle safe. Thinking about getting the model that fits between the studs, and sticking it inside the bedroom closet.

May 3, 2004, 05:35 PM
That should help set them at ease. If they see that access is denied to little hands, there shouldn't be a problem. They also checked to see that we had baby-proofed every thing from electrical outlets to kitchen knives. Best of luck to you.

May 3, 2004, 10:19 PM
From what little they've told me, I got the impression they were flabbergasted that we said that the guns would be kept out of the reach of the kid except under adult supervision, and also that I have a CCW and carry routinely.

This moved them to call the NH DCYF for a consult, apparently. We waited all last week for the social worker we were assigned to get back from vacation, and now everyone's bumping us back to the supervisor in the main office who's on vacation until Wednesday. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of other paperwork we need to do, but I was just hoping to be further along by now considering we sent in the last of the first batch of paperwork the first week of April.

BTW, what did you do to handle the electrical outlets? Those little plastic plugs are nearly adult-proof, I've found, let alone kid-proof.

May 3, 2004, 10:28 PM

Don't bother with the plugs, except for outlets you don't intend to use.

Get the swivel outlet covers instead, like the one below:

pax, veteran of five baby boys ...

You can learn many things from children. how much patience you have, for instance. -- Franklin P. Jones

May 3, 2004, 11:45 PM
I've never seen those before, looks like a good device. I really need them now that he's crawling! Where did you get them?

Wow! Five! I thought I had it rough with three! You should qualify for sainthood.

buy guns
May 3, 2004, 11:59 PM
mvpel, i couldnt imagine having to deal with this on top of your other LEO problem. good luck with everything.

May 4, 2004, 01:44 AM

Found 'em ... oh, Toys 'R Us, I think. Might've been some baby store somewhere. Brand name I remember as Safety 1st. Should be able to find it on the web, as I grabbed the pic off some random site somewhere. ;)


Parents are often so busy with the physical rearing of children that they miss the glory of parenthood, just as the grandeur of the trees is lost when raking leaves. -- Marcelene Cox

May 4, 2004, 04:48 AM
I was adopted in the 50's by a loving mother and father. My father was a deer hunter and bought me a Winchester 94 when I was 11. Before that I was shooting .22's and a .410 shotgun. Went into the Navy at 17 and retired at 37. Now carry a badge. Guess this wasn't a bad life growing up with the "dreaded gun"....

May 4, 2004, 05:16 AM
Kids benefit from being responsible.
They "earn" trust from parents, by proving they can and do observe 4 rules.

It is said one cannot teach what they do not know. I wish you luck on adoption - we need more kids that are responsible, and trustyworthy. These kids grow up and pass the responsible and trustworthy genes onto to their kids.

Obvious we have some folks in society missing these important genes.

I think I'd turn on the TV for about 5 minutes and allow adoption agency to view- probably prove your point.

I assure you if a representative went to the range with you - it would be real obvious. Especially during a kids teaching clinic, picnic, clean up day...etc.

May 4, 2004, 10:29 AM
Thanx, Pax. I'll locate some. :)

Henry Bowman
May 4, 2004, 06:31 PM
Fellow father of 2 by adoption. First time around, I nearly blew it by disagreeing with the social worker that spanking was per se child abuse. Second time around, learned to keep my mouth shut. Showed them how the guns were all locked up and ammo locked up in another part of the house (yes, I know that this is unsafe, but you play thier stupid game 'till they leave).

Hang in there. You have enough on your hands right now.

BTW, very few social workers are pro-freedom or pro-self-responsibility.

May 5, 2004, 06:14 PM
We're just waiting to hear back from the clinical supervisor - apparently she's conferring with the NH DCYF and now with the Russian program coordinators.

May 5, 2004, 06:20 PM
Hope things go smooth. I'm rootin' for you. Keep us posted.:) This my son, Joshua, that we just finalized adoption on. It's worth all the hassle!

May 5, 2004, 06:39 PM
RR - What a great pic! Congrats!

Gee, if Joshua asks for a firearm, range fees., ammo,...ain't no way one could say no with a smile like are in trouble already. :)

May 5, 2004, 10:58 PM
If they've contacted DCYF, then I'm sad to say that I'm less than optimistic. There are any number of horror stories about DCYF, my own brother included.

Hopefully, they'll talk to one of the brighter people. Someone who doesn't have their head so far up their backside that it impairs their ability to breath.

I'll say a few prayers for your journey down the road to adoption, and hope for the best.


May 6, 2004, 09:58 AM
Fortunately, being in the Dark & Fascist State of NJ, the Force warned me to keep my yap mostly shut, and to bite my tongue and endure the "gun safety" lecture from the social(ist) worker, whose only knowledge of guns was that they could be used, without prior warning, by suicidal 7 year olds.

I'm so sorry you stumbled into this landmine.

The end result was worth it though:

{pic upload aborted, out of time to play with it, sorry}

Me, GeeketteWithA9mm, Boo and Pooky.

FWIW, it's too late to "stealth" yourself, but you can smooth things over. You won't convince them of the goodness and wholesomeness of guns, but you can convince them of your _own_ goodness, wholesomeness, and GOOD JUDGEMENT. Don't be afraid to highlight how any shooting for the kids is highly provisional on them being 100% trustworthy, getting good grades in school, not being in any trouble, and whatnot.

Do whatever you need to do.

May 6, 2004, 01:15 PM
This isn't a study, but it's a pretty good read.,2933,119023,00.html

May 10, 2004, 11:27 AM
We talked with the agency further, and it appears that the main problem is that they're applying Massachusetts standards to New Hampshire culture. They seem to think that only police should carry guns, as is generally enforced by law in Massachusetts.

We are waiting to hear back from a New Hampshire-based agency, and not only do they seem to be cheaper, but they have a much more common-sense outlook on the issues around gun ownership.

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