[Sven]

What is the primary role for the Carbine?

Seems like it would fall behind the shotgun for Close Quaters Battle, but behind the rifle for long distance work.

[El Tejon]

How about: a reduced rifle to fight with at handgun ranges (yes, I stole this, of course).

[Hkmp5sd]

Prior to WWI, a carbine was generally a standard service rifle with a shortened barrel and stock which was good for horse mounted troops.

WWI had shown that the full weight and power of a typical service rifle was not always needed. Following the war, the concept of a new "light" rifle was explored.

At the beginning of WWII, the German Blitzkreig tactic meant that REMF's were not necessarily safe being several miles behind the front. Armored and motorized troops could cover that distance rapidly. The common sidearm of REMF's was a pistol and this was not sufficient for them to defend themselves. Giving them full sized battle rifles was determined to be impractical since they also had to do their normal rear area jobs.

The military decided they needed a full/semi auto that was light weight, not to exceed 5 pounds and it needed an effective range of 300 yards.

This resulted in the creation of the M1 .30 Carbine.

[DMK]

What is the primary role for the Carbine?

Seems like it would fall behind the shotgun for Close Quaters Battle, but behind the rifle for long distance work.Actually, I always felt that it fit right in between them.

The average 12 guage isn't very good for pinpoint accuracy any farther than pistol range (from contact to about 25 to 50 yards out) especially when loaded with Buckshot. However a good 16" to 20" barrel length carbine firing a real rifle caliber can be very accurate and effective out to 200 yards or so. Semi-auto carbines typically have the capability to carry quite a few more rounds than shotguns too.

Now pistol caliber carbines are a whole other story. There you are falling back to the 50 to 75 yard range again. They would have some advantages over a shotgun though; Less recoil, same ammo (and maybe same mags) as your sidearm, more precise, sometimes lighter and smaller overall.

[Glamdring]

I have been thinking about this again.

Have to say my thinking is very close to DMK's.

[gburner]

The carbine, once the weapon for horse mounted soldiers, now makes an excellent truck gun...shorter, lighter in weight,
but varied enough that you can find them in bolt, lever or semi-auto; pistol,
assault rifle or full size rifle ammo.

Enfield #5, MAS, M1 Carbine
Moisin Nagant, FR-8
SKS / AK
AR / FAL

[4v50 Gary]

Shorter arms were made for calvary, even back in the 1700s. When infantry arms were shortened, they were for officers and sergeants. First, they wanted the arms to be handy and second, officers and sergeants started carrying short fusils because they became a less distinct target for marksmen who aimed at leaders (still, running around with lace & epaulets aren't conducive to health) who used polearms (pikes) or swords to align their men.

Barrels stayed relatively long at 39 inches even through the American Civil War. When nitrocellulose was invented, it was found that high velocities could be obtained with shorter barrels (about 29 to 30") and as the need to repel calvary wasn't there (Maxims do that well), barrels were shortened. WW I saw further shortening with the 03 Springfield (and before that the SMLE & for the German mountain troopers, the mountain carbine). By WW II, the normal rifle was about 24" long but that wasn't to remain either.

WW II gave us the sturmgewehr and the Russians came out with their AK. We followed suit in the '60s with the AR. Rifles were now no greater than 20" and carbines, well, they shrunk too. The M-4 is something like 14.6" inches - very short when compared to the early 46" barrel of the Brown Bess.

The desire for a shorter weapon hasn't changed and it's easy to see why. More portable, lighter, easier to deploy and easier to use. Even modern sniper rifles are decreasing. Whereas the 24-26" predominated for a long time in the police sniping community, serious consideration is given to the 20" barrel gun. For the military sniper, they still need the longer tubes to reach out to touch someone.

[444]

I think there was one more step in the evolution of the carbine that occured recently.
Today's modern battlefield seems to involve few long range infantry duels. And, there are more weapons suitable for long range than in years past combined with superior communication capablity for directing these weapons against targets. In addition I believe it was realized that the average Joe, couldn't hit targets in combat conditions at extreme ranges, so why not arm the majority of the men with carbines. It is much easier to use in close quarters. It is easy to manuver in and out of APCs etc. And it is still effective out to the range that the average soldier can reliably hit a target while in the field under fire.
Obviously, the carbine isn't the ideal tool for every job, and it was never intended to be. There is still a need for precision long range rifle fire; but not for every soldier.

[DMK]

Carbines are a "Jack of all trades, masters of none".

They are utilized to replace pistols, for CQB, fill in for a rifle, personal sidearm, patrol rifle, etc, etc.

One reason they get bad press is the fact that they don't excel at any of these tasks. However, they mostly are capable of filling the multiple roles.

[Skunkabilly]

Shotgun's neat but I'd rather have a carbine becuase:
1. Easier to clear malfunctions
2. Faster to reload
3. Higher capacity.

[Hkmp5sd]

Shotgun's neat but I'd rather have a carbine becuase:

4. Because they are tactical.
5. Because they are black.
6. Because they are tactical.
7. Because they are the democrat's worst nightmare.
8. Because they are tactical.

[Schuey2002]

Let's not forget about the "Awwwwwww! How cute!" factor..;)
http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cfire.jpg

[4v50 Gary]

"Cute" is a marketing ploy to give you less gun for the money. ;)

[Dr.Rob]

Patton might have called the M1 garand the 'Greatest battle implement ever devised' but he took a carbine to bed.*

* from War As I Knew It, Patton's aides were convinced that german paratroopers were going to attack his moblie HQ.

Funny thing is, for being created as a "REMF" replacement (and MUCH CHEAPER) for a pistol, the Carbine saw use in every theatre and in huge numbers. Something like 5 million of them were made in WW2.

A carbine was a lighter weight, shorter barreled rifle meant for mobile forces, or forces whose primary roles were "other than infantry" ie: artillery troops.

What is a carbine now? A marketing tag.

Why isn't a guide gun a carbine? because you don't do CQB with a levergun? Well most of will never experience CQB anyway.

[JShirley]

It's a heck of a lot easier to rappel with an M4 than an M16.

I have an almost instinctive love and trust of the shotgun as a close-range hammer (having used them much more than anything else growing up in Alabama), but I like carbines quite a bit, too. Mostly because they typically hold more ammo, and perforate certain targets better.

John

[444]

The Guide Gun is a carbine, even Marlin calls it a carbine: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/bigBore_levrAction/1895GS.htm
Model 1895 GS: "The lever action 45/70 carbine that can take on any kind of game can also take on any kind of weather."

I have seen pretty much any short rifle corectly called a carbine and it has nothing with trying to be "tactical".

[Cosmoline]

Pistol-caliber carbines get a bad rap, IMHO. For one thing, they can greatly increase the power and accuracy of larger pistol cartridges. A .357 Mag or .44 Mag become whole new beasts fired out of a good levergun. They are as powerful as a .30-30, with twice the capacity and much cheaper ammo.

Smaller cartridges such as the 9x19 and .45ACP make less sense, and I suspect a lot of negative views of carbines are based on experiences with these, much less potent, cartridges.

[Onslaught]

Speaking specifically of the AR15 carbines (mine's got a 14.5"bbl, but it's NOT an M4 bbl):

On the 500 yard "English" range at Ft. Benning, using iron sights and a sandbag, I can hit the 200 yd diamond 10 for 10, 300 yd silouette 10 for 10, 360 yd sillouette 8 outa 10 and the 500 yd silouette 6 outa 10.

My buddy with the 16" RRA doesn't do any better, and our other buddy with the 20" RRA only does better at 500 yds, but he has a scope on his.

So far... I have not seen any handicap to my shorter barrel.

[JShirley]

"Try it on live targets."

John, likes his M4 better than his M16A4 (or civie AR15A2, for that matter), but wants multiple hits on enemies beyond 200 meters.