Full Auto Air Gun...?


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Nick1911
May 5, 2004, 08:56 PM
I just think it would be a cool thing to have. As far as I know, the only one made is a $200 Russian one that is all plastic. I wonder why no one makes a quality one...? I know I like the idea, anyone else out there who would buy one if you could get a quality, metal one for a reasonable price (prehaps there isn't enough interest in them to justify the cost of tooling up to make em?) That wouldn't fall under any ATF reg, would it?

Just thinking out loud...

Nick

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captain obvious
May 5, 2004, 09:30 PM
My paintball gun is full auto (or damn near close) - its a Tippmann 98 with a reaction trigger set really light

standingbear
May 5, 2004, 09:32 PM
full auto air guns are available in just about any "flavor" you like.there is an mp5 version that i recently saw as well as a mac 11 version.they are metal.check the guns-n-stuff website.Ive seen the other versions that run on small motors and accept the regular accessories on the real guns..the same company even makes close copies of the sound suppressors and other accessories.I forget where the site is but someone even made metal GE minigun complete with spinning barrels and such.they are fun and very realistic.try this site..http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Category?menu1=1&menu2=42#14401

Nick1911
May 5, 2004, 09:39 PM
I'm probably missing it in the catelog, but all i'm seeing that's close to what I'm looking for is the Airsoft series, which (to my knowlage) all fire the 6mm plastic round. What I'm really looking for is one that takes the standard .177 cal steel bb, and fires it out there with a pretty good punch. Am I missing it in their catelog? :confused:

Thanks,
Nick

Harry Tuttle
May 5, 2004, 10:09 PM
http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/strafer_mk4.htm

http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/venom.htm

standingbear
May 5, 2004, 10:14 PM
no..i think they all pretty much shoot the 6mm plastic bbs.still i think the motorized ones from mauri have motor upgrades that send the bb out past 450fps.it isnt powerful but it does sting.awhile back.I had a bb machinegun..it was called the AMP.it used regular bbs but you needed a can of freon to fire it or a air compressor.it was full auto and went to the trash after freon became too expensive.sometimes you can find those thompson look alike bb machine guns that was used in carnivals but they run on air compressors and are expensive as they are a collectors item now.

SirPorl
May 5, 2004, 10:55 PM
My painball gun is full auto. It is a Smart Parts Shocker 4x4 SF.

SirPorl

MagKnightX
May 5, 2004, 11:06 PM
the only FA .177 BB gun I know of is the Drozd, which looks like a DeWalt Uzi.

Dave R
May 5, 2004, 11:53 PM
Drozd, which looks like a DeWalt Uzi.

Great description!

Frank Exchange Of Views
May 6, 2004, 01:08 AM
The NewMatics PM16 PCP rifle was supposed to have gone into "full production" this past February according to this article:

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=384

Appears to use a modified M16 lower - select fire and M16 ergonomics (excluding the air bottle as forearm) magazine was integral to the gun in the earliest articles I had read around a year ago - then I think they were citing 26 rounds, the article above claims 30 with a 50 to be available at some future time.

Looks like it could be fun, but the NewMatics people do not appear to have a website (unless I simply missed it) and I haven't called to price the thing yet.

JohnKSa
May 6, 2004, 01:27 AM
From all accounts, the Drozd, although unconventional in appearance, is a quality product.

When used with lead ball ammo instead of steel BBs, it is also supposed to be quite accurate.

Ascot500
May 6, 2004, 09:47 AM
Daisy made an ungainly looking CO2 pistol, Model 2003 which used a 35 round mag and fired from an open bolt.
There are still a few around on the auction sites and they are easy to convert.
You will need to adapt for bulk CO2 using a paintball tank, also fairly easy.
This is because the temperature of a 12 gram drops rapidly when rock&rolling.
Do a search and you may find detailed instructions for doing the conversion.

Be safe - wear eye protection.

tgwms
April 3, 2009, 01:35 PM
... but this thread hit near the top on Google for 'full auto airgun', so people are landing here often. and i'd hate for the thread to not be 100% accurate for all those people ;) ha

www.fullyautomaticairgun.com (http://www.fullyautomaticairgun.com)

just what you are looking for Mr Nick.

cratti
April 3, 2009, 02:58 PM
There's a few full-autos available, and to my knowledge, the most heavily-regulated thing is the full-auto electric/CO2 Airsoft guns; some cities don't like them too much. Nearly any semiautomatic paintball marker can be converted to full auto/selective fire just by getting an electronic trigger, which if I'm not mistaken, is the same concept behind the DROZD.

tgwms
April 3, 2009, 06:38 PM
- the drozd is nothing like a paintball gun. it fires from an open (OPEN, not unlocked) breech using a direct strike from a solenoid on an inverted poppet valve. that is nothing like any painball gun i've ever seen.

- and no, there are not 'a few' available. this is not airsoft, the drozd is the only full auto airgun (metallic 177 caliber projectile) on the market. there are a few 'one-offs' and kit guns, but the drozd is it...

enter the GSMG (http://www.fullyautomaticairgun.com)

not to argue or anything... but facts be facts! :)

highorder
April 3, 2009, 06:53 PM
- the drozd is nothing like a paintball gun. it fires from an open (OPEN, not unlocked) breech using a direct strike from the bolt a solenoid on an inverted poppet valve. that is nothing like any painball gun i've ever seen.


That is precisely how the Tippmann paintpall guns work, in addition to others.

t165
April 3, 2009, 11:46 PM
I read up on the Drozd a couple of years ago and bought one. I also bought the kit which allows me to use a paintball pressure cylinder setup. Changing out the co2 cartridges is a pain.

Good power...not a toy. The Drozd has three settings, single shot, 3 shot, and 6 shot burst. There is a mod board out there which allows full auto. The factory magazine only holds 30 BB's. Many different types of accessories for the Drozd including magazines which hold hundreds of BB's, longer barrels for more velocity, large compressed air/gas tanks for extended shooting. Youtube has some fun videos.

t165
April 3, 2009, 11:56 PM
And If I might add the Drozd has a lot of metal in it's construction. The outside is covered in thick plastic/synthetic material which seems to be very durable. The metal magazine and other metal parts seem to be stoutly constructed.

mr.trooper
April 4, 2009, 12:14 AM
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/walther-sg9000-co2-bb-shotgun.shtml

Does 3 shot burst count?

DoubleTapDrew
April 4, 2009, 12:20 AM
The Drozd looks like a lot of fun but the cost is hard to justify. For those that have one, is it worth it? Would you buy one again knowing what you know now?
Also, I've heard they are quite loud, so probably not something to play around with in the garage?

TheVirginian
April 4, 2009, 12:57 AM
Air guns are great for indoor practice. They are all the rage in the UK where owning a real gun is the stuff of fantasy for most. I've marveled at the idea of an auto BB gun for plinking but it has drawbacks. Obviously the largest is the air supply. They throw out a lot of air and don't really achieve good velocity. Ammo is cheap, it's the compressed air or CO2 that is the problem. Super low velocity isn't much fun either. A BB pistol is underwhelming for the most part.

You can get a few higher velocity types of pistols but most are 450 fps or lower. Rifles are of course higher powered but are not as managable and don't offer the fun of pistol practice IMO. I settled on a single shot, pneumatic type. It delivers a lead .177 pellet at 500 fps with only one pump. It is a break-barrel, breach loaded gun and is a great target gun and also is useful (but not really practical) for close range pest control. It's a Webley Tempest and is an English gun. You can find them still under the Beeman name. I shot paper targets in a steel shot trap indoors, when I had the time.
-Bill

trigga
April 4, 2009, 01:02 AM
there is the walther ppks .177 cal 15 shot that you can mod to be full auto. i have one and was thinking of converting it too. there is a site step by step how to convert it. here is a quick vid, about half way into the vid they shoot the little thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_ms58RQ2r8

Hush
April 4, 2009, 01:04 AM
Airsoft is the way to go...but there are custom, etc options for .177bbs. Never seen a pellet full auto, but if it can be thought of, it can be made. No ATF regs with no ignition. You will most likely have to rely on an external air source (Co2 paintball tank or compressor) Or, like I always wanted as a kid, one of those TommyGun BB guns from the carnival..where you have to shoot out the star. In terms of range, accuracy, and power, the difference between .177 bb, and 6mm airsoft isnt all that different. Plus the airsoft options are significantly more diverse (imagine any gun you could dream of...full size, weight, and metal for only $300 bucks...) PLUS you can actually shoot people with them.

IMO, unless your dead set on practicing for the prize on the top shelf or the big teddy bear...a full auto bb gun isnt going to be as satisfying as you think. I know it offends the sensibilities of most on here, but think airsoft.

trigga
April 4, 2009, 01:39 AM
oh and the ppk is all metal except for some parts like grip, magazine, co2 knob and some internals like the barrel housing. it's around $60-90 and a great fun gun. only down fall is the blow back kind of robs the velocity. rated at 290fps, that's like for the first 50 shots out the the 12 gram co2. very nice replica gun.

heviarti
April 4, 2009, 03:24 AM
If anyone has a scanner and american rifleman back into the 70s or 80s, there used to be a thing called the M19-AMP and M19-A. it was full auto, .177 and used either a tank of compressed air or a small one pound freon can (yeah, really), and had a max capacity of 3000 BBs. They used to advertise it in AR all the time. I'll search my collection and get a date, and post the contact info for the company (which is likely long dead) And now for the edit...

Find the ad on page 66 of the june 1982 American Rifleman, bottom of the page.

LARC INT.
P.O BOX 460
Maitland, FL 32751
(305) 339-6699

TheVirginian
April 4, 2009, 11:00 AM
How soon we forget. I remember that now that you mention it. There is a new copy in the works which was referenced in one of the links in this thread. Like all fast or CO2 based guns, it had low velocity. these days, the seals may be leaking and it'd be even less exciting. Very cool for $40 back in the day though.
-Bill

mr.trooper
April 4, 2009, 11:02 AM
They throw out a lot of air and don't really achieve good velocity. Ammo is cheap, it's the compressed air or CO2 that is the problem. Super low velocity isn't much fun either. A BB pistol is underwhelming for the most part.

the Daisy Red rider i used to kill birds with, back when i was a youngster, only shoots 250 fps. The 480fps from the Walther, or 540fps Drozd would be just fine for pest control. A multi-shot burst within 20 yards is going to drop a squirrel or just about any bird with no problems.

As for the air... just get an air compressor and a filling station from a paintball supply shop; free bulk air.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 4, 2009, 11:54 AM
Well, if I'm not mistaken, that website:

http://www.fullyautomaticairgun.com/

States a pretty blatant lie:

The GSMG is a fully automatic airgun firing BBs or pellets at incredibly high speeds;

No, I don't think that it will feed pellets at incredibly high speeds. I believe they are lying. BBs yes, pellets, no. If they lie about that, what else are they lying about?


the Daisy Red rider i used to kill birds with, back when i was a youngster, only shoots 250 fps.

I used to kill birds with a red ryder too - about 1 out of every 100 shots, I'd be accurate enough to hit with. This one may or may not have the accuracy you need. I had a Drodz Beehive, and it was reasonably accurate (much more than a Red Ryder), but I'll take one shot from a single shot pellet gun any day over a rain of less-accurate and non-expansive BBs (which is why I sold the Drodz - no real practical use - fun as all get-out though).

heviarti
April 4, 2009, 01:13 PM
All we need now is for someone to scan off a copy of the ad and post it.

Art Eatman
April 4, 2009, 01:26 PM
Totally off-topic, but you guys keep jogging my memory: My mother gave me my first Daisy Red Ryder for Christmas, 1941. I put holes in my lead soldiers from around fifteen feet, killing Japs and Germans. Patriotic imagination and all that, at age seven and eight.

Wish I'd kept those soldiers intact. Can you imagine what they'd bring on eBay? (Same for that two-foot-high stack of pristine comic books, too, for that matter.)

:D, Art

tgwms
April 4, 2009, 01:40 PM
No, I don't think that it will feed pellets at incredibly high speeds. I believe they are lying. BBs yes, pellets, no. If they lie about that, what else are they lying about?

jeez man- open your mind a bit. the Beretta CX-4 Storm fires pellets and BBs. why could a similar mechanism not be used?

a company's statement is not a blatant lie simply because its product's operation is not obvious to you.

TheVirginian
April 4, 2009, 03:43 PM
I think they mean lead shot, although they use the term "pellets". That's the only way it can be fed from a hopper. Cylindrical pellets would indeed have a tough time feeding from a magazine. Spherical ammo just doesn't jam.

I've shot BB's a plenty as a kid and have owned several air powered "rifles" and pistols. The difference that a target or hunting lead pellet makes in accuracy is pretty great. It gets even better through a proper pellet gun which utilizes a rifled barrel. Add to that the mass of the pellet vs a BB and you've got a much more lethal weapon as far as rodents are concerned. Shooting wild birds with anything is simply pointless and cruel IMO. Granted, they fall easily to just about any ammo as they are very light and fragile animals.

I also used to have a sling shot and armed with heavy steel shot (about .32 cal?), it would probably knock out just about anything smaller than a dog within close range. Accuracy on the other hand...
-Bill

elmerfudd
April 4, 2009, 10:19 PM
Apparently there are a few select fire FX Monsoons out there. They're very accurate, very powerful, (by airgun standards), very quiet and very expensive.

t165
April 4, 2009, 11:32 PM
When I want to do any serious pest control around the house I grab my RWS springer. The Drozd is just for fun. It does seem to penetrate wood boards and hit with more authority with lead BB's than steel ones. I bought one brand of lead BB's that were so soft they would deform while under the spring tension of the magazine and jam the gun every now and then. I found some foreign brand that was lead on the outside and steel cored...these worked the best. The barrel of the Drozd is rifled and I was apprehensive about shooting regular steel BB's through it.

alemonkey
April 5, 2009, 11:19 AM
You can make your own full auto bb gun - look up "vortex block". Really not a true air gun, but it would be fun to play with.

Dark Skies
April 5, 2009, 12:01 PM
This chap made his own. It fires real bullets but is air-powered. Apparently the plans are out there somewhere in cyberspace.

Caselman Air Machine Gun

Part I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUKxO03HlOM

Sound quality is a bit off but it certainly looks impressive.

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDqs2GSaCXs

rich636
April 5, 2009, 05:03 PM
I have a feeling Tgwms is disingenuously site pimping here since this thread is the top result for the airgun that he is selling accessories for.

Edit: I'd feel differently if the guy had previously been a member of the forum

Gunnerpalace
April 5, 2009, 05:25 PM
At least we don't have a P3 rep here,

But yeah I see the Drosz's (that right?) on gunbroker all the time I guess this is just about actually steel bb/pellet guns, otherwise I would suggest an airsoft gun. On a side note don't the Walther Pellet guns get crazy accuracy on par with rifles at a distance?

Floppy_D
April 5, 2009, 06:51 PM
I've got a Drozd, it's a hoot. It'll punch a hole in a tin can, easy. It's very well made, nothing about it feels cheap. It gets pretty decent accuracy with lead BBs. I ate up a 6000 round jug of BBs the first week I had it... made me realize that I will never afford real full auto weapons... but the BB gun I can manage. The new ones are all black, and it looks less like a power drill with an Aimpoint CompM2 on top. :D

10-Ring
April 5, 2009, 08:17 PM
My son's paintball gun has a full auto mode and his airsoft tommy gun has a full auto mode too -- it's kinda cool -- it's electric & has metal gears

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 5, 2009, 08:37 PM
Here you go 100 round capacity, I would love one of these http://www.geocities.com/bbmachinegun/review5.htm

trigga
April 6, 2009, 01:09 AM
yes i remember seeing that tommy gun at the carnival. they has 100 round tubes of bb feeding it or something. i want one of those. and the other one too.

t165
April 6, 2009, 04:43 AM
That brings back memories HOME DEPOT GEORGE! Strap a scuba tank on your back and have at it with one of these puppies. I think they would be very popular today if someone would manufacture one. Great fun.

Remember the aiming arc of the gun could not be turned far enough when it was attached at the carnival booth to shoot your buddies in the ass. The water guns did not have this safety feature and I use to drown unsuspecting friends. The old days. :)

Hostile Amish
April 6, 2009, 09:22 AM
EAA Izh-Baikal Drozd. (It's a mouthful)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 6, 2009, 12:46 PM
I think they mean lead shot, although they use the term "pellets". That's the only way it can be fed from a hopper. Cylindrical pellets would indeed have a tough time feeding from a magazine. Spherical ammo just doesn't jam.

Exactly, and lead shot ain't no "pellet", by definition.

It's conceivably possible that they're not lying, but I highly highly doubt it, knowing what I know about basic physics and engineering, and how darn near impossible it is to successful feed and fire soft fragile lead pellets in a full-auto mechanism. It would have to be a completely different mechanism from the one that feeds and fires round BBs. Does it look like it has 2 completely interchangeable mechanisms that come with it? I'd bet at least $10K that they're lying.

The Drodz works and works well - I had one. 1, 3, or 6 round bursts; 3 different firing rates. I don't doubt that the new gizmo can also feed and fire BBs or hardened lead shot on full-auto, just as the Drodz does. That's not the issue. The issue is whether it fires pellets full auto. It will not, 99.9999998% chance.

elmerfudd
April 6, 2009, 01:03 PM
Most of the magazine fed pellet guns out there work with cylinder type mags. These work similar to a revolver, only usually the pellets are pushed out of the cylinder and chambered in the barrel by the bolt probe prior to firing.

This arrangement keeps the pellets undamaged and allows for a reliable feed. The main downside of it is that you have somewhat limited capacity. Beretta overcame this by using a belt mechanism on their CX4 pellet gun.

Floppy_D
April 6, 2009, 01:50 PM
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/floppy_d/100_5711.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/floppy_d/100_5712.jpg

:D

tgwms
April 6, 2009, 02:42 PM
I'd bet at least $10K that they're lying.

'Dr. Tad' please put that bet in writing. I'll take you up on it.

:)

No... seriously.

dmckean44
April 6, 2009, 03:10 PM
That Caselman gun looks the most interesting. Is anyone making a clone of it?

BillyBA
April 6, 2009, 03:18 PM
am i crazy or is that some of yal are crazy ? i looked at several of these fully auto bb-guns , and although most of them do look pretty darn cool , the prices that they go for are insane ?!?! why would anyone pay a thousand plus dollars ( in some case over $2k) for a bb gun rather than get a just as sweet real rifle or maybe even two ???:what:

rondog
April 6, 2009, 03:51 PM
I want one of these BB Miniguns....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i-Eht5-JSQ

Floppy_D
April 6, 2009, 05:09 PM
why would anyone pay a thousand plus dollars ( in some case over $2k) for a bb gun rather than get a just as sweet real rifle or maybe even two ???

I've only got $280 invested in mine, including the dot sight. $2k? Get real. :)

t165
April 6, 2009, 09:08 PM
I posted a photo of some GAMO lead bb's. I think these are the pure lead ones instead of the steel core/lead wrapped ones. As you can see on the back they are referred to as "pellets" even though they are round. As fragile as the pure lead BB's are I cannot see how a regular pellet could work under spring pressure without deforming. A revolver wheel would work fine but constant reloading would take a lot of the fun out of it. The factory 30 round spring tension magazine is bad enough. I paid $179.00 for my Drozd 2-3 years ago. The air tank conversion kit cost me around $80.00 more.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
April 7, 2009, 07:52 AM
You can still find the old thompson style carnival guns here and there.

BUTCHER45
April 13, 2009, 03:26 PM
You can head over to the local Home Depot and buy the parts to make one yourself for well under $100.

A friend built one up, and said it worked. Jammed occasionally; he cleared it by shaking it.

VERY high rate of fire.

http://www.burntlatke.com/bb.html

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
April 13, 2009, 03:43 PM
I want one of these BB Miniguns.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i-Eht5-JSQ

What THE - Holy - :eek: :eek: I'm not Worthy!!!!! :eek: :eek: Where can I buy it?!

Gunnerpalace
April 13, 2009, 05:14 PM
That one is 6000.00

Echo 1 makes a cheaper version for 3500.00 Here (http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=4514)

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