[BigRedBowtie]

I'll start with a story, then ask my question...

Tonight, as my wife was driving a loaner car, (BOTH trucks in the shop) the brakes began to grind. It didn't happen gradually, but suddenly, causing the pedal to require more pressure to stop. Coming upon the intersection without the stopping power that she had planned on, my wife decided that her safest option was to roll through in a right-hand turn. (Kudos, dear!) Well, one of our cities' finest didn't agree. She got pulled over.
(Here comes the gun part)
My wife is VERY good about carrying every day, every time she leaves the house. Legal, permitted, trained and holstered- everything done right. MN law does NOT require that a permit-holder inform a LEO that they are carrying. Through conversation with instructors and other permit-holders, I have given my wife the standing advice that if she were ever pulled over, to offer her permit to carry as a polite way to inform the officer that she was carrying- not to mention the "I'm one of the good guys" factor.

Ms. Badge #3619(yes MS): "DL and Reg, please"
(wife hands requested docs along with permit to carry)
LEO: "this (permit) isn't it"
Mrs Z:"I just wanted to let you know that I am carrying"
LEO:"well, who do you work for"
Mrs Z: "uh"
LEO:"Who do you work for"
Mrs. Z:"Well-"
LEO:"Why are you carrying"
Mrs Z:"For Personal Protection"
LEO:"Oh" (hands permit back)
LEO proceded to berate my wife about not stopping, My lil Mrs explained brakes failed, "why are you driving the car" etc, etc, etc...

At any rate, the brakes and ticket are NOT the purpose of this post. How do those of you in "not required to inform" states handle this situation? I have considered it a common courtesy to this point. From a law enforcement perpective, is informing an officer courteous, or arrogant? If the situation arises where I'm requested out of my car, I'm not interested in getting tackled/ cuffed/ covered by an itchy glock, and everything that may go with "surprising" an LEO.

What should be done in this situation?

[Andrew Rothman]

I roll down the window, turn on the interior light if it's dark, and keep my hands on the wheel.


When it gets to "Driver's license please," I say, IN THIS ORDER, "I have a PERMIT to carry a HANDGUN. I am carrying it now, on my left hip. How would you like me to proceed?

I got stopped by a Minneapolis police officer a month ago. I did this. He said, "That's fine."

He didn't back away, put his hand on his gun, or appear the least bit nervous as I reached past my gun for my wallet.

I can't promise that all cops will behave as reasonably, but courtesy often begets courtesy.

[WonderNine]

Did he check to see if you actually had a CCW?

[BigRedBowtie]

WonderNine: Did he check to see if you actually had a CCW?

Wondernine- I don't understand... you talkin to me or Payne? You talking about the Permit to Carry, or the weapon itself?
(Btw- with no ill intent, the term "CCW" is an easy term to misuse, and is too often misused/ misconstrued by the antis... My card is a "Permit to Carry a Handgun")

Matt, in Minneapolis, I'd expect as harsh of treatment as anyplace, but then again, the 'burbs are totally safe, right? Why would anyone need a g-g-g-gun? The po-lice are here to keep you safe!:barf:

[THIN ICE]
Is there a general consensus that lady officers are a bit more "hardnosed" than their male counterparts? Might this have had something to do with her 'difficult' attitude toward my wife's choice to protect herself?
[/THIN ICE]

Any LEOs have an opinion on how "we" should act in a traffic stop?

[cropcirclewalker]

Missouri has been an open carry state since 1875, long befoe autos.

I don't have a CCW PTC or whatever, but for the last several years, I have just left my pistol in open view either on the seat or the dash, depending on whether my truck seat is occupied by wives or dogs.

One statie pointing to the piece, said, "You're doing that exactly right"

Several staties have never mentioned the firearm.

Only once have I been rousted and that was by some ignorant LEOs at the St. Louis Airport. They chained me to a bench for a couple of hours while they tried to figure out what to charge me with. After my wife took off without my help checking her in, they determined that I had committed a lawful act, grudgingly returned my weapon and sent me on my way.

When I get "Permission" from the govt. to carry I will still do the same.

Firearm in plain view and not mention it. For the most part it has worked in the past.

[Wildalaska]

Im required to tell the cops by state law and would do anyway, simple common courtesy to those who put their l;ives on the line for all of us everyday.

WildwearepolicefriendstheantigunnersarenotAlaska

[Fed168]

What Matt Payne did is right. That's how LE likes to find out.

[Leatherneck]

Only one accasion to "converse" with a police-man while legally carrying. Had my license, registration and concealed handgun permit ready to hand him. Virginia has no law requiring me to inform. He looked at it puzzled for a moment, then said "Oh. This is for your gun, right?" :D
Handed it back and told me to make sure my load was covered better next time, and bid adieux.

TC
TFL Survivor

[goalie]

I roll down the window, turn on the interior light if it's dark, and keep my hands on the wheel.


When it gets to "Driver's license please," I say, IN THIS ORDER, "I have a PERMIT to carry a HANDGUN. I am carrying it now, on my left hip. How would you like me to proceed?

I got stopped by a Minneapolis police officer a month ago. I did this. He said, "That's fine."

He didn't back away, put his hand on his gun, or appear the least bit nervous as I reached past my gun for my wallet.

I can't promise that all cops will behave as reasonably, but courtesy often begets courtesy.

I wish I was treated like that by the Minneapolis PD. I guess I look more like a criminal than Andrew does when I am dressed in scrubs going to work, because my lone experience with them as a permit carrier was quite the polar opposite, and it wasn't because of my attitude or demeanor.

[ScottS]

Depends on where I'm carrying, and how the stop goes. No requirement to inform in my state. Window down, sunglasses off, interior lights on, hands on the wheel at 10 and 2. If I'm carrying anywhere near my wallet, then I'm going to say something before reaching. If I'm carrying in my left jacket pocket, or somewhere like that, then I'm not going to say anything unless I'm asked to step out of the car. At that point, I'm going to let the guy know I'm carrying.

Scott

[BigRedBowtie]

Fed- Is handing the permit just as cordial a means of informing an LEO as telling them?

BigRedwildalaskasphrasesinhissignaturesaregettingwaytoolongBowtie:D

[sturmruger]

I have always kept it to myself. If they were to ask me to get out of the car I would probably fill them in about the gun on my hip.

[Leatherneck]

BigRedwildalaskasphrasesinhissignaturesaregettingwaytoolongBowtie Think of them as a challenge.:D

TC
TFL Survivor

[Andrew Rothman]

To answer the question way back there, no, the Minneapolis officer didn't even ask to see my permit.

He was single-minded in his goal to issue the ticket and move on.

I was quite surprised by the civility -- Minneapolis cops have a lousy reputation, and it is well deserved.

As Goalie knows, they are not always this well behaved.

Goalie's bad experience with Minneapolis cops happened at night in a bad neighborhood, with cops who regularly work there and then.

My good experience was during the day with a traffic unit officer who was likely fairly new on the force and spent his day shifts giving tickets to white(-collar) downtown workers who drive a little fast.

Each seemed to act as a product of their environment.

Or, most likely, I got extra lucky and Goalie got extra unlucky.

In any case, I think that cops who are jerks will keep acting that way, but in general the police are figuring out that permit holders are not the bad guys.

[spacemanspiff]

did you notice wildalaska slipped up yesterday, and didnt put the 'alaska' at the end of his signature?

lets have a race and see who can find it before he edits it to save face!

:neener:

[Bobarino]

i never understood this "common courtesy" thing about revealing you are armed when you don't have to. if you don't intend to do them harm, aren't you just making more trouble for them? i can understand if you're asked to step out of the vehicle, or retrieving your wallet might lead to uncovering your piece or perhaps its in the glove box with your registration. if asked, of course i would let them know, but i've never been asked and the one time my gun was in my glove box, i told the cop i had to get the reg. and all he said was,"just be sure its only the paper that comes out." ok i said.

my personal policy has been don't ask, don't tell with regards to law enforcement. they don't need to know i'm armed anymore than the checker at the grocery store does, or anyone else for that matter.

Bobby

[Clean97GTI]

I informed an officer that I was carrying once...just once. I spent the next 45 minutes in handcuffs sitting on the side of the road while the officer searched my vehicle (with my permission of course) When I told him I was carrying (the law doesn't require me to) he opened the door told me to step out and put my hands behind my head. I was then cuffed and questioned as to why I was carrying. He ran the numbers and verified taht I was legal. Then he decides a search in a good idea. He asked to search and I said no and asked to be un-cuffed. He went into a whole bit about how I was carrying and "I could call a K-9 unit...." I just told him to search my totally empty car.

I now keep it a secret unless I am asked specifically.

[mvpel]

Clean - deprivation of civil rights under the color of law? Is it too late to sue him?

[Stand_Watie]

I can't speak for any experience with Minnesota Leo's, but I keep my CCW right next to my driver's license and my insurance card, and hand them all over together - with the lights turned on and keep my hands on the steering wheel. I rather be temporarily deprived of my rights than permanently. The one time I've tested this method I was treated very curteously by a Texas State trooper. He wanted to know what I was carrying and where, but didn't ask why. Gave me a warning citation for a headlight. He even called me "sir" which makes you feel kind of old if you're only in your 30's.

[Strings]

He went into a whole bit about how I was carrying and "I could call a K-9 unit...."

"That's cool... when you put in the call for the K9 unit, also call for your watch commander."

Sorry... this whole attitude problem reminds me of teenagers: they keep pushing until they find the limit. Unfortunately, people seem content to allow the police to keep on pushing...

[TCD]

while I will tell the authorities that I am carrying rather I have to or not

I will never consent to a search of my car or house.

[Wildalaska]

lets have a race and see who can find it before he edits it to save face!

Ha!


WildiwillneverfallforhttaoldtrickspiffyaknowmebetterAlaska

[spacemanspiff]

http://66.80.73.51/showthread.php?s=&postid=979244#post979244

:neener:

spacemanI'mstilltryingtofigureouthowtogetyoubackforthelingeriespiff

[artherd]

"That's cool... when you put in the call for the K9 unit, also call for your watch commander."

"And you'd might as well get the Assistant and Senior DAs out here too, they'll want to be present for this event which is going to result in the best lawsuit of all time. Well, for me."

"I want to get a Browning M2 anyway, this suit should leave me with enough to get that and a Hummer to mount it on, and a ranch to drive it around on. So, go ahead, call that K-9 unit, and detain me withought probable cause, pretty please?"

Only cops that RESPECT OUR CIVIL RIGHTS are our friends (thankfully, most of them not only respect those rights, but literally give their lives in defense of them every day.)

[David Scott]

Whenever stopped by an LEO, it's wise to keep hands in plain view. When I got pulled over a couple years ago, the officer asked for my license, registration & insurance. I handed them over and said, "And this is my concealed weapons permit. I am armed." He just said OK and went back to his car to verify my license and permit, then gave them back (with a ticket, dammit). No signs of paranoia at all.

LEOs around here are cool with CCW. During the last election I went to a candidate's forum for the office of Sheriff, and all four candidates came out strong for the 2nd Amendment and CCW rights. I know several LEOs who encourage their friends to get permits. Hell, at my motorcycle club's annual picnic one year, the talk turned to guns, and it came out that something like 15 of the 18 people present were licensed to carry. It was an eye-opener to hear suburban housewives debating the relative merits of a 5-shot .38 versus a PPK.

[BigRedBowtie]

well, thanks for all your input, everyone... Most of your advice/ chosen methods of dealing with this situation go right down the line of what I've heard before. I like the idea of handing an officer a card that says "I'm not nuts, or a felon, or a drunk, I'm over 21 and responsible, and I want you to know that I have no intentions of surprising you" On the other hand, I (and my wife) am legal, and there is merit to the idea that if I'm gonna stay in the car and if Of. Friendly won't see my weapon, well... then is nun'ya business. Third, I really like the hummer idea... but I think I'll take a new diesel excursion for the wife, too.

I have dark-tinted windows on all of my vehicles, so I have always put the windows down, turned the lights on and gotten my wallet out before I needed it, then keeping my hands on the wheel. Come to think of it, I usually turn the car off, too- to remove the threat of me fleeing. So, this is the advice I gave my wife, she followed it, and all it got her was a whole pile of attitude from the cop.

At any rate, we (small suburb, here) have a new police chief taking over monday, and he's a good customer of ours, so I may go chat with him sometime- just to get his opinion.

BigRedcan'twaitforthecourtdateBowtie

[Chris Rhines]

All my first and second-hand experience leads me to believe that one should not inform a police officer that he is carrying a concealed weapon unless he is legally required to do so.

- Chris

[artherd]

I have dark-tinted windows on all of my vehicles, so I have always put the windows down, turned the lights on and gotten my wallet out before I needed it, then keeping my hands on the wheel.


Very good idea, I always do this. I was asked by a currious officer once why. I said "Well, several family friends of mine are LE. They tell me the most nerve-racking things they do are traffic stops. I figure it's common courteousy to you guys."

No ticket that night.

[Tom Servo]

Very good idea, I always do this. I was asked by a currious officer once why. I said "Well, several family friends of mine are LE. They tell me the most nerve-racking things they do are traffic stops. I figure it's common courteousy to you guys."
I've done the same thing a few times. In Georgia, they'll actually ASK sometimes why you've handed them the CCW if it's just a traffic stop. My response has always been, "if I were in your shoes, I sure as heck wouldn't want any surprises." They appreciate this.

[CrudeGT]

Here is Salt Lake we are required to notify the officers present of our permit and our concealed carry. I always do so as soon as they come to the car. They'll ask for the usual DL, registration, insurance, and I'll respond "I also have a Concealed Carry Permit" and my concealed carry is on me" Or, if my gun is in the glove box, it's usually on top of my registration. So I'll notify them "My concealed carry is in my glove box, I need to get in there to get my registration, just so you don't frek when you see a gun in there" Most of them don't think anything of it, as soon as they see the permit.


I did have an interesting experience once, the officers asked me to open my glove box, as I reach for it, I hear that distinctive click of the thumb button on his holster being uncliped. I open the glove box, he asks me to place the firearm on my passenger seat, and hand him the registration. I do so, he asks me to place the gun back in my glovebox, lock my glovebox, and restart my car.

I thought this through, smart cop. I can't get into my glovebox without the key that's in my ignition. If my car stops, he knows what I'm doing. And he's got my DL, insurance, registration, and Permit. He knows I'm not going anywhere.