Interesting thing I noticed about our community here


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Zundfolge
May 7, 2004, 07:36 PM
I've noticed lately that some of the political discourse in the L&P forum has become much less polite in the last few months, and more often then in the past it dips below the standards of The High Road.

When you click on the little http://www.thehighroad.org/images/find.gif icon in each message a window opens with all the posts made by that member.

I've noticed that those who post the most polemic and derisive posts don't seem to post in any forum but L&P and General, and often those they are in debate with (and who are maintaining the standards of The High Road) have a larger percentage of their posts in the more technical sections of THR then in L&P and General.


Just an interesting observation ... I'll let y'all draw your own conclusions.

:evil:

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Art Eatman
May 7, 2004, 07:54 PM
Well, for one thing, it's a presidential election year. Passions run higher, then, plus we have the ever-increasing polarization that's going on in this country. Next is the whole package of 9/11 + WOT + Iraq, which creates very strong feelings.

A Board like this one has a cross-section of gun bugs. Some sections are crosser than others.

:), Art

Ben Shepherd
May 7, 2004, 08:11 PM
I think Art hit it on the head.

Example: I have a couple of fellow shooters at work that are going to vote for Kerry. They are very pro gun, just not single issue voters. Ufortunately the gun issue is overrun by suuport for a pro-abortion or anti-war view, etc. And I have to admit a few of them have sent me home to do research because they outdebated me or asked a question I had never put any thought into.

I think we have a lot of posters here that would fit that mold. Fine. More power to them, at least they are involved and have a posistion.

I think it happens in L&P and GD alot because you can get a little off track from strictly guns into related issues.

We all just need to remember our standards. This is BY FAR the most civil board on the net, and we need to make sure it stays that way.

atek3
May 7, 2004, 09:48 PM
We all just need to remember our standards. This is BY FAR the most civil board on the net, and we need to make sure it stays that way.
I don't know ben, Mormons are pretty civil :D
http://www.hillcrestknitwear.com/ubbthreads/links.php

atek3

Ben Shepherd
May 7, 2004, 10:01 PM
atek3, notice I am from Utah? So I am a, you guessed it, Mormon.

Yeah, we are a pretty civil bunch. But I know a few of us that can get uncivil in a big hurry when it's needed.:D

But there is NO question that we are the most civil firearms related board our size on the net.

Zundfolge
May 7, 2004, 10:21 PM
I think y'all missed my point.

I'm saying it seems to me that the agitators are NOT shooters, but come here to stir up trouble

4v50 Gary
May 7, 2004, 10:24 PM
Yes, agitators do show up and then the staff takes action. Sometimes we send out the black crow (Russian slang for the black cars that came at 2 a.m. to pick people up).

Wildalaska
May 7, 2004, 10:29 PM
Sometimes we send out the black crow (Russian slang for the black cars that came at 2 a.m. to pick people up).


O gawd visions of troikas sending innocent posters off to the Kolyma to work in the mines ROTF.....

WildgaypayooshnikAlaska

Standing Wolf
May 7, 2004, 10:37 PM
I'm saying it seems to me that the agitators are NOT shooters, but come here to stir up trouble

Well, heck, maybe they just couldn't afford tickets to the Multitude of Moronic Moms march in Washington, D.C.

fjolnirsson
May 7, 2004, 11:20 PM
I've noticed exactly what Zundfolge is speaking of. I haven't been a member here very long, myself. However, this is the most civil board I have found anywhere on the net. That includes faith based boards.
In the last month or so, I have seen more than a few rude/inflammatory posts. Some are from senior members, but most seem to be from new folks. Maybe we need a new float about high road standards?
BTW, if any of you notice me posting in a way not to high road standards, I would hope to recieve a friendly PM reminding me?

Shanghai McCoy
May 7, 2004, 11:30 PM
Not knowing much about many other gun boards,being a computer "noob" I can tell ya that the archery Bowsite community board gets downright UGLY over there.These are stressful times and with all the PC stuff at our various jobs ya can get a tad carried away at the keyboard.This site is well mannered due both to the quality of members and an even handed but firm staff.

Jim March
May 8, 2004, 12:16 AM
Heh. I checked myself :).

Around 1/3rd or a tad more of what I post is split between Non-Firearms Weapons (I'm a knife guy too), revolvers and general handguns. Much of the rest, legal/political and a bit of general.

I guess considering what I do for a living :D that ain't too bad?

MeekandMild
May 8, 2004, 01:58 AM
What can I say? I'm the last living Neanderthal Man and I happen to enjoy the mild polemic available in these areas. Its not as much fun as wrestling wooly mammoths, but its all I have since you guys killed them all off. I'm less analytical than the H. sapians who post in the more erudite sections. So what? It is my birthright as the last member of my species.:neener:

c_yeager
May 8, 2004, 05:58 AM
I'm saying it seems to me that the agitators are NOT shooters, but come here to stir up trouble

Just for the record it should be noted that NOWHERE on any of the highroad pages does it list being a gun owner as a prerequisite for membership.

Barbara
May 8, 2004, 09:07 AM
Well, I post here mostly, because I don't feel really qualified to post in some of the more technical forums. I read but don't say a lot. I bite my tongue (figuratively, of course) in discussions L&P a lot, because I'm definately a little out of sync with some members here, but I do think that disagreement, as long as it's done with respect, is crucial to us. I don't want to hang out someplace where everyone has the same opinion, either on political parties, or on glocks. You don't learn a darned thing from someone who thinks exactly like you. I think the trick is to disagree while keeping the level of discussion on the high road.

BluesBear
May 8, 2004, 09:35 AM
Which is why I do my best to avoid L&P. I barely have enough time to read what going on in General and Handguns. I don't even have time for Rifle & Shotgun. If I were to waste all of my time wading through L&P I'd never have any fun on here.

I do agree with you though. It does seem that, for the most part, the "shooters" here are very level headed.

Ben Shepherd
May 8, 2004, 10:28 AM
Zundfolge, so I hit the 8 ring instead of the X?:D Oops, my bad.

Even if they are non-shooters, they are here. I am glad. Let 'em look around awhile, they'll just find out we're not maniacs or such. The more they read, the more they can't unread. They have to mentally process what they read, no way around it. They may even get curious enough to actually try shooting. And we all know what happens after that.

Your concern is valid, but as noted above it usually comes from someone that's a newer member, and they're most likely used to being allowed to be mean or spiteful on boards. Once they really notice that that doesn't fly here, they'll calm down.

But the true agitators are controlled pretty well by our moderators I think.

Good shooting,
Ben

444
May 8, 2004, 10:30 AM
Unless the agitators are the moderators.

TechBrute
May 8, 2004, 10:38 AM
Unless the agitators are the moderators. Oh man... you went there... :what: :D

Barbara
May 8, 2004, 10:42 AM
Hmm.. maybe I took this personally because I post here more than in the gun forums? Mostly I'm not that good at the technical aspects of shooting although I'm pretty passionate about our Constitutional right to bear arms (and that may be an understatement.) Still, I do often disagree with people here about one topic or another and will say so if I think it does any good.

I didn't realize there were non-shooters who came here.

iapetus
May 8, 2004, 05:55 PM
I didn't realize there were non-shooters who came here.

I'm a non-shooter, mainly on account of living in a country where almost all guns are illegal, and the rest are hard to get (legally).

I came here because I'd become interested in (and mostly converted to) the RKBA, and was looking for info on the subject.

(Which is why I mostly only post in General and L&P, although I (hope) keep things civil).

I've stuck around because of the interesting things discussed, and because THR is generally "civilised". (I was going to say "compared to many other gun discussion sites", but its actually very civil compared to many discussion boards, regardless of subject).

Wildalaska
May 8, 2004, 06:16 PM
Unless the agitators are the moderators.

Well they say that the Anti Virus comapnies are the ones writing the virii

WildwhoevertheyareAlaska

cdbeaver
May 8, 2004, 06:31 PM
Got two things to say:

Presbyterians are a pretty civil group, too.

If you don't like the things a member is posting, you can always resort to the "Ignore" button. I've used it and it does help to get pesky dirt throwers off your back.

Still and all, this is truly the best shootig forum on the internet.

Chuck Dye
May 8, 2004, 06:54 PM
Uh, oh! How to do this without failing the "Art's Grammaw Test" (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17954)...

Years ago I worked in an Aussie mining camp where, at an end-of-project dinner I was presented the "Best **** Stirrer" award. All was good fun but cooled noticibly when the only Brit on the crew pointed out that you can’t stir that stuff if there is none available to be stirred. The Brit and I survived largely by buying many rounds.

The concept stuck with me and has lead me to abort posting an embarrassing number of replies when I have realized I had risen to bait and come perilously close to getting hooked.

Think twice, proofread thrice, post once…or not at all. :D

Warren
May 8, 2004, 08:26 PM
I apologize for all my inflammatory posts.

4570Rick
May 8, 2004, 08:49 PM
Some of use have little to be happy about. Why is it necessary to be polite so you aren't offended? I don't care a witt about your sensibilities. You think you...










Wait a second, my work is done, it's still daylite, the temp is 84...What a great day.

NEVER MIND :neener:

The_Antibubba
May 9, 2004, 02:29 AM
Atek3,

If Mormons were truly civil, they would stop ringing my doorbell so early in the morning!!!


:neener: :D

Nightfall
May 10, 2004, 10:35 AM
I stick almost exclusively to Gen and L&P for two reasons:

1. Keeping up with Gen and L&P takes enough time as it is! :)

2. I love guns, I love all the technical stuff about guns, but I try to keep my mouth shut for a reason. Though I might be able to throw a few posts into Shotguns now and then, I have so very little overall experience that I'd make myself look like an idiot every time I hit 'post'. I do that just fine in Gen and L&P, thank you. :D

This probably hurts me most though. I don't learn much about guns in Gen/L&P, and reading almost exclusively about the latest infringement on this right or that, about this gov't excess or that, etc. gets rather depressing. :(

Andrew Rothman
May 10, 2004, 03:20 PM
I've noticed that those who post the most polemic and derisive posts don't seem to post in any forum but L&P and General, and often those they are in debate with (and who are maintaining the standards of The High Road) have a larger percentage of their posts in the more technical sections of THR then in L&P and General.

I shoot. I like to shoot. I own exactly one pistol.

I clean it, but I can't detail strip it.

I don't reload ammo.

I have a whopping three holsters.

And I post almost exclusively in General and L&P, although I have been known to make an appearance in S&T too.

People come here for many and varied reasons. Not being a gun collector, gunsmith, or otherwise enamored of the mechanics does not mean that I'm here to cause trouble.

I strongly advise judging people by the contents of their posts, not the locations where they post them.

yy
May 10, 2004, 03:45 PM
Some of us here are offended for very little reason. Let's review logic and set theory... (/lecturer on/)

The "stirrers" appear to post almost exclusively in General and L&P. So the stirrers are a subset of the people who post in General and L&P.

But that does not imply the converse: that those postng almost exclusively in General and L&P are "stirrers".

The original observaton was that the "stirrers" appear to have little or no interest in techncal areas of ths forum as evidenced by their lac of posts n those areas. So this suggests a general lac of expertise on the part of the "stirrers". But in no way impugne on the now-hows of the people who mostly post in General and L&P. Evidence? Some of our more respected members mostly post in General and L&P as Jim March pointed out.

(/lecturer off/)

bogie
May 10, 2004, 06:53 PM
Personally, I think we've attracted a number of folks from systems like Democratic Underground, and they're trying to forment dissent.

And it's working.

Michigander
May 10, 2004, 07:35 PM
I, for one, am a shooter. Although I do not shoot often, I do hunt every so often. I am planning on going to the range more often and to work my way up to a regular basis. When I start doing that, and begin adding to my collection of firearms, I'm sure I'll have more to ask/comment on some of the other areas of The High Road.

However, I lurked here for about a year before I signed on. I am by no means a democrat or republican.

There was a time when I more aligned with the liberal ideals, but of course I was ingnorant and uneducated about the ways of the world and the meaning of the US Constitution (public school).

Once I edumecated myself, I thought the republicans had my best interests in mind. I later learned I was wrong about that.

I consider myself a constitutional libertarian (for now).

But my support for the Second Amendment has not waivered throughout this time. I was not as strong a supporter originally because I did not realize the size of the threat against my and my fellow American's rights. The more I learned, the more I was concerned. I have been a member of the NRA for about 10 years now, and for about a year I have been a member of the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners.

As for signing up for The High Road, it was primarily for the L&P discussions. Especially the "P" part. So if one does a search of my posts, he/she will find that the vast majority of my posts are in L&P, and by no coincidence, most of them have been closed because they usually involve the political discussions of the Bush Presidency and the WOT/Iraq War issues. To me, the best discussions always get closed, but then again, they are usually the most heated and people begin attacking each other. I do not like it when people attack each other because I know the thread will be closed shortly. If anyone cares, search my posts and see how many times I attacked a person instead of an argument.

Most threads I do not post in because I agree with what has already been said and have nothing to add.

I'm sure some people chose to "ignore" my posts when I first signed-on because I dove right into the Bush/WOT/Iraq thing immediately and many people automatically believe that anyone who disagrees with the WOT, War in Iraq, Bush's foreign policy, etc. is automatically a liberal DU member. I can assure everyone that I am not that!

Please note, I agree with just about everyone in L&P when it comes to human rights, 2A, etc. It is only the Bush/WOT/Iraq thing that I disagree with. If that makes me all those things I was accused of, then so be it. But I know I am not all those things.

Also, I thought about "ignoring" some posters and decided not to. Why? I think most people have too many involuntary blinders, including myself, and I did not want to add to my blindness.

(and for those of you who have chosen to "ignore" my posts - nevermind :neener: )

Sean Smith
May 10, 2004, 09:01 PM
I think some of the more trollish newbies here missed this part of the Rules of Conduct (http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html):

Welcome to The High Road, an online discussion board dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership.

That doesn't seem to dovetail very well with, for instance, supporting the candidate with the 100% anti-gun-rights voting record (http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?inds=42), or attacking everyone who isn't that candidate... :scrutiny:

I mean, not being the outright ENEMY of the purpose of this forum leaves ALOT of room for wildly varying political discourse. Is that too much to ask? :confused:

Yes, agitators do show up and then the staff takes action.

Spamming the forum with almost nothing but cut-and-pastes of ideologically frothy articles (including by authors who oppose RKBA) doesn't constitute being an "agitator"? :uhoh:

I will say this, in the last couple months my killfile has grown more than it has in the last couple YEARS. :barf:

(P.S. that ain't a deadpool, it is from usenet slang: http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_kill.html )

Ben Shepherd
May 10, 2004, 09:31 PM
This board has more people I consider one of my "friends", than I actually hang around with in person, by far. I have learned more about firearms(all aspects) on TFL and here in 4 years than I learned in the previous 25 put together. (thank you Oleg, C.R.Sam, WESHOOT2, Jim March, Art Eatman, Dave McCracken, and literally hundreds of others). And I come from a BIG shooting family. I can only imagine what those with no outside support have gained here.

I actually like the fact that we can deviate into any area that actually concerns personal responsibility or any aspect of freedom. Sometimes it's good to be shown a particular viewpoint on something through the eyes of a non-shooter.

This board is my home away from home per se. We have so many from so many different backgrounds that we will have the occasional heated discussion. Fine. Being passionate in your convictions is an admirable trait. We just need to remember that heated is fine, uncivil is not. 'Sides if it didn't get a little heated now and again, we'd get bored, no?:D

Dex Sinister
May 10, 2004, 09:47 PM
The "stirrers" appear to post almost exclusively in General and L&P. So the stirrers are a subset of the people who post in General and L&P. But that does not imply the converse: that those posting almost exclusively in General and L&P are "stirrers".

Indeed, as Ian already pointed out, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" ("this comes after that, therefore this is caused by that" is a common fallacy.

I, for instance, own (well, my wife and I own) about 30 guns, mostly C&R rifles and pistols, we both have CCW's, both carry every day, and our last ammo order came by BBT at the "over 200lb" discount rate. :D

But I post almost exclusively in L&P, because that's where my greater interests lie. Go figure.

Dex http://home.pacbell.net/ajoule/firedevil_smiley.gif

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