Ohio CCW training - my review


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gryphon
May 8, 2004, 12:39 AM
It has been a long time since I have posted anything on the forums, but thought that I might go ahead and give everyone my impression of the CCW class offered by New Albany Shooting Range in Ohio.

The class is made up of 10 hours of class and 2 hours of range time. I took the class that was spread over 4 days.

Provided materials: NRA Basic Pistol book and a copy of the Ohio CCW law that will be provided by the Sheriff's department. They also provided all the equipment for the range session(eye/ear protection, pistols and ammo).

Day 1:
Pretty basic stuff. What is a gun, what is ammo, how to load and unload a revolver and semi-auto, rules of gun safety.

Day 2:
Started with 1 hour of lecture to cover some additional basics, then finished up with the 2 hours of range time and live fire qualifications.
We started off shooting revolvers both in single and double action mode, then went to semi-autos in double and single action modes. Each person got to shoot about 10 rounds through each. The live fire qualification was as follows: Using one of their firearms, you had to shoot 5 rounds at 25 feet and 5 rounds at 15 feet, getting all the shots in a 10 inch bullseye. They gave you a target and kept one for themselves for record keeping.
After everyone finished with the qualification, they did a ball ammo versus hollow point ammo demonstration on some water bottles.

Day 3:
We started back at the range to finish up some stuff we couldn't get to the night before - low light shooting. This is probably the best part of the class for me, at least the most enlightening. They turned all the lights in the range out and had you shoot at a target 20 feet away with iron sights, then with a tactical light, then with night sights. FYI - my HK USP is getting night sights installed. That little demo has me sold on them.
After the short range session, it was back to the classroom where they covered CCW mindset, different holsters, methods of carry.

Day 4:
Discussed legal issues and the CCW law, how and what you will need to apply for a permit. Also took the 50 question matching and true/false test.

To be honest, except for the low light shooting exercise, there wasn't anything new that I learned in the class. The instructors were excellent and kept everything interesting.

Just thought I would share this in case anyone else was wondering what they would be covering in the class.

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OH25shooter
May 8, 2004, 08:50 AM
As a member of New Albany's shooting range I inquired about the class just the other day. Apparently, the course is done in one 12 hour day. As a retired police officer I'm sure I will be totally bored. Haven't decided what to do.

Browns Fan
May 8, 2004, 09:52 AM
CCW training is not designed for just your typical THR member. Its also for the soccer moms and little old lady wearing tennis shoes, too. For some, the CCW class will probably be the first time they have fired a gun.

:uhoh:

jetman
May 8, 2004, 06:46 PM
I took my CCW training all in 1 day from a different instructor to get my Ohio CCW license. I have heard that NASR does a great job of training though... 0especially as mentioned for non-experienced shooters. I was going to take my training there but didn't want to wait as long as they had the next opening. The class I did take was all OLD stuff for me too, but at least now I'm LEGAL!! mine was the 147th issued in Frankling County and a friend of mine has #197 from Fairfield County. If you're in a hurry whatever you do DON'T go to Delaware County as they are taking 30-45 days to issue after appication. They have an open "no-appontment" policy but they take the longest. I made an appointment with Franklin County but my application was processed and approved in 2 days.

gryphon
May 8, 2004, 06:53 PM
Thanks for the info on processing times for the application.

gbelleh
May 8, 2004, 07:12 PM
gryphon,
Your class sounds more interesting than mine. We didn't do any low light shooting or anything with different sights, etc. For our qualification we had to keep 25 out of 30 rounds inside the 7 ring of a silhouette target. 18 shots from about 7 yards and 12 shots from about 15 yards.

I took the class all in one day and it was very boring. There were a few people there who had never shot before. Everyone passed the written test and the qualification without much trouble.



Hamilton Co. seems to be issuing licenses about 3 weeks after the application is turned in.

Zan
May 8, 2004, 09:11 PM
I did some research on this myself before taking the standard CCW and found out that you can take the CCW course a lot of different places and it will give you the minimum qualifications to apply for a CCW but there are other courses offered to not only qualify for a CCW but get you trained in armed security as well. The course costs about the same as a CCW course but the OPOTC Armed Private Security course is a 20 hour course that meets and exceeds the aspects of firearms training and safety given in the 12 hour course. The bonus is, not only can you apply for your CCW but you are also certified to numorous jobs. Armed private security, private investigation, armed escort and body guard, State/Local/Federal security, armored car and transit security positions are available under this certification. I figured if I’m going to fork over the $150+ dollars, I might as well get something more than just a CCW out of it. Especially when it could be a good paying job.

Do a google search for a "Private Armed Certification Course" in your area. I took mine at:
Scarlet Oaks
3254 East Kemper Road
Cincinnati, OH 45241
Phone: 513.771.8925

They also have standard CCW courses for $125. For more info on that:
http://www.greatoaks.com/pages/-2682-/

GLHF

X-out
May 8, 2004, 11:23 PM
gryphon:


Sorry if I'm piggybacking on your comment, but I've been wondering recently what one might expect at other private self-defense/concealed carry schools. Your experience sounds like it was a bore. Just what I've been fearing since I got a cert. for a "free" 2-day defensive handgun, rifle, or shotgun course at Front Sight in Vegas. I've been handgunning and hunting, &ct., for decades and giving legal advice on criminal matters for a couple of decades as well. In this excuse for a state we can't carry concealed anyway. So are such courses even worth the time for someone who's an experienced, longtime shooter but not seeking CCW cert. and doesn't really need to learn more of the legal aspects?

The shootin' part is always fun, but only 10 (!) rounds? (Talk about your premature...)

X-out
May 8, 2004, 11:33 PM
PLEASE IGNORE MY COMMENT!

(And, please, don't post that "beating a dead horse" icon or the "search is a beautiful thing" prose. I just did a search and saw all...)

Jamie B
May 9, 2004, 09:55 AM
My class was an absolute joke.
I assumed going in that it would be extremely basic, and that it would be a painful experience, and, unfortunately, I was correct.

The 10 hours of classroom instruction was quite boring. When the ex-LEO range officer was demonstrating gun handling with an 'empty' Kimger .45, he swept me 4 times with the muzzle of the weapon! If it had happened again, I would have stopped him - it was nuts.

I quickly got the impression that the "instructers" were more concerned with being cool, and trying to impress us with their backgounnds, rather that trying to teach. I walked out of the class several times to go outside and calm down with a smoke so I would not loose my temper about the poor training.

There were the 3 requsite know-it-alls who had to render useless dialog about every discussion point that was being made in the class. One of them had indicated that 'I want to get through this F***ing class so I can carry my F***ing gun'. I told my wife that night that I was more concened about these idiots causing a problem for the rest of us than I was about anything else.

The range time was also quite painful - all of our shooting was slow-fire with .22 caliber handguns. To mimimize the pain, I was able to shoot my own 22/45, but we were not able to shoot our intended carry weapons. This was probably a good thing, though, as one bonehead was going to carry his Desert Eagle .44 as a CCW weapon - it was good that he was not shooting it, since he was one of the 3 know-it-alls.

I am glad that I went throug this pain in February, when the weather was cold, so I did not have to waste the time on a weekend in the spring.

The scary part is that none of our targets were scored - if there was a minimum qualification, we were not held to it.

Jamie

444
May 9, 2004, 11:10 AM
I didn't take a CCW course in Ohio, but it is interesting to see your impressions of the classes anyway.
I took my CCW class here in Nevada quite awhile ago probably close to 10 years ago. At that time I had never been on an internet gun forum and had never taken any formal training at the gun schools. So I remember getting a lot out of it. I had owned guns and shot semi-seriously for years prior to that, but I had never considered the aspects of carrying a gun concealed and to be honest, didn't think about the self defense aspects of firearms ownership much at all. I didn't know what was legal to do, I didn't know the little tricks about concealing a handgun etc. The course I had was pretty good. They combined the legal aspects with the practial aspects. One of the best things for me was the situations presented in which someone was really being obnoxious and threatening but since they weren't presenting you with a threat of deadly force, your gun was not an option. This drove home the concept of having other, less than lethal options available. They also impressed upon us the need for a light which is something I never gave any thought to before.
We did all of our shooting with our own guns as was required by law.

I can see that now, I probably would be bored also. I have a lot more experience to draw upon. I have discussed various aspects of concealed carry on-line for years. I have been to a couple of the big gun schools where they discussed the defensive use of guns. But at the time, it was all new to me like I am sure it is to most of the people taking the classes. I grew up in Ohio and I remember hearing all the crap growing up about shooting them in the yard and dragging them in the house and all the other old wives tales that would surely land you in prison if you depended on the local "wisdom".

Jamie B
May 9, 2004, 01:19 PM
444-

Interesting comments regarding the old-wives tales - I, too, have heard them for many years.

The Ohio CCW classes are based upon the NRA Basic Pistol class, not a pure introductory / CCW class. The lack of CCW information smelled purely of legalistic CYA to eliminate liability. I strongly disagree with this approach, as the responsibility of carrying a weapon is largely avoided, which includes proper training, judgement, situational analysis, threat assessment, etc. This was a basic pistol class, period.

While they did have a lawyer in, and touched on the legal side a little, all comments were qualified by the fact that the law was new, and many areas had not yet been addressed. While this is somewhat true, there should have been more detailed CCW information in the class. Basically, it is a bare minimum at best for education, and I am afraid that there will be many folks who will put themselves at risk because 1) they will never practice their techniques and 2) they will not consider the ramifications of using their gun until after they do.

There was no discussion about carry techniques, equipment, lights, etc. There were also no discussions about over-penetration or the selection of ammunition types...nothing.

Don't mistake my comments as a scream for regulations. I firmly believe that education and the assimilation of kowledge is extremely important.

Jamie

gryphon
May 11, 2004, 12:13 AM
Well, fortunately and unfortunately they did cover over penentration. Fortunately because they discussed the ramifications of what "could" happen if your rounds go through the target and end up somewhere you didn't want it(which covers on of the basic rules - know your target and what is beyond it).
Unfortunately, they propulgated an urban legend/fallacy. The example used was, "If I lined all you up in a straight line, I could shoot a round of .45 or 9mm through all of you and probably go out the back wall". There were like 22 people in the class. I didn't say anything at the time because I just wanted to get through the class so I could apply for my permit.

Yes, they were quite vague about some aspects of the law, especially as it related to in the car carry. No one could satisfactorily answer what "in plain sight" meant as well as "on the body". Since they always leaned the conservative side on all topics, they strongly tried to rule out anything other than strong side paddle carry if you intend on being in a car or on a motorcycle.

I know that I'm going to wind up spending some time in an attorney's office, trying to get a definitive answer on some of these questions.

Jackthelad
May 11, 2004, 12:30 AM
I took my class in the Akron area through a Hunting and Fishing club that I belong to. It was held for 7 Friday nights in a row, from 6:30 to 9:30. It was based on the NRA Pistol class, and our instructor was the same man that has been teaching NRA courses for the last 40 years. While it was somewhat review for most of us, it was informative and the assistants in the class were very helpful, and down to Earth. We had to score 40 or better on the 50 ft slow fire target at 50 feet, for 5 targets to receive certification, and pass 80% or better on the final exam for certification. I got the real impression that the instructors were less motivated by trying to earn a buck, as they were by making sure every member of their class was proficient enough to pass their standards. Even though I have been shooting for 25 years, believe me, I was studying that book beforehand and trying to get targets that scored! FWIW- we also had at least one ACTIVE leo in our class, and believe me, he was hammered safety, safety safety, and corrected for touching the trigger before he was ready to fire as quickly as any of us.

zaijian
May 11, 2004, 02:53 PM
Has anybody here had experience with Front Sight Resort classes in NV? (www.frontsight.com)

The 4/5 day advanced handgun courses look like fun. I think I might do the basic 12 hr course for CCW soon, then plan a week vacation to front sight and take a course there. That, and they have free Uzi classes! :)

444
May 11, 2004, 05:59 PM
I have taken four classes at Front Sight.
The Front Sight facility is located about 30 miles from my house.
I have taken the basic defensive handgun class, the practical rifle class, the basic defensive shotgun class, and the two day handgun skill builder.

If you want to get dialed in with your concealed handgun, the four day defensive handgun course is a GREAT course. I guarantee that you will think it was well worth the money. It is possibly the perfect course for someone whose goal is CCW. You will do thousands of presentations from the holster. You will shoot the last two days from concealment. You will work on malfunction clearances, magazine changes..................... and of course accurate shot placement. During all this they will discuss equipment.
You will recieve good lectures on: Moral and Ethical Decisions Associated with the Use of Deadly Force, Handgun Modificaitons Do's and Don'ts, Color Code of Mental Awareness and Stopping Power, Tactical Shotuns and Practical Rifles, and Problems 2 and 3 Criminal and Civil Liabilities. You will also do a night shoot which includes a lecture on flashlights and the various handgun/flashlight techniques.

zaijian: Do you have a certificate for Front Sight ?

SemperFi83
May 11, 2004, 06:13 PM
I took the "Advanced Concealed Carry" class at New Albany last September in anticipationof the law passing this year. don't know if they are still offering that class or if the classes are all "Basic."

I was there yesterday and I know they have been offering 1-day, 2-day, 3-day, 4-day and weekend courses. Of course most people from this site will be bored, but the classes are designed to meet the requirements of the law.

They are vague on the car-carry portion of the law because the law itself and the Attorney General are both vague on it. Did you want them to read the minds of the legislators and give you their opinon?

zaijian
May 11, 2004, 07:57 PM
444,

The 5 Day Armed Citizen Corps class looks great - It includes the 4 day defensive handgun, adv. tact. handgun, and concealed carry class.

The only problem is coming up with $1500 and 3/4 days of vacation.

And what's a certificate do?

gryphon
May 11, 2004, 10:56 PM
Semperfi81 wrote:
They are vague on the car-carry portion of the law because the law itself and the Attorney General are both vague on it. Did you want them to read the minds of the legislators and give you their opinon?

At this point, their opinion is as good as mine. I was hoping for at least a discussion about the subject.

It's just extremely aggravating that the law seems to have been written by someone with the mentality of a 12 year old. There are so many things not covered or extremely vague to allow far to much interpretation into the law. I guess the only way to get any of these settled is to 1) amend the law or 2) if/when someone gets cited for violating one of these "laws" it will have to be determined in court.

Henry Bowman
May 12, 2004, 11:51 AM
It's just extremely aggravating that the law seems to have been written by someone with the mentality of a 12 year old.
You're giving the Ohio legislature (especially the senate) waaaaaay too much credit here. :rolleyes:

SemperFi83
May 13, 2004, 08:55 AM
I agree. I was just re-reading the law yesterday and in the portion about concealed carry its says that in an automobile a "concealed handgun must be carried in plain sight....." :rolleyes:

KevinAustin
February 19, 2013, 05:58 PM
You should consider http://www.personalccw.com for your ccw / chl class. Great instructor, he focuses on safety and the law. They cover from Cincinnati to Dayton.

def4pos8
February 19, 2013, 09:21 PM
OH25shooter!

As a retired LEO, I do not think that you are required to do the basic CCW course. It ought to be just an identity/credential check and some paperwork but you ought to be "good to go".

Of course, do check current ORC to be certain. As a non-LEO, I didn't pay much attention to that part of the lectures.

gp911
February 20, 2013, 09:33 AM
Original post is from 2004 folks. Thankfully the laws have been changed for the better since then, thanks in no small part to relentless lobbying by the Buckeye Firearms Association.

Torian
February 20, 2013, 09:50 AM
I've never taken a CCW class, and I have no intention of doing so. I've spent years shooting in the Armed Forces, in a combat zone and back here in the states, but TX wants to treat everyone the same in regards to the CCW training requirement. No thanks, FL permit here I come!

I'm not out there to be a cop, or use my weapon in anything other than a last resort to protect my life. Nor do I appreciate having to pay 100 bucks and take paid time off to exercise my Constitutional rights.

Airbrush Artist
February 20, 2013, 11:04 AM
Training and a willingness to continue to learn about firearms is a must after a CC&W Class,Ya Gotta put in the work ,I decided that long before I chose to exercise my Constitutional right to arm myself and that it would cost time and money,The most disturbing experience about my 12 hours of certification was as I looked around in the class that there were a number of people who would take The CC&W class and that would be the extent of The learning about Firearms and all it encompasses,that is frightening. I know this is Judgement on my part but I profile people, Its my day job during the summer months , and thats 1,000's of people and If I might be so prideful I've become very good at it,and I came to the conclusion that some of those people that took the CC&W Class the day I did,have no Business around any type Firearm...

rtroha
February 20, 2013, 11:39 AM
I agree. I was just re-reading the law yesterday and in the portion about concealed carry its says that in an automobile a "concealed handgun must be carried in plain sight....." :rolleyes:
You must be reading something quite old because that hasn't been the law for several years, at least for those that have a CHL.

pockets
February 20, 2013, 12:22 PM
You must be reading something quite old because that hasn't been the law for several years, at least for those that have a CHL.
Of course it is old....That post was made nearly 9 years ago on May 11, 2004!!
Most of this thread was posted in 2004 and is far outdated. It appears that KevinAustin joined THR yesterday and resurrected the 9-year-old thread to advertize his business.

Ohioans should look at current carry laws. They have changed several times over the past 9 years and are vastly improved. More good changes go into effect in March also.

That said, New Albany is still a good place to take a CCW course. But there are lots of other good places in Central Ohio also. Many are based upon the NRA Basic Pistol course.
.

tomrkba
February 20, 2013, 12:53 PM
As a member of New Albany's shooting range I inquired about the class just the other day. Apparently, the course is done in one 12 hour day. As a retired police officer I'm sure I will be totally bored. Haven't decided what to do.

There is much to be learned in basic classes, especially when new students are attending. You can take it that way or you can look for little details that will improve your tactics, shooting, awareness or other skills. You can watch the instructor's technique and learn how to teach or improve your teaching method. The best examples are when the student doesn't get it and the teacher has to explain it differently.

Or, you can sit there bored.

Russ Jackson
February 20, 2013, 01:11 PM
There is much to be learned in basic classes, especially when new students are attending. You can take it that way or you can look for little details that will improve your tactics, shooting, awareness or other skills. You can watch the instructor's technique and learn how to teach or improve your teaching method. The best examples are when the student doesn't get it and the teacher has to explain it differently.

Or, you can sit there bored.
If you are experienced with firearms you will be totally bored. I would assume that if you are totally new to guns and have never been to the range like most of the people who were in my class at Blackwing two years ago you will find it worth while. I would say that of the 25 people in the class I attended over half had no idea how to breakdown or clean the handgun they brought nor had they had any real time at a range. For them the class was helpful.

Sam1911
February 20, 2013, 01:12 PM
Of course it is old....That post was made nearly 9 years ago on May 11, 2004!!
Most of this thread was posted in 2004 and is far outdated

Indeed.

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