Tactical Driveway?


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Wolfy
May 8, 2004, 05:49 AM
To bizarre to believe:what: Just be very careful when you park the car!!!!

http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2004/05/04acaseofshellsho.html

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4570Rick
May 8, 2004, 06:16 AM
Honey...can you pick up another bag of driveway patch? Another grenade went off and little Billy keeps falling in the hole. :uhoh:

MAURICE
May 8, 2004, 07:23 AM
If these munitions have been underwater since WWI & II, do you guys think they are dangerous, or that the powder inside has degraded to the point where it cannot burn?
Curious,
Maurice

BluesBear
May 8, 2004, 07:41 AM
If the surrounding metal hasn't rusted through there is a good chance that it could still go boom.

In the case of the pineapple grenades I'd wager that the seal around the primer has failed and that the fuse and internal charge has become waterlogged

goosegunner
May 8, 2004, 07:44 AM
as long as no water have entered the inside, they will work as before maby only a bit more unstable. if water have entered the inside they will be fairly safe as long as they are wet, once the explosives get dry again they will be dangerous.

while diving I have several times found gunpowder (probably Cordite) "rods" from German artillery, that was dumped in the sea when they left in '45. and once the rods are dry they burn quite well if you try.
And these rods have been absolutely unprotected in seawater all the time. So powder sealed inside a granade could easily still be dangerous even underwater after 60+ years. A few years ago there was found a WWII naval mine, with electronic ignition, and after naval divers disarmed it they found that the battery still had power enought to set it off after more than 50 years under the sea. So old explosives are still dangerous

buttrap
May 8, 2004, 07:56 AM
not a good deal but the odds are on it not going off

Preacherman
May 8, 2004, 08:21 AM
So instead of the "pucker factor", we now have the "clam[p] factor"???

:neener:

joab
May 8, 2004, 08:34 AM
A little off topic, but a local Terminix branch was drilling into a slab for a termite treatment and caused an explosion when they hit some Det- Chord that the previous home owner had used as a guide line when installing the porch slab years before

Third_Rail
May 8, 2004, 08:37 AM
The dumb things people do with explosives, I swear. :uhoh:

MAURICE
May 8, 2004, 09:39 AM
Blues Bear, what you said about the pineapple grenades is kind of along the lines of what I was thinking.
Thank you for the clarification, gentlemen.

Warren
May 8, 2004, 03:08 PM
Given how this country is going I'm suprised that the ATF isn't arresting these driveway owners for owning unregistered munitions.

I would like to think that is a joke but after reading about what people have been arrested for by various feds it is not a joke.

kernal_panic
May 8, 2004, 03:14 PM
man stuff like this NEVER happens to me! some people have all of the luck.

LiquidTension
May 8, 2004, 05:33 PM
That's just what I was thinking, kernal. That's Murphy's law for ya. Man, how fun would it be to come across some unused det cord!

DMK
May 8, 2004, 08:37 PM
Authorities believe the rusted explosives are being dredged up by clam harvesters from the Atlantic Ocean in spots where the Army dumped surplus ordnance after World War I and World War II.Only the government should have explosives. They will act responsibly with them.


:rolleyes: :banghead:

Firethorn
May 8, 2004, 08:45 PM
Could be worse

At my last base we found a buried nuclear bomb dummy. They didn't know it was a dummy for a little while....

Nightcrawler
May 8, 2004, 09:19 PM
...Before I was in the National Guard, my unit still did a lot of their training in a nearby forested area. This area is a large state forest, and is open to the public year round.

Well...seems one year somebody overlooked one of the training mines. Now, a training mine is a replica of an anti-tank mine. It's round, like the real thing, and even can have installed a simulated fuze (for when you practice arming and disarming).

Now, training mines are blue, and have "INERT" painted on the side, but apparently the person that found the mine didn't notice that.

Long story short, the State Police and the DNR were involved, as was the County Sheriff and the state Bomb Squad. :D

Detritus
May 8, 2004, 09:39 PM
At my last base we found a buried nuclear bomb dummy. They didn't know it was a dummy for a little while....

what I'M waiting for is the anouncement that some joker has found and recovered either of the, NON-dummy devices lost...


a. off the coast of GA (near Savannah i think)

or B. the one that's in the swamp near Florence SC

last i heard the military had NOT recovered either weapon, adn there was some concern that someone with ill intentions, might try and recover teh one off Savannah (the estimate of it's location is better known and more precise than the one in SC)

Dionysusigma
May 8, 2004, 10:07 PM
Morris said he had driven over his driveway for three months before a friend helping him move railroad ties discovered a grenade.

"He told me, 'You've got a grenade in your driveway,' " Morris said. "I reached down and picked it up and said, 'Yes, that's a grenade all right.' "
:uhoh: That's not quite how I would've responded... more running would be involved.

tcsd1236
May 8, 2004, 10:43 PM
Given how this country is going I'm suprised that the ATF isn't arresting these driveway owners for owning unregistered munitions.
Its pretty obvious given the circumstances described that there is no criminal intent on these peoples part, hence no prosecution.

The_Antibubba
May 9, 2004, 01:48 AM
Kind of gives a whole new meaning to "being shelled", doesn't it? :p

theCZ
May 9, 2004, 03:12 AM
The title threw me off, I was expecting pictures of a home-made black tactical driveway with a high capacity magazine and forearm handle! :neener:

carpettbaggerr
May 9, 2004, 03:37 AM
NON-dummy devices lost...
Details?

4v50 Gary
May 9, 2004, 10:16 AM
No fun having to conduct a sweep over one's own driveway while accessing or egressing.

Warren
May 9, 2004, 02:47 PM
Its pretty obvious given the circumstances described that there is no criminal intent on these peoples part, hence no prosecution.


That hasn't stopped 'em before.

kernal_panic
May 9, 2004, 02:59 PM
Details?

he's talking about broken arrows. there are 13 of them to be exact.

Detritus
May 9, 2004, 04:50 PM
the Savannah incident was, if i recall correctly, a Safety of flight release (some sort of in-flight incident caused the crew to beleive that jettisoning the weaopn was the only way to reach base, etc.) I THINK this was a B-52 that dumped this one. the AF Sort of knows where to go find this one (a general fix was made at time of drop) but as of yet has not deemed the expenditure to do so to be worth it.
in fact back in 2002 there was a short lived fear that some OTHER entity might try and recover this one for nefarious purposes.

Florence SC, early 50's a B-47 suffered a major malfuction and managed to drop it's payload in the middle of a swamp along the SC/NC line. b/c this was an accidental release and the ensuing "***!!" reaction by the crew the location of this release is quite a bit hazier than the one off savannah.


Kernal..

13 eh? would that be ALL of the unarmed but "live" weapons that have be jettisoned in whatever circumstance? or just the ones that are still out there??

i know that there was one that was recovered off Spain, and i figured most of the rest had been recovered as well. but Savannah, Florence, and the recovered one off spain were the only one's i knew the disposition of.

pittspilot
May 9, 2004, 07:14 PM
I thought there was also a 1956 incident where a C-47 was lost with two weapons, over the Med, and has never been found.

Other then that, I think the Soviets lost more then their fair share of stuff.

goosegunner
May 10, 2004, 05:23 AM
13 eh? would that be ALL of the unarmed but "live" weapons that have be jettisoned in whatever circumstance? or just the ones that are still out there??

I would guess that the other 11 devices was lost together with the submarine they was on. And if they are under a mile of water, I think they will be safe where they are.

Red_SC
May 10, 2004, 01:28 PM
How 'bout the one that the dropped in Mars Bluff, SC? That's near Florence, too. Some guy was sitting in his house and heard a boom. It turned out a plane had accidentally dropped one. I can't remember if it hit his house or the shed behind his house, but I saw a picture of the crater. It didn't go off, naturally, but it still left an impressive hole. That story is well known to the people around here. I'd never heard about the other one that was never found. I think I might need to move.:uhoh:

Detritus
May 10, 2004, 03:11 PM
How 'bout the one that the dropped in Mars Bluff, SC?

same era, i think. But a different incident. i beleive that the planes in both incidents were stationed at Shaw AFB. and that would explain why the area around Florence would have been hit numerous times (Florence and Sumter counties neignbor each other for those who aren't familiar). and i thought the Mars Bluff incident involved some form of large but non-nuclear device..... been awhile since i read about em though.


IF the Air and Missle Museum at Flroence is still open, (sadly, last i heard it was closing :( ) the "what this this" sign for the B-47 there used to have a blurb about both incidents.

Red_SC
May 10, 2004, 04:36 PM
Something interesting I found along these lines.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/nwa/short-list.html

February 13, 1950
A B-36 Bomber drops a nuclear weapon from 8,000 ft. over the Pacific Ocean before crashing after experiencing serious mechanical difficulties on a simulated combat mission. Only the weapon's explosive material detonates. The bomb is never recovered from the ocean.

April 11, 1950
A B-29 Bomber carrying a nuclear bomb crashes into a mountain on Manzano Base near Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico. The bomb is destroyed but the accompanying nuclear capsule, which had not been inserted into bomb, remains intact.

July 27, 1956
A United States bomber crashes into a storage igloo containing three Mark 6 nuclear bombs at Lakenheath RAF base in the United Kingdom. The resulting fire damages the bombs, but fails to ignite their conventional explosive triggers.

March 10, 1957
A U.S. Air Force B-47 bomber flying from Florida to Europe with two capsules of nuclear materials for bombs fails to meet its aerial refueling plane. No traces are ever found.

May 22, 1957
A B-36 ferrying a nuclear weapon from Biggs Air Force Base, Texas to Kirtland accidentally discharges a bomb in the New Mexico desert. The high explosive material detonates, completely destroying the weapon and making a crater approximately 25 ft in diameter and 12 ft deep. Radiological survey of the area disclosed no radioactivity beyond the lip of the crater at which point the level was 0.5 milliroentgens. The nuclear capsules had not been inserted into the bombs. A nuclear detonation was not possible.

July 28, 1957
A C-124 aircraft en-route from Dover Air Force Base, Delaware, loses power in two engines and jettisons two nuclear weapons over the Atlantic ocean. The nuclear weapons were never found.

February 5, 1958
An F-86 aircraft and a B-47 Bomber collide midair on a simulated combat mission out of Homestead Air Force Base, Florida. The B-47 jettisons its nuclear weapon, which is not found and is considered irretrievably lost.

March 11, 1958
A B-47 bomber accidentally drops a nuclear weapon over Mars Bluff, South Carolina. The conventional explosive trigger detonates, leaving a crater 75 feet wide and 35 feet deep.

November 4, 1958
A B-47 catches fire on take-off and crashes, killing one crew member. The high explosive in the nuclear weapon on board explodes leaving a crater 35 feet in diameter and 6 feet deep. Nuclear materials are recovered near the crash site.

November 26, 1958
A B-47 catches fire on the ground. The single nuclear weapon on board is destroyed by fire. Contamination is limited to the immediate vicinity.

January 23, 1961
A B-52 bomber carrying two 24 megaton bombs crashes at Goldsboro, North Carolina. On one of the bombs, five of six interlocking safety devices fail, and a single switch prevents detonation. The explosion would have been 1,800 times more powerful than the bomb exploded at Hiroshima.

June 4, 1962
A nuclear warhead atop a Thor rocket booster falls into the Pacific Ocean when the booster has to be destroyed.

June 20, 1962
A second Thor rocket booster fails, and the nuclear device falls into the Pacific.

April 10, 1963
An American nuclear submarine, Thresher, sinks in the North Atlantic, killing all 129 crewmen.

December 5, 1965
A nuclear-armed airplane rolls off the aircraft carrier USS Ticonderoga and sinks in 16,000 feet of water off the coast of Japan.

January 17, 1966
A B-52 bomber carrying nuclear weapons has a midair accident while refueling and drops four nuclear weapons on Palomares, Spain. Although no nuclear explosion occurs, conventional explosions in two of the weapons scatter radioactive material over a populated area.

January 21, 1968
A B-52 bomber crashes while attempting an emergency landing at Thule Air Force Base, Greenland. The high explosive components of all four nuclear weapons aboard detonate, producing plutonium contamination over an area approximately 880,000 sq. feet.

March 8-10, 1968
A Soviet Golf-II class submarine with three nuclear tipped missiles aboard sinks 750 miles off the coast of Oahu of the Hawaiian island chain.

May 21, 1968
The American nuclear submarine Scorpion sinks in the Atlantic near the Azores, killing 99 crewmen.

May 24, 1968
An accident aboard the Soviet nuclear submarine K-27 kills five crew members. After unsuccessfully attempting to repair the submarine, the Soviets scuttle it along with its nuclear fuel near Novaya Zemlya.

January 14, 1969
A bomb is accidentally dropped on the deck of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, killing 25 and wounding 85 crewmen.

April 12, 1970
The Soviet nuclear submarine K-8 sinks in the Bay of Biscay, killing 53 crew members.

April 16, 1976
A nuclear warhead on the cruiser USS Albany is damaged (this type of incident is code-named Dull Sword).

September 8, 1977
A Soviet Delta class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine accidentally jettisons a nuclear warhead near Kamchatka in the Pacific. The bomb is recovered.

June 3, 1980
A 46-cent computer chip fails, causing the mistaken detection of a Soviet missile attack by the NORAD system. About 100 B-52 bombers were readied for take off along with the President's airborne command post before the error is detected.

September 20, 1980
A technician dropping a wrench and breaking a fuel tank causes an explosion in the silo of a Titan II Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile. The explosion blows off the 740-ton door and sends the re-entry vehicle with its 9-megaton warhead 600 feet into the air, killing one man and injuring 21 others.

April 9, 1981
The USS George Washington, a submarine carrying 160 nuclear warheads, collides with a Japanese freighter in the East China Sea.

November 2, 1981
An American Poseidon nuclear missile being winched from the submarine support ship USS Holland falls seventeen feet when the winch runs free. The automatic brakes on the winch bring it to rest just above the submarine's hull.

March 21, 1984
The aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk collides with a Soviet attack submarine. The submarine is carrying nuclear armed torpedoes and the carrier is armed with several dozen nuclear weapons.

October 3, 1986
A fire breaks out aboard a Soviet Yankee Class nuclear submarine in the Atlantic about 400 miles east of Bermuda. The submarine sinks three days later while under tow.

April 7, 1989
The Soviet nuclear submarine Komsomolets sinks 300 miles off Norway, killing 42 crewmen.

September 27, 1991
A missile misfires on a Soviet Typhoon class nuclear-powered submarine carrying several nuclear weapons.

March 20, 1993
A Russian Delta III class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine collides with the USS Grayling, a nuclear-powered attack submarine in the Barent Sea.

January 19, 1996
A French Mirage 2000-N nuclear bomber crashes in southern France after flying into a flock of birds. French officials state that there were no nuclear missiles on board when the plane went down.



Comforting, ain't it?

Red_SC
May 10, 2004, 04:38 PM
Also, about the incident in Mars Bluff:

11 March 1958
A B-47 on its way from Hunter AFB, Ga. to an overseas base Accidently Dropped an unarmed nuclear weapon into the garden of Walter Gregg & family in
MARS BLUFF, SC
The conventional explosives detonated, destroying
Greggs house and injuring 6 family members.
The blast resulted in the formation of a crater 50-70 ft
wide and 25-30 ft deep. Five other houses & a church
were also damaged; 5 months later the USAF paid
the Greggs $54,000. in compensation.

cordex
May 10, 2004, 05:01 PM
Whoa! Very interesting info, Red.

Red_SC
May 11, 2004, 09:32 AM
Hey Detritus, do you know of a link to the unrecovered weapon? I haven't been able to find one.

Detritus
May 11, 2004, 02:43 PM
had one a few years back, but the link died, so in either this last purge or the one before it i cleaned it out of my favorites as useless....

and like you i haven't seen anything since :(

in fact i think the link i had was somehow connected to the now defunct museum at Florence. and may have died along with that entity.

Detritus
May 12, 2004, 12:21 AM
found a link finnally that i THOUGHT would lead to the notation about the lost device...

seems that at the time of the last pics being taken just prior to the closing of the florence Air and Missle museum, that either the museum had removed the second sign board that was with the RB-47 (not surprising that sign was pretty ragged in 90-91 when I saw it, and the museum closed in what, 97??) but that the remaining signage that referenced the Mars Bluff incident was still there, fairly clean and well maintained, for being a piece of white painted plywood out in the elements......

and at this time, after a good 5 hours of dredging around the net i can NOT find any other up close "this is what was part of the display at florence" pics that show the other piece of signage that was with that plane when i was last there. :( :confused: nor can i find any reliable reference on-line to that release.

who knows maybe i'm chasing a ghost, but i KNOW i've seen written documentation of a LOST nuke in the area near florence, separate from the "Mars Hill incident", most likely in the swamps of Lee County. and that the info came from at least two seperate sources.

oh well,

M1911Owner
May 12, 2004, 02:59 AM
June 3, 1980
A 46-cent computer chip fails...I'm wondering about the provenance of that list. I know very little about the history of broken arrows, but I know a lot about computers in 1980 (I worked for Intel at the time). There was no way in hell that the military was using any 46-cent computer chips in or before 1980. (Or since, for that matter.) The cheapest mil-spec computer chip would have been at least three orders of magnitude higher than that. It sounds to me like someone's being melodramatic here, and making up facts to make a good story. ("For want of a nail, the war was lost;" "for want of a 46-cent computer chip, the world was almost plunged into nuclear war.") I wonder how much of the rest is made up, too?

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