[orangeninja]

How does it rate against a .357 mag or a .38 special???

[ducktapehero]

I think the 44 special is a great self defense round. Big bullets flying at moderate speeds are proven manstoppers.

[molonlabe]

excellent choice

[Standing Wolf]

I personally prefer the .44 magnum, but the .44 special is a fine, superbly accurate round for personal and home defense.

[Jim March]

There have been a few 2" barrel 44Spls made. With these, I have some concerns about not enough speed for reliable expansion. The 44Spl is a low-speed critter to start with, which is OK within limits so long as the JHP cavities are adapted to that. With a 4" or more barrel these concerns evaporate.

But there's one more caveat: very often the same guns will also be available in 45LC. Even when not "Ruger strong" and unable to cope with 45LC+P, I consider the 45LC a step up from 44Spl (but as with the 44, I still like at least 3.75" or more barrel). We have that new Gold Dot 250 for the 45LC that looks really, REALLY good on paper, with a giant JHP meant for speeds of around 825fps through about 1,000.

The 44Spl from a 3"+ is a definate step up from the 38+P, with well-chosen loads for each. (Read: a few of the best 38+Ps can be more effective than bad 44Spls.)

The 357...hmmm...well, I think good loads can leave most of the 44Spls behind, although not by THAT much. And at a cost in noise, recoil and controllability - good 44Spls may not be quite as potent as the best 357s but for indoor use might still be a better idea.

The remaining issue though is firepower: would you rather have an L-Frame sized 3" barrel 7-shooter loaded with very good 38+Ps, or the same size/weight/barrel-length gun as a five-shot 44Spl?

THAT is a tough one. Esp. since the seven-shooter can also take red-hot 357s if necessary.

And that's why the 38/357 is more popular than the 44Spl...

[James Bondrock]

A good choice, with careful ammo selection. Most .44 Spl. factory loads are loaded very mild so as not to overstress older guns (the cartridge was first introduced in 1907 or 1908). A 246-grain lead round nose bullet going 750 fps out of a five- or six-inch barrel (the original loading) will be lucky to hit 600 from a two- or three-inch barrel, which is typical of the revolvers in this caliber small enough for concealed carry. This will markedly reduce its effectiveness, though I still wouldn't want to stand in front of it! ;) There are several factory loads available with jacketed hollowpoints loaded to a higher velocity.

Of course, there are five- and six-shot .38 Spl and .357 Magnum revolvers available in about the same size envelope.

[Plinkerton]

I apologize for the attempted hijacking, but I was curious about the best defense round for a 4" 686.

Is a .357 necessarily better than the .38+p?

Just curious what the best would be.

Thanks.

[Pappy John]

I trust .44 specials. The CCI Blazers with the 200 gr Gold Dot load make 830 fps out of my 3" 696. If I remember right the 'Dots are designed to expand at 800 fps in this caliber. Good for around town.

Or I can handload some 250 gr Kieths to around the same speed for a woods-walkin' load.

[Ben Shepherd]

A 44 special is pretty close to a revolver version of 45 acp, if correct loads are used.

Plinkerton:

The 38+p means more pressure which may/may not mean higher velocity depending upon the powder selection and slug design/weight.

Example: I've shot a winchester 147 grain 38+p+ load that runs around 950 fps. Out of the same gun a 158 grain 357 load runs around 1300, and develops almost twice the energy of the 38 load.

If you want more info use the search function looking for threads on 38 specials. Specifically look for posts by Jim March, and I've posted a lot of chrono data in those threads myself. Happy hunting.

[Plinkerton]

Right. I don't mind using a .357 round for self defense, I was just curious what is the best self defense round out of a 4" barrel. Should I go for a .357 HP of some sort?

[Ben Shepherd]

If you can handle the recoil absolutely. If it's a bit much, you've got enough tube that a good 38 load will work very well.

Seriously, run a search and look for Jims posts, he's posted A TON of good 38 info, it's good reading.

[Plinkerton]

Thanks Ben. :D

[Ben Shepherd]

One more thought here:

Regardless of what caliber/load you choose, choose it based on your personal needs and function out of your gun. This means accuracy testing, chrono data(especially in marginal calibers), and at least informal penatration testing.

Just because the magazine article or box says it preforms like what you want doesn't mean it will in you specific gun. Testing is required.

[JohnK]

your thoughts on the .44 Special for self defense?

How does it rate against a .357 mag or a .38 special???

That depends on who's views you subscribe to on effectivness. Evan Marshall's stats put the 38 Special +P at a little more effective than the 44 Special (http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=0). Others belive "bigger is better" no matter what, you can always find someone to support whatever viewpoint you want.

My opinion is that something like Corbons 165gr 44 Special should be about as effective as any other caliber, including the vaunted 45 ACP and 357 Magnum, it just doesn't have the long established track record (yet).

[Blueduck]

I've got two main thoughts on it (that and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuchs ;) )

First it's not really a police or even all that popular a round anymore, so ammo companies really are not going to spend much time and money developing loads optimized for selfdefense for it.

Second is that despite that "optimazation" petals, bonded materials, hyper tech coatings, nickeled cases, fancy boxes and ad campaigns truth is regardless of what your using your really just flinging a relatively tiny piece of metal down a pipe in the hope it pokes a hole in somebody or something. If it happens to hit and damage something vital it might make them/it stop doing something, if it don't it might not. Maybe ammunition ad caimpaign writing is not my strong suit:uhoh:

[JERRY]

you put some of those cor-bon 165gr. h.p. in your .44spl snubbie..........you will be well protected. they sizzle out of a 3" rossi in the mid 1,000 f.p.s. (appx. 1050)

[sm]

I like the .44 spl.
As Ben Sheperd noted, reminds me of 45ACP.

I would like a K frame, 3" RB blued.
My old Bulldog didn't hold up. I liked the principle and idea tho'.

Low pressure rd , having to be fired in a vehicle , enclosed room...
I'd even be be content with a LWSC- HP , to "make an impression".

[James Bondrock]

I cannot comment on their reliability, but Taurus has a neat-looking snubby revolver in .45 ACP. Good defensive loads for this cartridge abound, and there are inexpensive "generic" loads available for practice, something not true of the .44 Spl.

[Gordon]

I have to carry my S&W 296 with the Corbon 165grain load(rude flash, recoil tolerable-barely) OR the Gold dot 200grain Speer load( not much flash rude recoil) because the 240grain soft lead flatnose wadcutter I want is forbotten by Idiot S&W. A POX on them for specifing bullet weight of less than 200 grain:mad:

[BluesBear]

I think enough of it that I carry one about 50% of the time now.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=831479
or
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=987780

I am very much looking forward to the new 250gr Black Hills .44 Special load developed for the new S&W Model 24-4.

[Gewehr98]

It splits the time with my Caspian Officer's ACP in .45 ACP, but the L-Frame .44 Special 696 below is either in the nightstand drawer, or on my person. Lately, I've been running the 200gr Federal LSWCHP rounds, but the 200gr Speer Gold Dots and CorBon 165's deserve a check-out in my book, too. Regardless of the load, I do not feel undergunned with the .44 Special. A retired LEO friend of mine still packs around his Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special, with the barrel bobbed to 2" and a S&W ramp front sight installed. Obviously, the round and the delivery system made an impression upon him, too. :D

http://mauser98.com/696altamontleft1.jpg

[Marshall]

I have the same gun as Gewehr98 just posted. I have no problem in trusting it to make a BG have a real bad day.

[Stainz]

My 696, with it's wide diet, is about my favorite 'plinker' - it always goes to the range. The 296 is definitely a CC piece and, in my view, those 200gr CCI Blazer .44 Special rounds with the Speer #4427 200gr Gold Dots are ideal for that snubby, and the only thing in that caliber available outside of a gunstore (Academy Sports chains: $13/50). According to Speer, the round opens by 800fps, which it eclipses - barely - from the 2.5" 296 (805fps; 840fps from my 3" 696, 870fps from my 4" 629MG, and 875fps from my 6.5" 24). The wide-mouthed/thin walled/pre-split HP's are designed for low-speeds - like the new 135gr Speer .38 Gold Dots. Folks have finally realized that a real need exists for slower speed HP's for .44 & .38 Specials. I'd always take the .44 Special over the .38 Special. Most civilian 'encounters' require 1.2 rounds, or so I have heard, so my five is fine. Proficiency in what you choose is most important. I even keep those Blazers (... and the Georgia Arms version - $16.50/50 and you get nice and new Starline .44 Special brass!) for my 629 MG in .44 Magnum.

Incidently, a friend bought that new 2.5" .45 ACP lite weight 325PD. It was for sale in the used counter at the local dealer a few weeks later - after less than a box of ball ammo and several band-aids - and some gloves. The main reason wasn't the 'hurting' - it was his inability to hit anything! Practice... Of course, like most, I am nearly a marksman with my 2" M10, due solely to practice (Cheap ammo!). Still, that 296 with those 200gr GDJHP Blazers is a better CCW for me.

Stainz

[MrPink]

I've always thought the factory "standard" loaded 44 mag was "too much" and the 44 special was "too little". I understand that factories load the 44 special on the light side for the old guns. But nowadays you see a lot of "light magnum" 30-06 rounds and such that are suposed to be used in only newer guns, so I don't quite understand why the 44 spec is "downloaded".

That being said, I like my new S&W PC 329 3" carry comp. But I don't like shooting full house mags out of it. A "Tactical Lite" loading from Proload is near perfect, thank you very much.

I've always thought the 696 is a great gun but lacking a good factory load. Big Bore without the big N-frame. Wouldn't a 396 be a great gun with a 44 spec load moving a 200 grain Gold Dot at about 950 fps be great???

[Logistar]

Hey, if it was good enough for Dirty Harry.... ;)

- and I actually tend to agree with him. Ammo selection and cost would be my only concern. (I don't reload.)

Otherwise I think it would make a great defensive round.

[mrstang01]

After a lot of research, I chose the .44 Special for my bedside gun to replace the .357 that had lived there for years. It's not as hard on the ears if you have to shoot it indoors as the higher pressure Magnum, and with the Gold Dot's, I'm confident it will anchor what I point it at.

Of course, it's the S&W 624 Lew Horton Special, not a lot bigger than the L frame's several people have posted.

[Archie]

The Charter Bulldogs and other light snubbies are very unpleasant in recoil. A four inch "N" frame is really easy to shoot.

The 246 LRN factory load (725 fps) is rather anemic. A 245 grain SWC at 900 fps is a real snot slapper. But the heavier loading is for the bigger guns.

I would like to see a 180 or 200 grain wadcutter or cup point (reverse hollowbase) bullet for the 44 Special. Check out the Lee mold 429-208-WC. At reasonable pressure and velocity, that would be a very effective projectile for self defense. The recoil should not be a major problem in the lighter guns. But it lacks the 'cool' factor of a jacketed hollow point, so it will be overlooked.

[Preacherman]

I know of three defensive shootings with the .44 Special. All were from 3" barrel revolvers (two Rossi, one Taurus), back in South Africa, and all used SWC ammo (200gr. LSWC, no HP, at about 900 fps). Two were one-shot stops, COM hits; one required a second shot for a (permanent) stop.

I've always liked the .44 Special and .45 Colt/.45 ACP as "stopping" rounds, especially with SWC loads. They've been doing the job for about 100 years or more, and there have been very few complaints about their performance - at least from the shooter's point of view! Hollow-points are nice, to be sure, but a half-inch hole through someone's torso is a pretty stout argument all on its own...

[Jim March]

You're right, if you have to do without hollowpoints, a 44/45 SWC "Keith type" load does work.

I prefer a good hollowpoint but if those aren't available...

[Tamara]

I must think it's okay, or I wouldn't be carrying a 296 stuffed with Federal 200gr LSWC-HP's around in my purse all day. :uhoh:

[The Rabbi]

In general it seems that big fat slow moving bullets create more damage than thin zippy bullets (all you .357SIG fans take note). I love the .44SP--low recoil and easy to shoot. As far as expansion: at .44 caliber, who cares? THe usual formula, as I understand it, is that the bullet will expand half again as much. Is a .66 caliber wound going to be that much more lethal than a .44? I doubt it.
I like someone's comment about it being the revolver equivalent of the .45acp. I wish there were more guns chambered in it and more ammo available.

[JERRY]

id trade my g30 for that gun Tamara is carrying.

[orangeninja]

Thanks guys. I was actually considering the Bulldog by Charter.

[JERRY]

had 2 charter arms bulldogs in the 80's. nice concept, did not hold up well to "normal" shooting.

unless theyve learned to make them better, id go with a taurus "mini" .44spl.

[Tamara]

In any lightweight K/L-frame size .44 Spl, shun loads with bullet weights over 200gr. They seem to deliver an unreasonable pounding to the littler guns.

[TechBrute]

Alduro,

What, did Sig start making .44spl guns? :D

T

[Nightcrawler]

Check out Buffalo Bore's (http://www.buffalobore.com) two .44 Special offerings (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#44spl). One is a 180 grain JHP at 1150 feet per second. The other is a 255 grain Keith-type SWC at 1000 feet per second (big game load).

They're VERY pricey, but Buffalo Bore makes top notch ammunition. And, if you don't handload, and want a high power, low-pressure round for your .44 Special, there you go.

[Poohgyrr]

Specials are just that: Special

Here should be the new Smith .44 Special

:D

[ivan]

per la mia 629 il tamburo è cosi....


1 44 magnum (24,0 gr winchester 296) (240 gr)
2 44 magnum (10,5 gr vihtavuori340) (240 gr)
3 44 magnum (10,5 gr vihtavuori340) (240 gr)
4 44 magnum (25,7 gr winchester 296) (240 gr)
5 44 magnum (25,7 gr winchester 296) (240 gr)
6 44 magnum (25,7 gr winchester 296) (240 gr)

:evil:

[BluesBear]

Ok Ivan, just what does that have to do with carrying/using a .44 Special for self defense?