[David]

In Arizona, they may have a good idea on how to start a citizens' border patrol.

Perhaps all states should consider this type of citizen volunteer?

It's worth a read!

Here is the link:

http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2003/02/03/daily51.html

I welcome your opinions.:scrutiny:

[Kahr carrier]

Sounds good except for the NO POLICE POWERS part.:banghead:

[schild]

It already exists. Send them a contribution, they deserve our support.

www.americanpatrol.com

[ahenry]

The concept is just fine and I’m not about to stand in their way, in fact I’d even support the legislation. The legislation isn’t necessary as everything it would “allow” is already legal but it never hurts to explicitly state that fact. That said I’d encourage you look carefully at the existing organizations. A man is known by the company he keeps...

[AZTOY]

In Arizona, they may have a good idea on how to start a citizens' border patrol

We have 3 groups patroling the border.:D

http://www.civilhomelanddefense.us/index.htm

http://www.ranchrescue.com/arizona.htm

http://www.americanpatrol.com/

I would volunteer to help if it was a legal state run program and overseen by the Department of Public Safety.:neener:

[Spackler]

Good idea. I will begin patrolling the Mason-Dixon line immediately.

[Stephen Ewing]

Spackler,

You're on the wrong side. :neener:

Steve

[shermacman]

OK, I got the camo on, grease paint applied, guns are clean and loaded. I am off to patrol the Rhode Island border. It is just a few miles south of here, those people are just plain weird down there and I don't like the looks of 'em. I figure if I bag a few of them I'll make the local papers!

[Ron L]

We need to start one in Detroit too. Can never be too careful. Maybe we could use it to blockade those damned trucks. We've already got enough Canadian trash in Michigan. :cuss: (residents will understand)

[Selfdfenz]

Sounds like a great idea.
Bet the assorted BGs, illegals,dope runners and terrorists would be a darn site more fearful of these fellows that would they the BP.

It will never happen because there is no way the feds what a legit group sitting on the border making actual counts on the true numbers and kinds of people coming into the country let alone returning their fire.
No way, no how we'll live to see this.
The feds will open up a giant can CYA on this one and kep it from happening.
S-

PS- I sure wished I turned out to be wrong about this and it actually did happen.

[Uncle Ethan]

I was raised in Tucson, but I'm stuck in Kalifornia with the crazies. Frankly, you good people in AZ ought to have a patrol to keep out people from California. Just as bad as from Mexico.:uhoh: :D

[grampster]

Regarding Detroit: We need to put a blockade on the western city limit to stop the money we send to Lansing from going any further east. (Just a friendly W. Michigan dig, Ron L.):neener: :D

[MountainPeak]

Anybody surrounding MA?

[bpisler]

No need for the state goverment to be part of it,that's a good way to screw thingd up.As long as the 3 groups that do help patrol the border do well i say leave them alone or go help them keep arizona safe.

[Diesle]

Ummm, hi police, I saw 10 Mexicans crossing the border about a half hour ago. Ya, they went somewhere. Where...? Hmmmm, dont know.... Looks like they were headed north...... Alright bye....

[MountainPeak]

Diesle, for years I've been saying we need to do something about the illegal Mexicans crossing the Canadian border into MN. Glad to see you have your eyes on the problem!!:rolleyes: Are you sure it was north?

[Standing Wolf]

I predict government will get much more excited about citizens patrolling the borders than the millions of illegal aliens who stream across the borders to infect our nation.

[Uncle Ethan]

You have already been proved correct, Standing- the outcry in the Tucson press and the reactions of the Feds is far and away greater than the reaction to the Illegals.

[DeltaElite]

Bahhhhhhhh, silly people, the CIA imports more drugs than mules on the border do.
At least they did when Reagan was in charge. :D

[bad_dad_brad]

The heck with all of that. Let's just conquer Mexico, like we should have in 1848. They will be better off. We will be better off. And while we are at it, let's include Canada too. Arnold really blew it at Montreal.

The United States of North America. USNA. Sort of has a nice ring to it.

Actually, I am more serious than silly.

[Diesle]

Actually, I am more serious than silly.

We'll be the judge of that... : 0


Diesle

[TarpleyG]

Who's going to patrol the border here in Florida??? We have about as big a problem as the southwest does. Also, who will patrol the border of Canada. We can't have canucks coming down here. Don't you know that.

GT

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

bad_dad_brad:

If we conquer Mexico, we inherit all of it's ills: Massive poverty. Rampant corruption. Cluttered, disorganized infrastructure. The single most polluted city on the planet. And presumably an obligation to try and FIX all that.

It's a third-world pesthole. Let 'em have it. When it finally collapses imto complete anarchy, we can ship all the liberals down there to give them something to do. Otherwise, once we made it part of our realm, with all the attendant priviliges of free movement, all the mexicans would pour up here in droves, bringing with them a culture I've had enough of, thanks.

Actually, that's not such a bad idea. Send the people who love to control lives to the lives that seem to actually need controlling. Liberals LOVE crooks, cronyism, and corruption! Then we set the place up to start exctracting its resources and sending 'em here. Hmmm...

[foghornl]

OK, let's send a few liberals down there

Ted Kennedy in charge of Driver's License Division.

Di Fineswine in charge of Fireams Education (how to sweep a crowd with AK's)

Red "Grey-Out" Davis as Energy Commissioner.

******* Klintoon for Public Health & Insurance Komisar.

Anyone I missed?

[hammer4nc]

Seems the federal agencies that have anything to do with illegals, use it as leverage for increasing their own budgets/power; i.e., empire building. Think about how many pencil pushers are feeding off this trough!

Rather than coming up with creative solutions that actually solve the problem, they cite endless bureaucratic rules that prevent them from taking effective action. Maybe some aztlan sympathizers, working their agenda within the system? Oh yes.

The private border patrollers have upset a lot of these entrenched interests. Just look how quick they've been the target of personal attacks (even on this board, which I find hard to understand). And, regardless of their success/failure in reducing the swarms, they've done more to publicize the issue (outside border regions), than anyone else in recent times. Exposing government bungling is Baaaaaad!

IMO, the efforts of the private patrollers seem to be based on the best traditions of volunteering for homeland defense. Institutionalizing it, as proposed by the AZ legislative proposal, seems to be aimed at weighing it down, maybe even dooming it to failure, along with the rest of the "official" solutions so far.

Oh by the way, don't the private patrol organizations have the support of the rank & file border patrol agents? But seem to be villified by USBP management? What does that say?

[ahenry]

Oh by the way, don't the private patrol organizations have the support of the rank & file border patrol agents? But seem to be villified by USBP management? What does that say? Well I’ll go ahead and make a broad statement that I know can be incorrect when applied to specifics but; yes to the first question and no to the second. As to the last one, I dunno, whats it tell you?

[hammer4nc]

Here are the data points I'm working from: apparently the private border patrol groups have among their members former USBP agents; seem to be working closely with current USBP units (phone and radio communications).

Ahenry, your comewhat couched criticism of of my question is well taken...villified is perhaps too strong a term. However, I'd think that Mario Villarreal would welcome volunteer support with open arms. Instead, we hear "no comment" from USBP management on this issue, along with a veiled caution against people "taking matters into their own hands"... Not quite endorsing the concept, eh? What am I missing?

Villareal won't be the first career bureaucrat playing the political game, instead of creatively using volunteer support toward a common goal. Coronado National park welcomes and organizes private volunteers to pick up trash left by illegals on their land (they can't "afford" to pick it up on their budget); yet selectively prosecutes volunteers who seek to discourage illegal crossing. I sense a logical disconnect here...

ahenry said:
That said I’d encourage you look carefully at the existing organizations. A man is known by the company he keeps...

At risk of reading between the lines, the implication is that the organizations members' are somehow suspect. Ahenry, if you have some inside information in this regard, please share it...otherwise, statements of the principles are taken at face value. In this case, the private organizations seem to make a pretty good case. Although I'd listen to opposing views, if expressed directly, rather than through innuendo.

[ahenry]

I'd think that Mario Villarreal would welcome volunteer support with open arms. Instead, we hear "no comment" from USBP management on this issue, along with a veiled caution against people "taking matters into their own hands"... Not quite endorsing the concept, eh? What am I missing?
When has any management of any law enforcement organization welcomed volunteer support (of this nature) with open arms? At best you get encouragement for things like “ride-alongs” or toleration for neighborhood watch programs. Both those programs are vastly different than what these border groups are doing. I suspect that you will never get some spokesman for a PD or other form of LE to come right out and say that they are overjoyed for “regular Joe Blow’s” to actively search out evil-doers and detain them, no matter what their private views are. Besides that, how many people that are “USBP management” have you talked to, or heard pontificate about this? You are basing your view of an organization that has roughly 10,000 members on what one national spokesman obliquely implies?! I suppose you’re free to do so, but you really do yourself a disservice.

Coronado National park welcomes and organizes private volunteers to pick up trash left by illegals on their land (they can't "afford" to pick it up on their budget); yet selectively prosecutes volunteers who seek to discourage illegal crossing. I sense a logical disconnect here. No, what you see is one park ranger that “apparently” decided to do a little of her own sort of vigilante work. Have you asked other park rangers what they though of the action? Have you asked any BP agents? Have you asked anybody at all, or just read Simcox’s account of the incident and used it to justify your views?

At risk of reading between the lines, the implication is that the organizations members' are somehow suspect...Although I'd listen to opposing views, if expressed directly, rather than through innuendo. I’m not trying to be obscure at all. I think that for the most part the general membership of these groups is made up of fine upstanding members of society. I also think that there are several people “at the top” of some of the organizations that do their membership a disservice and are in fact a blight to their objective. As I said, if say my younger brother asked me what I thought of his joining some of the organizations, I would caution him against it. Like it or not, the leadership of these groups are going to become very well known and if I wanted to participate in one of these groups, I'd make sure my leaders were men that could stand up to public scrutiny. A man’s gotta choose who he’s gonna tie his name to, and I wouldn’t tie my name to some of these groups (even though I think their objectives are worthwhile).

[Sergeant Bob]

Ron L
We've already got enough Canadian trash in Michigan. (residents will understand)
I'd have been happy if they only stopped the trash truck she rode in on!!:D

[Ted Bell]

I've been in touch with my good friend Vice-Admiral Jay Santos over at the Citizen's Auxiliary Patrol. He and Major Elvis Newton would be glad to assist with a Citizen's Border Patrol. Just takin' a peek over the shoulder of the Border Patrol. ;)

[David]

Based on what have read, these "citizen patrols" just seem to be good US Citizens trying to do the right thing!:cool:


Here is a link to an article about this topic:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-immi10.html

[clem]

For those of you who want to REALLY find out what is going on in Southern Arizona, check out this:

http://www.co.pima.az.us/legaldef/ld.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/derechoshumanos.html

http://www.americanpatrol.com/MECHA/MEChAindex.html