"No weapons or firearms allowed" sign


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Oleg Volk
May 9, 2004, 03:34 AM
Any place in Tennessee which sells alcohol is off-limits to carry:
It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57-3-101(a)(1)(A),. or beer as defined in 57-6-102(1) , are served for on premises consumption.

Some places go further and try to make their customers extra-unwelcome. Today, I arrived to one such place to meet an acquaintance, having asked beforehand if some issue existed at the place. Ended up turning around and going home.

Such signs correlate to a history of violence at the venue. Moreover, one look at the event (concert) convinced me that I wanted to be nowhere near it. So, in a way, those stupid signs are a hint that the place isn't worth visiting in any case. Even funnier are the band posters right next to the sign...they show guns...and I see the words SWAT botttom right.
http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/noweapons.jpg
I decided not to even waste my time writing to the owners, because legally their hands are tied in regard to firearms. Why they dislike other weapons is anybody's guess...

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4570Rick
May 9, 2004, 03:41 AM
:barf:

sm
May 9, 2004, 03:43 AM
Interesting Photo. Says a lot the more one studies it. Not a place I'd want to enter either.
What came to mind..

"Unwlelcomed" invites "unwanted" patrons.

Oleg Volk
May 9, 2004, 03:57 AM
Funnier yet, they have the "fish skeleton" Safe Place sign in another window...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=987622

Oleg Volk
May 9, 2004, 04:09 AM
For those who want, here's the full shot of the front door. Band names like "7th victim" and "SWAT punk rock" are just so ironic in the context!

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
May 9, 2004, 04:21 AM
Geez.

Like I've posted before, our coffeehouse had a sign that welcomed CHL carriers. We'd have 'Show-N-Tell' sessions some mornings.

Nobody raised an eyebrow when my wife would pull out the short Mossy pump from under the cash register when she took the bank bag to her office.

Most of the time it was an armed camp, with more folks inside carrying (discretely) than not. Never had a problem and we had bands some weekends that sound a lot like the type that may be playing in this venue Oleg has displayed.

We wanted to get one of the "Safe Place" signs for the joint, but the local constabulary was out of them, having put them up at the fire stations and convenience stores and liquor stores before we requested one.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Oleg Volk
May 9, 2004, 04:37 AM
I added a post to their web forum, just in case they actually want customer feedback.
http://themuse.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1084092640&start=0

Old Fuff
May 9, 2004, 11:02 AM
You left, and I would do the same. While they have posted a sign they can't enforce its provisions. Concealed weapons are usually just that, in other words hidden. Unless they have a security set-up such as is seen in airports, concealed weapons won’t be detected.

So those who are carrying illegally will likely enter, while those who are legally armed likely will not. These “concerts” are notorious for drugs, excessive drinking and violence. I would prefer to avoid all three.

4v50 Gary
May 9, 2004, 11:08 AM
Establishments like that don't need my patronizing. Thankfully home is comfortable and there's still a stack of books left to read.

Kingson
May 9, 2004, 01:13 PM
You need to make up some bumper sticker that say "unarmed victims inside" and stick them below the no firearms sign. See how they like the truth.:evil:

Barbara
May 9, 2004, 01:58 PM
This cartoon is posted at work:

"Our new policy forbids the use of weapons or any violence in the workplace."
"Umm... what was the policy before this?"
"I'm not sure... maybe if you had a permit and it was in season."
-Dilbert

sm
May 9, 2004, 02:54 PM
Gee, "I are getting old". At least the Rock-n-Roll bands actually had "some" names that made sense that I grew up with :D
Dang whipppersnappers [ did I type that] :)

Is "Hidden in Plain Site" a band or what? I thought that was interesting.
I see a bunch of stickers below the SWAT Oleg mentioned. Makes me wonder if they just "collect" stuff and display. Oleg one of your works as a small poster send anon might get put up...they probably wouldn't get it or understand it...be kinda funny tho'.

In AR proper signage has to be displayed. That one wouldn't hold water here. If the place makes most monies off food not booze and has a sign like that and for whatever reason I had a need to enter [ can't think of why] I could legally enter concealed.

I frequented some really "unique" places in my younger days- still do. Some little old Mom&Pop joints with great food, Bookstores , and the like.

Now the tables dont' match, most don't sell booze...unless well nevermind...Mom & Pop might have long hair and anti -estabishment appearance. Probably and most likely a Shotgun under the counter, handguns on persons concealed. Signage is stuff like...

" We shoot every third sales rep - 2nd one just left" .
Various RKBA , Constitutional , BoR type stuff. Keeps the riff-raff [ blissninnies ] out. :)

Still think we need to send a Poster anon and see if it gets displayed.

Zundfolge
May 9, 2004, 03:40 PM
Barbara, what is the date on that cartoon?

All the Dilbert toons are archived on their web site (http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/) ... I gotta print that one out:)

Standing Wolf
May 9, 2004, 05:04 PM
Looks like a dive to me.

Tom Servo
May 9, 2004, 05:39 PM
Oleg, I'm not sure what Nashville's like, but I had a very similar situation (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80058) here in Atlanta that turned out okay with a bit of diplomacy and some open-mindedness on the part of the proprietor. Sometimes, people are under the illusion that those signs make criminals think, "Oh, well, I WAS going to rob this place with my stolen gun and perhaps shoot witnesses, but they've got a SIGN! Better go hit the gun shop instead!"

DMK
May 9, 2004, 08:18 PM
No Weapons or Firearms on Premises! The sign doesn't say that firearms are not allowed. It says that they don't have any handy.

I see it as a plea. They need guns. Help a brother out man! :neener:

P95Carry
May 9, 2004, 08:43 PM
The sign doesn't say that firearms are not allowed. It says that they don't have any handy. DMK ...... EXCELLENT point Sir!

They omitted to included the word ''allowed'' ..... or ''permitted'' ...... indeed taking that at face value ...... I am with you all the way!!:p

Oleg .... almost for sure ...... best avoided!

Oh and ... inappropriate use of the word ''safe'' on the sign ... IMO!

T.Stahl
May 10, 2004, 12:16 PM
Hägar's or Horek's approach:

bogie
May 10, 2004, 12:33 PM
Now, if you're gonna hold a place up...

(not sayin' you're gonna, but hey...)

Would you pick a coffee house full of nice folks who know what's good for you, or would you look for the nearest donut shop?

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
May 10, 2004, 12:45 PM
Would you pick a coffee house full of nice folks who know what's good for you, or would you look for the nearest donut shop?

It wouldn't have been my coffeehouse.

However, we would know what was good for anyone who tried.

Regards,
Rabbit.

Dr.Rob
May 10, 2004, 02:54 PM
You pick where you go.

We haven't seen signs like that in Denver yet... even after the re-vamping of our CCW rules... however you CAN pack where booze is sold.. you just don't want to get drunk while CCWing.

And PS: due to my poor level of public education that sign is declaring there are no weapons or firearms on the premises. You won't get shot robbing the place.

tok
May 10, 2004, 06:27 PM
Even if the No Weapons sign wasn't there, the butt with the Groucho disguise would still have been enough to scare me away! :D

J.J.
May 11, 2004, 02:28 AM
Ya know Oleg maybe you should one day drop in and ask if the poster to the right does violate the rules... it doesn't specify that the firearm in question has to be real...on the sign



It shows how educated some people are...

Oleg Volk
May 11, 2004, 02:31 AM
According to my acquaintance, they have had a skinhead gang pommel some of the other participants outside, and the sign was a reaction to that and to some other people bringing in improvised weapons. Basically, the owners don't want to call the cops and so try to shift the burden of enforcement of peace to the outside. No wonder I had bad vibes about entering!

J.J.
May 11, 2004, 02:33 AM
So why wouldn't you want to call the cops.. Loose a bunch of good customers??

and also.. so when the fight breaks out inside the innocent bystanders are no unable to protect themselves...

WOW that is the best plan I have ever heard.

Oleg Volk
May 11, 2004, 02:38 AM
Not sure what the logic is, but even with a 1911 and a Garand I had with me, I had no desire to loiter one moment more than necessary. I can only watch so many directions at once, and getting into firefights with trash is a lose-lose proposition. Can't imagine how my acquaintance could enjoy the venue after being previously threatned by the abovementioned skinheads for witnessing one of the beatings.

Smokey Joe
May 11, 2004, 05:05 PM
Never seen that "Safe Place" sticker before. On viewing it, my first reaction was, the adult silhouette is touching the child silhouette inappropriately. Wonder what sort of pervert thought up that sign?

Kungfu/MUSE
May 20, 2004, 07:44 PM
This is the owner of The M.U.S.E./Kung Fu Coffee. I would like to start off my resonse by saying that we DO NOT have a history of violence at this venue. A lot of people are not aware of state/locals laws so we felt the need to post a sign on the door to let people know that firearms/weapons were not allowed. We do admit that the sign should have been more proper and we are in the process of securing such a sign. I also do not see how any of the music we (or private promoters) book have anything to do with such a sign. As I said, there is not a history of violence and we take every precaution possible to make sure that it stays this way. I do not understand what was meant by us having a "fish skeleton" safe place sign. We do have a Safe Place sign as this place has been designated as such. We help Nashville by providing a safe environment for kids and adults to listen to the music they like/request and socialize in a friendly environment. I would also like to note that we do not name the bands that play at this venue, we only book them. If you guys have nothing better to do than sit around complaining about a venue you have never been to (or given a chance) and bands that you have never heard, then we don't need you at our establishment. Please use some common sense/respect and try to see this from a our perspective.
-Logan
P.S. I do own a gun.

Oleg Volk
May 20, 2004, 08:03 PM
Welcome to THR.

El Hombre
May 20, 2004, 08:09 PM
P.S. I do own a gun.

That's nice.
Do you bring it in your nightclub?



I don't ask to be a smart aleck. I just find it interesting that people that try to disarm the general public usually are armed or have armed security themselves. I find this double standard mentality a little confusing. What gives you more of a right to safety than the rest of us?

Why would you not want to welcome a leaglly carring citizen (who has undergone and passed a criminal background check) into your establishment? If it were me, I'd rather have a whole room full of patrons who had passed such a check rather than several with"unknown" histories.
Anyhow, thanks for posting, I'm sure we would all be interested in yor viewpoint.

The Rabbi
May 20, 2004, 08:20 PM
I like DMK's response. The sign really didnt make much sense and in any case does not conform to TN standards (which is the gun in the red circle with slash). OTOH, as Oleg points out TN law forbids carry into any establishment that serves alcohol to be consumed on premises. (NOTE TO THR MEMBERS IN TN: there have been several attempts to change this to something more reasonable. Write your legislator!).
I have no idea where this place is. From the looks of it I wouldnt mind keeping things that way. I thought you had a better class of friends, Oleg.

ExtremeDooty
May 20, 2004, 08:53 PM
If you guys have nothing better to do than sit around complaining about a venue you have never been to (or given a chance) and bands that you have never heard, then we don't need you at our establishment. Please use some common sense/respect and try to see this from a our perspective

I respect your right to post this sign in your place of business, but this discussion isn't about your business per se. It's about the sign and the lack of common sense and logic required to post such a sign.

All of us with a concealed weapon permit have had to prove that we are honest people and have attended at least a minimum of training courses to acquire the permit. We are the "Good Guys."

When I see a "No Guns" sign, I am insulted because, even though I've had to prove I'm an honest person, you have decided that I can't be trusted in your business. When I see a sign like that I am not about to "give your venue a chance." You've already told me that I'm not welcome.

However, if I were an armed criminal, I am most certainly more likely to give your place "a chance" because I know that when I try to rob you, not only are you likely to be an easy target, no armed citizen will sneak up behind me and put a gun to my head.

You ask us to see this from your perspective and to use commom sense. Most us here have thought this through many times, and it's very likely that most of us would risk our lives to save yours if we were allowed in your place. It is very clear to us who is lacking in common sense as your argument clearly defies logic and shows a definite lack of clear thinking.

I apologize to all members of this board for the use of inclusive pronouns. I can only speak for myself and not for all other members.

Good guys is a generic term which includes women with permits.

sully
May 25, 2004, 11:01 PM
Oleg,

Is this sometype of music store, or concert venue? I wonder if I could play bagpipes there???

Stay Safe,
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
Chief Instructor
www.thedefensiveedge.com

sensop
May 26, 2004, 09:15 AM
Any place in Tennessee which sells alcohol is off-limits to carry:

quote:It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57-3-101(a)(1)(A),. or beer as defined in 57-6-102(1) , are served for on premises consumption.

I skimmed through this thread kinda fast looking for a particular response and didn't see it. You will note that the quote inside the quote above specifies that firearms are not permitted in a building open to the public where liquor, etc., is sold for consumption on the premises. That does not mean that any place that sells alcohol is off-limits to carry. An example would be a liquor store or a convenience store that sells beer and wine, but where statute licensing actually prohibits consumption on the premises. Georgia is exactly the same.

You can carry into a liquor store but not a restaurant that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises. We in Georgia have been trying to get that changed for years so that the prohibition only applys to "bars", i.e., establishments that derive 50% or more from their sales volume from alcohol. If we succeed, legally licensed citizens could carry in a restaurant where you might be with your family and friends. It doesn't necessarily mean that if you are carrying you can or should drink.

The antis call this whole thing a slippery slope, but an after hours robbery/ multiple rape in a Macon Rio Bravo restaurant a few years back really added some fuel to this issue.

The Rabbi
May 27, 2004, 10:38 PM
I'm not an expert but this is my understanding

Originally the law read any place where alcohol was sold. That means Wal-Mart, 7-11 etc. Several eyars ago saner heads prevaled and it was changed to "consumed" so it applies only to clubs and restaurants etc. Now there has been a move to change it to where carry is allowed anyplace that derives less than 50% of its revenue from alcohol, i.e. bars. We have had the usual predictions of Dodge city, esp from one incredibly stupid legislator from, yup, Memphis.

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