molina 45 problem


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outdoorman63
May 10, 2004, 02:05 PM
okay i have a ballester molina 45..and it would not feed..so i polished the ramp a little and it still wont feed..so i have another one here and i slowly started replacing parts til i could find what it was...well it was the slide...to me it looks like the extractor on the bad slide is out further than on the good slide..meaning it doesnt sit inside the little area cut out in the slide for it...could it be the problem...if it is bent could that be it? i guess i could take the extractor out of th eother and see...what do u all think..i am new to gunsmithing but am really enjoying it....hope someoen can help

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Dave Sample
May 10, 2004, 02:35 PM
I will leave this one for the Tuner. Failure to feed is a combination of problems involving feed ramp, barrel throat, extractor tension, breechface, magazine feed lips, magazine spring and a few more. Good luck!

outdoorman63
May 10, 2004, 05:02 PM
has something to do with the extractor

1911Tuner
May 11, 2004, 08:13 AM
Failure to feed comes in a few different flavors. Try to describe exactly what happens and when. (Technically, it's called a failure to feed when
the round doesn't enter the chamber. If the round enters the chamber
and stops, the term is more accurately "Failure to Go to/Return to Battery.")

Top round? Last round? At random throughout the magazine?

Does the round enter the chamber at all...or does it hang up before it gets there?

Nose-diving into the feed ramp or hanging up on the junction of ramp and throat?

Being pretty much a specialist and not familiar with the Ballister Molina, I can only give generic suggestions that apply to about any autopistol.
Jim Keenan is a much more generalized pistolsmith, and can probably
put his finger on the problem.

MOST feeding malfunctions are magazine related, but they can also be caused by the extractor, ammunition, or the recoil spring.

Unless the magazine is obviously damaged, MOST magazine-related malfunctions are caused by a weak magazine spring. A smaller
percentage are caused by a damaged follower or incorrect angle.

MOST extraction/ejection malfunctions are extractor related, but can also be
traced to the ammunition or recoil spring.

Polishing the ramp and throat can hurt more than it helps if it's done incorrectly. As long as the ramp and throat angles/locations are in-spec,
most need very little in the way of polishing. Overdoing it can change critical angles and dimensions. Go easy with the Dremel. Best to polish
by hand with fine wet or dty paper and limit it to smoothing rough toolmarks instead of trying to remove them completely.

Standin' by...

Pagin' Dr. Keenan! Pagin' Dr. Jim Keenan!

outdoorman63
May 11, 2004, 10:36 AM
well it will enter the barrel til just past where the bullet ends and then jams..every time...so i used my good gun switching out parts til i switched out slides and low and behold it would feed...so i pulled the extractor out and put it in the gun...it works fine...but only with steel cased ammo..if i try any brass ammo it wont feed.....so i put the old extractor into my good gun and it did the same it jammed up every time..so i have it narrowed down to the extractor ..i think..lol but why only steel cased ammo why wont it feed brass..i dont get it...i took the feed ramp and the end of the barrel and hit it lightly with some 600 sand paper just in case it had a burr or something or maybe some parkerizing on it....i am ordering extractors

1911Tuner
May 11, 2004, 11:12 AM
Sounds like it's extractor related.

If by "Steel Cased Ammo" you mean Wolf...it could be because Wolf's rim
diameters are a little undersized at .463-.465 inch on average. Nominal is
.473 +/- .003. A smaller rim effectively reduces extractor tension...and
vice-versa.

Luck!

1911(Still waitin' for Dr. Keenan to step in)Tuner

outdoorman63
May 11, 2004, 11:59 AM
it is wolf that will feed...so then extractor replacement in both wouldnt hurt then probably

1911Tuner
May 11, 2004, 08:20 PM
it is wolf that will feed...so then extractor replacement in both wouldnt hurt then probably.

That's where I'd start.

Luck!

Tuner

Dave Sample
May 12, 2004, 09:09 PM
These guns were not built to feed and fire 45 ACP ammo. They were built for 11.25mm ammo. I do not think it's the extractor. I think it's the breechface. I think it is the curved part of the breechface across from the extractor and I think that curved part needs to be made wider. Tuner is right about the rim diameter. Keep us posted.

outdoorman63
May 12, 2004, 09:58 PM
everything i have read says 45..the other 1 i have functions flawlessly..the one functions correctly in its own slide...the other one is the problem....have never heard anything about the argentine guns not being 45 acp...anyone else know anything on this..since the colt barrels are interchangeable and so are the mags

BluesBear
May 13, 2004, 10:59 AM
Bubba RumDum kerryspake;
These guns were not built to feed and fire 45 ACP ammo. They were built for 11.25mm ammo.
11.25 IS .45ACP Just ask the Norwegians. They were loading it a dozen years or so before the Argentines.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=997384
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=997379
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=997389
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=997410

Dave Sample
May 13, 2004, 12:47 PM
Gotcha!

outdoorman63
May 13, 2004, 03:17 PM
see if i wasnt old i would of caught the metric conversion...lol but in high school we were still doing 2 plus 2 not fractions metric etc...thanks....

now i just have to find parts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jim K
May 13, 2004, 10:24 PM
It sounds like either the lower inside of the extractor behind the hook, or the hook itself may be sharp and digging into the brass case, not allowing it to rise up at the rear. Since the steel case is harder, it feeds OK.

Check out the bum extractor and use a stone or a small file as appropriate.

Yep, 11.25mm and 11.43mm are other names for the .45 caliber; the first is the bore diameter, the second the groove diameter.

Jim

outdoorman63
May 14, 2004, 03:55 PM
will pull them apart again and do some light stone work on them and see what happens...i appreciate u guys all so much..thanks

outdoorman63
May 19, 2004, 04:45 PM
is the extractor for sure can watch it hang up...tried stoning it a little but didnt help..and the wolf feeds because of the smaller lip...i think the tension in the extractor is gone..am just going to have to find some new ones...thanks to all that answered.

Dave Sample
May 19, 2004, 05:24 PM
One more time: Check the Breechface. It's a little too narrow.

outdoorman63
May 21, 2004, 05:13 PM
what exactly should i look for? i am very new to the gunsmithing part but i do learn quick.....i took it apart and slid a round in and around and it fits well without the extractor...and then slowly tried to load a round and watched it bind..then loaded a wolf steel rd and it went sommothly...are u saying that there could be debris in there or that there is a burr? i do appreciate all the help ...i wish i had been doing this since i was 21 not starting at 40..lol

Old Fuff
May 21, 2004, 08:11 PM
Concerning the cartridge used in the Ballester-Molina, see the following.


11.43 x 23mm

SYNONYMS .45 ACP
.45 Colt Auto
Cartridge Ball, Cal: 45 M1911
.450 Automatic
11.25mm Norwegian Colt
11.25 mm Model 1914

This cartridge was designed by John Browning in 1905 and adopted by the United States for the Model 1911 Colt automatic pistol, also designed by Browning. In 1914 Norway adopted the pistol and cartridge under the 11.25 designation. Argentina has also used it in Colt –type automatic pistols and in the Ballester-Molina and HALCON submachine guns; Mexico in the Obregon pistol; and Brazil in the Model INA 953 submachine gun. In addition to the Model 1911 pistol, the following United States military weapons have been chambered for the cartridge: Colt and Smith & Wesson Model 1917 revolvers; Thompson submachine guns, Model 1928 and 1928A1; Reising Model 50, 55 and 60 semiautomatic guns; M1, M1A1, M3 and M3A1 submachine guns, …

“Handguns of the World” by Edward C. Ezell.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BluesBear and Jim Keenan are correct. 11.25mm is the designation for the .45ACP in Europe and South America.

1911Tuner
May 22, 2004, 06:03 PM
Happy Birthday Dave! (72 and holdin'.) It's Kelie's birthday too...1971.
Yeah, yeah...I know. I robbed the cradle, but it was HER idea. :p

Sal-UTE!

Tuner

Dave Sample
May 23, 2004, 04:14 PM
Thanks Old Pal Tunerfish! I went to an NRA Banquet last night and they sang The Song for me and I got a standing ovation. Had two near beers, a steak dinner, and a great piece of cake! On to the problem. Some guns are " Case Rim Sensitive" as you know. .001 difference can cause a bind there. I would scrape the curved edge on the breechface just slightly to make it a little wider. Also the .490 dimension could help in this case. You can tell him about that. It is a very small tweak but perhaps I can get a picture somehow and that will help us. I like these kind of guns. Look for some brass marks there. Gotta run I have 7 PATRIOTS to assemble, pack and ship. No rest for Bubba today!

outdoorman63
May 25, 2004, 01:06 PM
the gun is fixed...thanks to all that helped..it seemed to be a combination of extractor and breechface...i even redid my other one and it runs so much smoother now....i cant thank you all enought...for the help and lessons i have learned....keep up the good work

1911Tuner
May 25, 2004, 01:18 PM
Ahhhh...Another satisfied customer. Excellent news!

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