Garand in Jaws


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ReadyontheRight
February 9, 2003, 12:27 PM
In the movie "Jaws" Roy Scheider brings a Garand out on the boat to hunt the shark...

*****Movie Spoiler Warning*****

...but he only uses it (in typical Hollywood fashion) to create a huge explosion with the oxygen tank upon which the shark is convienently chewing. Blow'd 'em up real good.:D

Two questions:

1. Wouldn't 8 shots of 30-06 be powerful shark medicine? Especially in the open mouth and eyes. Or are sharks somehow impervious to FMJ bullets?

2. Were Garands available to the general public back in the 70's? Was it through the DCM/CMP? Am I going to drool over how cheap they were?

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dude
February 9, 2003, 12:35 PM
8 shots of 30.06 would be worthless aginst a shark unless you were very close and lucky enough to hit the fist sized brain. FMJ even more so

A shark has no bone structure, just meat, hide and a huge liver and they take lots of damage before going down.

.............and unless you get a shot off and hit the exposed flank or head while out of the water, any round will loose to much energy going through water.

DJJ
February 9, 2003, 01:18 PM
1. There was also the small complication that Brody missed most of his shots (note the Spielberg-esque shots of the bullets angling down through the water. Similar shots in Saving Private Ryan).

2. ?? Quint was in the Navy, so he might have brought one home. Side note: Robert Shaw was drunk when they shot the "Indianapolis story" scene. Could you tell?

As far as spoiling the movie, it's been out almost 30 years. You didn't just see it for the first time, did you? :neener:

dude
February 9, 2003, 01:31 PM
...still a GREAT movie though!!

dfariswheel
February 9, 2003, 02:43 PM
Next time you see the movie, notice the heavy rust on the M1.
This is a fake Hollywood-applied rust, an even THE GAS CYLINDER is rusty!!

In the early 60's, M1's could be bought surplus. I remember seeing excellent condition M1's advertised in sporting magazines for sale by Klein's Hardware in Chicago for $99.00.

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 04:08 PM
I bought several Garands in Tucson in 1965 for $100.00 ea. Some had NM barrels.

El Tejon
February 9, 2003, 04:20 PM
"What do you know about sharks?"
"I was aboard the Indianapolis, arrr. . . ."

The only person that I know that has written about using firearms against sharks is Jeff Cooper. His older brother ran a tourist/fishing boat and they used to catch sharks and then shoot them.

Apparently it was not a matter of power, but placement:

"When we got a shark alongside, we killed him either throwing a loop around his tail and pulling him backward through the water, or by shooting him. We shot sharks with everything from 22s to 45-70s, including a variety of 30-30s, 30-40s, Springfields, and a number of pistols--including the only Broomhandle Mauser I ever used extensively.

Killing a shark with a bullet is no simple matter, since he is almost impervious to shock and must be hit exactly in the brain."

Jeff Cooper, ANOTHER COUNTRY 11 (1992).

I remember racks upon racks of Garand, carbines and `03s as a kid in the `70s in an Indy gun store when I was a kid. Do not recall a price. Dad never bought any but told me what they were (and the mind was warped then and there:D).

cratz2
February 9, 2003, 06:44 PM
I think large sharp harpoons stuck through the shark and into the deck would be the best choice under most circumstances. With sharks less than 30 ft long. :p

But they're pretty easily penetratable. 00 or 000 buchshot would probably be your best chance, short of a machine gun which would probably afford over penetration all too consistantly.

I'd go for the shotgun. It's the only gun ever mentioned by the one person with which I have discussed shark shooting. He also mentioned something like a 'sand shot'? Said Park Rangers used them for bears in many parks back in the day. I guess they were supposed to be extremely effective. I forget the details. Think they used them in shotguns and 44 Magnums. Back in the 70s to early 80s. Also forgot why they stopped using them.

Anyone?

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 07:19 PM
They stopped probably because PETA threw a fit. Maybe some of those members threw themselves between the bears and the shot, and became normal looking.

Jim V
February 9, 2003, 07:34 PM
Papa Hemmingway used to pepper them with a Thompson.

Yohan
February 9, 2003, 07:36 PM
I would have loved to have seen the character in Jaws fire all 8 shots toward the shark and proceed to club the shark to death with the Garand. Wouldn't that have been awesome?

Uncle Ethan
February 9, 2003, 08:24 PM
Jim V - Which one did Papa Hemingway hose down with the Thompson- PETA members, Bears, or Sharks?:what:

Bruce in West Oz
February 9, 2003, 08:59 PM
A friend of mine recently "retired" to travel with his wife around Australia in a converted bus. He used to skipper a lobster boat (we call 'em "crayboats"). Geoff said when he was younger he was working on a boat as a deckie. In off times, they used to wetline (go deepsea fishing).

This day they caught a decent shark -- around the 12 - 13 foot mark. As they started to drag it over the stern gunwale, it began to thrash violently, rolling and snapping at anything and everything.

One of the other deckies ran to the wheelhouse and grabbed the old SMLE .303 that just about every boat carried for this purpose. With the others straining to hold the shark still, he pumped half a dozen FMJ into the shark's head from just a few feet away.

The shark went very still and they were able to haul it inboard.

In doing so, they revealed the six neat little .303 calibre holes in the crayboat's deck -- and through the hull below water level. :D

MarineTech
February 9, 2003, 10:52 PM
In doing so, they revealed the six neat little .303 calibre holes in the crayboat's deck -- and through the hull below water level.

This is the reason a lot of fishing boats carry Bang Sticks. Their basically just a metal tube with a button on the side and open on 1 end. At the open end is a #4 shot 12 Gauge shotgun shell. The stick is placed "upside" the sharks cranium and the button is pressed. BOOM. The shot column stay intact enough to penetrate the skin, then basically spreads everywhere. Bad news for Mr Shark, good news for the boat owner because the shot loses velocity fast enough that it will not generally penetrate the hull of a wood or fiberglass boat.

Diesle
February 9, 2003, 10:55 PM
Ummm, isnt that Garand(t).... as in parend(t)..... :)



Diesle

Bruce in West Oz
February 9, 2003, 11:18 PM
MarineTech

Yeah, we used to have "bangsticks" here, too -- generally called "smokies" (Don't ask why. haven't a clue.)

Possession of one of those here now will get you about a zillion years in jail! :what:

Bruce

HABU
February 10, 2003, 01:05 AM
IIRC, JAWS was munching on SCUBA bottles. Simple compressed air. I have always called BS on the way JAWS blew up in a ball of fire.

I liked the scene in The Perfect Storm where :cuss: shot the shark upside his head with a shotgun.:D Put an end to the thrashing, for sure!

BerettaNut92
February 10, 2003, 01:26 AM
"We need a bigger rifle." ;)

Kahr carrier
February 10, 2003, 03:11 AM
Bought several Garands for $100.00 dollars each. What a Deal.:)

Lone Star
February 10, 2003, 09:20 AM
Elmer Keith wrote up his experiences shooting at sharks with .44 Magnums. He found that softpoints didn't penetrate, but (of course,) his Keith cast bullets did. Part of the problem with the softpoints was that they'd glance off the water. I think he told the truth, as he usually did.

After reading a lot of books on sharks and on shark attack, it's clear that one should study diagrams and know where the Y-shaped brain is.

I also encountered a number of instances in which knives and/or spearguns sufficed. One account emphasized the desiribility (sp; I'm exhausted) of ripping open the shark's stomach by using his momentum as he charges. This gets water in there and messes up his balance. Stabbing the gills and brain worked, too.

Hey: will the guy in Western Australia tell us whether that ban on bangsticks is a state law or federal? I know that "sticks" used to be really popular there, and also came in .303.

Thanks,

Lone Star

Keith
February 10, 2003, 01:37 PM
Fish are actually quite easy to kill with firearms. I've killed 250 pound halibut with a single .22 shot, and seen much larger ones killed in the same way. You can't pull a fish that size into a small boat until you've killed it. Hell, you don't even want to gaff a fish that size until you've "calmed it down" some.

Some people try and shoot them in the brain, but you can waste a lot of shots before you hit it. And of course the fish is going wild with every shot and trying to break loose, and sometimes they do.

The trick is to shoot them through the gills, which are a central nexus of all the blood vessels. One shot through there and a fish will bleed out very quickly. It doesn't kill them at once, but a huge cloud of blood will begin to spread almost instantly and the fish will grow weaker by the second. I suppose you could haul them without fear within 20-30 seconds, but we generally wait and let them bleed out in the water instead of in the boat.

Keith

Diesle
February 10, 2003, 01:44 PM
I think it’s very likely that Roy was practicing good firearms technique. He was simple not willing to take the risk of shooting at the surface of the water because that is not responsible gun ownership.

Hollywood would absolutely not allow any demonstration of the misuse of firearms to make it past the cutting room floor.

Diesle

bogie
February 10, 2003, 02:15 PM
Huh?

It's been a while since I saw that movie, but I coulda sworn that he was shooting a bolt gun at the critter...

Dave R
February 10, 2003, 03:03 PM
Nope. Garand.

What I like is the way the bullets left little bitty splashes, like a pellet gun would. Both the Garand and the .357 pistol he shoots at the shark earlier in the flick. I know Speilberg was trying to show how puny and ineffective the firearms are against the big shark, but he averdid that effect. Real bullets would have looked a lot more "energetic" in the water.

Bruce in West Oz
February 10, 2003, 09:05 PM
Lone Star

The Federal government in Australia has no jurisdiction over firearms, apart from importation laws via Customs.

What it does is (literally) threaten to remove State funding until the States submit to what it wants. Hence the reason we now have "uniform" firearms laws, all pushed by the Feds and supported by the States.

To the best of my knowledge, bangsticks are now prohibited weapons in Australia nationwide. The penalty for possession in some States is, I believe, up to 14 years jail time.

Bruce

Flatfender
February 10, 2003, 09:42 PM
I heard that in the "new" release of Jaws that's coming out this summer, is that Chief Brody gets eaten at the end.

The Garand in his hand gets replaced with a walkie-talkie! :p

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