[Buckhannon]

Smith & Wesson 432 PD 32 H&R MAG --Small revolver that will stop someone.:)

[Artic]

In an auto would be the .380

In a revolver .38 special

I won't go any lower :D

[jon_in_wv]

Mine is the Ruger LCP. I didn't trust it until I decided I'd put 500 rounds through it to see what it was capable of. I fired 350 rounds in less than a week and I gained a LOT more confidence with it. Its a beast for its size.

[thorazine]

What's the smallest pistol you'd trust?

Sub compact glock.

Or a quality J FRAME.


Nothing smaller than that.

[DarthCalvin]

Tough question...Sometimes I carry an old pre-WWII Czech .380 fits in my pocket but I'm not to impressed with the stopping power...but

I prefer my SW 66-2 .357 or my Sigma .40 both of which provide adequate stopping power.

[Lyonheart]

Based on 30 years of experience, my choice will work well for you. Everyone would like .50 Cal balistics, recoil of a .22, chain gun capacity and minimal cost of acquisition...in the real world of Oakland and Watts, my world of concern, this is what I did:

AMT Back Up single action loaded .380, leather wallet holster that fits in the back pocket of Levi's or Wranglers, can be carried in the top front jacket pocket of a tuxedo, 5+1 rounds of Hyrdashok and a philosophy of if it ever came out, it would be used effectively. Never came out; as Cooper says, an armed society is a polite society. Just knowing I had a choice made my conversations more effective. Had a few conversations over the years.

This was and is I believe a cost effective solution that meets all of your criteria and will exceed your expectations. It will also make you appear about one foot taller when you walk in the valley of death, no idea why...

[Marlin 45 carbine]

during the years I followed construction welding I carried a double bbl derringer in .22 Magnum on a chain around my neck. never had to pull it but had some close calls.
now I've got a Beretta .32acp that shoots better than a pistol that size should that I'm confident in, just to carry when very lightly dressed or in my trouser pocket.
I'm confident in my Makarov 9mm in a vest or jacket.

[Elvishead]

22lr, but that doesn't mean I carry one, I carry a .38spl snub.

[QUICK_DRAW_McGRAW]

something is better then nothing, i do carry my great grandfathers beretta .22LR with CCi mini-mag HP's

[okespe04]

ruger lcp

[sherghis]

KelTec pF 9 for pocket carry and a XDSC 40 in a super tuck IWB the rest of the time..sometimes both.

[christcorp]

Buy a P64 Polish chambered in 9x18 9mm Makarov. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. it's really small. It's more powerful than a 380. On the low end of a 9mm luger. Shoot accurate as hell. And you can get one for $150; plus S/h and FFL is right at $200. A very good military/police pistol. The next step up in size, same caliber, is the FEG PA-63. Easier to shoot. Still great for concealed purposes. Ammo is the best. Going price is around $180. Next step up, same caliber, still easy to conceal, is the CZ-82 or one of the makarovs. Best of all the 9mm makarov calibers. Price is in the $220 for th CZ-82, up to around $300 for the bulgarian makarov. For self defense, you're talking about one of the best calibers ever. Been used by police and military for years in most eastern european countries as well as the soviet union. And again, ammo is inexpensive online, with some really good hornady, corbon, and others for defensive ammo.

[rha600]

I'm on the same page as quick draw.

something is better than nothing. and after seeing how accurate and lethal my .17HMR is on animals, I wouldn't have a problem carrying a revolver in that caliber. 7 rounds to someone's head with a .17HMR will do some ugly damage.

now if I could have anything then I think I'd try to stay with a .38spl or more.

[more forty fives]

I have to say a 9mm.

[duns]

As light as I'll personally go is a 158-gr .38 spl +P out of a snub, which at least has decent sectional density. (Unlike a lot of folks, I'm not at all excited about the new Gold Dot 135-grain bullet - I don't especially care how much it expands - I'm more into guaranteed penetration.)

Could you please point me to the penetration data on the Gold Dot 135 grain? Do you mean the short barrel version? This is what I'm carrying in my J-frame and I would like to check out the data. Thanks.

[duns]

I just noticed the opening post was made in 2004! Is it site policy to allow threads to be reopened at any time?

[Fleetman]

To me it doesn't matter how old the post is....still interesting!

My answer would be "the one that is 100% reliable". Let's face it, there are always those times when you have to carry something much smaller than you would really care to but circumstances/situations sometimes dictate.

I regularly carry a 9mm for most outings but also grab the LCP when limited carry options present themselves. In a pinch, although not my preferred carry, a .22LR is better then nothing. You just gotta aim a lot better!

[SwampWolf]

Is it site policy to allow threads to be reopened at any time?

Why not? I suppose it may all depend but a given topic doesn't necessarily lose its relavancy over time.

[6x6pinz]

still waiting for the anti 380 guys, or 32's for that matter, to come up with some news articles where the bad guys kept coming after being shot at by a 380 or the 380 "bounced" off of them leaving them unharmed. Until there is real world data showing different I will continue to count on my 380's, which have done just fine to this point, far better than my 45's in my safe.

[NG VI]

Subcompact Glock for a service-type auto, I think they really nailed the subcompact with the 26/27, I think they are the archetype of the subcompact version of a service pistol, and they shoot at least as well as their bigger brothers.

I've got a Taurus PT-22 that is pretty good, not as sterling reliability as my 27, however it really isn't bad so long as I feed it well, it doesn't mind bulk stuff either. I have been surprised with its reliability, so something of a similiar size in .32 would probably be a fun gun to shoot, without the possible ignition problems of a rimfire. When I've carried the Taurus as a backup, it was usually loaded with Aguila 60 grain, might as well launch the most lead you can out of it, and that stuff has been exemplary in the reliability department.

I would really like a S&W 432 PD that was mentioned earlier on the page, seems like a great, lower recoil, six(?) shot J frame, sounds like a winner to me.

[duns]

still waiting for the anti 380 guys, or 32's for that matter, to come up with some news articles where the bad guys kept coming after being shot at by a 380 or the 380 "bounced" off of them leaving them unharmed.
Here is an account of an incident in which a 380 was highly effective: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_146_24/ai_61861505/?tag=content;col1

[earlthegoat2]

I would trust a 380 pocket gun to deliver when things get dicey. I just prefer the 38 Special snub for the heavier bullet weight.

[jackstinson]

as Cooper says, an armed society is a polite society.
While Cooper and many others have said it, the quote is from Robert A. Heinlein;
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert A. Heinlein / "Beyond This Horizon" 1942

[Occam's Razor]

The smallest pistol I would trust would be the biggest one available to me at the moment I needed it.

[uspJ]

personally i won't go with anything smaller than a 9mm for personal defense. i carry a keltec pf9 or glock 26 daily and couldn't be happier with either one. the trigger on the pf9 leaves a bit to be desired and took alot to get used to for me, however if more than makes up for it with how concealable it is. the subcompact glocks are some of the best ccw pistols available as well as the subcompact xd and khars.

[freakaccident]

duplicate

[freakaccident]

I know this is a couple of months from the last post but I thought I needed to comment.

I was attacked in my home several years ago and survived because of a low caliber round. Barely. Read on.

My room mate at the time had some friends over. We were all drinking and having a good time. I recall that we were watching a cartoon movie. I can't recall the name but I remember one line that was "America Kick A$$".

I went into my bedroom to use the restroom and for some reason I looked under my pillow to see if my .40 IMI was still there. It was not.

When I returned to the living room I questioned my room mate's guests and one of them attacked me. He threw me from the living room onto the floor in the kitchen. He continued to beat me and threw me up against the sliding glass door in the kitchen.

I had a Ruger 10/22 with a large heavy barrel installed, between the refrigerator and the wall near the sliding glass door. I grabbed the rifle and smacked him over the head with the barrel.

My attacker, with head bleeding, came at me more furious than before. He tried to take the rifle from me and in the process shot one round which struck me on the top of the foot.

After the shot he stumbled backwards and then lunged at me again. At this point the rifle was facing in his direction. As he attempted to disarm me again he was struck in the forearm by one .22 LR round which shattered and the fragments struck his chest.

At this point he continued attacking me. After a few fists to my face he stopped. He had realized that he was bleeding all over my kitchen.

He was hauled off in an ambulance and I was charged with criminal recklessness. The police picked my house apart looking for my IMI .40 and never found it. They took the Ruger and a Kahr I had in the lockbox in my truck.

$6000 and a year or so later I won my case. Self defense.

This guy had a 6 page rap sheet with kidnapping, assault, weapons charges, and drug charges. He was also seen two days after his injuries at a bar getting drunk. I didn't even have a speeding ticket.

I found the .40 a couple weeks later in a utensil pot on the kitchen counter. He must have ditched it there after he was injured.

Yes I was a dumb ass for leaving my pistol under my pillow. No reason to point out my mistakes. I know my faults in this.

On the subject though, in my personal opinion carrying a .22 for protection is a HORRIBLE idea. IF you don't hit your mark you will be sorry. My experience could have turned out much worse. Stopping power is necessary and you can not piss off an attacker with a .22 unless you shoot them in the eye.

I currently carry a S&W Airweight .38 with Corbon +P loaded. I have taken classes and feel much more confident if the situation were to arise again.

Hopefully some of you will learn something from my experience.

Thanks

[MikeNice]

For the guys saying they trust a .22, I have a story.

I was in the hospital ER. I was waiting for my turn when a guy walked in leaking blood on the floor. It turns out he had been shot "twice" in the stomach with a .22. They rushed him to the back. Two hours later I was in a room in back when I heard two doctors talking. The guy had died in surgery. He thought he had been shot twice but had been shot six times.

The point became real clear to me. You can shoot a guy six times with a .22 and he won't even realize it. To make matters worse he could very well live another 90 minutes. That means he will have plenty of time to keep attacking.

For me a .380 or .38spl is the absolute minimum for self protection. Personally I lean more towards a 3"+ barrel and 9mm 124gr +P as the minimum for comfort.

[S&Wfan]

A FIVE YEAR OLD ZOMBIE THREAD THAT WON'T DIE!

I guess it wasn't shot with a big enough caliber "bore."

[Welding Rod]

9mm minimum.

And I prefer "service" sized guns. I am skeptical of compacts of any make.

[gun guy]

the smallest gun i have is a 2 shot davis derringer in 22 wrm. with the winchester fmj it pushes a 40gr tc at 1,000 fps 89ft/lbs of muzzle energy. i would trust it, at the muzzle anyways. across the card table it starts to get really iffy. It conceals very nicely in my cowboy rig, right underneath a ruger blackhawk 41 magnum, that would most likely be my first choice.

[valorius]

I used to carry a .32acp 11shooter, but i grew leery of that because of rimlock issues that i was experiencing, and because of other issues with the gun.

I upgraded to an LCP using Corbon DPX+P. I think that should be ok for any situation not requiring a rifle. When i know ill be going to a real bad neighborhood, i carry my HK P7 9mm with 100gr Corbon Powrball+P loaded.

[Manco]

On the subject though, in my personal opinion carrying a .22 for protection is a HORRIBLE idea. IF you don't hit your mark you will be sorry. My experience could have turned out much worse. Stopping power is necessary and you can not piss off an attacker with a .22 unless you shoot them in the eye.

I currently carry a S&W Airweight .38 with Corbon +P loaded. I have taken classes and feel much more confident if the situation were to arise again.

Are you trying to say that a .38 Special+P round has some kind of "stopping power" that would have stopped your determined assailant with a shot to the arm, or any other shot that doesn't hit the mark? I seriously doubt that there is any such thing with regard to handgun calibers.

For the guys saying they trust a .22, I have a story.

I was in the hospital ER. I was waiting for my turn when a guy walked in leaking blood on the floor. It turns out he had been shot "twice" in the stomach with a .22. They rushed him to the back. Two hours later I was in a room in back when I heard two doctors talking. The guy had died in surgery. He thought he had been shot twice but had been shot six times.

The point became real clear to me. You can shoot a guy six times with a .22 and he won't even realize it. To make matters worse he could very well live another 90 minutes. That means he will have plenty of time to keep attacking.

That doesn't surprise me one bit, as there are plenty of stories about people who absorbed multiple rounds from 9mm and larger calibers, and kept right on coming--some of them even survived, unlike the guy in your example. Just recently, one guy in Harlem was hit 21 times (most, if not all, of the rounds were 124 grain 9mm+P Gold Dot JHPs used by the NYPD), and was still alert and talkative when he arrived at the hospital (he has survived thus far).

And then there's the often repeated (especially during LE training) story of South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates, who put 5 out of his 6 .357 Magnum rounds into a 325 lb bad guy (center of mass), who was then able to return fire with a single (although he had fired one earlier) .22 LR round from a derringer that went through a gap in the side of Coates' body armor and pierced his aorta, dropping him quickly and killing him on the spot shortly afterward. The perp survived, barely affected by his wounds. As you can see from this example, any caliber can have "stopping power" with--and ONLY with--effective shot placement.

For me a .380 or .38spl is the absolute minimum for self protection. Personally I lean more towards a 3"+ barrel and 9mm 124gr +P as the minimum for comfort.

Although there's nothing wrong with these calibers, ironically I feel more comfortable with .40 S&W or larger. :) I don't think that I'm contradicting myself here, because I'm more aware than most of how minor of an advantage it is to use a larger caliber. I simply choose to shoot the largest that I can handle well, that's all (I can shoot .45 ACP just fine, but it costs more and I have to choose between capacity and trigger reach for smaller members of my family, so I had to draw the line somewhere).

[valorius]

The jump in performance going from .32 to .380 with a modern round like Corbon DPX+P is pretty darned big. The jump from .380 to 9mm, especially 9mm+P+, is pretty big too.

All jumps thereafter show minimal, if any, gains until you get to the big ole' .45 rounds.

[doc2rn]

Probably my new S&W 452

[Vigilante X]

OK, I'll admit it, during the summer months I carry a S&W Model 30-1
.32 Long on occasion. I like it because nothing fits in your front pocket
with a holster like a J Frame. Otherwise, .380 is the smallest I will go as
far as caliber and size (Ruger LCP).

[Ledgehammer]

For me a .380 or .38spl is the absolute minimum for self protection. Personally I lean more towards a 3"+ barrel and 9mm 124gr +P as the minimum for comfort.

WellI hate to be the bearer of bad news but - my best friend was shot with a .380 to the gut from about 5ft away. It didn't put him down at all. We walked all the way to my house to call 911 since this was before cell phones. This was about a half mile - he wouldn't even sit down until I forced him. The bullet went in and out. It really messed him up inside He had to be life flighted to the hospital, but it didn't immediately incapacitate him at all. We were 15 at the time.

We were robbed on the way home from school. He wouldn't give them anything so they shot him and took off. They were caught and I think the guy did about 3.5 years for aggravated assault and some weapons charge not sure exactly.

[MikeNice]

Ledge read post #283. That kind of thing can happen with any caliber. However, It is less likely with good shot placement.

No handgun is promised to stop every atacker every time. Not even a rifle is promised to stop a determined foe in one shot every time.

When my grandpa was in the VA he shared a room with a guy that served in Korea. The guy that served in Korea had been shot twice by a 7.7mm Japanese surplus rifle. He was shot once and kept fighting. The second shot broke his right arm. That was the shot that caused him to stop fighting. Not because it hit some major body part, but because the pain was too great.

Then you can look at Henry Lincoln Johnson. He served as one of the "Harlem Hell Fighters" in WWI. He was wounded by a grenade, stabbed, and shot twice in the chest at close range with a revolver. When they tried to take the other guy on guard duty with him as a prisoneer he rushed the Germans. He used his hand grenades and rifle untill the rifle jammed. Then he started bashing skulls with the rifle untill it broke. He then pulled out his 12" Bolo knife and continued hacking and slashing Germans.

When it was all said and done Johnson was wounded 21 times and survived. However, he killed 4 germans, critically wounded 12, and sent the rest of the attackers running for their life. The next morning they found Henry, and the guy he went to save, laying in their fox hole singing jazz songs

Nothing is promised to do the trick the first time every time.

[Manco]

The jump in performance going from .32 to .380 with a modern round like Corbon DPX+P is pretty darned big.

And why is that? Make your case.

The jump from .380 to 9mm, especially 9mm+P+, is pretty big too.

Why?

All jumps thereafter show minimal, if any, gains until you get to the big ole' .45 rounds.

Eh, in my opinion, there's hardly any jump between 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP at all, as they can all penetrate well enough while expanding a fair amount, and there's only a small fraction of an inch difference between them.

[Ledgehammer]

S&Wfan
Member
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Join Date: December 17, 2005
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Posts: 967
A FIVE YEAR OLD ZOMBIE THREAD THAT WON'T DIE!

I guess it wasn't shot with a big enough caliber "bore."


hilarious!

On a side note my wife won't carry anything larger than a .22. She has shot a .38 special and my old .380 and didn't like either. I think 38 snub really turned her off and now she thinks anything over .22 will snap like that. She's a good shot too. How do I get her to move up in caliber. It has to be done right or she will get stubborn on me.

[valorius]

WellI hate to be the bearer of bad news but - my best friend was shot with a .380 to the gut from about 5ft away. It didn't put him down at all. We walked all the way to my house to call 911 since this was before cell phones. This was about a half mile - he wouldn't even sit down until I forced him. The bullet went in and out. It really messed him up inside He had to be life flighted to the hospital, but it didn't immediately incapacitate him at all. We were 15 at the time.

We were robbed on the way home from school. He wouldn't give them anything so they shot him and took off. They were caught and I think the guy did about 3.5 years for aggravated assault and some weapons charge not sure exactly.
If you needed verification that a .35 cal FMJ to the gut is not a fight stopping wound, you have it here. I am curious, had the shot been an " or two right or left, and severed his spine, would you be saying how great a stopper .380 is?

The devil is always in the details.

Manco:

And why is that? Make your case.
Ammo selection. There is no round in .32acp that shows anything near the performance of a round like .380 corbon DPX+P in tests. I've seen 3 tests of it, and the expansion has been between .645"avg-.70+" avg in all of them. Penetration has been in the 9"-11" avg range, depending on the test.

Buffalo Bore flat nose is the one load in .32 acp i really liked, but it rimlocked on me even with KT mag spacers installed, several times. I don't trust it, so i couldn't use it. That means the only real choice in .32acp is FMJ.

So, .380 = much bigger hole (and a jagged bleeding hole at that thanks to the DPX cutting petals) with the right ammo while still getting 10" avg penetration. 10" is more than enough in a frontal shot, which as a CCW citizen, is by far the most likely shot i'll be taking. So, to me, the extra pen. of a .32acp is wasted. What's more, the .32 acp FMJ wound channel is most akin to an icepick.

So to me, there is a pretty clear advantage for .380 here.

I think the 9mm has a big edge over the .380 because the same DPX round weighs more, delivers more than double the energy, and drives deeper into the target. And there are just countless top ammo selections available in 9mm, some delivering over 500fpe of energy.

Eh, in my opinion, there's hardly any jump between 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP at all, as they can all penetrate well enough while expanding a fair amount, and there's only a small fraction of an inch difference between them.
I agree that .357 magnum, 9mm, .38spl +P+, .38 Super, 40 and .357 sig are pretty much one as good as the other. I don't see any real difference in terminal performance between them at all when top loads are compared. However, the .45 can get nearly 1" expansion in a lot of tests. A 1" hole is a 1" hole. I think that sets it apart to a degree.

But i think any of them will work. I truly believe that stopping power has far, far more to do with the will to fight in the bad guy (or the good guy) than it does with caliber, bullet selection, or even shot placement.

Some people will get hit with a fatal hit and keep fighting regardless until they bleed out. Doesn't matter what they get hit with. 12ga shotgun, .50bmg, there are unbelievable accounts of people soaking up massive punishment in battle and still fighting on.

[Ledgehammer]

If you needed verification that a .35 cal FMJ to the gut is not a fight stopping wound, you have it here. I am curious, had the shot been an " or two right or left, and severed his spine, would you be saying how great a stopper .380 is?

haha. There's no devil in the details - that's like shooting somebody in the temple with a .22. It's going to stop them right? The chances of you being that accurate are ridiculously small. My point is not many handguns really are stoppers. But if you having a .380 instead of a .32 acp makes you feel all warm and fuzzy then stick with it. You won't hear boo out of me for your choice. On the other hand I feel very comfortable with my kt32 and it's reliability and my ability to be accurate with it. It's not my only carry gun but I don't feel unarmed at all when it's all I can conceal.

[valorius]

Well i agree that a .380 FMJ to the gut is not a stopper, that's for sure.

A double tap of .380 Corbon DPX+P to the center of the chest...i suspect that's going to work over 90% of the time.

As for reliability, i found my P32 to be anything but. The daggone rimlock issue really bedeviled me. I ended up carrying a Buffalo Bore FN in the chamber and top round in the mag, with all Geco (which is "+P" compared to US ammo) FMJ backing them up.

I feel a lot better with 8 DPX in my .380.

Are you trying to say that a .38 Special+P round has some kind of "stopping power" that would have stopped your determined assailant with a shot to the arm, or any other shot that doesn't hit the mark? I seriously doubt that there is any such thing with regard to handgun calibers.
In freak accident's specific story, a .38spl+P may very well have continued on through the arm and into the chest, instead of just a few small fragments hitting his BG in the chest.

[Ledgehammer]

It was a hollowpoint. Anyway - I think we've gone as far as we can with this. Have a good one.

[valorius]

In the gut.

I think everyone agrees that gut shots are not the way to go for rapid incapacitation, in any caliber.

[SlamFire1]

Are you trying to say that a .38 Special+P round has some kind of "stopping power" that would have stopped your determined assailant with a shot to the arm, or any other shot that doesn't hit the mark? I seriously doubt that there is any such thing with regard to handgun calibers.

Handguns in general are just poor weapons. I once shot a Groundhog on the head with a 125 gr Winchester Silver Tip 38 Special from a four inch revolver. It was not a +P round.

That bullet slide between the forehead skin down into the neck, cutting a neck blood vessel. It did not pentrate the skull. While the poor Groundhog bled to death, it not was not an impressive demonstration of the "stopping" power of a 38.

Still, the 38 Spl is the lowest I go in a handgun.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/M624CentennialAirweight.jpg

Now, you want stopping power, get a Tulwar. I just finished a couple of books on the British Empire with descriptions of sword fights. You cut a guy's head off with a Tulwar, or cut his body in half, that is stopping power.

One of these will do quite nicely.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/swords/M1885BritSwordandScabbardview.jpg

[valorius]

I'm more of a Katana guy myself. :)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/m21sniper/Spoons/P7andCSKatana2.jpg

[Boris bush]

One good slash with that and you will have a 100% stop rate. Too bad we cannt carry them.......

Are you a ninja?

[valorius]

Only when i'm working at the mall. LOL!

No, alas, i am but a simple ex infantry dude. :)

[Manco]

Manco:


Ammo selection. There is no round in .32acp that shows anything near the performance of a round like .380 corbon DPX+P in tests. I've seen 3 tests of it, and the expansion has been between .645"avg-.70+" avg in all of them. Penetration has been in the 9"-11" avg range, depending on the test.

I'll just repeat one general observation about bullets and bodies, and leave it up to the reader to decide. No matter how two bullets apparently stack up against one another, they're all still awfully small in comparison to the human body (there is a difference in performance, but it's small).

I think the 9mm has a big edge over the .380 because the same DPX round weighs more, delivers more than double the energy, and drives deeper into the target. And there are just countless top ammo selections available in 9mm, some delivering over 500fpe of energy.

Energy in and of itself tells us little, in my opinion. It's not enough energy to wound through temporary cavitation, so it's mostly a matter of how deep and how wide, in that order of importance (with shot placement being far more important than both). Sometimes having more energy actually hurts performance, because the round will tend to dump its energy and momentum faster, which reduces penetration. The energy is then transformed into a small amount of heat that is wasted, making the round less efficient.

I truly believe that stopping power has far, far more to do with the will to fight in the bad guy (or the good guy) than it does with caliber, bullet selection, or even shot placement.

Some people will get hit with a fatal hit and keep fighting regardless until they bleed out. Doesn't matter what they get hit with. 12ga shotgun, .50bmg, there are unbelievable accounts of people soaking up massive punishment in battle and still fighting on.

I agree in the sense that many actual stops are psychological in nature (you frequently don't even need to fire! :)), but I think that what most people have in mind in discussions is physical stopping power, which really requires a CNS hit or something really vital in the cardiovascular system, such as the aorta (and even then, some people keep fighting to the last second of life or consciousness). Just so we're clear about that. I think we're in general agreement here.

[valorius]

I'll just repeat one general observation about bullets and bodies, and leave it up to the reader to decide. No matter how two bullets apparently stack up against one another, they're all still awfully small in comparison to the human body (there is a difference in performance, but it's small).
I do not disagree, but bigger is bigger, and .645" is much bigger than .32". Twice as big, in fact.

I also think you and i are in general agreement about all this stuff. :)

[MikeNice]

I think I may be changing my mind. After reading the article Pocket Full of Dynamite over at Hanguns mag I feel more comfortable with a .38spl+P. The Speer Gold Dot is expanding to dimensions equal to (and greater than) a 9mm. All while penetrating 12.5+" in clothed gel. The Winchester SXT 130gr+P posts nearly identical numbers.

That is with a 2" barrel 38spl+P versus the 3.1" barrel 9mm used at Golden Loki.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/pocket_dynomite/

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9mm/gel9.htm

[valorius]

You can get speer gold dot in 9mm too, it is the same diameter as .38spl gold dot. Golden Loki just didn't test it.

Also, Corbon DPX+P in 9mm expands to double it's diameter, and then some.

[MikeNice]

You can get Corbon DPX in .38spl+P as well.

I come up with guys that always shot the 158gr SWCHP. Looking at the performance of the modern hollow points, I think that older load is obsolete. I also think that a .38spl+P is now pretty similar to a 9mm. The only problem is the lack of capacity.

That is just my opinion YMMV.

38spl+P Corbon DPX test at Handguns.


I was also not surprised to find the promised penetration while still expanding. In ballistic gelatin, the Cor-Bon 110-grain DPX penetrated 15 inches. The track was straight; the bullet remained nose-forward. The expanded bullet measured almost .60 inch in diameter and kept all of its expanded petals.

Even more impressive was the heavy-clothing portion of the test. Multiple layers of denim can clog hollowpoints, making them act like solids--or at least the older designs. Modern designs have been tuned with FBI test protocols in mind, and this bullet demonstrates that. Even with a shred of fabric attached to one petal, and a small ball of it cut out and left in the center of the mushroom, the bullet went (again) 15 inches.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/38snubbie_070507/index.html

[DasFriek]

Smallest id trust is a .380 as a bug or a main if i had to run out of the house fast and couldn't holster up.
But as a main gun a 9mm is the smallest i trust, But i still wont carry one.
Smallest i do carry is a .40 and i prefer a .45acp when possible.
Ill switch to a .460 Rowland when they make one without the muzzle brake.

[mustang_steve]

For the absolute smallest I'd use, .22mag NAA mini. It's all in how good you are at using it, and realizing what you can and can't do with it. Given, I'd only carry something that small if I had no other practical options....for the smallest "any situation" firearm, I'd go with a .380 semi-auto...along the lines of the P3AT, DB380, TCp, or similar.

[valorius]

Mike, i'm not saying .38spl+P is bad, just that the same expansion can be had in 9mm. I agree that .38spl+P is about the same as standard pressure 9mm, performance wise.

[MikeNice]

Val, it looks like you were clarifying some possible issues. I misunderstood. Sorry about that if it came off wrong.

[Captcurt]

Whatever I have in my hand. I put more emphasis on bullet placement than anything else.

[parisite]

The Ruger LCR revolver.

[valorius]

Val, it looks like you were clarifying some possible issues. I misunderstood. Sorry about that if it came off wrong.
Think nothing of it man. ;)

[jolly roger]

S&W 638 Bodyguard with Speer 135 Gold Dots. Bare minimum.

[sprice]

Lowest I'd go Is a nine or thirty eight.

[TheGrimReaper]

I really like my NAA mini in .22 Magnum!!!

[Erik M]

9mm in an auto, .38+p in a revolver. I prefer to pack my large frame firearms in .45 and .357 though.

[Teppo Oni]

no point in going smaller than a P3AT or a LCP .380
i pocket carry a glock 27 .40

but i have carried a keltec .32 in the past before they made a .380

[Peakbagger46]

A J-frame loaded with good .38+P rounds would be the smallest I personally would feel OK with.

[JohnBiltz]

I guess I'd have to say 9mm. I keep looking at the pocket .380s and I think it would be nice if I had to dress up in the summer here but I can't quite bring myself to buy one. I carry a Glock 26 everywhere and it gets hot here in Phoenix in the summer and cargo shorts and a T-shirt work fine with it.

[TexasBill]

I am happy with a .380; I carry a Beretta 84FS Cheetah with 13+1 capacity. Other carry options include a S&W M637, M60 and a Walther PK380.

When the weather turns cooler (whenever that happens down here), I'll be able to switch to full-size 9mm pistols.

I don't feel under-gunned with any of my carry sidearms. I practice with all of them and, at the most likely ranges for an SD, I am confident the guns will do their job if I do mine.

[grndslm]

My choice is either the NAA HGMC (http://www.impactguns.com/store/744253000911.html) or HGMSC (http://www.impactguns.com/store/744253000935.html).

I wonder how much that .5" on the barrel will make a difference to me and to the "outcome" of this thread. . . .

[zig]

My choice is either the NAA HGMC (http://www.impactguns.com/store/744253000911.html) or HGMSC (http://www.impactguns.com/store/744253000935.html).

I wonder how much that .5" on the barrel will make a difference to me and to the "outcome" of this thread. . . .

[naalover]

I trust the smallest .22 magnum revolver made: The North American Arms Pug with tritium sights. I chronied this gun with various ammunition the other day, and it's more than adequate as a primary (in certain circumstances), backup or ultra-deep concealment gun:

Ballistics info:

http://naaminis.blogspot.com/2010/08/north-american-arms-pug-ballistics.html

Photos:

http://naaminis.blogspot.com/2010/08/photos-north-american-arms-pug.html

http://apps.carryconcealed.net/forum2/showthread.php?2048-Photos-NAA-Pug-with-Trijicon-Tritium-Night-Sights

[davidb1247]

9mm or possibly 38 special
try the Kahr PM9 for concealed carry

[longhair75]

A friend of mine had a confrontation in the parking lot of a VFW. A gang banger shot him six times with a Raven Arms .25 caliber pistol. Two of the rounds didn't even make it through my friend's leather jacket. My friend made it to the kid and broke his wrist separating him from the pistol. The kid went to jail. My friend was released from the hospital a day later, and three days later was back at work.

[TurboJeff]

I like to carry a S&W 642 in a Mika pocket holster. I normally carry a 5" 1911 in a MS VM2.

[rich642z]

I carry a 6 shot Ruger GP100. And for backup,I carry the Ruger LCR both in .357 magnum caliber. and 4 speedloaders 2 in each pocket. @ 6 round HKS and 2 5 shot HKS speedloaders. The Ruger GP100 is in a 3 inch barrel. rich642z

[Hagen442]

Colt Baby 1911

[GlockMan1949]

Glock G30, factory tritium night sights, LWD captured stainless steel recoil guide rod and spring unit, Pearce +2 mag extension (really 1rd, not two), and 12rds of Winchester PDX1 in .45acp bonded JHP. Blade-Tech Universal IWB holster, or Blackhawk large fanny pack, or Blackhawk Serpa holster, or DeSantis Tuck This II IWB, or Fobus Ankle Holster...

There is nothing like a G30, or its older brother, the G21... Either one, is the most reliable, dependable, durable, accurate out of the box, BEST .45acp semi-autopistol. PERIOD...

GlockMan1949, oiut...:D

[DHart]

Glockman1949... gotta go with you on the G30. Such a sweet, sweet pistol! I love mine. And my 21SF.

I'd like to see your G30 with the Pearce ext... got any pics?

[skoro]

It looks like we have a lot of ideas about the "smallest" gun we'd trust.

I posted way back when that it would be a 380, which is generally considered a pipsqueek round. But I think it'd do the trick if it ever needed to, as long as I did my part, that is.

I read a lot about stopping power, but I don't think much of it is honest. I'm convinced that handguns in general don't have much stopping power. Rifles and shotguns do. But handguns require good shot placement in order to stop a determined assailant. We've all heard about cases where an individual has absorbed multiple hits from major caliber handguns and not only survived, but suffered little long term damage.

We've also all heard about single shot stops, using the same calibers.

The difference? Where the bullets passed through the targets.

Ya gotta hit 'em where it hurts. All else is minor details.

[IMTHDUKE]

One of those 22 magnum mouse guns but with the 4 inch barrel , or a keltec. Something with more punch than a .32 at least.

A 22mag has more punch than a .32?

[Mr. T]

.38 special