What's the smallest pistol you'd trust?

[Tom Servo]

Just curious. It's tax-refund time, and of course, I'll be blowing at least part of it on another pistol. What I need at this point is one for really deep concealment that I can also trust.

The Kahr K9 series looks nice, but a bit chubby. What are your thoughts on .380 as a caliber? Would you trust your life to one? Worst case scenario would likely be 1-2 attackers, <10 feet, summer clothes. I usually wear an untucked shirt.

Here's the situation. I'm 6'1", 160lbs. With a decent holster, I can pretty well conceal a Sig P228 unless someone's looking for it. However, my sister and her new husband are VERY anti-gun, despite the fact that they live in a bad part of town and one of their friends was shot four times during a mugging a few weeks ago. They're moving into a marginally better neighborhood, but it's directly adjacent to some really tough ones. They've never stated "No guns in our house," but I'd rather not push the issue. She and I grew up with guns, so she'd notice the 228 as soon as I bent over or sat down.

And yes, I've been trying to drag both of them to the range for years. All that liberal indoctrination takes time to break :banghead:

[Third_Rail]

If I were old enough to carry, I'd trust my life to a 22lr pistol. Although most people wouldn't, I believe that with proper shot placement and simply having a pistol would stop most threats.

People don't like to be shot, they don't like the idea of being shot. Most criminals would turn tail at seeing ANY gun.

[Erich]

Personally, I consider the .380 too light a caliber to trust. It has neither bore diameter, mass, nor velocity going for it. As light as I'll personally go is a 158-gr .38 spl +P out of a snub, which at least has decent sectional density. (Unlike a lot of folks, I'm not at all excited about the new Gold Dot 135-grain bullet - I don't especially care how much it expands - I'm more into guaranteed penetration.)

But I rarely carry anything less powerful than a .45 acp.

You know, for your situation, a .38 snub in a pocket might just work. Sis wouldn't spot it, and it would beat a .380. (The 228 is a great gun, though, isn't it? :) )

[Tom Servo]

The 228 is a great gun, though, isn't it?
You, sir, are the master of understatement;)

I've actually considered a .22. A friend has one of the new short-barrel Walthers that I may buy from him. With a .22, I could certainly place my shots easily, but I'm wondering if that's still enough.

[xdoctor]

The .380 is a great caliber. I've had more luck teaching women to shoot with mine than with any other gun. However, I wouldn't trust my life to it. This is mostly due to the fact that I have a recurring dream that "They're coming to get me." When I shoot them with the .380 in the dream it always bounces off.:eek: Probebly wouldn't happen in real life, but damn that would suck.

For something small and light I'd consider the Kimber Ultra or Pro Carry. With your size, you shouldn't have any problem at all concealing it.

[critter]

My personal 'minimum' is the 9mm. I own and carry a Kahr MK9 in the summer.

[mtnbkr]

My CCW is a Kel-Tec P32 (1000rnds and counting!). If I were to replace it with a different gun, I would get a Kahr PM9 or some variant of lightweight snubby.

Chris

[mete]

Having shot numerous 4 legged things with various cartridges I will say that the 380 doesn't interest me. When I first started carrying( back in the dark ages) the choice was a full sized gun,1911 or BHP or if you wanted something small a 380. But now there are a number of good small 9mm or even 40s so I consider the 380 obsolete. The 9mm is about twice as effective as the 380 and the 40 is about the same as the 45 from my experience. So pick a Kahr or small SIG whatever fits your hand better.

[PaladinVC]

A .357 snubby, while not fun to practice with (my trigger finger always bleeds from bouncing around in the trigger guard after ten cylinders or so) is a potent piece of gun in a small, convenient package. With the added benefit of being able to do some practice with cheaper, milder .38 loads, it's a great compromise between power and concealability.

[Mulliga]

The .380 is a decent defensive round. As others have noted, it probably isn't the best choice for general defense, but for deep concealment, it simply can't be touched. A Bersa Thunder or a Kahr in the hand is worth a USP at home. Also consider getting a Bulgarian Mak in 9mm Makarov - buy ammo in bulk online if you're worried about availability.

I wouldn't mind carrying a .22, especially a nice Ruger or Browning autoloader. As I understand it, rimfires are inherently less reliable than a centerfire pistol, so it wouldn't be something I'd place 100% faith in, but the first rule of gunfighting...

Let's face it. How many people have ever actually had to shoot someone with their carry gun? Not too many, and polls here on THR bear this out. Oft-cited studies like Kleck's and Lott's seem to indicate that if you just point something that looks like a gun at the average criminal, they will run away nine times out of ten.

[Eaker]

A .380 with MagSafe ammo is something that I don't want to be shot with.

380 ACP #380 MAX+P+ 52

1,720fps / 342 -SIG P-230;

1,620fps / 303 -Colt Mustang


MagSafe Performance (http://yp.bellsouth.com/sites/magsafeammo/page3.html)

BTW, I carry a .380 when my Glock 27 just can't be hidden well enough.

[mondocomputerman]

The smallest I would go with is a 9mm. I know the platform isn't quite as small as the 380, but a bit more effective.

[Russ]

I think the .380 is a good choice if your clothes don't allow you to carry a larger caliber pistol. For all of those who don't like it I would challenge them to take a hit with one.

For a very light reliable .380, go with the Kel-Tec P-3AT.

[Jick42]

The smallest round that I would feel comfortable carrying would be 9mm.
But i am looking at a new Kimber Ultra Carry in .45, and that makes me feel MUCH more comfortable.

[armoredman]

I carried a CZ70 in .32 for a while - it was cheap, and an excellent pistol, but the round left a lot to be desired. I carry a full size Witness 40 concealed now - choice of holster and carry location as well as modifying clothing styles can go a long way to conceal a good sized pistol.
If you want to carry a small pistol, then simply practice until shot placement is second nature - that wins gun battles.

[RWK]

.38 Special or 9x19mm, both probably +P.

[WhoKnowsWho]

Whatever gun I can carry, I will trust my life to, since it is on me and not in the safe...

Normally I carry a puny Kel Tec P32, in the winter sometimes, a Para Carry .45.

Still haven't found the perfect carry method for the summer when I am busy drowning in my own sweat, that's why the P32 is the always gun.

[Third_Rail]

To all of you who say you'd trust a .38 spl more than a .380 ....

They have the same energy/stopping power when both loaded to standard pressures, IIRC.

What's the huge difference that you'll trust the .38 spl more?

[k8ysv]

Like some, I'm from the school of thought that says a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45 (or not having a gu at all because you left it at home). When you need it, you NEED it. Anything is better than a rock. As much as it pains me to say it, even a Hi-point is better than a rock in a pinch.

I've got my normal carry guns, my Glock23, 5906TSW and will soon have my Kimber Tactical Pro II, but I believe I'll always keep the Bersa .380 handy just in case. At self defense range, I CAN put the rounds where I want them.

As for your sis and her hubby, you might approach them from the angle that if they REALLY feel strongly against guns, what better way to lend credibility to their arguments than by saying "Yes, I've actually shot firearms." They owe it to themselves to find out as much as they can about that which they speak. You know, the whole Sun Tzu "Know thy enemy" thing. Once you've got them at the range they won't be able to keep from becoming hooked. At the very least, they may start to see flaws in their thoughts and pre-concieved notions about guns.

Luck to you!

[gggman]

My main carry peices are either a 9mm or a .357 mag. When deep concealment is necessary, then I carry a S&W 342PD in a pocket holster. That's 5 rds. of 38spl +P in an 11 oz. gun. I'd carry a 380 if that's all I had, as any gun is better than no gun, but wouldn't feel very well armed with 380.

[Dain Bramage]

My smallest carry gun is a FEG BR-61 with 6+1 9mm Mak rounds. I really like this little all-steel pistol, and if I didn't trust it, I wouldn't carry it.

[strambo]

The Kahr K9 series looks nice, but a bit chubby.

I love my K9. Great gun, 100% reliable and easy to shoot. It is a little heavy (~25 oz, unloaded) because it is all steel which makes it easy to shoot fast and accurately and it will hold up to many thousands of practice rounds. It sure ain't chubby size wise, very slim and easy to conceal under a T shirt, you just need a good holster. The only problem you'll have with concealment w/ your family is if they hug ya...even then there are techniques to avoid that (reach low around the waist so they have to go high;) )

If they discover your evil inanimate object then you get to have an enlightening discussion about personal responsibility and protection with them.:D

Normally, I'd think a .380 in the pocket is fine, but to go into a known bad neighborhood...:uhoh: I'd take the Sig, or something at the level of the Kahr K/P 9 minimum.

[firearms_instructor]

I'm perfectly comfortable with my Star Model S .380 as a concealed carry piece. It's a locked-breech 1911 design, 8rd magazine, and the grip is long enough to take my pinkie along for the ride (unlike most other concealable mouse guns). It's flatter than the Kahr or Kel-Tecs, IIRC, and my wife loves hers. They're accurate and way easy to shoot. I keep Hydra-Shocks and Golden Sabers in them for defensive purposes.

Too bad Star Bonifacio Echeverria of Spain stopped making them (they went out of business, last I heard).

[Erich]

Third Rail,

You're probably off base when you equate energy with stopping power: certainly they are related, but the highest KE load is not necessarily the best stopper. You might want to cruise www.firearmstactical.com to see what I mean. The big deal is that the heavier .38 spl 158-gr bullet is more capable of penetrating to get to the good stuff.

cheers, erich

[Third_Rail]

Thanks for the link, Erich.

I'm checking it out now.

[Unlucky]

If you're going .22, make it a wheelgun. I find that most .22 has a fail-to-fire rate of 1-2%. I can usually pop'em again and they fire (uneven primer compound spun into the rim), but that's no good for dangerous targets, esp. with a semi.

Centerfire is the way to go and I say .32 is a minimum cartridge.

[Topgun]

My reason for preferring the .38 spl is that it is in a revolver. Every time go bang. No mag springs. Bad primer? Pull again. Stovepipe? Only if the BG is in an oven.

I ...."trust"....NO semi auto. Only revolver failures I have ever had was MY reload once where I had put no powder in and almost ANY Federal lot. My reload was worse as the primer drove the bullet partway into the forcing cone. Federals generally just fail to go off at all. Very RARELY but enough to make me use other brand for carry.

[Jim PHL]

Whenever I consider the caliber question I tend to feel undergunned with anything. Consider the circumstance. If you need it for self defense you'll most likely need it to STOP someone, not just threaten them. Most people will 'give it up' if someone points a .22 or even a BB gun at their eye, because no one WANTS to be shot with ANYTHING. (Clark Griswold: "Yes it could, it could break the skin and cause a really bad infection!")

But once again, in a situation where you may be forced to defend yourself with a firearm, you need something that will STOP some one who is already in the mode of attacking you, with their attitude, adrenaline and possibly other substances already in high gear. I'm sure we don;t want to go down that road, but if I consider that, I want my .45!

That being said, I almost always have my .380 in my pocket, especially when mode of dress or other circumstance will not allow something on or in the belt. (At SD distance, I can put 7 -95 grain hollowpoints into a paper plate in 3 or 4 seconds.) But I get angry with myself if I'm settling for that because it's easier to carry when my mode of dress would allow me to carry the .45 that day.

[ruger357]

NAA .380.

[Dex Sinister]

The .380 is a decent defensive round. As others have noted, it probably isn't the best choice for general defense, but for deep concealment, it simply can't be touched. A Bersa Thunder or a Kahr in the hand is worth a USP at home. Also consider getting a Bulgarian Mak in 9mm Makarov - buy ammo in bulk online if you're worried about availability.

As much as I like target shooting with my four Maks, - and the Bersa Thunder is a lovely pistol in my view, as well - the external dimensions of either are nearly identical to my Kahr K40 Covert except that their grips are longer, and both are larger than either a MK40 or a PM40.

I've still got a Mak on my CCW, but why carry it when the K40 Covert is easier to conceal, and has nearly twice the stopping power??

I'd tote my AMT .380 Backup than go "naked," however if I ever have $500 just lying around, I'd replace it with a NAA Guardian .32NAA in a flash.

Dex }:>=-

[Cameron Lamont]

9mm
Glock 26

C

[4thHorseman]

What ever you choose it better one that you trust your life to. Possiably your loved ones lives also.
The smallest gun would be a J frame S&W.
The smallest caliber would be a 38+P.
If you are going to carry, carry something that will work. Leave the toys to the BG.
Personally I carry anything from a 357, 40, or a 45.
You may (and hope) you never have to use it, but if you do, it's got to do the job it was intended for, Because there is no second chance to try again later.

[bill2]

what about a Glock 26 in 9mm or 27 in 40 S&W?

[Dex Sinister]

The Kahr K9 series looks nice, but a bit chubby.

Frankly, though, this part puzzles me: Chubby, compared to what, exactly??

________NAA .32NAA_|_Kel-Tec P3AT_|_Kahr PM9_|_Kahr PM40_|_Sig P228
Length..........4.75..............5.2"................5.3"............5.35"............7.1"
Width............0.93"............0.75"..............0.90"...........0.94"............1.5"
Height...........3.53"............3.5"................4.0"............4.0"..............5.1"

Either way, we're talking 0.15" to 0.19" difference from a Kel-Tec here!

Dex }:>=-

[RWK]

Third Rail,

I, too, must respectfully disagree re .380 versus .38 Special (even at standard pressure -- at +P loadings, the differences are substantial). For top-rated factory ammunition, the .38 Special tends to provide both more muzzle energy and greater mass. All else being equal, that should mean greater penetration and greater expansion for the same bullet designs. I readily admit, the muzzle energy differences are small; however, <100 grain projectile (normally found in .380 rounds) simply seems inadequate to me.

[Cosmoline]

I'd go with a .22LR with few reservations if pressed on the matter. The .22 is surprisingly lethal even from a small handgun. Six of them from a small revolver would be the equivalent of a load of buck shot. The big drawback is the rimfire system, which will never be as reliable as centerfire.

[zaijian]

What do you all think of the NAA .22LR w/ holster grip (http://www.naaminis.com/lrifle.html) ? Seems to me like this would be the ideal .22LR to have.

[strambo]

Remember, his specific situation involves visiting family in bad neighborhoods...and probably in the evening. While I would feel OK with a .380 or 5 shot .38 in general...I never have cause to visit bad or marginal neighborhoods at night. For a visit to a place where a friend of his sister took 4 rounds a couple weeks ago in a mugging :what: I'd want 9mm minimum, and enough size to get a full grip on the gun and a spare magazine/speedloader and a flashlight.

Personally, in this situation of visiting a bad neighborhood at night, I would skip even my K9 and carry my BHP with 13+1 in the gun and a 13 round spare plus surefire light. I would not compromise my safety (or theirs while I'm with them) by carrying a marginal caliber (insert 9mm jokes here:)). Trip to the store, that's a different story.

[jercamp45]

Smallest Caliber I'd Carry.....38 spl or 9m/m, and that is ONLY extreme concealment and back up.
I have a airweight Jay frame that has fulfilled this role for quite some time, but my ladyfriend just got a Kahr PM9 and it is an amazing gun!
Smaller that the Jay, more rounds, more power, easier to shoot accurately, quicker on the reload.
Actually pondering getting one to replace or compliment the old Jay, stoked with Plus P or +P+. Thinking about the PM40, but may prefer the ammo/mag compatability with my ladyfriend. My everyday gun is one of several Colt 1911's, but I cannot fit them in my pocket!
At one point, when I was hitched and had step kids, I was out with the family packing a smaller pistol for 'convienence' sake. We saw a deranged man running about screaming, threatening, and acting rather crazy and PO's at the world. He did not come at us, but the thought was running through my mind that I only have a mousegun, if this a-hole attacks my family and me......got to be VERY accurate, if it is needed. When I got home, the .380 went bye bye.
I have seen failures to stop with decent midbore pistols, so I think I'll stick with the biggest projectile I can comfortably carry(hmmm, maybe I will get the PM40).
.22's? Yes, they will kill....but stopping power is dismal. I have carried them, but would not trust them. If ya think the sight of a gun deters most criminals, well...good luck. My life is not a social experiment to be left to the chance that he MIGHT be intimidated and flee, especially when he has already decided to attack. You obviously have not seen the same people on the street that I have.
All handguns are weak in the stopping power department, stack the odds in your favor!
Jercamp45

[Evil_Ed]

.380 ... I carry a Kel Tec P3AT in .380 every day, use a pocket holster. There has never been anyone who detected that I was carrying while I was totin that Kel Tec.

[Berg01]

What are your thoughts on .380 as a caliber? Would you trust your life to one? Worst case scenario would likely be 1-2 attackers, <10 feet, summer clothes. I usually wear an untucked shirt.

In a defensive gunfighting situation, common sense tells us that optimum shot placement with a smaller caliber beats marginal shot placement with a bigger caliber. Can a person defend himself with a well-placed .380 round? Absolutely! Would I rather defend myself with a well placed 9mm or .40 S&W round? Absolutely!

With a decent holster, I can pretty well conceal a Sig P228 unless someone's looking for it.

I have an Uncle Mikes 3-slot pancake holster that conceals my P228 well if I'm wearing a loose-fitting untucked shirt; don't worry about someone looking for it, but make sure you are in compliance with your state's carry laws.

However, my sister and her new husband are VERY anti-gun, despite the fact that they live in a bad part of town and one of their friends was shot four times during a mugging a few weeks ago.

People who are anti-gun should not live or travel in the bad parts of town; I share your happiness that they are moving, but they should avoid going into the bad areas (the cardinal rule of self-defense)

[crewzer]

I always carry my Kel-Tec P3AT (used to be my Kel-Tec 32). This is usually my BUG with either my Glock 26/Glock 19.

[Ben Shepherd]

My personal minimum is 357 mag. I just won't trust anything smaller.

It takes a lot of practice to maintain proficiency, but that's just an excuse to shoot more.:D


Don't remember who gets credit, but I believe in the statement "Use enough gun".

The one time I had it with me and thought I was going to need it I was wondering if it was going to be enough.
Since then it's always with me.

[Sean Smith]

Probably a 342PD .38 Special.

[Plinkerton]

People who are anti-gun should not live or travel in the bad parts of town; I share your happiness that they are moving, but they should avoid going into the bad areas (the cardinal rule of self-defense)

I definitely think this bears some merit. More so, though, is how 'bout you just don't go over there at night? I realize it may be dangerous in the daytime, but if you can avoid every possible situation than do it. If they feel the need to live in a crappy neighborhood, have them come visit you.

I live in California, and if ANYONE I knew lived in Compton, or (Insert any other horrible city around), I would not go visit them, EVER. I don't care what time of day, or if I was carrying a friggin' machine gun. Just because you have a big gun, doesn't mean someone isn't going to just walk up to you and shoot you, or jump on you, and hit you in the head. You may never have a chance to get that weak .22 out, or that big .45 out. As crazy as it sounds, it'a all happened more than once.

[Marshall]

I own a Browning BDA .380 Nickle. I like the .380 cartridge. I am seriously giving thought to stopping by my dealers on the way home and picking up................

http://www.sigarms.com/documentation/wallpaper/wp_232_800.jpg


I think it's a damn gorgeous pistol.! Feels like a million bucks!

[Jason Demond]

I wouldn't go any less than a 9mm. I sometimes carry a .32ACP as a backup, but never a primary.

[sm]

J frame in 38 spl. ( revo)
Kelted P-11 or Glock 26 in 9mm (for semi)

Ben Shepherd - Use Enough Gun - Robert Ruark

[Standing Wolf]

Once in a great while, I carry my Interarms Walther PPK in .380 A.C.P. It's really not enough caliber, in my opinion, but when you're facing a long recline in a dental chair, its diminutive size is most welcome.

[one45auto]

I agree with sm, the smallest pistols I trust are the Smith&Wesson J-Frame .38's. I won't go any lower.

[greyhound]

Obviously in MD we can't carry, but once I get my CCW in AL (dang the 6 month residency thing for Jefferson County!) I'll be re-buying a S&W Model 60 .357 (I foolishly traded for a .45 Ruger P97.)

I guess some of us are just revolver people.....

[one45auto]

I guess some of us are just revolver people.....


Join the club, because apart from my namesake the rest of my collection consists of revolvers.

By the way, congratulations on your impending relocation! :) If it weren't for my family and my daughter, I'd be out of here myself.

[Tom Servo]

To be honest, I didn't expect alot of the responses I got to this.

I come away with this thread with a newfound respect for revolvers and a feeling that perhaps I've been missing something by passing them over.

[Plinkerton]

Being a 21 year old, I always loved the "cool" look of autos, and still really do. I love 1911's and will definitely get one someday. When I started thinking about getting a handgun, I started looking at autos. Then, as I started reading more about revolvers, and looking at pictures of them, and handling them in gun stores, I really started liking them. I still think autos look cooler, and have an overall "cool" factor. When it came down to the time for me to get one though, I only had enough money to buy one gun. I ended up getting a S&W 686, and am really happy with my choice. I still love autos, but I am glad I glossed over the "cool" factor, for something that seems to make more sense in my applications.

[magsnubby]

I'd recommend a 9mm. There is some fairly small reliable 9mm's out there. I couldn't see carrying a .380 when you can get a 9mm in the same size as a 380.

[Brass Balls]

Kahr PM9, it is small and light yet it still shoots an adequate defensive cartridge imo.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/149134.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=149134&c=549&z=1)

[SteelyDan]

Interesting question, the smallest pistol you'd trust. I'm assuming we're talking about bad guys, probably at relatively close range, and not bears or laser-throwing zombies at distance. Hmmm, personally I definitely would trust a 9 mm., I definitely would not trust a .22, and I probably would not trust a .32. So the "gray area" is somewhere around the .380s and .38s. It's tempting to say that it depends on what you expect to encounter, but the problem is that sometimes you can encounter a little more than you expect. All things considered, I'd probably go as low as a Makarov 9x18 in an area where I didn't expect any problems. The stopping power is, depending on cartridge choices, somewhere between a .380 and a .38 Special, and I could live with that. I hope.

Needless to say, I'd prefer something a little bigger, but that wasn't the question.

[Treylis]

Probably 9mm. (I prefer .45ACP.)

[mete]

I find it very interesting that in three pages of postings I am the only one who has based his comments on actually shooting live things. But then ,I try to live in the real world.

[Ben Shepherd]

To clarify my post from a page or so ago:
Full power 357 is my minimum caliber, the minimalist platform for this is my ruger sp101.

And mete, plenty of critters have fallen to several of my 357's, from the snubby, up to the lever gun. In fact I could hunt deer here with 357(just have to have 5" of barrel and 500 ft.lbs. @the muzzle), in fact if I worked in to 75 yards or a little closer, I wouldn't hesitate if given a good shot.

Note he asked minimum. I would prefer carrying my 44, but it's a power/size vs. concealment/comfort thing.

Not picking a fight with anyone here, just clarifying my earlier post and giving some background as to why that's my minimum.:D

[Zeus]

marshall,
I have one that pretty much looks just like that 232. I bought a new in box 230 recently with a Don Hume holster for $300 from a local store. Very accurate and easy to carry. I personally would prefer not to be shot by anything. I have a various array of handguns and it seems that the two that I always have are the Keltec P3at and the Sig 230 SL. I don't see why I should feel undergunned with a well loaded 380. Most situations are going to be up close and personal so range is a moot point. yes, there is a chance you will have a little distance in between but usual confrontations are done within close proximities. My 357 Sig is an awesome round to see its effects on inanimate targets but with it, I'd be afraid of too much penetration and hurting a bystander. That is my #1 fear. Hurting someone not even involved in the situation. I am VERY confident in my shooting and I'm aware that in that situation, you pretty much run off of adrenaline and training. I think that 8 rounds or so of 380 through the boiler works should give you some time to get away at least. A .22 that draws blood is better than a 44 over the head. If dress allows larger calibers, great but I don't feel undergunned with a 380. Not the biggest and baddest but is enough to help you get your butt out of a pinch. Just my opinions. GS

[Coffee357]

As an anti-personnel round I would trust a .380 and nothing smaller (though you use what you got). That being said I don't use anything other than 9mm. This is due to the fact that the guns are just as small, the pistol is generally of a locked breech design that lessens recoil, and the ammunition is much cheaper. Just can't seem to find any reason to downgrade to a .380. I have considered picking up a few revolvers in .38/.357 but they don't match the size efficiency of the S&W 3913's, Glock 26's and 19's, Springfield Armory XD-9, or the Sig P239.

Just my thoughts...

Coffee

[lee n. field]

If I were old enough to carry

Interesting meme. Hmmm.

"In Illinois, noone is old enough to carry." ie., we're treated as children.

To the question at hand: I had a chance to shoot a micro-Glock in.40 (I forget the exact model) a couple Saturday's ago. I think that would do nicely.

[La Pistoletta]

Snubby .357mag? Or Sub-compact .357SIG?

[SouthpawShootr]

I regularly carry a NAA Guardian .380. I recently bought a Kel-Tec 3AT that might replace the Guardian. Most often I have my 642 (.38+P) or Glock 26 with me.

[rappa]

I recently switched my carry from a Glock36 to a S&W642. I've been an auto guy since the day I became legal to buy a handgun (12 years ago). I wanted to try something different, considering the heat and humidity down here and my mode of dress (shorts and Tshirt). I fully trust the 642 to do it's job as long as I do my part and put the lead where it needs to go! I wouldn't go any smaller than .38.

[rappa]

Tried to delete. Won't let me.:confused:

[rappa]

Server barfed.:eek:

[45R]

A Ruger SP101 in the .357Mag variety would be nice.

I also have a XD9Subcompact. Both are nice for hiding.

[MyRoad]

Used to be my P232/.380 until I got a Kahr PM9 - now I feel like there's no reason to go with less than a 9mm +P.

[Missouri Mule]

My first choice is a Compact 1911 in .45 "ACP". I can cover it fairly easily with a moderately loose shirt. The only problem I have is when I sit or have to bend over. Then the butt prints slightly.

That being said, I just purchased a new PM9. To me this particular pistol appears to be the perfect blend of size, weight and caliber.

I have never liked the 9mm in a large frame pistol.

also I am in the process of buying a P3AT.
This time of year and my typical style, or lack of style, of dress normally makes it difficult to conceal much more than a pocket pistol.

I will have one of these fine little pistols with/on me any time I am not at work.

[ducktapehero]

I guess a lot of it depends on where I'm at. In my town I would be content carrying something smaller than if I were in Downtown Kansas City. Where I live I would carry a NAA 22mag or a 32 but in KC I want at least a 38.

The most dangerous thing I would probably face where I live is maybe a copperhead, or possibly a psycho squirrel. LOL It's a little dull around here, just the way I like it.

Missouri passed its CCW but I haven't gotten it yet. I will but it's not a top priority. My better half has a list of things she wants 1st and if Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Also I tend to stay away from places where I am more likely to need one.

[BowStreetRunner]

.380 would be fine for me
:)
BSR

[sevenpoint62mm]

I agree, most guys aren't going to stop and check your caliber. They see a gun they going to gauge how close they are and how many shots you can get off into them. Then, if its worth it to them, they might charge or return fire if they can or flee. In the panic of a battle a brief flash 22 revolver with a 3 inch barrel looks alot like a 357 magnum.

But I think he means smallest caliber, not smallest frame.

[MICHAEL T]

380 works for me Some times I carry my 38 undercover but I don t feel any better armed with a 38.

[azrael]

380 or 32...I carry rear pocket 90% of the time...that requires a smallish handgun...Although that Rorhbaugh R9s has certainly caught my eye...:D

[sturmruger]

In most cases the smallest caliber I carry is a .38, but I have carried a .22 LR before. Just having a gun is usually enough to scare away the problem. If the BG doesn't leave I will have to shoot very straight.

[scubasteve]

I have a question for someone out there with easy access to stats (I'm at work and they block about 99% of the sites I would need)


How much smaller of a pistol can you get with 380 vs 9mil? Are we talking a huge difference?

[MICHAEL T]

Id say a 38 snub with 158 swc. Myself I would miss the barn standing inside with my snub. That why I carry a PPK/S . Bersa just as good and cost a lot less ,also starts out with better trigger. I like the Rem GS102HPand Cor Bon for my carry ammo.

[tbeb]

Thirty years ago I started carrying a .38 special. Then I switched to a
12-shot .380 ACP. Last year I reverted back to a .38 special loaded with 158 gr. lead hollowpoints. A Kel Tec P-11 9mm would be better because it is small and light and more powerful and holds more rounds. I carry what I do because I don't like Kel Tecs. However, many love them and maybe you would too. I would not consider a .22 LR for self defense.

[Safety First]

The Hard Chrome P3AT in my pocket right now...stoked with Speer Gold Dots:D

[horge]

Just some numbers cobbled from numerous sources...

Cartridge Performance & Ballistics .380 ACP (http://www.geocities.com/bersa_thunder/cartridges.htm)

I'm confident .380 ACP can serve, if you're sufficiently trained towards rapid and reliable placement from CC holstered position (NOT an easy thing at all). If you can pack, promptly present and perforate reliably with something chambered for 9mm Parabellum, so much the better.

Rapid presentation and reliable placement might be more important than the choice between those two calibers, though.


JM2
:)

[ceestand]

.38spl is the "weakest" round I would carry, based on many factors.

A friend has a P32 which, given my large hands, forces me to fire it with the proximal joint of my finger. So right there, the smallest handgun I would carry can only be but so small. Anything big enough to fire comfortably would be able to handle a stronger round. Make sure that you're comfortable pointing and firing the gun before you consider carrying it.

Given the current selection of ultra-compact 9mms, there is really no good reason to choose a .380 for concealed carry.

Even though my S&W J frame is my most-carried pistol ('cause it flies solo to the store and as a wingman when carrying the primary), I see no flaw in the design of the majority of semi-autos that would make them any less reliable. I started out with the mindset that I would only trust my life to a revolver, but realized by properly maintaining my autoloader and feeding it quality ammunition, I could have the same reliability with an additional 6 shots. I wouldn't be surprised if my J frame got benched by a 9mm in the coming years.

[P95Carry]

Apolagies here .... just not enough time to trawl thru all the posts .. so a quick comment .... answer?? ..... Rohrbaugh R9 ... or R9S (as is mine).

Expensive piece but ... 12.8 oz without mag .... small dimensions .. sweetest D/A only pull you'll find ... locked breech ........ AND ..... 9mm Parabellum! 6+1 capacity!

My initial Range Report (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=81781) for those interested ... and here is the pup .... CNC machined to 1/10 thou tolerances. Aircraft aluminum frame .... stainless barrel to hardness 42 .. and stainless slide. I forget all material specs right now but can supply if I get off my butt and go check!


http://www.acbsystems.com/boards/thr/cb_gun2/r9-01_s.jpg

[Andrew Wyatt]

.38 special is the smallest caliber i'd trust as a primary.

[Trebor]

Makarov in 9X18. The pistol just shoots so well for me that I have more confidence in it then other pistols in larger calibers that I don't shoot as well.

For example, I finally decided to stick with the Mak and sell the HK P7M8 because I shot the Mak better and felt more confident carrying it.

[scotjute]

When you use the word "trust", my .357 magnum with 6" barrell comes to mind. However, there are many times when all I have available is .38 spl.
It's adequate and will probably do, but I just can't equate it to the level of "trust" as I do with .357 mag.

[WhiteKnight]

http://www.hunt101.com/img/149134-big.JPG

Brass Balls - Kahr 9mm, $100s in leather money clip, Benchmade knife, keys to a Porsche... I envy you. :o

[Diamondback]

I would carry the largest caliber handgun I could LEGALLY conceal and practice with it.

If your sister and her husband had a problem with you carrying when you come to visit I would explain to them that you won't enter their neighborhood unarmed and "throw the ball into their court".......let them decide if they will allow you to visit armed or would rather not spend time with you. It would be a shame if they chose the latter, but you don't have any control over their decisions.

Now, if all I owned was a .22 auto I would feel REAL "hinky" when I carried it...real "hinky".
Anything below a .380 is you know....."better to have ect., ect."......... If I was to buy new I guess a .380 would be ok for around town if thats all you wanted to carry.....not very comforting if you ran into a "crazy or the "invincible" PCP freak.....but Law Enforcement officers do carry the .380 regularly as an "off duty" piece. If I wanted a revolver a J or K frame sized snub in .38 Special would be swell...... load it with +P 158gr. LHPSWC's or if recoil was an issue, standard pressure Nyclad's fron Ammoman or 148gr. standard wadcutter's. A .357 snub would be much more versatile........if I didn't shoot much I probably would load +P .38 Special's. If I was buying a NEW revolver I might consider a new .32 Mag. if I was recoil sensitive and load it with "Gold Dot's" .....an ok comprmise but not as versitile as a .38 Special/ .357. I probably should also say a .44 Special is also a real good choice for a revolver.
If was going to buy a NEW auto loader it would be 9mm/40 S&W/357Sig/.45 ACP. There are many reliable, compact choices available from Glock (26,36 ect ), S&W ( CS9/40/45. 3913 ect), Khar, Sig, XD Springfield series, CZ RAMI's, Kel-Tec....I could go on for EVER !!
Long story short......"you sticks something on or in your belt and you takes your chances." I breath easiest with a .380/32 Mag. and above, but I would rather have a .38 special and above. Personally I carry a S&W J frame or a Colt Det. Special with .38 Special +P 158gr. LHPSWC's, but I just bought a S&W CS9 9mm.and after I practice with it I will probably carry that from time to time.
......but I am FAR from an authority....this is just my take. Perhaps the most importanat issue here is the negotiations with your sister and brother-in-law !
PS When I hear THR members descriptions of Compton I just shudder..... it sounds like a nightmare...makes me wonder what ? caliber would be enough. Yeh I know......just stay away. I think I will !

Regards

[stevelyn]

I certainly don't feel undergunned with a .380 considering the range that I would use it would most likely be at arms length and then I'm going for slide lock rather than a double tap.
I have a Colt Mustang that I carry from time to time when absolute concealment is prefered over caliber/power.
My complaints with the Mustang are:
1) I think the Mustang Pocket Lite would suit my purposes a little better weight wise.
2) Mag capacity is a disadvantage requiring at least a couple of spare mags (I do keep a spare Mustang +2 mag loaded).
3) I think that during the adrenaline dump of a fight, getting a good initial grasp on the lilliputian sized grip may be a little difficult. Mag changes would also be just as difficult.

As for effectiveness I'll bet just about any holes drilled into the BG's torso at close range w/ 90 grain Gold Dots are going to eff up his medical records.

[russlate]

380 or 32.

My idea of a compromise used to be my S&W 41 magnum Model 58. I shot expert with it with full power loads.

Heck, I have an alloy framed, 6" barreled, target sighted Beretta "trail gun" with 9+1 magazine - in 32 acp for carrying and plinking around the vicinity of the local ghost towns. Why carry a 22 when you can have a 32 in the same size and weight package? And with centerfire reliability of ignition and against contaminants?

But I have a 38 special Airweight Bodyguard that I carry with standard pressure loads for about 200 ft. lbs., and a 380 double stack 13+1 that delivers about the same energy. Nowadays I want something that ( God forbid ) I can handle if I'm down and half-conscious when I realize I'm in trouble. 38 spl. non-plus-P and 380 qualify.

Besides which, in the last month I read the book "Zebra" about the 1974 San Francisco murder spree involving 21 victims shot with 2 or 3 rounds of 32 auto fmj ammo each. 4 of the 21 survived, but 17 died. One victim, an 81 year old, was the only one to try to fight back albeit briefly. Cops were on the scene in less than 2 minutes average after being called. Ambulances sometime thereafter. Granted medicine was 30 years behind what it is today.

Still, only one 81 year old guy fighting back out of 21? Obviously the 32 has something going for it.

[had]

the least would be .38spl for me. i really enjoy my 642 s&w. it is light and can be concealed easy. it shoots nice to. to 15 yards it is accurate. defenitely a close range gun. but makes me feel warm and cozy when my clothes won't conceal my 1911.

had

[Okiecruffler]

I used to carry my keltec P32 when I went on short walks, until the day I thought I was going to have to use it on a a rather largish dog who thought I was wearing milkbone undies. As I pulled that little peice of plastic from my pocket, the first thought thru my head was, "65 grains, this is going to be tough". Now I carry a 357 mag 24/7, still not my first choice, but the 12g just won't fit in an IWB.

[Newton]

The .32 is a surprisingly effective cartridge and you are far from unarmed with it. I do prefer the .380 out of a P-3AT however. I can't see the sense in carrying the Bersa Thunder of SiG P230/232 as there are 9mm and .40's that are essentially the same size. The P-3AT is just so.........convenient.

My own never ending question is whether to use JHPs or FMJs in .32ACP and .380 ACP.

Just carry something, they all work if you do your part.


Newton

[GunGeek]

I think the .380 is a good choice if your clothes don't allow you to carry a larger caliber pistol. For all of those who don't like it I would challenge them to take a hit with one.

For a very light reliable .380, go with the Kel-Tec P-3AT.

:D

[No Trespassing]

Well, I'm in Calif. so I can't legally carry anything.

However, I usually do. If I ever had to use it, I would have to deal with the consequences.

Since I can't risk "printing" or EVER accidentally showing, I had to go SMALL.

That said, What I usually carry is a Junior Colt in .22short.
I know, I know. 22short? and only 5 rounds??

Well, it's literally small enough for me to palm like a magician, makes no print in my pocket and is .99% reliable. I can hit cantaloupes all day long at 15 yards. And and it could break the skin on a BG and cause a nasty infection!


In colder weather, I carry an SP-101.

[Black Majik]

Kahr PM9 or XD9 Subcompact.

Even the Baby Glocks such as the G26 or G27

also, the Sig P232.

[goalkeeper91]

The smallest gun I'd carry is a .38. Of course that's because my Smith 649 is the smallest gun I own. :) I honestly believe that the caliber debates, while entertaining, are rather pointless. I've seen cases where a .45 has failed, while a single .22 has stopped the threat. Carry what you can hide well, but more importantly, what you can shoot well.

[sturmruger]

I have trusted a .22 LR before. It was small and easy to conceal. Of course back then I didn't have the money to buy anything else so it was a take it or leave it thing. Now I think the smallest I would carry is a .32. I am planning on buying a keltec here in the near future.

[Rival]

Makarov in 9X18 is the smallest pistol that I would trust, if I had to use a weapon to stop deadly threat.

I am a strong fellow, and the way I see it - if I can't stop somebody without a gun, some .22 or .32 might not cut it.

[Tempo]

The smallest pistol I feel confortable with is my Sig 239, but because of shear size I have a Colt Mustang in a wallet holster. Plus it is a lot lighter.

I put it in any of my pockets and it looks like wallet not a pistol.

I am no longer in the business that I felt I needed a pistol with me 100% of the time for protection. So the Mustang works just right.

But if the world becomes much worse, I will carry my Uzi in the car with me everywhere and my larger calibers.

[Little Loudmouth]

If I were old enough for concealed carry, I would not drop below a .32 ACP.

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Seems this thread has not sufficiently addressed the actual question, here. Got a caliber debate going.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. This will never do. What we need here is big calibers in little guns.

Big calibers like .357 Magnum, or .45 ACP. Size matters.

Little inky-winky, smaller-than-a-playing-card, super-secret-squirrel, back-up-to-a-back-up-gun, "Hey, that's CHEATING!"-guns.

Like THESE. Enter the Downsizer WSP:

http://members.aol.com/wsp45/WSP2.jpg


This is the WSP (World's Smallest Pistol) shown with a .45 ACP round for scale, from Downsizer Corporation (http://www.downsizer.com/) of Santee, California. These little gems are DAO single-shot hideouts with tip-up-barrel loading, that weigh-in at a whopping 11 ounces. Available only in .357/.38, or .45 ACP, these micro-boomers literall ARE smaller than a playing card.

http://members.aol.com/wsp45/wspcard.jpg

Solid stainless construction, an internal firing-pin-blocking safety, no sights for a smooth exterior, and a simple, robust mechanism with a double-action or trigger-cocking type operation. The operative word here is small.

OA Length: 3.25"
OA Height: 2.25"
OA Width: .90"
Barrel Length: 2.10"

Now granted, you only get one shot, but it's just about the BIGGEST shot one could desire. (Do you really want to shoot an 11-ounce .357 Mag?) The white-metal barrel helps to draw attention to the great gaping hole you present to an assailant, even in the dark.

The ultra-light weight, slim thickness, smooth exterior, and non-printing profile make these solid little tools vanish easily and discreetly about the person without having to compromise on caliber efficacy. Their DA trigger with a full guard makes them safe for pocket casrry, and their size makes it possible to be armed with a Brace Of Pistols, or even three guns to address multiple-shot situations. Unlike more conventional derringers, Downsizer's use a push-button release to free it's Beretta-Jetfire-style tip-up barrel for faster reloading than the usual Remington-format derringer. (At least I think so. I've never handled one of these guns, as they're not on the Cal-DOJ safety-approved Extortion list and are therefore UNAVAILABLE in this stupid state. :fire: )

Hey, you asked for the SMALLEST guns I'd trust. I trust .45's. Big things can come in small packages.

Oh, and despite my effusive enthusiasm, I don't actually work for Downsizer Corp. I just like their products. An 11-ounce .45 ACP moneyclip? what's not to like? (Other than the fact that I can't buy 3 or 4, that is.)

Edit: Whoa! Hey! The guns might be small, but the pics on their page came in a bit on the obese side. Perhaps one of our tech-savvy staff can assist with this, as it's beyond my meager skills.

[Sunspot]

I like my Colt Pocket Nine for pocket carry. I made some slim wood grips to replace the fat rubber grips that came with the pistol. Also, I can present faster without worring that the rubber grips will stick to my pocket or holster. I traded up from a AMT .380. The AMT was a nice little shooter but I wanted a bit larger caliber.
BTW, that Rorhbaugh R9 looks real nice.

Sigh, when will Colt start making pocket pistols again.

[jetman]

I feel much safer with my Kahr PM9 full of +P rounds. I'd really rather be carrying my Kimber Tactical Ultra II .45, but in these hotter summer months the Kahr is much easier to hide.

[Drjones]

If I were old enough to carry, I'd trust my life to a 22lr pistol. Although most people wouldn't, I believe that with proper shot placement and simply having a pistol would stop most threats.


If you were old enough to carry, you'd know better than to carry a .22 for defense.

[Drjones]

People don't like to be shot, they don't like the idea of being shot. Most criminals would turn tail at seeing ANY gun.


I wouldn't want to be shot with an Airsoft gun. Those things sting.

Sure as heck doesn't mean I'd carry one for defense though.

[Zach S]

If you were old enough to carry, you'd know better than to carry a .22 for defense. Dont hold back now...

My smallest carry gun is an officer's model (para companion), although my primaries are a GM colt and a 4 kimber. I have a .38 snub, but never carry it. So, to have a small carry gun, I traded my glock in on a Kahr PM9. Probably pick it up next friday.

I woulnt mind having a WSP, but thats a lot of cash for one shot. I doubt I'd carry it if I had it

[DF357]

the .32 H&R Magnum in a j-frame. 6 shots and velocity and energy ratings real close to a .38+p . When I don't have my .45 with me, I have this 11 oz beauty:

http://www.oldcolonymodelt.com/332lg.jpg

[Dominic]

How much is ammo for that .32 H&R?

[DF357]

The last box of Federal JHP I got was nearly $10 for a box of 20, but I use reloads (lead SWC) for self defense practice that I found for $7 box 50. Mostly I use .32S&W long for plinking with it - it's reasonable - can't remember what I paid. I haven't used any regular .32 yet. I' think I'll try some soon. I understand that .32 auto will work as it's a semi rim. Gotta try that too. You have a pretty good choice of ammo with a .32 . I have to pay whatever the shops want as I can't buy over the internet being from Mass.

[MR.G]

Smallest gun that I feel comfortable with is a Kel-Tec P-3AT .380. Although I have carried a NAA .22 mini revolver when ultimate concealment was necessary.

[Dominic]

That would be my colt mustang, shown below. Freshly parkerized by a local gunsmith

http://dombosco.home.insightbb.com/stangspyder.jpg

[Onmilo]

Trust this,
If you have the misfortune of finding yourself in a gunfight it won't matter what caliber firearm you are packing, it isn't going to be big enough!

[Dark Tranquility]

Glock 26. I carry smaller but don’t trust it.

I have no personal experience with revolvers, but would probably trust one of those Ruger SP101s.

Dan

[tavo94]

The smallest pistol I carry is my back up S&W 3913; that´s a 9mm pistol with a 8 rounds capacity mags. Really like it, and it shoot pretty dawm good for a 3.5 inch barrel pistol.

Tried some other pistols before but did not liked them (Beretta 84F and Glock 36).

[carebear]

Another vote for the Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Show me a 9mm anywhere near as small and slim, with 6+1 rounds on tap and so light you can hang it on the back of your tie. I have no more doubts about .380 than I do, in general, about any pistol caliber.

Just saw a Rorbaugh today, comes close but still bigger in every way.

Depending on the dress code, my other "smallest" option is the .38 Taurus Ti.

I guess if I was dressed so I could carry something a little larger, like a Kahr or Pocket Nine or Rorbaugh, I could carry my LW Cmdr. without any more trouble.

Did I mention I like light guns? :p

[Sven]

http://www.imageseek.com/sven/gallery/albums/firearms/trio.sized.jpg

Take your pick.

Any of these would 'stop' a typical creep, just fine.

Does anyone have the percentage of successful self-defense events where no shots were fired?

[readyfire]

If i were able to carry in maryland,id trust my bersa 380,simply because i know i can shoot it accurately and quickly.Maybe not in a real case where nerves are a factor,but i know in practice i can place my shots very well quickly and with one hand if need be.But then again if i were able to carry id carry my fullsize 1911 in 45.

[ninjaj448]

I don't carry often but when I 'have the feelin', it's the 642 w/ smooth wooden grips in the front pocket. No worrying about safetys or hammers hanging up; just point and pull the trigger. To me, that is important with all the stuff going through ones mind in the moment of truth. Heck, I can shoot it right through the pocket if necessary or if I don't want to get my hands cold.

[NMshooter]

For defense, any small reliable 9mm will do. For offense, a .22LR in the ear gets the job done.

[ezypikns]

It is, however, always with me (Kel-Tec P-32).

[Amp]

Hey I need some help.
Im going to be getting a concealed carry gun soon, and Ive been shopping around. Ive decided on the Ruger LC series, but I dont know which to get. The LCP or the LCR? The revolver is a bit more expensive, but everyone Ive talked to has said its safer. Any advice?

thanks!

[Madcap_Magician]

If the Kahr K9 is chubby to you, then your next choice might be a knife. Those Kahrs are thinner than any gun this side of a Kel-Tec. The P9 is marginally thinner than the K9, though. Try that.

[logical]

I can pocket carry my Rohrbaugh 9mm in almost anything I'd wear in public....so i see no reason to look at smaller calibers.

[searcher451]

I often carry a .25 Beretta Jetfire as a BUG. It's not ideal, perhaps, but the doggone thing works every time. Say what you want, but you wouldn't want to get shot with it.

[SwampWolf]

Blow the dust off this thread! :)

If only they could put a 9mm cartridge in the body of a Kel Tec 3AT... I guess you'd need a shoe horn to pull that off.

[David E]

There is a big difference between offensive and defensive when it comes to caliber selection.

If the most someone can handle is a .22, then it's a good choice.

But, if they could handle something larger but choose not to, they are ignorant.

Folks like this tend to think that "a gun is a gun is a gun," or, in this case, " a bullet is a bullet is a bullet." That is, they think that ANY bullet (.22) will perform like any other bullet (.45 JHP)

This is simply not the case.

If money is an issue, a used .38 or .357 with a 2 or 3 inch barrel can be found for the same or less than that Walther P-22 (cool gun tho it is!)

Ammo isn't that expensive when .38's are purchased and is far ahead of a .22 handgun for defensive purposes.

The smallest gun/caliber I'd ever carry on purpose as a primary is a Kahr P-9 with at least one reload, if not two, on the belt.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Taurus PT 145

[colorado_handgunner]

Kel Tec .32 as smallest.
Ruger LCP .380 preferred.
Both can go in a jeans pocket, and carry 6-7 rounds, enough to stop about 2-3 attackers in my mind, if your shot placement is good.

[ScareyH22A]

I jumped in skeptically on my purchase of the PM9. I wasn't a PM9 fanboy or anything. I just wanted a small pistol that I could keep on me concealed while at work.

I was actually about to buy a S&W 642. Now THAT I can say I'm a fanboy of. Mainly because it's a revolver and I believe revolvers are reliable as they get. It's small, relatively inexpensive, hammerless, and just plain legendary.

But last minute, I decided to buy the PM9 when I was told that a nearby store had one in stock. I appreciated the fact that it's smaller and slimmer as well as being able to use 9mm ammo. And since it's a semi, I can carry an extra mag and reload a bit quicker. Not to mention that it held 6+1 in the standard mag and 7 in the extended mag vs 5 in the J-frame.

But the 9mm really won me over on the decision. I really believe that shot placement is key but a 9mm is a much more destructive load. And being able to use ammo interchangeably with my other 9 made it an obvious choice.

Before I ever got to shoot it, I read a lot of stuff online and mine was a newer batch with all the bugs worked out so I didn't expect any problems but everyone and I mean EVERYONE said that I need to break it in for at least a couple of hundred rounds and during those times, I'll definitely have some FTF or FTE.

Well, 500rds later, I still haven't had 1 failure. And with the smooth trigger, I shoot almost as well with it as my fullsize USP. I think at 7yds I shoot 1" groups. At 11yds, maybe about 1.75" and at 15yds, about 2.5". I couldn't imagine ever needing to use the PM9 at a greater distance than that.

Now that the .380 version is out, I'm really reevaluating my opinion on minimum effective caliber. :p

[kyo]

380 is about my limit. I run a 45 anyway, but I would own a 9mm. Maybe a 380. I would do a revolver thats a 357 or a 38. In semi auto 9 would be what I would be comfortable at. 380 would be backup/last defense

[Dr. Fresh]

I carry a 9mm and sometimes a .38, but if I had a NAA mini I'd carry it as a second/third gun, no problem. I'll carry what I can, when I can.

[Steve C]

I consider a .380 and the .38 spl in 2" snub to be the minimum for a carry gun and they have their place when you need to carry something under light clothing in hot weather. I prefer a Glock 19 9mm for personal self defense carry most of the time. When concealment isn't an issue, in the house or vehicle and in cold weather with heavy clothes any 4" to 5" service pistol or revolver 9mm .38 spl, .357 mag, or .45 acp works for me too.

[Quilbilly]

+1 on the .38 special snub. I carry mine quite often in a Desantis Insider. Also I had a NAA Guardian .380 that was awesome to wear during the summer because it was so small.

[Oyeboten]

As for 'small' but not all that 'small', a Smith & Wesson J-Frame Snubby in .38 S & W Special...is pretty hard to beat...

[Rellian]

For me it's very personal
The only type of gun I would TRUST is one I had put several multiples of rounds through and KNEW it was reliable. For me and firearms, the range has defined the concept trust, (not necessarily the brand name).

[rdhood]

9mm... loaded with +P self defense rounds.

[chuckusaret]

People don't like to be shot, they don't like the idea of being shot. Most criminals would turn tail at seeing ANY gun.

Bad statement. Most people hit with a 22 in the heat of battle don't even realize they have been shot and would most likely continue their attack. You pull a 22 on a BG here in SE Florida he would most likely just laugh and blow your head off.

My CCW is a XD40 SC with a NAA380 as backup and are the smallest I would even think about carrying

[Noxx]

I'll take the 38+p in a 642 over any similar sized auto.

[Noxx]

but a 9mm is a much more destructive load.

Compared to 38+p JHP? Wait, what?

[Clarence]

Smallest I'd trust - S&W 642

A .380 is better than nothing, but it still sucks.

[ScareyH22A]

Compared to 38+p JHP? Wait, what?

Apples to apples... same weight +p and the 9mm will always have more velocity as 9's are always higher pressure SAAMI.

[EMC45]

Smallest round? 9MM

[logical]

You guys realize this thread is like 5 years old right? (I didn't)

[JImbothefiveth]

Have you tried a g26? It won't work for everyone, so try it first.

[mrt949]

SEECAMP 32 .always in my pocket.

[Rxxdoc]

Ultra deep carry for wearing shorts and a tee shirt, is my NAA .32. Other wise I carry aTaurus .38 special ultralight snubbie.

I am accurate with both guns, though the NAA .32 is best for under 10 yards, but the .38 Taurus groups really nice.

[bglz42]

NAA Mini. 24/7...

[Cannonball888]

2.34mm Swiss Mini Gun
but only if I were Gulliver in Lilliput.

http://www.yardwear.net/blog/content/binary/mini_gun.jpg (http://www.swissminigun.ch/home.html)

[colorado_handgunner]

Logical:
Yeah, a five year old thread comes back to life. How does that happen?

[TheVirginian]

.32 is the absolute smallest, but since you can get .380 in the same size gun, I'd stick with .380.
It should have been a poll...
-Bill

[xtralogic]

j-frame or 9mm

[SouthpawShootr]

Yeah, a five year old thread comes back to life. How does that happen?

Blame everybody whose first response to every thread is "search function is your friend."

It's still a pertinent topic though.

[Cannonball888]

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9461/oldestthread0hx.jpg

[tprice]

I'm happy with my .38 snub; it's lightweight (Taurus 851SSULT) and time tested. I'm a civvie, not an op or LEO so if I ever have to pull the darn thing I want it to go bang, and have enough confidence that it will do what it is intended to do -- stop the attack. I don't care if it kills him or not, I just want to be able to beat feet. I've put 300 rounds through it, and have complete confidence in it and my ability to hit something with it -- and that's the most important thing to me.

I also sometimes carry my Sig P250 9mm, but I feel a little "over equipped" when carrying it. Under what realistic situation would a civvie need 16 rounds of 9mm? If you need to shoot that much, you should be running away.

Used to have a 380 sig 230, was fine too.

I've shot thousands of rounds of 22. Fun shooting round, but i really doubt that it could accomplish the above. Also, I've had too many FTF rounds with even high-priced 22 rounds to even consider it reliable enough for personal preference (fired through 10/22, Mark II, Taurus 22 revolver, and Sig Mosquito). So no 22LR mouse gun for me thank you.

[woad_yurt]

I trust all of these. Up top is a US Revolver Co (aka Iver Johnson) DA (caliber: .32 S&W.) Next is a US Revolver Co DA 7 shot in .22 LR; it's great with Supermaximums! On bottom is my P3AT.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/mouse_guns_01.jpg

[TravisB]

I've shot perhaps 100 times as many .22LR rounds as any other caliber, and I know my rapid-fire accuracy is especially better with a .22 than anything else. Which sometimes makes me think the .22 would actually perform better as a defensive weapon -- it would be there more often (easier to carry), I'd be more familiar with it than anything else, I'd be able to fire more shots in a given length of time, and they'd be more accurate.

But then I remember that the bears are coming out of hibernation now. Dilemma solved!

[rmuzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvepIvphWrs&feature=related

Not my video, don't want to hear safety lectures as a result of this :) Haha guy even has a holster for it though.

Seriously, I'm not sure... I do feel somewhat "under-protected" when Im an idiot and shoot all my .357 mags and forget to keep 2 speed loaders full for bedside duty, the 38s would do their job in their place fine if I do my part, I guess but I say that less confidently. For carrying around? I don't ccw yet, so my opinion is maybe a bit uniformed but Ill probably try pick something in the 9mm or .38sp area... was looking at kel tecs in the .32 and .380 range, but wasn't convinced I needed one after picking it up and looking at it a while. That was mostly me not liking the feel of it, not so much being scared of the size of the round. I wouldn't mind having a cz83 in either one of those.

[ronlt55]

.380 or snubnose .38

[Elvishead]

:banghead:3" or 22LR

[orionengnr]

Yet again, a first-time poster (post #123) bumps a five year old thread, instead of opening a new one.

Why, oh why? :rolleyes:
Blame everybody whose first response to every thread is "search function is your friend."
No, blame those who do not take this advice to heart...

[JH225]

Since someone dragged this from the depths.......I laugh when people say "mouse gun" or "It's too small to do any damage", etc.

Ask the same question to a guy I know that was cut open from sternum to navel to repair damage done by a single shot from a .25 cal. that bounced around inside him. Almost killed him, sure as hell ruined his day.

[MrCleanOK]

Amp,

If you're actually reading this, I'm going to take a wild guess at what happened here.

You did a google search for the information you wanted. This thread magically came up in the search results. You read the page, signed up for an account, and posted your question.

In doing so, you resurrected a thread that has been dead for four and a half years about something completely unrelated to your question, and it appears that only one other person out of the entire two pages of posts after yours has realized this.

What you need to do is sniff around thehighroad.org a little more until you find the general handgun forum, and ask your question there. Or, better yet, use the search function near the top of this page. I'm sure somebody else has asked about LCP/LCR issues before, so maybe you can learn from their threads.

Welcome to the forum. Good luck getting this thing figured out. And, as the new guy, be prepared for lots of "use the search function!" responses. Some folks around here don't have much patience for pedantic questions from neophytes.

As for your question, I can't offer any help. I've never handled either gun, and they don't much interest me.

[woad_yurt]

Yes, it's an old thread but people are talking! Isn't that what we're here for? To talk? What's more important, anyway, how a discussion starts or what's being discussed? As long as folks keep talking, there's always a chance some good may come of it.

Explanatory: My girlfriend told me that my nurturing could use some work.

[JWF III]

Blame everybody whose first response to every thread is "search function is your friend."


I have to agree there. It seems like you always have those type of answers. But if you use the search, you get fussed at for reviving an old thread. If you start a new thread, then it's a duplicate, etc., etc., etc.

5 years is a long time, there have been a few new weapons designed in that time frame. So it's always worth getting up-to-date advice, just because as something new hits the market, opinions may change.

I saw this thread the day it was rehashed, and failed to post because of the age. And because I have a couple different answers. But here it goes now, since I'm already here...

...smallest (cartridge) I'd trust for SD-7.65mm (.32ACP)
...smallest (gun) I'd trust to plink with-Baby Browning
...smallest (cartridge for a handgun)) I'd trust to hunt with-.357 Mag
...smallest I'd trust in Grizzley country-.44 mag

Wyman

[CoRoMo]

I would trust a .22lr NAA, but I prefer and won't settle for anything less than 9mm.

[357sigRog]

The smallest I would trust is the .380. I like my Bersa Thunder.

[gbw]

Walther TPH .22, if you're lucky enough to have one. Perhaps not enough, infinitely better than nothing. One spring needs replacing from the factory, then many thousands of rounds without failure. True DA/SA action with well hidden external hammer, it's the slimest, cleanest gun I know of.

Otherwise one of the flyweight Smith revolvers, down to .32.

[mljdeckard]

I USED to say, the smallest round worth bothering with is a .380, for someone who MUST have a very compact pistol. But in the last 15 years, the industry has come up with numerous sub-compact options in 9mm, .357 SIG, .40, and .45. Size is no longer an excuse.

Use what you have, but get something better.

[Revolver Ocelot]

rohrbaugh r9 9mm, my dads got one and hes put about 1000 rounds through it and he says its proven to me more reliable then his p3at has, but for 1000 bucks I'd hope so

[justinvoigts]

A 380 in the pocket is better than a 45 in the dresser the new ruger lcp is a great pocket gun much more reliable than the keltec put 200 rnds through mine so far no ftf's and i got mine for 285

[Cpt. America]

.32 auto.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

another for .32acp.

[DoubleAction]

Colt Defender .45 ACP
S&W 640 Centennial

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/DoubleAction77/1911/000_0004_0001.jpg

Sig Sauer P-239 / .40 S&W / 357 sig

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/DoubleAction77/D%20A%20Autos/239WoodN1.jpg

[RDak]

DoubleAction: If you don't mind me asking:

I just got my CPL approved and I own a Colt Defender.

How is that pistol for concealed carry in your opinion?

Also, what type of holster do you use for the Defender?

Thanks for any info.

Edit: I forgot to say, I'm right handed and am 6'0" and weigh about 220 lbs.

[HexHead]

I just got my CPL approved and I own a Colt Defender.

How is that pistol for concealed carry in your opinion?

Also, what type of holster do you use for the Defender?


I have it's brother, the New Agent, and it carries fine. In fact it's become my EDC, in a Milt Sparks Versa Max-2 IWB. Very comfortable, I can easily wear it all day.

[DoubleAction]

DoubleAction: If you don't mind me asking:

I just got my CPL approved and I own a Colt Defender.

How is that pistol for concealed carry in your opinion?

Also, what type of holster do you use for the Defender?

Thanks for any info.

Edit: I forgot to say, I'm right handed and am 6'0" and weigh about 220 lbs.

Well; I'm using gun leather for my Colt Officer's Model at the moment; Galco Concealable. By way most parts are interchangeable with the Officer's and full size frame components.

It excellent for carry; let me keep touch, I've feeling I can do good.

[DoubleAction]

All Grips of the Officer's will fit on The Defender as well the mainspring housing.

[RDak]

Thanks for the info. HexHead and DoubleAction. :)

Edit: Just put my order in for the Milt Sparks Versa-Max 2. They said it would take about 6 months.

Thanks again guys.

[Ala Dan]

Seecamp LWS-32ACP

[Colton White]

i carry a .22 magnum mini revolver all the time i have faith in the bullet to solve problems its just that with the smaller the gun the scary factor goes down if u pull a lil gun u better just shoot it before they start laughing lol but after the flash a boom aint nothin funny about it

[frankd4]

Every year more people are killed by .22’s then any other caliber that’s
According to the FBI, the question should be what you can shoot well, what gun are you proficient with. My buddy loves 1911’s he has a lot of money in them but can’t shoot with them his IDPA gun is a Glock 34 that’s what he shots well.

[CWL]

That would be my KT P32 loaded with FMJ, since it's the smallest pistol I own.

[Glockman17366]

The closest gun at hand, regardless of size or caliber in a situation you need a gun.
But what I carry is a .38 Spl, 9mm and a .380 as a BUG.
The .380 is a Ruger LCP...nice vest pocket pistol.

[jwPhotographer]

A .22 in your pocket is better than the .45 you left at home, but for intentionally carrying something with the thought that I was going to rely on it for my life - I'd say a .380 is as small as I'd go and feel comfortable.

[skoro]

That would be my Kel-Tec P-3AT. It's the smallest I carry. The other two in my rotation are a 38Spl and a 9mm. The 380 is less potent but much more compact and I can carry in the Texas summer heat. The other two are for the cooler months.

I'm convinced that with the right ammo, the 380 will do what's needed. I like the hardcast Buffalo Bore alternating with Golden Sabers and/or Hornady Critical Defense. I think with the 380, you can choose between penetration or expansion. So, I carry a combo of rounds that will do either.

[dmazur]

Smallest I'd trust? Colt Officer's Model, with guide rod modification to eliminate problem with bushing breaking.

This is still a .45 ACP, but it is reasonably small. About the smallest .45 ACP I'd like to try to hang onto...

I just don't see a reason to scale down in caliber for the sake of a smaller or lighter carry. It seems like a compromise on principles.

I won't state that anyone who does so is wrong, as I feel that is a personal decision. As has been stated frequently, "Having an xxx with you is better than the .45 you left at home."

I'm just not going down that particular road myself. :)

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Smallest I'd trust? Colt Officer's Model, with guide rod modification to eliminate problem with bushing breaking.

This is still a .45 ACP, but it is reasonably small. About the smallest .45 ACP I'd like to try to hang onto...

I just don't see a reason to scale down in caliber for the sake of a smaller or lighter carry. It seems like a compromise on principles.

I won't state that anyone who does so is wrong, as I feel that is a personal decision. As has been stated frequently, "Having an xxx with you is better than the .45 you left at home."

I'm just not going down that particular road myself.


I agree. Modern materials have advanced to the point where small =/= weak.

The older dudes may boo hoo and BAWWWW, then try to stuff an S&W down your throat, but when I carry my mom's PT145 it amazes me how they could fit 10 .45 auto cartridges into the magazine of such a tiny gun. It's also light as all get out, but even my mom has no problem with the kick.

[easyg]

The smallest I would go is a .38 Special or a .380 auto.

[The_Shootist]

KT P-32 with Buffalo Bore's new 75 gr HC + P round. I'd favour penetration over expansion and landing 8 rounds of that stuff on a bad guy quickly will at least probably let you run away or hide.

But thats what I carry when it ABSOLUTELY has to be deep concealment (weddings, formal get to gethers etc). Which isn't very often. When out and about in shorts and a t-shirt its my 642 with BB standard pressure .38's with 2 S/L.

I'f I going into or around Houston then its my G19 with at least 1 standard cap mag as backup, both stuffed with 124 gr +P Golden Sabre ammo.

[XDMfan40]

I carry my Bersa Thunder every time I am able to carry. Its relatively light and small so concealment is not that big of an issue. I use an in the pocket holster when wearing shorts and a t-shirt, and iwb when weather is cooler. For ammo I am using Hornady's new critical defense.

[nero45acp]

I've been known to slip a Budischowsky TP-70 .25acp into my front pocket.



nero25acp

[flyingdeserteagle]

Colt Mustang Pocketlite
S&W 442
Kahr PM9

in order of age (to me)

[kyle1974]

I would HATE to get shot with anything....

obviously, a .45 or a .40 are terrific rounds, but one of the main points of CCW is being able to hide it. Personally, I don't want to "dress for the occasion" every time I leave the house... that's why I think a small .380 is ideal. I don't understand how a 9mm is good enough for a battle gun for the military, but is completely inadequate for personal carry?


although I haven't done it, I've considered carrying my little american arms 22 mag with me... it practically disappears in your pocket, and with CCI +V's, you still get around 1100 FPS with that little 30 grain bullet

[Aquila]

Gov't Model, of course... :evil:







Just kidding. M&P9/Glock 19/P30 is about it.

[ChCx2744]

nothing smaller than a 9mm

[IMTHDUKE]

This one gets lost in my pocket
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/seecamp_holster.jpg

When I am not carrying this one...
http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996508039.jpg

[rogertc1]

A real man carries a S&W M500 snubbie...

[christcorp]

Half the year I carry a Walther or Clone FEG 32acp. And I feel 100% confident in it's abilities. When I compare what that 32 can compare with the 380, I have no problem choosing the 32.

380acp: Gold dot ammo: 90grain, 900fps, 196 ft/lbs. Golden Saber:102 grain, 940 fps, 200 ft/lb; Win Silvertips:85 grain, 1000fps, 189 ft/lb

32acp: Fiocchi HP: 60 grain, 1200 fps, 205 ft/lb; Fiocchi FMJ:73 grain, 908 fps, 155 ft/lb; Buffalo Bore: 75 grain, 1150 fps, 220 ft/lb

I feel quite comfortable with that 32auto coming out of the walther or FEG. The 32 can almost equal the 380, and the 380 and 32 are quite satisfactorily when defending in public and carrying. Throw in the adrenaline, heart beat, sweating, stress, fear, etc... Then take away the recoil, noise, etc... that the larger calibers provide; and the 32/380 can actually be more effective. Especially if you can pop 7 rounds on target as opposed to 2 or 3 from a larger gun because of all the issues mentioned.

Don't get me wrong. The other half of the year when the weather adds more clothing, I carry a SigSauer P220 45acp. That just happens to be my most favorite gun in the world. Plus, because of winter time and more clothing on the Bad guy, I prefer the capabilities of the 45acp. However; in the summer/warmer months; with a simple shirt or possibly light jacket, the 32/380 does just fine.

[Nicky Santoro]

A few years back a local shyster got jobbed with a .25 ACP. He's still dead.

[conwict]

As someone else probably said, it's all a trade-off at some point. That said, I like 9mm subcompacts because at my size they conceal well, period. If I had to go smaller I'd go to 38 spl rather than 32 or 380.

[Duelist]

One of those little NAA Mini magnums

[ScareyH22A]

Yesterday I realized that there's more to it than caliber. We went out and did drills and quickly found out the importance of a good holster and practice drawing, firing, multiple targets, and reloading. Came to realize that I didn't perceive recoil at all like I do at regular range sessions. And front sight on target is the best you can hope for to quickly get off shots on target. I need to practice dry fire drills at home. During all the commotion, I had failure to release the slide release on a reload, I had a mag not seat properly so it didn't chamber a round, one of the guys failed to have one chambered for initial draw, one of the guys almost dropped his gun out of the holster while adjusting the holster position and went to grab it which was obviously dangerous, and one of the guys during clay shooting with shot guns thought he shot all his shells but there was one left in the chamber when we walked off. All kinds of dangerous situations can arise so practice practice practice and keep safe everyone.

[Tiomoid]

My minimum is a .22LR. My basic approach to SD is this: A hit with a .45ACP beats a hit with a .22LR any day, but a hit with a .22LR beats a miss with a .45ACP. The .22LR has a great core density and when used in rapid fire can cause enough shock to incapacitate large animals, let alone humans. Seung-Hui Cho also known as the Virginia Tech Shooter disproved a lot of theory's when he went on his kill streak using a .22 and a 9mm. While I don't agree with what he did, it showed us all a lot about the effectiveness of the round.

[DBR]

I did not read all of this lengthy thread.

After all of the soul searching most of us do choosing a tool to protect our lives in the most extreme circumstances. I have chosen a S&W J Frame Centennial 5 shot revolver loaded with a high performance hardcast wadcutter bullet with fairly deep penetration.

I want a gun I can depend on if the worst nightmare happens. I want a bullet that will do the job regardless of expansion, heavy clothes etc. I want a gun that is as reliable as possible. I want a gun that is difficult to take away from me. I want a gun that is reliable even if I have a weak grip on it. I want a gun I will ALWAYS have with me. I want a gun that has a reasonable real world record of STOPPING an attack as quickly as possible. I want a gun that will withstand the scrutiny of a court if such arises.

In short, I like what has been used by law enforcement for decades. It just works. I am willing to make reasonable accommodations to carry it when such are required. I have shot steel plates at 25yds with the 38spl ammo I carry and several brands of 380acp. IMHO there is no comparison in the "impression" the 38spl makes on the plates.

Just the opinion of someone who has been chasing the best minimum carry weapon for about 45 years.

I also carry my Glock 17 loaded with 124gr Speer GD +P when I can - 38spl is my answer to "better than a sharp stick".

[easyg]

....During all the commotion, I had failure to release the slide release on a reload, I had a mag not seat properly so it didn't chamber a round, one of the guys failed to have one chambered for initial draw,....
Sounds like a good argument in favor of a revolver. ;)

[oneounceload]

It really is very simple - the smallest gun I would trust is the one that goes bang EVERY time I pull the trigger, regardless of caliber or action type

[7Star]

Like everyone else... I love the 38spl in a good S&W 442. I like it in a nice IWB. To me it is ideal. That being said.... this past year...I have rarely carried it. I have my newer ruger lcp 380 in the front right pocket loaded with the bonded remington golden sabers. It works for me and in the pocket holster with the new holster designed to accomate the laser site. There is no L outline...no one could ever know...if they didn't know me already.

[RDak]

7Star: That sounds like a fine handgun. Someday I'm going to buy that small semi-auto and Ruger's new small LCR revolver.

I've got all the Smiths, Colts, etc., that I need but I like those Rugers!! I want them!! :D

As far as what is the smallest caliber I'd trust. I really don't know to tell you guys the truth. I like the .38 Special, 9mm and .45 ACP cartridges though FWIW. Mainly because I've shot those cartridges alot in my life and feel pretty good about hitting what I aim at at close distances.

Edit: I don't have any .380 ACP's but I sure wouldn't want to get shot by one.

[BigGuy52]

My vote goes to my S&W model 637, .38spl + P snub nose.

Shooting Corbon DPX + P's at 21' I can hit 90% of my rounds in the 5 ring of a silouette target (heart), the remainder are lung shots.

Only improvement I can think of is trying the new ammo from Hornady, Critical Defense.

[black_powder_Rob]

my Taurus 905, it goes just about every where with me.

[DHart]

...duplicate post in error...

[DHart]

To the original poster... you can conceal a Kahr PM9 no-problemo with just a t-shirt. While there are .380s which are a bit smaller, the size difference is not enough to make much difference in concealment and the .380 caliber represents a considerable compromise in terminal effectiveness.

For myself, 9mm is the smallest caliber I will choose for defense and the PM9 is a superb delivery system when you are limited to carrying something really small and lightweight. 124 gr. +P Gold Dots or 147 gr. are my choices depending on the season. Heavier weight bullets at slightly slower velocity tend to penetrate better than lightweights at higher velocities. Penetration is the most important function of a defense bullet. If you can get expansion, that's nice to have, but secondary. When choosing bullet weights, consider the season and expected thickness/layers of clothing your bullets will need to penetrate... consider too that some assailants are very heavily built people with many many inches of fat or muscle to be dealt with.

I believe the Kahr PM9 will meet your needs during visits to the sister beautifully. And should any bad stuff go down while you are visiting her, she will most likely be very thankful that you are prepared to resist the bad stuff on her behalf.

[ROBBY.1911]

the one that's empty but still has enough heft to smack somebody upside the head. a bond derringer in .45 long colt.:evil:

[inSight-NEO]

.38 Special (given the "proper" HD load)

[Coltman 77]

9mm is the smallest caliber generally accepted as legitimate cartridge for self defense.

IMHO, a .38 +P could be acceptable too.

Here is a well researched link regarding self defense ammo:http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

[Elvishead]

Op, 2004?

[taozen79]

PT145 Taurus 45acp.... the old 45acp is a winner every time.

[FMJMIKE]

Ruger SP101 .357 magnum!
:D

[LightningJoe]

The snubnose .38 is a small as you need to go. There are smaller guns, but unless you're wearing a Speedo, they are no more concealable.

[Rushifell]

9mm or .38+p/.357 in a snub. The bruised hands after practice are worth it even in the unlikely event i ever have to use it. .357 in a 12oz frame feels like a cannon.

[41022collector]

This question for me all depends on what I am doing and where I am going. In this order is what or how I carry.

Everyday in town use - Para Warthog .45 acp with frangible ammo, as a back up on a chain around my neck I have a North American Arms (NAA) .22lr mini rev 1 1/8" barrel with CCI Stingers. Sometimes I will use the folding pistol grip holster. Note: NAA will add a chain holder on the NAA Mini Rev, just have to send it in for the work

Close to home walks - NAA Guardian .32 with glaser safety ammo in a pocket holster, NAA mini rev on a chain around my neck.

In the car (Ohio requires that the firearm must be visable w/o search and in plain sight). I Use the Para Warthog .45 in a special cup holder Hi Rise holster I invented with the clip having a bright orange polymer bumper for plain sight visability.

I carry many different and at different times back up pieces when on duty, The NAA Mini Rev, Hi Standard Derringer in .22lr, Colt's 1962 .32 acp Pen Gun (single shot and last ditch weapon, but truly looks like a pen in my pocket), I even have a Stinger Knife/Pistol combo, looks like a standard folder knife like a camp knife but has a .22lr single shot barrel as one of the blades. I got it to work really well with some tlc and fine tuning, now in a last ditch I would trust it. I will also at times carry a Beretta Mod21 in .22lr.

The smallest automatic I would trust my life with is the Guardian .32 made by NAA. Over the years I have had the chance to shoot many pieces, many I consider junk guns like the Kahr's, Sterlings, Ravens, New Charters, Jennings, AMT's, Bersa's and that whole line of unreliable pieces. The older Charter .44 Bulldog once smithed for a trigger job was a fine carry piece in town.

I am not a true fan of any of the Glocks, but have shot them and they work.

A Colt Pony in .380 is a nice piece, but truly needs smithed to work right for save your life work. It is very rough out of the box.

in the end... if I grabbed just one piece to carry running out the door, it would be the Para Warthog in .45 with two extra clips in a very well made shoulder rig or back pant holster. It is a little beast that will chamber damn near anything and very very very reliable. I have over 2000 rounds through mine and with a slight clean up, still looks and shoots like new. I did make one change in that I added finger extensions on the clips as it has a tendancy to lose your little finger under the mag w/o it. I sent it to Para for a 2000 round check up, they said good to go as is for the next 2000 with no adjustments or spring replacements.

[m_kirk2001]

.22 LR is the smallest round that I would trust to protect myself in a self-defense situation. I have a North American Arms .22 MAG/LR mini revolver as a true pocket gun.. You could play a golf game with my revolver in your pocket and not even have it bother you or the people you play with know it was there. While it won't blow a person's guts out it will do more to level a playing field in all but the most extreme cases than a knife, stick, or fist ever will. A gun in .22LR is just a tool, and a small one at that, and while no sane person will argue that it has knockdown power, the track record for lethality in human subjects is obviously statistically significant and cannot be blown off.

[bigmike45]

I trust my KelTec PF9. It goes everywhere with me in my pocket. I carry it in a Galco Pocket holster. It is accurate, reliable and extremely light so it is easy to carry.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/PF9_PocketHolster.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/mike_seale/KELTEC_PF9.jpg

[TUBBY1]

380
WOULD BE A BETTER CROwD CARRY BECAUSE BACK DROP IS IMPORTANT ON BIG AMMO .357 IS LIKELY TO TAKE OUT MORE THAN ONE! 22LR WOULD WORK BUT IT'S ALL LIKE URINATING, IF YOU DON"T HIT THE BOWL YOU'VE NOTHING TO FLUSH!

[kmbrman]

Here in Texas, when taking your concealed carry instruction [. the instructors who are usually retired Law Enforcement] put the bottom limit at 380.ACP. I was taught by a retired Texas Highway Patrol Officer . Another teacher in my area is a retired US. Marshal, and recommends 380ACP. as minimum. I trust their judgement. The most deadly handgun of all time according to fatal shootings ,both legal or criminal on record, goes to the Model 36 Smith and Wesson 38Sp. Probably because of the gun's popularity with the Police world and the criminal element.

[Lonestar49]

...

For me, it's my SA EMP 1911 SAO 3" bull barreled 9mm, 9+1 with either 124gr JHP or 115gr JHP..

IMO, the smallest Lw/sc gun I would go with anywhere where the need of it is because of, minimal, very light clothing or very formal clothing w/jacket.


Ls

[CoRoMo]

Trusting a small pistol in a defensive sitch is a little different than the line I've drawn on my daily carry gun. I don't want to carry anything smaller than .38spl-9mm, but if I had a little NAA mini .22 on me and needed to use it, I would trust it to do what I employ it to do.

[earlthegoat2]

If I had two options

1. A jammamatic 45 or
2. A 22 that was 100% reliable

I would trust the 22. So yeah that is the smallest I would trust and it just happens to be the smallest (for all intents and purposes you friggin nitpickers)

[kmbrman]

Yea, any gun is better than none!

[Big_John1961]

LWS 32 or his big brother the LWS 380.

[jhco]

I am a little uneasy to carry a .380 but sometimes its the best option because of size.
I prefer forty for carry but when size is an issue I use 9mm or 38 special, using .380 only as a pocket carry when nothing else will do.

[snow]

I guess I would have to say that I trust my NAA minimag in 22wmr, because it is what I use when I walk the dog at night. It is not my normal carry that is usually a Bersa .380 or my taurus pt 145. It just that when walking the dog at two in the morning I don't have to pants up just go in my shorts, pajamas or whatever while I hold the very small minimag in my hand opposite the leash. I think that it will do the necessary job but even if it didn't the report is much louder than any alarm I know of and will surely get help to coming.

[ZarrMan]

Hello. I am new to this forum, but this topic is one I must add my .02 cents.

I carry one of two guns: either a S&W .38 spl. model 640 Centenial (when they first came out, they were not .357 mag as current production models chambered) or a .380 Makarov IJ70-17AS. Since I carry them the most, I practice with them the most and I have confidence with both. One is carried every day, but realistically they may never be needed to defend my life.

However, I once owned the building where my office was located. When the alarm went off at 2:30 AM, I reached for the 1911A1. I may have been the first on the scene, as the police may be busier elsewhere. Let's be honest here. If any of us knew that there was a better than average chance of needing the gun we carry, we would all want howitzers. Guns chambered for .22 LR, .25 ACP et. al. are nice when the threat level is low. As it rises, we need, want and carry our .40 S&Ws, .44 spls. and .45 ACPs etc.

Also, weather plays a role in what I carry. New England summers are warm to hot, so a potential assailant would be wearing light clothes, just as I would be wearing. So a smaller caliber gun is easier to carry and conceal; and, since the bullet will not have to penetrate heavy material, they are good enough. New England winters allow me to carry and conceal a bigger caliber handgun, since the clothes I wear are heavier, as would be any potential assailant.

Thank you, just my opinion.

Zarrman

[Skillet]

a .380 would work enough, as is the only things it would not stop would be a military man or a dude hyped up on some sort of drug.
and a dude hyped up on some drug is not much of a threat as is they are so messed up in thier senses that they can't tell left from right.
i would really like a walther ppk .380 acp.
just because of it's history and because it's a bond gun. :)

[B yond]

I take my NAA 22mag mininirevolver practically everywhere I go. You can't get much smaller, concealable, or reliable that that. You just have to be comfortable with a .22mag for SD.

My logic is it's better than nothing and would at least give me some more options in a SD situation. I load it with CCI TNT rounds which have a very deep HP cavity that I'm hoping would expand rapidly to at least .38".

It doubles as a snake gun when hiking/fishing (snake shot).

[Dogbite]

I did read an article about a man who stopped a 380 bullet with his hand--held hand up in front of his face before the shot, and his hand stopped the bullet. Another 380 story-A woman caught a burglar in her home, panicked, and shot him six times point blank in the chest. After being hit 6 times the burglar shouted, "lady, stop shooting me!" Yet another where a man was attacking a woman, she was able to put her 380 right against his chest and shoot him once. He smiled, took the gun from her, assaulted her, and then shot her in the head point blank with her own gun, and left her for dead. She recovered. He was later shot dead by a 357 magnum wielded by a police officer. Every caliber has failed, but I'm not convinced a 380 will do the business, but on the other hand, its better than harsh words...I carry a Smith J-frame with 38+p's in it, and feel confident enough with it.

[B yond]

I thought I'd add this, although I haven't read all 10 friggin' pages of posts so someone else may have already said it:

You can 100% conceal a lot of guns in a SmartCarry holster. My BT380 disappears in one inside a pair of well-worn blue jeans.

I use the 'wrong pocket' in mine to position the butt of my weapon up higher and hide it behind my zipper/just under the belt buckle. This position has saved me a great deal of pain when a small child's elbow accidentally collided with my groin, and impacted my weapon's slide instead of my 'sperm barracks.' :)

[B yond]

I did read an article about a man who stopped a 380 bullet with his hand--held hand up in front of his face before the shot, and his hand stopped the bullet. Another 380 story-A woman caught a burglar in her home, panicked, and shot him six times point blank in the chest. After being hit 6 times the burglar shouted, "lady, stop shooting me!" Yet another where a man was attacking a woman, she was able to put her 380 right against his chest and shoot him once. He smiled, took the gun from her, assaulted her, and then shot her in the head point blank with her own gun, and left her for dead. She recovered. He was later shot dead by a 357 magnum wielded by a police officer. Every caliber has failed, but I'm not convinced a 380 will do the business, but on the other hand, its better than harsh words...

There are stories like this for every caliber. Well, almost every caliber. Maybe not 105mm. There are also plenty of stories of people dying from a single shot from a .22. It's all about shot placement and what you hit.

For the record, when I was in highschool an idiot was showing off his 380 to a couple of girls and promptly shot himself in the hand. The bullet went right through.

[Dogbite]

Yeah, there is something to be said about revolvers. If you go to a IDPA type match, you will see jams, FTF, stove pipes, everything. Under stress, people do all kinds of crazy stuff as well. I remember a story a professional guide was talking about. He was guiding a guy hunting lions. The guy saw the lion, and started throwing the bolt, working it as fast as he could. The guide looked over at the guy, and in his frazzled state, had worked the bolt and ejected every shell out on the ground without touching the trigger one time!

[Dogbite]

Every caliber has failed,
-------------------------
From my previous post. Also, people have survived a free fall without a parachute, but I wouldn't recommend it. Hell, when I was a teenager, I stopped a guy with a wrist rocket and a rock, shot him right in the face. It sure looked painful, and it ended the aggression!

[sigsteve]

Mine would be a HK P7. It's small enough to conceal, but a gun that will not fail and is more accurate than 99% of them out there!

[gamboolman]

Glock 26

[oneounceload]

9mm.....especially a Rohrbaugh, smallest 9mm there is - fits in your pocket

[doc2rn]

Sig 232 or 238 in .380 having the tool you need is more important than the size. Ya know there is a joke in there somewhere!

[herohog]

KelTec P3AT .380 is the smallest I would trust these days and I just bought one. I used to carry a .22 Magnum derringer but that is simply not enough to me any more. With it, shot placement is CRITICAL and the useful range is measured in single digits when shot FAST. With the P3AT, at least I have 7 shots of a bigger and heaver round with sufficient velocity to penetrate all but heavy winter wear. Shot placement is still important but not as critical.

[MCgunner]

I have a .380, but prefer a .38 or 9x19+P.

I did read an article about a man who stopped a 380 bullet with his hand--held hand up in front of his face before the shot, and his hand stopped the bullet.

Tell ya what, Dog, you got the hand, I got the .380. We can test this stuff. :D Hornady shows 10" of penetration in 10 percent jello with their personal defense .380 and that's with expansion. When there's ammo on the shelves again, I might try some of that stuff. Rather carry my 9, though.

Oh, and "heavy winter clothing" down here is a pull over hoodie. :D

[Nairbedaw]

Havent read all the pages on this thread but I would say .38 special +p, or .357's ( which is more likely than me using .38 +p's) in my SP101. But mine is a 3- 1/16" bbl.

[BENELLIMONTE]

S & W 242 38 Spl.