[bigsplash1]

I have recently been interested in using 12ga foster slugs from my 12ga single shot which has a modified choke. These beasts are fun to shoot, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to aim the things. Is there a proper method? or do I just have to keep practicing until I fuigure out what works? What are your experiences and opinions?

[MrMurphy]

I'm assuming you're using a bead sight. Without proper rifle sights or a ghost ring, it's more of an art......

With a bead, out to fifty yards, point of aim should be point of impact within an inch or so. Past that, "Kentucky windage" for drop will be needed (aim up an inch or two) it will mostly take experimentation with your individual piece.

My ghost-ringed Benelli Nova can hit with head shots repeatedly at 100 yards from the prone on silhouettes, but that has proper aperature sights for slugs.

A bead-sighted shotgun with slugs is essentially accuracy-wise about the same as a smoothbore musket with a similar size slug, so...... don't expect much beyond 70-80 yards... shoot at silhouette targets, they will give you a larger target and if you're off a few inches you'll be able to tell (unlike on a bullseye where you're off the target completely). At 100 yards, a slug can drop as much as a foot or more depending on the gun and slug, but most drop about six inches.

[MrMurphy]

I'm assuming you're using a bead sight. Without proper rifle sights or a ghost ring, it's more of an art......

With a bead, out to fifty yards, point of aim should be point of impact within an inch or so. Past that, "Kentucky windage" for drop will be needed (aim up an inch or two) it will mostly take experimentation with your individual piece.

My ghost-ringed Benelli Nova can hit with head shots repeatedly at 100 yards from the prone on silhouettes, but that has proper aperature sights for slugs.

A bead-sighted shotgun with slugs is essentially accuracy-wise about the same as a smoothbore musket with a similar size slug, so...... don't expect much beyond 70-80 yards... shoot at silhouette targets, they will give you a larger target and if you're off a few inches you'll be able to tell (unlike on a bullseye where you're off the target completely). At 100 yards, a slug can drop as much as a foot or more depending on the gun and slug, but most drop about six inches.

[Fred Fuller]

splash,

The important thing is being consistent from shot to shot as you try different approaches to getting those big ol' hunks of lead to go where you want them. The estimates of likely outside range for success with a bead sight offered above are pretty accurate given an experienced shooter. I suggest starting your experimentation closer in, say 25 yards or so, then working out to see how far out you can get reliable hits. Shoot for groups, as with a rifle- IMHO 3 round groups are sufficient. Consistent sight picture, steady hold, good bench rest position to soak up recoil, proper breathing control, proper trigger squeeze (a good trigger will really help here)- the whole deal. Don't overdo it, slugs kick and you will be cultivating a flinch bigtime if you overdo it.

It will take experimentation to determine what "sight picture" offers the desired results at whatever range you are working at. Should you have some barrel showing below the bead as you aim over the receiver? Should just the bead itself, or even just a part of it, be showing above the receiver as you aim? Should the bead be centered in the middle of the receiver or offset to one side or the other? And so on.

Also note that the relationship between POA (point of aim) and POI (point if impact) is likely to change when you change brands/styles of slugs. Pick one that groups well, then figure out the sight picture that puts that brand where you want it. Then buy a LOT of that brand/load.

Do not forget that YOU have to be consistent in your shooting during all this, or you will be blaming the gun/ammo for problems which are actually yours.

Beginning to sound like work? Yup. It is. Go through it and it will make you want to hang onto that particular scattergun, once you learn how it shoots.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

[sm]

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[sevenpoint62mm]

Slugs are pretty pointless for defense. Hard to hit anything over 30 yards and its lower PSI has a hard time blowing thru medium hard barriers. I used to think they were great til I experimented with various targets.
Try firing thru a piece of 1" plywood at a 45 degree angle with a slug, then try 00 buckshot (I tried this to simulate a windshield due to high car theft in my area). I found the slug bounced while the buckshot put a grapefruit size hole at 10 yards as well as tore up the tree behind it. Hard to beat buckshot period.

[sm]

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[mnrivrat]

Aiming ?:

"Use the force" - You will be surprised how well you can shoot if you keep both eyes open and shoot instinctively . With a little practice - you will be nailing it !

[Gordon]

"Slugs are pretty pointless for defense" to those who have studied the facts, and/or 'been there and done that', that is a very laughable statement of fiction!:rolleyes:

[MrMurphy]

I know a SWAT officer in CA who was in on a shooting.......guy apparently stole an M16 from an NG armory or two..... car chase, ended up stuck in the middle of a back road somewhere I think? He crawled up where the guy couldn't see him, another cop covered him, he popped up and as the guy began to swing his M16 around, put a slug through the side window, the guy's head, and then the other side window.. the guy was a DRT (dead right there)... messy, but very much terminal. 1187 from about 20 yards.


And as to the noneffectiveness past 30 yards..... being hit by a large chunk of lead at 100 yards will put you down. And hitting at 50-75 yards with slugs and ghost ring sights is easy. 100 is not a terribly hard thing to do from the bench or prone as I've noted before.

[Dave McCracken]

Bigsplash, in response to your query.....

Many shotguns equipped with a bead mounted right on the muzzle instead of on some sort of base or rib impact slugs higher than POA or POI with shot. At 50 yards,POi's oft 18" high.

Many old singles will not shoot slugs well. Some shoot them very well indeed. In your shoes, I'd start off at 15 or 20 yards on a large target with a good backstop, trying out different slugs until one that A, shot to POA and B, grouped well emerged.

When I've shot slugs from these singles, I perch the bead on the top of the receiver.

HTH....

I see little use for slugs in HD, but they are of great value outside the house for CD and crisis management. A cool, trained hand is effective out to maybe 50 yards with them even with a plain bead and the right slug, and close to 100 yds with better sights. Both the S/S on my HD Homeowner's Insurance and the shell belt with the Panic Box have some slugs on them.

[sevenpoint62mm]

Read http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VG1.html, some good info.

Slugs for home defense are just going to overpenatrate and/or bounce off hard surfaces. Slugs are for going deep into 2-3 feet of meat with thick hide not a twitchy crackhead with a shank. Don't get me wrong, a slug makes a nice deep hole, but its narrow. One 15 pellet 00 buck is going to kill alot easier then one slug if you even hit. But your missing the whole point of a shotgun. You want to trust your skin to a single, unrifled slow moving projectile thats fine, I'll send flowers to your funeral.

Your better off with a mil-surplus rifle, 8mm or 7.62x54 for that business.

[Al Thompson]

Thanks for the link. :)

I'm not a fan of slugs for the house, but the folks referenced in the link don't care for magnum (15 pellet) buck either.

They also note that the typical spread is about 1 inch per yard, so it seems to me that at close range, it's a moot point. IMHO, one wants all of the pellets to stay on the target anyway.

Looks like both loads require the old, Front sight, press trigger routine.

The over penetration is a seriously good point for HD. Couple of buddies and I shot a bunch of deer at Ft. Benning with slugs and never recovered any. :eek: That's a bit too much penetration for me.

[sm]

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[sevenpoint62mm]

Some good points, I'm not worried about penetration as much in my case due to the layout of my house but for many people it is a big point. In that case go with some number 4 to 7 birdshot. This is what I keep chambered before my buckshot. At 30 meters you actually going to do more damage then buckshot or a slug because your probably going to saturate every square inch of your pattern diameter with shot and your penetration energy waste is nil. Think of birdshot like a .72 caliber glazer :evil: Perfect as long as your target doesn't seek cover.

[Al Thompson]

I don't know about the 30 meters. I've had birdshot not penetrate birds (pheasants) closer than that, so I'd stick with buckshot past five yards or so.

On TFL, we went around and around with this for awhile. I did some patterning and penetration tests with birdshot. We also had several folks who had witnessed other folks being shot with birdshot and the range is critical. IMHO, out to five yards or so (especially a choked SG) and it's fine, after that performance falls off severely.

FWIW, due to the large number of houses in my neighhborhood, my first load is #2 birdshot, but my engagement zone is both close and the backstop is the 'hood.

[TimRB]

"In that case go with some number 4 to 7 birdshot. This is what I keep chambered before my buckshot. "

I would read the shotgun articles on this link:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/tactical.htm

before I trusted my life to birdshot without some very good and specific reason to do so. In particular, scroll down to Tactical Brief #10, which talks about home defense shotgun ammo.

Tim

[sevenpoint62mm]

My "birdshot" is number 2 steel 3" nitro magnums. If you can take that at 30 meters or less you deserve to live. Doesn't take that long to eject it and chamber a 00 buck. <shurgs>

If you need to see some proof look at http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=shotgun+wound&btnG=Search and look them over. Not all those are buckshot.

Not saying buckshot sucks, its the best takedown (and 6/7th of my load). But for those worried about penetration it might be the solution. Not everyone believes in wiping out entire neighborhoods with a semi-auto loaded with 000 buck.

[TimRB]

"If you need to see some proof look at http://images.google.com/images?hl=...amp;btnG=Search and look them over. Not all those are buckshot. "

Geez. I don't consider myself overly sensitive, but would you *please* include a warning if you're going to post a link like that? Something like this:

WARNING: This links directly to grisly close-up photos of people who have nearly had their heads blown off.

Tim

[lbmii]

A poor man's way to get a rear site on an old single barrel shotgun is to simply use a hose clamp that will fit the barrel. Use the type of hose clamp that is like a strong spring that you have to use pliers to squeeze the two end tabs together to open the clamp up. Position the end tabs at the topside of the barrel so they will act sort of like a wide rear site. It's a poor man's way but it works.

[DBR]

From most shotguns at typical, legal self defense distances (5-10 yds), buckshot only has a 2"-5" spread. It is probably more effective then a slug but shot placement is not much more forgiving.

[sevenpoint62mm]

Sorry TimRB, thats a good point.

[Spinner]

"If you need to see some proof look at http://images.google.com/images?hl=...amp;btnG=Search and look them over. Not all those are buckshot. "

Sorry, I'm a little confused. Some of the graphic images on the other end of that link are indeed shotgun wounds (NOTE: there are some VERY graphic images), but others are photos of simulated wounds created for movie/TV. :scrutiny:

I don't see those images as proof of anything (other than you can see some very disturbing sights on the internet). I thought the purpose of the link was to support the argument that birdshot was an effective close range HD/SD tool. There doesn't seem to be anything on the other end of that link that furthers or supports the argument ... just a bunch of grisly pictures.

Did I miss something here? :confused:

Spinner

[sm]

Spinner-
You know where to find me.
I choose to keep my comments off-line for this subject.
No offense...some ground has been thoroughly discussed. Topics became very heated. Not only in this forum - other forums as well.
:)

[birdv]

I use to shoot hogs with 20 ga slugs out of an old stevens bolt and after 90 to 100 yards your lobbing the lead.