Joe Gun-user


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derferin
May 12, 2004, 10:48 PM
New to this forum, interested in the topic.

I would like to express my views with you good people and ask you what you think the general gun owner is like? If you had to round up all gun owners in America into a single human being what would he/she be like? I realize that this may seem quite impossible but I would like to hear your views on this.

thanks,

-derferin

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lee n. field
May 12, 2004, 10:53 PM
There have been numerous polls here on various demographic questions.

The usual gunowner is male, but everything else is up for grabs. Age, income, education, religion, etc. is all over the map.

LiquidTension
May 12, 2004, 11:01 PM
Members of the "gun culture" tend to be above average intelligence, above average education, and above average income, and in my case above average looks :D

This probably stems from the fact that shooting is an expensive hobby, so mainly higher income people can afford it. Higher income often stems from more education, and intelligence is *sometimes* related to educational attainment.

The average gun owner, on the other hand, is a typical American. Of course, this is just personal observations and is in no way scientific or even a representation of what may be the truth :scrutiny:

Dave R
May 12, 2004, 11:10 PM
As lee n. field says, we're a diverse bunch, other than being mostly male.

I think the things that tie us together are cultural.

-Belief in freedom
-Belief is self-reliance
-Belief in personal responsibility
-A resistance to depencency

Serious shooters I have known tend to be pretty intelligent. I think they were to begin with, but to be a serious shooter, you have to learn a little about a lot of things:

-Physics (ballistics, barrel harmonics, sectional density)
-Chemistry (powders, burn rates, core/jacket materials, etc.)
-Mechanical engineering (firearm design and capability)
-Aerodynamics (ballistic coefficient)

I didn't know what most of those terms meant before I started shooting regularly. And I do not consider myself a serious shooter.

duckfoot
May 12, 2004, 11:10 PM
I'll give you what I have seen.

Male, hardworking, responsible, and honorable.

Female, hardworking, responsible, and caring.

Other than this, shooters come from all walks of life.

cslinger
May 12, 2004, 11:10 PM
Members of the "gun culture" tend to be above average intelligence, above average education, and above average income, and in my case above average looks

.....and of course we are a modest bunch as well. :barf: :D

Just kidding.

Chris

Don Gwinn
May 12, 2004, 11:11 PM
"Impossible" sums it up nicely. ;)

Perhaps you could be more specific about what it is you'd like us to tell you. We do try to be accommodating.

Justin
May 12, 2004, 11:19 PM
Gun owners, as a group, are just a diverse as the general population.

EghtySx
May 12, 2004, 11:38 PM
I have been around trapshooting mostly my whole life as my grandparents (both of em) shot trap before I was born even. They said to me on more than one occasion and I have seen many many time since that shooters are some of the nicest and most honest people you will ever meet. At trapshoots you can go shoot, when you are done just leave your gun in the rack and go do whatever you need/want to do and have no fear at all of your gun being stolen.

When I go to the rifle range people talk to each other and are always more than happy to let pretty much anyone who wants to shoot their guns and answer any questions they can.

In my experience you just can't meet a nicer group of folks than shooters.

El Tejon
May 12, 2004, 11:45 PM
Welcome to THR!:)

Your average gun owner? Look in the mirror, my friend, or at your neighbor.:)

The_Antibubba
May 13, 2004, 02:27 AM
And, contrary to the beliefs of the antis, I'm not using a gun to compensate for anything.


:evil:

Moparmike
May 13, 2004, 02:34 AM
This average gun owner is endeavoring to make Burt Gummer (Tremors (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100814/) ) look like a rank amateur. :D


Like others have said, we are all over the map.

Male, 20, Just got into firearms about 10mos ago (along with all the legal environment's variable surrounding guns), College Student, agnostic, American by birth, Southern by the Grace of God! ;) (odd coming from an agnostic too...:scrutiny: )

cracked butt
May 13, 2004, 05:06 AM
Hmm. can't speak for everyone, but here's my profile

my profile:

Married, with kids
early 30's
have 2 BS degrees
employed as management in a very technical field (chemistry related)
collect WWII era rifles as a hobby
Religeous


My wife's background is fairly similar- especially the married/ kids part.

Taipei Personality
May 13, 2004, 08:50 AM
One stereotype that is not true, in my experience, is that most cops are members of the "gun culture." Whenever I mention to someone that I shoot IDPA and explain what it is I invariably get the comment, "You must shoot with a lot of cops." The matches that I shoot include few police officers. That seems to be the norm from other people to whom I've spoken.

Zach S
May 13, 2004, 09:24 AM
Good point. I've asked a few LEOs in my area if they ever shot IDPA and several replied with blank stares or "No, just my issue glock."

Diggler
May 13, 2004, 09:50 AM
The average gunowners are above-average Americans.

Because they tend to provide for themselves and stand up for their constitutional rights more than other segments of society.

But if you really want to see what a gunowner looks like, keep an eye out the next time you're in public for the guy who keeps checking his untucked shirt on the right side of his body.

He's the new guy.

lycanthrope
May 13, 2004, 10:01 AM
[thread drift mode on]

We always offer the local police to shoot at our informal matches for free.

They never show. They don't like to compete with "civilians". The risk of embarrassment can be too high.....(as quoted by one old timer/ex LEO who now is our MD)

[Drift off]

I think your average gun owner, has a few guns and shoots infrequently or just uses them for hunting. Several keep them for defense, but go their entire lives without using them.

It depends on your focus. Your local PA deer hunter may shoot a few rounds around Thanksgiving and then go hunting for 2 days. Your local USPSA shooter may burn 1000+ rounds per week and spend an hour a day dry firing. Neither example is uncommon in their respective interests.

In any circle you will find those people who want every bit of knowledge and skill they can muster. I think you find more of that type of person here. This sight is a huge networking resource.

That being said:
Average guy of average height and weight
33, unmarried, but cohabitating
Masters Degree in Social Work/Psychotherapy

TimRB
May 13, 2004, 10:01 AM
"Your average gun owner? Look in the mirror, my friend, or at your neighbor."

Exactly. Roughly half of the households in America have a gun in them, so if it's not yours, it must be one of your next-door neighbors.

Tim

Ky Larry
May 13, 2004, 10:04 AM
I looked around the local shooting range parking lot last night.There was every kind of vehicle from a BMW to an old pickup. I know doctors,ministers, manual laborers, and students that shoot. I see men and women of all ages and races. The typical shooter is the typical American.

MrAcheson
May 13, 2004, 10:27 AM
Yup shooters come from all walks of life in all shape colors and creeds. I'm a 27 year-old skinny(but not as skinny as I used to be), single, WASP male with a two degrees in Mechanical Engineering. I shoot most often with my brother who is a 36, not skinny, WASP with a bachelors in English. One of my coworkers is a shooter and she is 23ish, in good shape, african american, religious, with a degree in math and is working on another in mechanical engineering.

Diggler
May 13, 2004, 10:29 AM
And, contrary to the beliefs of the antis, I'm not using a gun to compensate for anything.No one buys guns to compensate for anything.

If they did, do you think there would be so many 2" snubnose revolvers sold?

:neener:

Hemicuda
May 13, 2004, 10:39 AM
Male, mid-30's, responsible, Homeowner, self-reliant...

Started this hobby as a kid... Dad bought me a bb-gun and then a .22 in my EARLY years... (was about 4 when I got the bb-gun!) - still have it!

later on I got a single-shot .22 rifle from him (about 6 yrs old)... still have this too!

Bought my own .22 repeater at about 9... (sold it for a profit, made money for another one!) - this started the true collecting thing for me...

at 12 Dad got me a .12 Ga single shot (sold it to finance an 870!)

for my 14th B-day dad gave me a .30-30 deer rifle - it had survived a house fire mostly intact, but liked to break extractors, so dad helped me fine a 30-06 to trade it for...

at 18, for my B-day Dad got me a Ruger Mk-1 pistol - still got this one too!

Along the line, Dad taught me how to customize guns... (I have a nice selection of pattern-17 Enfields and Mausers all customized too!)

Been buying, trading, and building guns ever since... and it's all Dad's fault! :D

Werewolf
May 13, 2004, 10:45 AM
If you had to round up all gun owners in America into a single human being what would he/she be like? :D

Agent Schmukateli...

Hey Guy! Welcome back.

Long time no see! Say hi to the boys at F-Troop for us. :D

Baba Louie
May 13, 2004, 11:20 AM
what would he/she be like? Wise and responsible. Average in all other aspects.

derferin
May 13, 2004, 11:30 AM
"Your average gun owner? Look in the mirror, my friend, or at your neighbor."

Exactly. Roughly half of the households in America have a gun in them, so if it's not yours, it must be one of your next-door neighbors.

Tim

Actually I live in Iceland and I sincerely doubt that anyone within say a 500meter radius has a gun at home. Several people might have rifles/shotguns up in cabins for hunting.

I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours need a gun for personal protection.

TimRB
May 13, 2004, 12:23 PM
"Actually I live in Iceland and I sincerely doubt that anyone within say a 500meter radius has a gun at home."

That's why I used the words "households in America". Maybe a dictionary would help.

I feel bad now, because I ordinarily don't feed trolls.

Tim

Ian
May 13, 2004, 01:04 PM
To add to the profiles, I'm a single 20-year-old male nearing a degree in mechanical engineering technology. Aside from shooting, my main hobby is bagpiping, which I've been doing for half my life.

I'm pretty sure that most of the homes in my neighborhood have guns in them (most of my neighbors are retirees, who likely have old and very clean hunting rifles and shotguns, and perhaps the occasional old service pistol). In the ten years I've lived here, I've never heard of any crimes occuring. I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours have needed to use the guns that are the symbols of our freedom. ;)

Werewolf
May 13, 2004, 01:06 PM
I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours need a gun for personal protection.

Really? Iceland is a paradise? No crime there at all? No one is ever mugged, homes broken into? The people are all perfectly content and no violence exists at all?

What a perfect utopia it must be then?

Somehow I doubt it... :rolleyes:

Checkman
May 13, 2004, 01:14 PM
Where the heck are these trolls coming from? I've been posting here for almost a year now and haven't seen them around. Now we're getting posters from Iceland and Bulgaria and other places. Is it suddenly fashionable to post on RKBA forums overseas? When you have U.S. citizenship then feel free to harp in on this topic. As was stated before this is a private forum and I don't see how the 1st Amendment can be applied to a non-citizen anyway. Does that mean I have access to all the "rights" of your various nations? :fire:

TimRB
May 13, 2004, 01:33 PM
Now hold on, Checkman. We're all frustrated by the trolling and baiting such as happened on this thread, but that doesn't really have anything to do with where anyone lives. I enjoy getting the views of open-minded people from countries where the problems of gun ownership are very much greater than in America. Hell, from the perspective of most American gun owners, *I* live in a foreign country.

Tim

Andrew Rothman
May 13, 2004, 01:42 PM
Exactly. Roughly half of the households in America have a gun in them, so if it's not yours, it must be one of your next-door neighbors.

Well, on average. The reality is more like "almost nobody in New Jersey, almost everyone it Texas." :)

RustyHammer
May 13, 2004, 01:50 PM
.... let's not forget honest, good looking, bright and charming! :D

Checkman
May 13, 2004, 01:55 PM
TimRB

I know what you're saying and I agree with you. But every now and then I feel the need to rant. Venting is good for the soul as long as one dosen't do it all the time. Out with the bad air in with the good.:cool:

FPrice
May 13, 2004, 02:17 PM
"I would like to express my views with you good people and ask you what you think the general gun owner is like?"

I'd like to express my views on why this is an unanswerable question.

Basically, anytime you get more than one person in a group, asking what the average person of that group is like, unless they are identical in all aspects, is a question which cannot be answered very well.

I don't know where you are from, but let's ask the question in terms of your countrymen. What is the average person in your country like? Oh, you could come up with averages of height, weight, age, gender, religion, political viewpoint, ancestry, likes, dislikes, but the chances of finding very many people who meet that "average" countryman are very, very small.

In a smaller group, say you have two people, one who weighs 300 pounds and the other who weighs 100 pounds. Their average weight is 200 pounds. Now how well does that describe either person?

The general gun owner has one thing in common - they own a gun. Other than that, they group of general gun owners has numerous varied characteristics and cannot be described with any accuracy in any general or average terms.

I hope this helps you understand the problems inherent in trying to describe a large, non-homegeous group in average terms.

Andrew Rothman
May 13, 2004, 02:24 PM
I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours need a gun for personal protection.

Sigh.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/ic/Crime&b_define=1

Iceland has a population of 281,000.

Read that again. 281,000. That's about the population of St. Paul, MN, or about half the population of Denver.

Iceland's crime stats show 4.92 assaults per 1000 people per year, versus the US's 7.70. That makes an Icelander only 64% as likely as an American to be assaulted. Good for you.

An Icelander is only 5/6ths as likely as an American to be raped. Hmmm. Real safe.

In Iceland, burglaries are more common than in the US. An Icelander is 19% more likely to be the victim of a burglary.

Iceland is the sixth most taxed country in the world, at 43% ($12,464.47 per person, with a $29,000 average income) That's compared to the US's 20%. According to this site, "Iceland's Scandinavian-type economy is basically capitalistic, yet with an extensive welfare system (including generous housing subsidies), low unemployment, and remarkably even distribution of income."

That "even distribution," I believe, is the government taking money away from some people and giving it to others.

Conclusion? Iceland is safer than the US as a whole, MUCH safer than Washington, DC, and less safe than a typical rural American county.

Utopia? Nope. Would I want to live there unarmed? Nope.

Is this a troll? Probably. Do I care? Nope. :)

odysseus
May 13, 2004, 02:29 PM
Silly question. Deserves silly answer.

junyo
May 13, 2004, 02:50 PM
I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours need a gun for personal protection.Need is often a matter of perception. I feel perfectly safe most places, whether I'm armed or not. That's mainly because I'm comfortable in my environment. You feel perfectly safe in Iceland; yet I'd be willing to bet that you have more 'a wild animal killed somebody I knew' stories than me. I'd feel much more of a need to carry a gun when there's a risk of a rabid caribou on the rampage, than say, walking around North Philly, where you might feel a trifle nervous. Doesn't mean that either of us can't be wrong about the absolute statistical safety of a place. Also doesn't mean that if I'm right that I don't want an edge.

Further, personal safety is a side point. Non-Americans tend to view Americans as frightened because we hold our weapons as a right. Unfortunately, while most non-Americans got their measure of liberty by waiting and negotiating, Americans got, and kept ours by force. The people here haven't forgotten those lessons; that government is inherently unworthy of trust, that rights are usually only given to those with the ability to enforce them, that in the end politics is a veneer over force. It probably seems odd to a person who believes in benevolent government (most non-Americans I've talked to genuinely believe that government can be/is benevolent, you may not), but most Americans would classify government as a necessary evil; gun owners tend to be more comfortable with expressing that idea than others. Therefore in the end, my gun(s) are a lot less about personal protection, and more a guarantee of my rights and my freedom. They say, 'you can take them from me, but not without a fight'. Not a protest march, not a hunger strike, not a rally; an honest to goodness, knockdown, dragout, one-of-us-goes-home-in-a-bag fight. I consider myself very lucky to live in a society where I have the tangible ability to preserve my freedom.

FPrice
May 13, 2004, 02:58 PM
"I consider myself very lucky to live in a safe society where neither I, nor any of my neighbours need a gun for personal protection."

Oh? And who protected the five (5) people who were murdered in 1999? I guess they didn't need any personal protection either, did they? By the way, that would be 5,000 murders if you were the size of the United States.

And who protected the 73 people raped in the year 2000?

And how do your people commit suicide? If you don't have guns it must be very difficult to kill yourselves (you were no. 41 in this category, only a little ways behind us).

All of a sudden Iceland doesn't sound quite that safe, now does it?

Diggler
May 13, 2004, 03:42 PM
would like to express my views with you good people and ask you what you think the general gun owner is like? If you had to round up all gun owners in America into a single human being what would he/she be like?One word.


FREE.

derferin
May 13, 2004, 04:55 PM
"I'd like to express my views on why this is an unanswerable question."

What I was aiming for was to see if people here could think a little bit out of the box.. Of course I realize that you can't just add and subtract and divide and come up with the absolute average gun owner, I was more interested how you would answer the question. That would tell me a little bit more about you than all of the gun owners in the US.


"Oh? And who protected the five (5) people who were murdered in 1999? I guess they didn't need any personal protection either, did they? By the way, that would be 5,000 murders if you were the size of the United States.

And who protected the 73 people raped in the year 2000?

And how do your people commit suicide? If you don't have guns it must be very difficult to kill yourselves (you were no. 41 in this category, only a little ways behind us)."

If you would know the facts of these 5 murders you wouldn't be asking that question. Furthermore if these people involved in these murders would have had guns my guess is that the death toll would have been greater that year. The people that were raped in the year 2000? If they would have had guns the death toll again would have risen.
For your information I do believe that most people here that commit suicide hang themselves, slit their wrists or swallow mass amount of pills.


"You feel perfectly safe in Iceland; yet I'd be willing to bet that you have more 'a wild animal killed somebody I knew' stories than me."

Hehehe :) I don't even know anyone that knows anyone that has been killed by a wild animal. Contrary to popular belief, Icelanders do not live in igloos, hunt wild animals for food nor is Iceland covered in snow the year around. Winters in New York are much harsher than the winters here.


"As was stated before this is a private forum and I don't see how the 1st Amendment can be applied to a non-citizen anyway. Does that mean I have access to all the "rights" of your various nations?"

Just because I'm not an American citizen I do not have the right to free speech? My country's constitution guarantees me free speech, the idea that I don't have the right to say what I wish (as long it is in accordance to the rules of this forum :) ) here is preposterous.


As all of you realize, the whole debate isn't regarding the guns themselves. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. IMHO I think that most people that really cherish their rights to have guns and think it is vital to have a gun (or several) to insure their protection, I think those people are, for the most part, overly paranoid. It all goes to their state of mind. If someone were to burgle my home, I wouldn't shoot the person or even try to shoot them. I wouldn't take it lying down either, I would make the cops do the dirty work. I think using a gun in this situation (commonly referred to here) isn't the solution. Someone steals from me and I return the favor by ending his life or crippling him? Doesn't look like the punishment meets the crime. On a whole, do I think that burglers intend to kill their victims? For the most part, no.


I'm sorry, I do realize you must have a lot of people come in here, thinking they're the first and start lecturing you on what you should do. Not my intention. Don't want to lecture you good people, I'd like you to get an idea of my perspective on things.

This forum I find more sane than I expected to be honest and most of the people I've read posts from seem very intelligent. Just to finish this post on a good note. :)

Gordon Fink
May 13, 2004, 04:59 PM
Derferin, I’ll give you the answer you want to hear.

The most common American gun owner is probably a poorly educated, hard-drinking, bigoted, “conservative,” white, male Christian. In other words, he is your stereotypical “red neck.”

Fortunately, there are many gun owners (if not even more than the “red necks”) that come from a much wider portion of the American population. Their backgrounds are very diverse, as you may have gathered from some of the posts on this thread. This makes the search for the “average” gun owner as futile as a search for the “average” American.

But I have a question of my own, since you seem to dislike firearms and our right to them. Why should you, derferin, not be allowed to have a gun?

~G. Fink

FPrice
May 13, 2004, 05:17 PM
"What I was aiming for was to see if people here could think a little bit out of the box.. "

A very nice phrase which means exactly NOTHING.

But, if you must, I would state that most most of the gun owners in the United States think outside the box that most Europeans have put themselves in...the box that says that ordinary citizens are not allowed to have firearms the same way Americans have. People over there have boxed themselves in quite nicely. People over here are willing to let other people make the decision to own firearms or not own firearms by themselves.

"Furthermore if these people involved in these murders would have had guns my guess is that the death toll would have been greater that year."

That is your GUESS, not a fact. Our experience has been that the presence of a gun in the intended victim's hand does not have to lead to a death but may prevent the intended crime without violence.

But, if you feel that the death toll would be greater, let me ask you this. If two people try to commit a crime and kill a third person, but the third protects himself (herself) with a gun and this leads to the death of the two would-be killers, is this worse than just one innocent person being killed?

"The people that were raped in the year 2000? If they would have had guns the death toll again would have risen."

Again you make a false assumption. There is a thread here on THR about a woman who was confronted by a rapist (and probable murderer) as she was coming out of a rest room on an isolated Arizona highway. She pulled a firearm and the last thing she saw was the would-be assailant running for his life. No death happened. But neither did a rape/assault on her.

Firearms in the hands of honest citizens often prevent crimes.

"For your information I do believe that most people here that commit suicide hang themselves, slit their wrists or swallow mass amount of pills."

While you did not say it in your threads, many anti-gun people often point to firearms as causing suicides. Iceland's experience, along with that of many other countries, and to a large extent our country, demonstrates that people who wish to kill themselves will find whatever way is necessary.

The point of all of this is that firearms are NOT the problem that many anti-gun or uninformed people assume they are. The problem almost always lies in another area which is often overlooked or ignored because it does not fit someone's preconceived notions of what is right or wrong.

edited to add:

I found the thread about the lady in Arizona. Please read it and let me know what you think.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81408

cracked butt
May 13, 2004, 05:20 PM
Actually I live in Iceland and I sincerely doubt that anyone within say a 500meter radius has a gun at home. Several people might have rifles/shotguns up in cabins for hunting.

Where I live, there are more guns in households in a 500 meter radius than than the nearest two national guard armories combined. The crime in my neighborhood is absolutely zilch. Compare that with Washington DC where noone is allowed to own a gun and the contrast in the crime rate is eye popping.

Bartholomew Roberts
May 13, 2004, 05:58 PM
Just a reminder that THE primary mission of The High Road is to advance RKBA and that one of the primary means of doing that is by acquainting others with the concepts in a FRIENDLY manner.

Here somebody who knows little about guns or RKBA is making an effort to learn. I would hope everybody here would recognize this for the opportunity it is to educate someone from a completely different culture in a polite and respectful manner.

TheEgg
May 13, 2004, 06:02 PM
If you had to round up all gun owners in America into a single human being what would he/she be like?

"Bond. James Bond."

:neener:

OK, I will try to be serious with a silly question.

You obviously have swallowed the whole "gun culture" scam that is peddled in Europe and in parts of this country. There is no monolithic type to refer to. I know it makes people like you feel better to throw around terms like "paranoid" and "fearful", but it just is not like that. Gun owners in this country are from every social strata, every educational level, every income level, every race, every sex, every sexual orientation, every political stripe, etc. ad nauseum.

The right to own weapons recognized (note: recognized, not granted) in our constitution applies to you too even though you don't realize it, and don't appreciate it. It is a human right to own weapons and to use them in self-defense. You may chose to do so or not -- I will certainly respect your right to chose whether you do so or not -- and I will expect you to respect my right to make that choice as well.

It all goes to their state of mind. If someone were to burgle my home, I wouldn't shoot the person or even try to shoot them. I wouldn't take it lying down either, I would make the cops do the dirty work.

You ARE taking it lying down. You need to tell us WHY you are taking it lying down. Does this apply only to burglers? How about rapists? How about murderers? Would you engage in your own self-defense under any circumstances? Or do you even know?

Gad, I get so tired -- the more I hear from our euro friends, the more I think that their reasoning is profoundly shallow. Or perhaps they are so well indoctrinated and hear no other views that they just can't grasp the fact that there is another, perhaps better, way to live than depending so totally on benevolent Big Brother.

Oh whats the use --- :banghead:

Thumper
May 13, 2004, 06:02 PM
Very eclectic group.

The single attribute I've been able to find that's common with all gun owners is a strong sense of independence.

Justin
May 13, 2004, 06:15 PM
I'm going to reiterate what Mr. Roberts has already stated. THR is here to advance the RKBA through civil discourse. Nothing that derferin has posted could be read as trolling or flaming. He/she has thus far followed the posted rules of the forum, and dare I say has been a tad more civil than some of the responding posts.

Asking questions, whether you regard them as silly or not, is a time honored way of learning more. If you don't think the question is a good one, or is confusing the issue, perhaps it would be better to ask for clarification rather than just tossing accusations of trolling.

JShirley
May 13, 2004, 07:30 PM
The people that were raped in the year 2000? If they would have had guns the death toll again would have risen.

Yeah...but personally, I'm okay with dead would-be rapists. Sad that you're not.

All parts of the human spectrum are here; the one common element will probably be higher than average (for the population) levels of self-reliance. Examining the US GIs that did not surrender in the Philippines in WWII, shows that soldiers from the West and South were much more likely to head into the hills to continue the fight.

John

Nightfall
May 13, 2004, 10:52 PM
...I think those people are, for the most part, overly paranoid.
Just because many gun owners make it a point to be prepared for things like rapists, home invasions, etc. doesn't mean they're paranoid. They're just conscious of the fact that nobody but themselves can truly provide for their personal defense. It doesn't mean they stay awake at night with night vision goggles strapped to their head, taking turns with the wife watching for ambush. It just means they keep the means on hand to respond in case of an intruder, attempted rape, etc. Many people keep a fire extinguisher on hand in case of a small fire. Doesn't mean they're paranoid about fires, or sick in the head with irrational fears. Most people wear seat belts when they drive. Doesn't mean they're paranoid about getting in an accident, or even expecting one. It just means they'd rather take the simple steps to be ready, rather than deal with the huge potential costs of apathy. Owning and knowing how to use a firearm is no different.
I wouldn't take it lying down either, I would make the cops do the dirty work.
So you call other people with guns at their disposal to defend you. What do you plan to do if the violent criminals in your home aren't willing to wait for the cops to arrive? You may be willing to take that risk, but I shouldn't have to. :)

Sean T
May 14, 2004, 02:10 AM
Hey derferin, welcome to THR!

I'm 24, white (Irish, English, French Canadian, German), single, catholic, and work in real estate. I would say gun owners as a whole are independent / self-reliant, and noble, of course. :D

Please don't confuse paranoia with awareness. Just because we're prepared to defend ourselves does not mean we are looking for a fight. Afterall, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. :uhoh: :p

You also state that criminals dying is a bad thing:confused:. If someone is trying to kill me I'm going to try and kill them. Better him than me. Remember it's not immoral to kill, it's immoral to murder. Self-defense is not murder, it's instinctual.

Peace out.:cool:

lycanthrope
May 14, 2004, 08:23 AM
I wouldn't take it lying down either, I would make the cops do the dirty work.


The town I grew up in was 45 minutes from the nearest police barracks. A LOT of bad things can happen to you in 45 minutes.

TimRB
May 14, 2004, 10:16 AM
"The town I grew up in was 45 minutes from the nearest police barracks. A LOT of bad things can happen to you in 45 minutes."

Indeed. A "typical" police response time in an American city these days is on the order of 4-10 minutes. Sit in a quiet room with a clock some time to see just how long 4 minutes can be. Or, better yet, time yourself as you drive into your driveway, walk into your house, walk into every room of your house, and then walk back to your car.

Tim

Diggler
May 14, 2004, 10:25 AM
I wouldn't take it lying down either, I would make the cops do the dirty work.I guess you don't like hunting either, huh?

:D

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