[David]

We went to our local shopping mall today, and noticed about the same number of private security guards walking and driving around as usual.

I thought we might see a bunch more security considering the HIGH ALERT we are on.

Also, I was thinking, none of the security guards I have EVER seen working at any mall were ARMED -- I'm talking about NO firearms, NO batons, and even NO OC spray.

I don't get it -- am I missing something?:banghead:

Especially in our post 9/11 world, I would think that all private security should have the proper training, etc. and be armed.

Also, here is a link to a scary USA Today article about private security:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...ity-cover_x.htm

Based on this article, perhaps it is a good thing that most of these guys and gals CURRENTLY working as security guards are NOT armed.:uhoh:

Maybe, if private security paid a good wage, it would attract professional folks who might really help prevent crime and possible terrorism -- ???

These days, I think our safety and security should NOT go to the lowest bidder.:cuss:

Like I said, am I missing something?

[David]

Opps -- wrong link above to the USA Today article.

Here is the correct one, I hope:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-22-security-cover_x.htm

Sorry!

[Pat Bateman]

OF COURSE you don't see the armed ones - They're the MALL NINJAS!:)

[M58]

Security is not there for you, the customer or the merchant. The guards think they are...but actually security is there as part of the insurance contract. So low bid.:banghead:

P.S. If they are armed it hurts the insurance rider. $$$$$$:what:

[CleverNickname]

<Sheep>

Armed guards are scary. I'll go shop at the other mall with the nice unarmed guards.

</Sheep>

[WhoKnowsWho]

My work is funny. We have security and a little guard shack out front. After 9/11, they stepped up security a bit, or so they said. I didn't see any new guards. And they told us to deal with actually having to stop and let the guard check our badge at the gate. That's all nice and all, but what about the people witout badges who want to 'cause trouble! :neener:

No guns, no batons, no spray, no reason. A false sense there also.

[David]

I guess the issue is what we expect of private security -- to either just "look pretty" or actually be part of the safety plan?

I think I rather have PROPERLY trained, screened and paid private security pros whose job is to really "serve & protect" and have the proper equipment to do so!:rolleyes:

Thanks for your opinions.

[Amegatek]

I am a Security Officer for a University. We do carry OC Spray but that is it. We don't even have handcuffs! :eek: The University has it's own Police Department so basically that is why we are unarmed. However, when something happens at a campus location where SO's are posted, who do you think is the first responder? That's right, the unarmed security officer! I have been in several situations where I would have felt alot more comfortable armed. If we have to spray a BG, what do we do then (no cuffs, remember?) I guess we hope University PD gets there really fast! Hopefully, the dispatcher on duty will call a 10-3 (Officer in Trouble) This has happened once before, and the response was very quick. Matter of fact, a city Police Officer even responded. Regardless, I would still like to have handcuffs, and better yet be armed.

[Kahr carrier]

Security-Observe and Report.:banghead: :neener:

[blitzer0101]

Have you been asleep man? The PC way is fashion over content. :eek:

[Amegatek]

Security-Observe and Report.

I have been a security officer for 10 years, so I am well aware of the duty being "Observe and Report" Sometimes, due to circumstances beyond our control, we find ourselves in situations where we are forced to take it to another level. Just speaking from past experience. :)

[Strings]

... ye olde theory of "style over substance". Was good for Cyberpunk, not-so-good for real life...

When I was working as a rent-a-cop, we had a furniture factory that I got to play at after hours. Was warned upon arriving one night that a recently fired employee was going to be coming by next day to pick up her belongings. I was to escort her, while making sure that a)she didn't steal anything and b)that her boyfriend stayed off-premisis (he had been most of the trouble). Next morning, a squad arrives just before she does: after she leaves (with no problem), one of the cops asks if I was worried. My response was to pull the can of OC out of my pocket and tell him "I REALLY wish we had CCW". He just nodded sagely...

[David]

UNARMED private security, I STILL don't get it!:banghead:

I think if we are to consider private security as part of our "homeland security" plan, we need to make private security an attractive job option for qualified folks -- i.e. good training -- good screening -- good equipment -- and good pay!

Like others have said, our safety shouldn't go to the "lowest bidder."

Just my 2 cents...

[QKRTHNU]

I think if we are to consider private security as part of our "homeland security" plan, we need to make private security an attractive job option for qualified folks -- i.e. good training -- good screening -- good equipment -- and good pay!
People will have to be scared before that happens.

If terrorists start shooting up malls etc. you'll get you wish.:uhoh:

[Chaz]

The security industry is stigmatized with a bad reputation because it's low pay, and they attract the wanna be's that can't get a job in law enforcment for various (good) reasons. There are fewer and fewer security companies that offer armed guard services anymore due to liablility insurance costs. Unarmed guards are cheaper to train and license as well. The main purpose of an unarmed guard is deterence and being a trained observer. They are eye candy to give a feeling of security. At one time this may have been effective. but now people just aren't impressed with a uniform anymore and would continue with thier illegal activity. And depending on ytour state, some guards don't even have arrest powers! Thats like having a bull without the b***s. Whats the point???

Having worked in the security industry in the past (armed and with arrest powers thank goodness) not all guards are bad people. Most take thier job seriously but just lack the power to be effective. Having said that, no flames please :D

[VaughnT]

I work in security with an armored car company. We're armed as are our the officers with competing companies. 90% of the employees couldn't care less about that gun on their hip and would present a clear danger to the populace at large if they ever had to draw their weapon in defense.

Mall/Plant Security is no different except that they are surrounded by greater numbers of people who could be hurt by a miss or pass-through shot. Do you really want that person armed when that person really doesn't care for shooting as a hobby?

Cops are no different. I've shot with dozens of them and have seen some of the worst shooting ever; and we're not talking about fancy gun games, just a paper target at 25yd. :eek:

As with all facets of armed professionals, military or civilian, there is a small percentage that likes to shoot and/or takes their being armed seriously and will practice on their own time and dime. Most are just there for a paycheck and shoot only when they are forced to requalify or lose their job.

If you want to be surrounded by a cadre of professionals, try to get on with a nuclear security detail. I'm told that it is extremely hard, but they take their shooting skills very seriously and they pay extremely well. Of course, getting on is nearly impossible.

[bogie]

I've been worried at work lately - stress levels are pretty high, since we _might_ have some layoffs coming... If one of these folks goes occupational, I don't think that our security folks could react well, since they aren't armed. If I hear loud noises, don't be between me and the door, because I don't jink too well when I'm moving at top speed...

[Navy joe]

[/command voice] Stop or I'll say stop again![/]

You want security in a retail outlet? Require your employess to be trained and armed!

[Shalako]

Hmm, let me put put on my liberal sheeple wuss brainwave obfuscation device....Kerrthunk!

But if the security gaurds are allowed to carry weapons at the mall or an office building, then a terrorist could put on a cop disguise and also have access to weapons. I am willing to have unarmed security guards just to prevent that chance of an armed badguy getting into the mall.


Woosh, man that's lameness.

[chadintex]

Please remember that it is the client who chooses whether or not a security officer is armed. Most institutions do not want armed guards for liability reasons.

[PATH]

6 dollars an hour and you want me to use a firearm to engage baddies? Not for 6 dollars an hour. Observe and report. Some of the folks that are in some of these security firms are pretty scary.

Insurance is the reason guards are there and also why they have no means to defend themselves!

[vertigo7]

My response was to pull the can of OC out of my pocket and tell him "I REALLY wish we had CCW". He just nodded sagely...

I'm waiting to receive my licenses for unarmed / armed security back from the state. I've got a great non-security-related job, but it's nice to have a ready back-up plan if things go south with the current job. Here in FL, if I'm on an unarmed post, I can't carry concealed even with my CCW. Big no-no.

vertigo7

[Wayne D]

I've talked to the security guards at work and I don't want them to have guns!:uhoh:

[David]

I think it is time, in our post 9/11 world, that we reconsider what we want from private security.

If we want unarmed "greeters" and "wavers" in fancy unforms, so be it -- but don't hold yourself out as having "security" to the public.

On the other hand, if we want professionals who are on-duty to help prevent crime and possible acts of terrorism, let's make sure we do what is required to attract the best men and women possible into the career.

As stated before, that means proper screening -- proper training
-- proper equipment -- and proper pay!

Just my opinion...:D

[EJ]

It's a heck ofa risk-- Pinnin' on a badge and wearing a uniform without the (expected) accompanying firearm--:uhoh:

[TexasVet]

Well, obviously armed doesn't work either. There was an armed COP (not just a 'security guard') at Columbine and he rabbited because he was "outgunned" and left two nuts with guns loose in a school full of kids. :cuss:

[Mike Irwin]

The credit union where I used to work had "security guards" who weren't armed. Mostly they were older ex-Marines, but still no challenge to someone with a gun.

What good they did when they were "guarding" the ATM servicing crew is completely beyond me.

[Amegatek]

I don't work contract security anymore. I work for the University and I am a state employee. The way our security force is now, about 50% are highly competent and the other 50% are questionable. If we were armed, I feel that those people wouldn't have gotten hired. Could change (at least getting handcuffs) b/c the new University prez is really pro security. Until then, maintain Condition Yellow (at least), and hope PD responds quickly if something goes down.

[WonderNine]

Deleted by request of author.

[bigdog21]

The days of observe and report are over atleast in florida the courts have found that security is responsible for protection of people and property.. If a security officer saw a person getting hurt and was properly equipped to deal with the situation and did nothing he/she could be charged with criminal negligence. If the contract says you are to protect people thats what you do. Unarmed officers in florida can carry any weapon except a firearm. Also the state teaches you that you have the power of citizens arrest which is breach of peace or felony. most security officers Ive met are very professional but you get the bad apples sometimes. Bye the way i am a florida licensed security officer been one for 2 yrs.

[smince]

Slightly off-topic, but:

I went to the local courthouse on business. The two deputies manning the metal detector were UNARMED! I personally know they are qualified, but that is the rule when working the courthouse. Go figure:confused:

There was a shooting in a nearby county on the courthouse lawn last week. Luckily he was stopped before he got inside, but unarmed deputies may not have been much help.

[Tom Servo]

It's a heck ofa risk-- Pinnin' on a badge and wearing a uniform without the (expected) accompanying firearm
Yeah, might as well wear a bullseye on their chest.

Best security setup I ever had was a retailer I worked after college where employees were allowed to CCW. Several of us were armed, but most folks didn't know.

Until we had a confrontation. Then word got around the neighborhood, and two things happened: a) "locals" stopped hanging around the parking lot, and b) customers starting saying things like "I feel safer now."

Being the guy with the gun just means you get shot first if something goes wrong. In our situation, folks knew there were armed folks present, they just didn't know who. No way would I have put a uniform on, armed or not, that announced me as "security" though.

[Manedwolf]

I'd thought most large stores only had the guy in the polyester uniform trying to look important at the door as something to see, and the actual security (as in catching shoplifters) was done by one or more plainclothes "store detectives" or "loss prevention officers", as I've heard them variously called?

[The_Antibubba]

The attitude of most businesses is "Just give 'em the money!!" Let's say I'm a bank robber, and I case the bank. The security guard on duty is armed. What do think is the first thing I'm going to do when I walk in the door? If I'm hiding a gun I might try to disarm him, but if I'm walking in with long guns, HE IS DEAD. If I own that bank, the last thing I want is people shooting in my bank. Give them the money, along with a dye pack or a transmitter, and let the police do their job.

At the mall, most of the security work is nuisance control and shoplifting. Again, unless you have a REAL LEO on hand, you don't want your Rent-a-cop firing at someone, because it'll be the mall's liability.

[coylh]

Inventory control = Safety

Camera Surveillance = Safety

Chip implantation = Safety

Disarmament = Safety

Don't you guys realize this is for your own Safety? How can you be so Anti-Safety?

[gopguy]

They are there to stop crime....When they see it they will yell "STOP!"......and when nothing happens they will yell "STOP!" again. :rolleyes:

Many malls in Ohio are posted no ccw. So I only shop where I can carry and protect myself.

Logically what is needed for mall security in this post 9/11 world is a uniformed presence (for show) and then a plain clothes armed unit to respond to the threat. With the plain clothes having real training and not looking like security. No value in guys all dressed in black suits with huge radios etc... The uniformed guys just stand out and if someone wants to disarm them and do something it is not too hard to imagine the guys in uniform will be the first casualties...

Some time back Fox News did a story on a Sarin gas plant with designer perfume bottles in storage. They showed the bottles and it sent a chill down my spine...They were clearly meant to be sent to Malls in the west where they would wreak havoc and death...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,147046,00.html

Spertzel said what scared him the most in Iraq was the discovery of secret labs to make deadly weapons like the nerve agent, sarin, and the biological poison, ricin, in spray form.

"If that were released in a closed [area], such as Madison Square Garden or, even some, some of your smaller closed malls, shopping malls, it would have a devastating effect … killing hundreds or thousands," Spertzel said.

But Spertzel believes Saddam was cooking up an even more sinister plan — putting the poisons on department store shelves across the United States and Europe. He said that plan was "actively pursued" as late as March 2003. And that plan was at least, in part, funded by Saddam's corrupt Oil-for-Food activities.

"Some of the photographs that were obtained from this same laboratory had multiple different shapes of glass spray bottles, perfume spray bottles — presumably to mimic different brand names," Spertzel said. "Can you imagine somebody going into Macy's department store and spray a little bit of a perfume to see whether they like the scent, only instead of perfume they're getting a face full of sarin?

"That would kill within, within a few minutes. If this were to appear at a couple different locations, imagine the economic impact in the U.S. — people would be afraid to buy anything."

It is clear terrorists have thought about hitting at our soft underbellies...they would have killed thousands had this worked. Someday a mall attack probably will happen....

[Eleven Mike]

I am a Security Officer for a University. We do carry OC Spray but that is it. We don't even have handcuffs! Yeah, but since colleges don't allow weapons on-campus, there's nothing to worry about!

Hey, forget all that stuff about Iraq. We all know that the Hussein regime was just politely minding its own business.

:neener:

[Kenneth Lew]

Some perspective of the unarmed security debate.

1. There is a cost difference for a company to hire armed versus unarmed security ($6 per hour versus $15 per hour)
2. The potential liability faced by the hiring company/individual when an armed security officer discharges their weapon during an incident.
3. Has more than adequate training been administered to armed security personnel.
4. Depending upon that state, does the individual may not be legally allowed to possess a firearm by federal laws (non-permanant resident for example).
5. Its a whole lot easier to find replacements when unarmed.
6. The quality of the personnel may detract a company from hiring armed security.

Personally, I'm not against unarmed security depending upon the situation in which they are employed. For one thing, due to the natured of the beast, does a private security company can afford or willing train their employees in the use of deadly force. From my experiences on what I've seen security schools pass for level 3 certification (armed security) at different ranges, I will run out of a particular business if I ever see one of those iodiots at a post.

Practically anyone can get an unarmed license.

[carebear]

For those of you talking about armed, better trained, better paid, state-certified private security, you've just described cops. When you're talking about more cops protecting every mass-gathering place you're describing, in effect, a police state. (and "assisting with Homeland security and anti-terrorism? Isn't that horse beat down to the molecules already?)

We don't need more uniformed (pseudo-) police standing around to "protect us". Give the citizen back the ball and let us run with it. We do just fine protecting ourselves.

I feel safe all day never seeing a policeman. I'm glad they're around, they have an assigned task in our society. I don't, however, wet my pants when there isn't a badge in eyeshot.

[Kenneth Lew]

We don't need more uniformed (pseudo-) police standing around to "protect us". Give the citizen back the ball and let us run with it. We do just fine protecting ourselves.

That is a good however, in my part of the woods where I've seen 3 generations of people sucking on the govenment's teet, education that dues nothing to promoted free thinking, the current legal system, etc, I would find it hard to people to rely on themselves for a long time.

[carebear]

There are three (and only three) responses to any problem or situation.

1) Put up with it

2) Change it

3) Leave it

If there are already police where you're at and things are that bad, then more, private or not, probably won't help much.

So, in your situation, if (1) ever becomes not tenable and (2) is (apparently) impossible or unlikely, it leaves only (3).

This last bit doesn't apply to you at all Ken because you are not complaining, just stating facts.

For those who want to borrow it, I usually finish my "3 and only 3" comment with (when it fits contextually) "none of these include the right to whine about it, so shut up."