Springfield M1A Accuracy


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natedog
May 13, 2004, 11:59 PM
Assuming good conditions, from a rest, with good ammo, etc., what is the average level of accuracy that is to be expected from the following rifles?

M1A Scout Rifle
M1A SOCOM
M1A Standard
M1A "Loaded Standard"
M1A National Match
M1A Super Match
M21 Tactical Rifle
M25 Tactical Rifle

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Steve Smith
May 14, 2004, 12:09 AM
Accuracy of the rifle has absolutely nothing to do with the aiming device!

natedog
May 14, 2004, 12:12 AM
.

Steve Smith
May 14, 2004, 01:30 AM
So do you want to know how well each gun shoots, or how well each of us can shoot each gun? I thought you wanted quantitative answers.

natedog
May 14, 2004, 01:38 AM
.

Steve Smith
May 14, 2004, 01:41 AM
Natedog, these aren't semantics! What the rifle can do, vice what you or I can do with it, are two totally different things!

Master Blaster
May 14, 2004, 11:37 AM
I think NateDogs Question was pretty clear.

If you have one of the Above rifles what is your opinion of the level of accuracy that it shoots to for you on a good day.

1" at 100 yards, 2" , 1/4" , for a 5 shot group.

In other words waht is your oprinion as an owner as to how well it shoots???

I am interested as well, since I am considering one also, and not sure which one.

Thanks

30Cal
May 14, 2004, 12:29 PM
I have a supermatch. It shot 1.5-2.0" at 100yds out of the box. I did repairs to the bedding and it's good for about an inch now if it's fed the good stuff.

A National Match should be about the same. You're not going to be able to tell the difference between the various match barrels unless you are a truly exceptional marksman. It doesn't have the rear lug, which only serves to increase the life of the glass bedding.

I owned a standard a while back. That one was good for about 2.5" w/ surplus ammo. The loaded should be good for just a little better than that (match barrel is going to be limited by stock fit and other fit & looseness issues).

I don't shoot with optics, so this is all done w/ iron sights.

El Tejon
May 14, 2004, 12:42 PM
All can be expected to hit a torso at 300 yards.

Now whether I am up to that is an entirely different thing.:D

Better a first-rate man with a second-rate rifle, than vice versa.

nate, it's all about the training, THEN it's about the bling bling.:cool:

Jon Coppenbarger
May 14, 2004, 03:00 PM
I believe one reason for Steve's answers is that you give us nothing really to go on?

Now here is a few things to consider.
If you use very good ammo that is the best and I mean tuned to each of the rifles you listed the bottom 4 rifles the holes should all touch at 100 yards from a vice if the ammo and rifle are right.

You should ask springfield what they expect from them.
There has been a few company's and springfield is not one of them to their credit that will garentee a certain acuracy.

There is even one company that folks talk about here alot that do not garentee a rifle if you shoot reloads out of it. How are you going to compete and win with factory ammo, the answer is you aren't.

If you are looking for a rifle with acuracy the match one's are fair rifles but it is a rifle that will take you years to master if you do and I mean a lot of money to get you close to the rifles potential.
Like in ammo , barrels and time and parts.

after quite a few years competing with them I felt a 100 yard reduced prone target was a waste as all you did was make the hole get larger and you could never ever count 20 holes in the paper when you had for the most part one large hole.

Just get the standard rifle and shoot it until you wear out the barrel and then sell it to up grade or then ad the match stuff to it.

If I could take 3rd in a highpower match with a sar-1 ak out to 300 yards out of over 25 shooters that should be a good answer to you.
The sar was most likely one of the least acurate rifles in that match and was the only one in the match but it was not the rifle that placed it was the shooter, thats what Steve means.

artherd
May 15, 2004, 05:47 PM
All can be expected to hit a torso at 300 yards.

Now whether I am up to that is an entirely different thing.

Better a first-rate man with a second-rate rifle, than vice versa.

nate, it's all about the training, THEN it's about the bling bling.


Oh PLEASE. I've shot pistols that can hit a silliouette at 300yds. Can you guys answer the question please?

He's asking how accurate your Springfields are. Is it a 1MOA gun, 2MOA, or 4MOA or what? Sure I have trouble holding a rifle any better than 1/2MOA or so<scoped of course>. But let's get real and post some actual accuracy figures to get this guy started.

For instance, I doubt the SCOUT SQUAD M1a is a 1/3MOA shooter.


And I also doubt that you 'rock stars' who aparently can use the force to guide your shots would do very well with a rifle that shoots at best 10MOA.

Good tools help *everyone*.

Dave P
May 15, 2004, 07:18 PM
Nate, I say that every M1A should do 3 MOA with decent ammo, and the best rifles should do <1MOA with great ammo. (5 rnds, bench, bags, irons, 100-200 yrds). I just shot an excellent group yesterday of .75" with a match gun.

Dave

Duke of Lawnchair
May 15, 2004, 07:27 PM
natedog,

The only M1As that I have experience with are the "loaded" stainless steel barrel models.

All of the ones that I've fired are ~4moa rifles with surplus ammunition and ~1.5moa rifles with Federal 168gr Gold Medal Match.

Jim

hube1236
May 16, 2004, 03:53 PM
Aimpoint sighted for 50 yards


10 ft. penny covers 3" low
10yards quarter 1.5" low
25 yards three fingers 0.5" low
50 yards three fingers 0.00
100 yrds dollar 0.5" high

4 MOA dot.

Steve Smith
May 16, 2004, 04:48 PM
What one guy's experiences have been with one particular rifle really has nothing to do with what Springfield expects from their rifles on average. I actually spoke to Springfield about and IIRC, the Scouts, SOCOMS and Standards are all expected to shoot within 4" at 100 yards with their specified ammo. The loaded is expected to shoot withint 2", the NM in 1.5" and the Super and M21/25 inside of an inch, all with their specifided ammo. Now, this is with the rifle being fired from a vice, not a human. Unless I have already quantified a shooter's prowess at accuracy shooting I won't put a lot of stock in what he says about how accurate his rifle is. Many folk will stop after a good string, or will clean up the numebrs a hair. You never know if you're hearing about the "lucky" gun that costs $900 and shoots better than the M25. Simply too many vairables to ask the members of an internet site to rate how accurate a rifle is. I would say you should take Springfield's worst-case expectations and consider them as the standard. That way you will purchase a rifle that is at the worst, as good as you need, and could possibly be much better.

chuckles
May 16, 2004, 07:24 PM
I have 3. A Supermatch ,1" at 100M with GM308 ammo. A NM, 1-2" at 100M again with Fed GM308 ammo and a loaded that I have accurized with a gas cyl that shoots a consistent 2" at 100M with Fed GM308. Those are 5 shot groups if I hold consistenly. I would guess that most M1As are fairly similar. I don't reload and I don't shoot competetively. All ammo I use is either Federal GM 308 Match or any of several mil-surp types. The mil-surp opens up the groups quite a bit. Aussie surplus is best but still not match grade ammo. All this is my personal experience and JMHO and of course YMMV.;)

TODD3465
May 16, 2004, 10:50 PM
I have a N.M. model and with good reloads, but not match bullets, it will shoot 1-1/2 MOA off of a decent rest. And that's not with me holding super tight.
When I bear down and hold steady it can do better.

For an example of shooter error: Today I was firing it at 100yds when I almost had a nice sub MOA group. But alas I pulled one exactly to the left a bit and another exactly to the right and opened the blooming thing up to 2MOA.:banghead:

I've also shot 3 standard M-1A's that grouped about as well. THough they were owned by others and couldn't honestly say how consistant they are.

Sven
May 17, 2004, 02:36 PM
Seems your question was mostly answered above... I put $2.5K+ into a custom built M1A (0.75 - 1 MOA) and assure you that it will take time and money for you to shoot up to the rifle's accuracy.

You have to forgive the competition shooting guys - I think they forgot which forum they were in for a minute. That said, each shot I fire costs $0.60+ in barrel life/ammo - assuming you do not have a wad burning a hole in your pocket, the notes above from Steve and Jon underscore a REAL factor... I'll get about 5K rounds through the barrel before it is off to Krieger again for a new tube ($550). A chrome plated USGI barrel will go 10,000 rounds or more before losing accuracy.

While I like knowing that the 'flyers' were due to me, if I could go back I might buy a standard rack M1A, wear out the barrel practicing (that is, not using a sandbag or rest) with surplus, then upgrade from that point. 3-4MOA rifles should still keep you in the black if you are holding well... I believe the black dot for competition shooting is 6MOA.

Even if the rifle isn't 1MOA, you will be able to tell when you are improving. Whatever you choose, I bet you will love your M1A. I love mine.

Sam Adams
May 17, 2004, 06:54 PM
Has anyone swapped-out their wood for a synthetic stock (like from Fred's)? It would seem that this would contribute a bit toward accuracy, as the variation in stock dimensions at various temps and humidity levels would be eliminated. Also, for $80 plus shipping, it doesn't seem like a bad deal.

30Cal
May 18, 2004, 04:23 PM
That may help prevent changes in zero from one day to the next, but not necessarily help accuracy.

It doesn't hurt, though, that the GI plastic stocks are fairly tight. That will help with accuracy.

The downside is that the forends are kinda flimsy and if you shoot from a sling supported position, you can muscle the barrel downward. It's not a bad idea to beef them up in the forend if that's your intention.

Ty

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