Private Citizens and Body Armor? Good or Bad?


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AZRickD
May 15, 2004, 09:37 AM
A couple of days ago Tim W posted a group buy for ballistic plates at the "Buy, Sell, Trade" forum:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81791
Ceramic Plates - IV $210.00
Famastone Plates - III $290.00

Wild Alaska asked the following question:Just out of curiosity, why would a law abiding civilian want a ballistic plate???

...and...

I find it hard to beleive that a law abiding citizen would need one..I really dont care one way or the other..

Wildhmmm?Alaska
What do you think of private citizens owning body armor, be it with or without ballistic plates?

Rick

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El Tejon
May 15, 2004, 09:52 AM
Since when in the Constitution about determining needs?:confused:

Fundamental constitutional rights are not need based. One does not need go to the house of worship of his choice. One does not need so many choices in books or the press. One does not need to petition the government. One does not need so much freedom, just ask WildI'mgrumpytodayfromabearmaulingleavemealoneAlaska.:D

41mag
May 15, 2004, 09:54 AM
I really don't even see why it would be questionable.Body armor,in & of itself,doesn't hurt anything.It's basically just real heavy clothes.
If I had the means($$$) & the desire I could buy an armor plated car & build my house out of heavy steel plate.What's the difference?Is the potential concern that a criminal might wear body armor & defeat the efforts of the PD to "bring them down"-like in North Hollywood?
Has there been a spate of armored goblins attacking the local "stop & robs"that I missed?
Or did I miss the point altogether?

:D

PATH
May 15, 2004, 10:02 AM
Body armor should be available to all who want it. I would make the use of it in a violent felonious act a heavy duty felony though.

Hkmp5sd
May 15, 2004, 10:02 AM
Many instructors recommend having body armor in your home defense equipment alongside your gun, flashlight and cellphone. Most folks would find it uncomfortable to wear all day in public, but as with owning a gun, it is an individual choice. It's not really a "law abiding" question, but how far you want to take self protection.

armoredman
May 15, 2004, 10:03 AM
I have worn some sort of body armor for the last 10+ years, and it is hot, uncomfortable, bulky, and an absolute life saver. Ordinary citizens will not wear most vests, simply because they are a pain. A good level IIIA vest is nice to have, especially in a roll out kit, external carrier with attached goodies. :cool:

GSB
May 15, 2004, 10:09 AM
It certainly seems like it might be a handy thing to have around when things go bump in the night. It can be misused, but I don't see the magic line between "can be misused" and "must be prohibited" in this case. I mean, ultimately we're talking about a piece of personal protection equipment with no capacity in and of itself to harm anything. Might as well say my car can't have tires rated for over 100 mph because high performance tires allow me to drive at speeds that make vehiclular chases unsafe for law-enforcement.

Chris Rhines
May 15, 2004, 10:12 AM
Body armor is a useful tool for special occasions, although I can't see wearing it on a daily basis (not while punching computer keys and wiring speakers all day.)

Needless to say, it should be available to anyone who has the purchase price.

- Chris

Soap
May 15, 2004, 10:17 AM
Nothing is more irritating than telling me what I need. But then again, the question I want to ask is why the hell would someone want a lowrider truck? :p

Really, it has already been said. Its not about need. Regardless of need, I'd rather have the good guys with the body armor, MGs, etc. than the BGs.

MeekandMild
May 15, 2004, 10:21 AM
Some thoughts

First of all, there are several civilian jobs where the risk of attack is high. I immediately think of the little man I used to do business with in the city who owned a beverage store. He was short, fat and middle aged and too slow to dodge any danger at all. Then I think of the cab driver I met in Chicago. He said he worked the clubs of the south side every weekend and saw a lot of interesting things. He offered to sell me a tour, which I declined.

Second, there is the little fact people should mind their own business and not be so judgmental of what citizens do with their free enterprise.

Third, concerning WA's crank yanking, I wonder how many people believe the concept that in a free society the citizens must take responsibility for the public safety and public order. Hmmm I think I will open another thread on this.

Zach S
May 15, 2004, 11:51 AM
I dont care if a citizen has body armor or not. I dont have a need for it, but if someone else does, or they simply want it, I dont see the problem.

I'm sure there's a lot of people that think I dont need a beat up Fairmont capable of doing 140mph, but I've got one outside.

Rebar
May 15, 2004, 12:49 PM
I've been at the range and witnessed a couple accidents, I'm sure most of you all have also (luckly no one was hurt). Several times I thought to get a vest, even if it was just to wear at the range. It'd also be comforting to have in case another LA riot type situation developed.

BeLikeTrey
May 15, 2004, 01:35 PM
Great give the libs more ideas on stuff to ban! :neener:

Hkmp5sd
May 15, 2004, 01:56 PM
Great give the libs more ideas on stuff to ban!
Nah, the libs like fast cars too. They just want to ban stuff they don't like.

Justin
May 15, 2004, 03:24 PM
In a free society one person's misguided perception of what constitutes "need" shouldn't even enter into the discussion of what a citizen can and cannot own.

7.62FullMetalJacket
May 15, 2004, 03:50 PM
It's deja vu all over again. Guns, SUVs, cell phones, etc.

Why don't the busybodies just leave us alone?

buy guns
May 15, 2004, 04:21 PM
you could also say

Just out of curiosity, why would a law abiding civilian want a firearm???

...and...

I find it hard to beleive that a law abiding citizen would need one..I really dont care one way or the other..

Wildhmmm?Alaska

Kim
May 15, 2004, 04:36 PM
I suggest when someone starts taking about banning body armour ask them (because most will be left leaning) if they think the protestors that we see at the WTO meetings should not be allowed to own the gas masks they use to keep the tear gas and pepper spray out of their eyes!:evil:

AZRickD
May 15, 2004, 04:42 PM
Body armor is like condoms fer gunnies. :neener:

Rick

inventory0297
May 15, 2004, 04:44 PM
I say yes, anything police have we should be allowed to have too, including the evil MG's, assault rifles and body armor. We pretty flog to death around here that law abiding gun owners are not the issue when it comes to crime, therefore there is no reason I can see to treat us like criminals or as some "lower" class because we aren't all agents of the state.......

LAR-15
May 15, 2004, 05:09 PM
Body Armor is real popular in Great Britian these days. :rolleyes:

Wonder why? They banned handguns.

artherd
May 15, 2004, 05:19 PM
Wild Alaska- I am ashamed of your behavior.

I know several law-abiding citizens who NEED (as in, have been SHOT AT, and lived) rifle-level armored vehicles.

SapperLeader
May 15, 2004, 05:22 PM
Ive worn body armor before for work, and thier hot and uncomfortable. They are also extremely comforting. I would love to own a set for wearing to the range or for any unusual circumstances that turn up. If someone wants to own a set of armor, thats their business.

madcowburger
May 15, 2004, 05:22 PM
Wild Alaska wrote:

"Just out of curiosity, why would a law-abiding citizen want a ballistic plate???"

Um, to stop bullets, knives, steering wheel columns, etc, from puncturing one's torso?

Wild Alaska wrote;

"I find it hard to believe that a law abiding citizen would need one ... ."

Gee, are you saying law abiding citizens never get shot, or shot at, or stabbed, or get into car crashes? I know if I worked as a clerk in a convenience store *I'd* sure want to wear some concealable body armor, especially since I probably couldn't carry a gun on the job. Ditto if I were an an air traveler. Just because you can't have any weapons doesn't mean you should be required to be a defenseless bullet sponge.

Gosh, why would a law abiding citizen ever need safety glasses or goggles? Or seat belts? Or a hard hat or a crash helmet? Or steel-toed work boots, or heavy work gloves?

I find it hard to believe anyone would object to private citizens taking purely passive measures to protect life and limb.

Gosh, why would any law abiding citizen need a high fence around his house, or a gate across his driveway?

Why would a law abiding citizen ever need deadbolt locks on his solid-core or metal doors? Or need to brace them against the floor with a "charlie bar"?

Why would he need heavy-duty steel shutters on his windows? Or even heavy "blackout" drapes? All that just makes the job of the police so much harder when they want to peep in or bust in in the dead of night.

Law-abiding citizens should have no objections to a SWAT team ramming in their doors or doing "break-and-rakes" to their windows and tossing in "flashbangs" and/or tear gas grenades at zero-dark-thirty. They should all live in glass houses with no locks on the doors or windows, and never wear anything that could possibly conceal (or *be*) a weapon. :rolleyes:

MCB

Wildalaska
May 15, 2004, 06:01 PM
Whoa hold a minute here guys...a simple question deserves this level of invective...???

Ya'all act like I am advocating the ban of all firearms by simply questioning WHY (emphasis added) a private citizen needs one..

Ia int stupid fellas, I know darn well there are occupations where Body Armor is a necessity...

But your average homeowner...come on tell me WHY Johnny Suburbia NEEDS a threat plate..not that he cant or shouldnt, but WHY... (and yes I know the "Becasue he wants to" argument, I have a US Army flack vest gathering dust myself)..

Guess Im more interested in seeing rational discussion of the subject which may demonstrate peoples general outlook on life.

And Artherd and anyone else..you "ashamed" (my god I questioned conventional wisdom) of my behavior..well add me to your ignore list...Oh and terribly sorry for raising the issue in a For Sale thread (which kept it on top I may add)..just that the subject is not one that I ever really considered before...or much bothered with


WildmygodsuchangerAlaska

buy guns
May 15, 2004, 06:11 PM
i think the question should be why shouldnt a homeowner need it. i imagine that for just about everyone here, their guns' main purpose is to protect themselves, especially while home. if you have a weapon and are willing to confront someone who breaks into your house than having a vest on would just be common sense. you dont know if that person is armed or not so you might as well be prepared for it.

Zach S
May 15, 2004, 06:14 PM
Ia int stupid
I'm not trying to start a fire here, but does anyone else find this funny?

Treylis
May 15, 2004, 06:22 PM
I've never seen a compelling, logical argument put forth as to why private citizens should not own body armor, and I can see that it has definite utility. Good thing.

Justin
May 15, 2004, 06:24 PM
The rational answer has already been given. In a free nation citizens don't need to justify the ownership of private property, be it a deck of Pokemon cards or a Kevlar vest.

Any discussion beyond that belongs in the strategies and tactics forum.

Zach- I suspect WA was being ironic.

Wildalaska
May 15, 2004, 06:44 PM
The rational answer has already been given. In a free nation citizens don't need to justify the ownership of private property, be it a deck of Pokemon cards or a Kevlar vest.

Sorry Justin, I agree that no one needs to justify it on a constituional basis...then let me rephrase it...

What is your view of life and socieity that would make you want to own body armor suffienct to stop a rifle round...
??

And Im not talking about "if comes"...and btw I see a philosophical difference between BOBs and body armour...

Does that take it out of strategy and tactics..?

WildandiwasbeingironicAlaska

Chuck Dye
May 15, 2004, 06:51 PM
OK, now I want a Kevlar and polyethylene plate house coat! As frumpy as a fat, fifty-something woman in curlers, complete with factory installed frayed cuffs and hemline (camouflage :D.) Better yet, a Kevlar and plate yukata, male pattern with the partially sewn sleeve ends (hard to call’em cuffs on a yukata) and appropriate storage slots for BUGs and spare magazines.

Don't Tread
May 15, 2004, 07:00 PM
"What is your view of life and socieity that would make you want to own body armor suffienct to stop a rifle round...??"

Good Question, here's an answer, not everyone who means to harm you is going to use a pistol, some will use hunting rifles, either because that's all they have or because they know that most body armor won't stop a rifle round.

Is that a good answer???

telomerase
May 15, 2004, 07:20 PM
If Dallas convenience-store clerks all had body armor.

"What is your view of life and socieity that would make you want to own body armor suffienct to stop a rifle round...??"

Why don't you ask the 200 million people killed by their own governments in the 20th century? Oh, that's right, you can't. (I admit that lots of them were killed by mere pistols and subguns, and could have made do with Level III).

come on tell me WHY Johnny Suburbia NEEDS a threat plate..

Well, if the intruder gets by my wolves, then I'd be foolish not to put on armor before confronting them, wouldn't I?

We can't all have sheltered lives like you Alaskan softies.

dustind
May 15, 2004, 07:28 PM
I think the way you worded it, and the use of "law abiding" put people on edge.

I will probably buy some someday in case some crazy guy tries to break into my house, for use on some two or four wheel off road or race vehicles, wild animals, any time I think I may be hit by any lethal or non lethal projectile sent form a human or nature, and for any unknown situation where I would like to have it.

I can think of a lot of jobs where I would want it if I lived in a bad city, from gas station employee, taxi driver, to pizza delivery person, etc.

artherd
May 15, 2004, 07:36 PM
What is your view of life and socieity that would make you want to own body armor suffienct to stop a rifle round...
??

Because somebody, sometime, may shoot a rifle at me, either accidentally, or with purpose?

Because another race riot could happen at any time, and who knows where I'll be at the time?

Because police now carry M-16s as general issue, and while most LE are good and moral people, the ONLY murder committed with a registered machine gun in recent history was commited by an off-duty LEO.

41mag
May 15, 2004, 07:59 PM
dustind makes a point that mebee Wildalaska might help with an answer.
re.wild animals.I wonder what protection,if any,current body armor would provide against bear chewings?
I wonder if any guides/hunters in the frozen north have tried wearing one?

41isn'ttheinternetawondefultoymag:D:rolleyes:

Marshall
May 15, 2004, 07:59 PM
For home break-in's, I see the advantage going to the BG if body armor and plates are readily available in Wal Mart. The more intelligent BG's already assume were armed, give them the ability to have less risk and we increase their confidence.

I see this scenario: I have a break in, I awake suddenly and stumble to get my body armor, try my best to put it on quickly while also getting my gun and flashlight and hoping he isn't storming my bedroom with his body armor already on! Wait, I have no underwear on, I can't be shot like this! Oh yea, I forgot, my wife or girlfriend need some too and so do my kids so they don't get shot dead. I yell at my dog, body armor time boy, body armor, I don't want Rover dead.

I guess I could sleep in it but that might cut down on my sexual prowess? :neener:

FedDC
May 15, 2004, 09:09 PM
Whatever works for you, works for you... I have several vests that I have purchased or been issued and all of them are a pain to wear. They sit in the closet collecting dust... And BTW, they expire every 5 years so they must be replaced. As to the plates and whatnot, buy all you want...but for the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone outside DOD or certain LE groups would want a level 4 plate. Those things are HEAVY and a real pain to wear around. Plus, it takes a few minutes to get suited up in all that stuff... those few minutes could be better spent moving to a point of dimination or securing your family.

Justin
May 15, 2004, 09:27 PM
What is your view of life and socieity that would make you want to own body armor suffienct to stop a rifle round... There are really only two reasons why I would want body armor:

1) To tweak the nose of those who think it should be illegal.

2) Because it's cool.

:p

[/doesn't own any, can't speak for everyone.]

Highland Ranger
May 15, 2004, 09:31 PM
The difference in outlook is perhaps the difference between a mountain top in Alaska and a housing project in Red Hook Brooklyn (where a law abiding citizen might use one to wrap their two year old in bed)

Dude you need to leave the tundra and visit a few cities.

Wildalaska
May 15, 2004, 11:15 PM
2) Because it's cool.

And that says it all..

Me I used to wear my flak vest with my LBE amd my cammie pajamas :D :D



Dude you need to leave the tundra and visit a few cities.

Dude I live in a city...and dont need no Level II vest...

And I lived in NYC when it was real nasty...didnt need a Level II there either...

WildoffthetundraAlaska

AZRickD
May 16, 2004, 12:12 AM
Half-Baked-Alaska.

I've created this thread for you to get your answer as to why some would want body armor. Are there any answers you need to satisfy this issue for you? Or was this just a little trolling on your part?

You said you were just curious, and now you are making jokes about "cammie pajamies."

Rick

buy guns
May 16, 2004, 12:19 AM
dustind makes a point that mebee Wildalaska might help with an answer.

there is this one show that had a guy on who invented bear armor after being attacked. the guy put the armor on and the host of the show broke a baseball bat across this guys chest. then they hit him a couple times with a battering ram. they couldnt test on a real bear so they made these big mechanical claws and tried to crush the guy with them but his armor held strong. then they put a punching bag in the claws and ripped it to shreds. the armor was impressive but the guy could barely move with it on.

Wildalaska
May 16, 2004, 12:30 AM
Buy guns, to the best of my knowledge no civilian wears body armor for bears in Alaska..

The Troopers do (as do Fish and Game) but they are required to.

WilddonthtinkthatbodyarmourwouldstopabearanywayAlaska

madcowburger
May 16, 2004, 12:43 AM
Armor against animal attacks? Hm, I stand to be corrected here, but my understanding has been that big bears generally go for the head and neck first. Ditto for the big cats. Wolves and mean dogs like to go low, especially for the crotch. A kevlar vest, or even one with rifle-proof steel or ceramic inserts, wouldn't necessarily help much. It seems like what you'd want would be a helmet of some kind and a kevlar or chain mail codpiece.:uhoh:

MCB

dustind
May 16, 2004, 12:44 AM
I wonder what animals shark chain mail could stop. I would guess anything that does not maul you would have a hard time getting you.

Marshall
May 16, 2004, 01:09 AM
Geeze guy's, give ol' Wild a break. All he's saying is that he really doesn't see a need for the average American to wear body armor. Frankly, I don't either. Does it mean you should be banned from buying it? No. Wild said that too and I agree.

I mean damn, if you live in an area that you fear your life so much as to have to wear body armor, you might be better suited spending your time thinking on how to get out of there and move to a safer area to live. Avoiding a gun fight is in fact a better way to stay alive than hanging in an area wearing body armor where gun fights are a way of life.

Someone spoke of steering wheels? Don't most cars made for the decade or longer have Air Bags, drivers side at least? Oh yea, how many of us are really going to do that anyway? LOL :rolleyes:

I already posted about home a defense senario. I think that's wishful thinking too for the most part.

When it get's down to the nut-cuttin, BG's will wear it for a specific reason and purpose in mind. To be combative with them we would have to wear it all the time to be ready.

I spend my money on alarms, dogs, proper lighting and a 12 guage and feel very comfortable.

artherd
May 16, 2004, 01:17 AM
I mean damn, if you live in an area that you fear your life so much as to have to wear body armor, you might be better suited spending your time thinking on how to get out of there and move to a safer area to live. Avoiding a gun fight is in fact a better way to stay alive than hanging in an area wearing body armor where gun fights are a way of life.


I've been wanting to ask people who suggest moving as a safety measure.

Where would you have me go? Where would you have me move to that I am guarenteed 100% to NEVER have a rifle shot at me (or house invaded, or daughter raped, etc.), by anybody?

Where's this mythical 'crime-free zone' where nothing bad happens?

Yes, ok, you can stack the odds in your favor to a degree with a well-planned real-estate transaction.

But where is the place where you can guarentee me I will NEVER need that armour?

7.62FullMetalJacket
May 16, 2004, 01:34 AM
"Never" is tough.

We have experienced 5 murders in 15 years, three on one day from an off-interstate robbery. None were rifles. 2 accidental gunshot deaths from 2 kids.

I would be more afraid of lightning here than rifle shots.

Utah: Armed and People Know It :D

Marshall
May 16, 2004, 01:35 AM
No one can guarentee what you're asking. But life is all about odds and if you live a very bad area, there are better places out there.

Additionally, if you ever cross a street do wear yellow or blaze orange to be seen better? Do you drive a Volvo for safety? Oh yea, and what are you going to wear to protect you from shoulder launched rockets? I mean sometime you have to realize that life is a risk in itself and there are some things that are almost unreasonable to expect. Asking yourself to wear body armor 24/7 is a tad much to ask of yourself, don't you think?

M1911Owner
May 16, 2004, 01:49 AM
Body armor is a useful tool for special occasions, although I can't see wearing it on a daily basis (not while punching computer keys and wiring speakers all day.)I had a roomie in the dorm at school who was attempting to build a stereo amplifier. I almost got hit by a piece of shrapnel the first time he tried to fire it up. :uhoh: :scrutiny:

Wildalaska
May 16, 2004, 02:20 AM
Frankly, I don't either

Yikes Marshall watch out, watch out ol AzRD gonna call ya silly names

WilddontwearaseatbelteitherAlaska

johnc522
May 16, 2004, 02:56 AM
after reading this thread, it seems to me that a lot of people reacted to the way Wildalaska expressed his questions. if one were to substitute "guns" or "assault weapons" for body armor in Wild's original question, it would be exactly a formulation often used by the gun banners. this, in turn, really yanked the chains of a lot of the commenters. Myself, I doubt if I would go out and buy armor, except if it looked as though it were about to be banned. I might then feel obliged to get it just to spite the banners.

seeker_two
May 16, 2004, 09:05 AM
The question is: Why is it a BAD thing?...:scrutiny:

artherd
May 16, 2004, 06:58 PM
Yikes Marshall watch out, watch out ol AzRD gonna call ya silly names

Is that supposed to be me?

I'm done with this thread.

thefitzvh
May 16, 2004, 07:06 PM
Guys, relax... I don't think wild was trying to be "Like the antis"

Wildeveryonespickinonyourightnow,sorryalaska,

I submit that, there may NOT be utility for body armor that can stop a rifle round for private citizens. However, there's the element of "What if" that I worry about.

For example, we see a lot of incidents of crime using stolen guns, correct?

I own body armor because I've seen people try to bring all kinds of nasties into my bar, and we've had "thuglings" pull their cheap <insertbrandhere> 9mm's out to threaten other "thuglings"

My concern, and the reason that I erred on the side of caution when choosing body armor, is that one of the thuglings who wishes to do harm may have stolen a gun, and that gun might be something a little more powerful than a 9mm.

Scenario: thugling steals a gun from a gunowner's house. Said gun is, I dunno, for the sake of argument let's say it's a .223 target pistol. I've seen em, they're cool, but unmanagable for anything beyond their intended purpose.

Thugling doesn't know that. So now he has a pistol that will shoot a .223

Or thugling might have gotten ahold of an M1A. Point is, you never know what's gonna happen, so having the added rifle protection could be a good idea.

Also, I, as well as others on this forum apparently, am a member of the "nonya-damn-business-what-I-own" crowd. If a civilian wants to buy the ULTIMATE IN BODY ARMOR (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=37887&item=2245125771&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) , he should be allowed to. Just as he should be allowed to buy select fire weapons, .50 caliber sniper rifles, etc.

AZRickD
May 16, 2004, 08:21 PM
Actually, right here on local news, thugling gets ahold of a sawed-off, rifle (Rem 7400, .30-30, shotgun, etc.). Or how 'bout a bigggg_ass knife?

I have one of Ayoob's books (Stressfire, as I recall) which suggest it wise for the homeowner in barracade mode utilize the following, gun, flashlight, hearing protection, and body armor.

I don't have time to find a direct quote, but here is one...Mas Ayoob, a well known and respected authority and trainer in both civilian and police circles. Mas is very much in favor of body armor for law abiding citizens.If you have a problem with this source, you can contact Ayoob and ask him yourself.

Marshall states:Asking yourself to wear body armor 24/7 is a tad much to ask of yourself, don't you think?Who here has advocated that? Your statement is a strawman and off-topic. The issue is "ownership."

Rick

Marshall
May 16, 2004, 08:52 PM
Rick,

If that's what this topic is all about, why didn't you copy and paste the part of my post that says "I agree, body armor should not be banned"?

You focused on my other points because those were the ones that hit home with you. As for Ayoob, I agree, I know that the last 23 times I had reasons to barricade, I wish I would have had body armor. I know that Ayoob is like a God around here and not doing what he says is a sin against all that is good, I just don't see the need for having to build barricades. Maybe I am not paranoid enough? I also need to get a full faced Titanium/Kevlar laced helmet too, don't I? If I am barricaded and trying to shoot, my head will be what gets shot off.

;)

w4rma
May 16, 2004, 09:16 PM
For all I care, if someone wants to, they can walk all around town in a full suit of plated kevlar full body armor. Heck, wear a helment and a gas-mask, too, if you want.

As long as the environment in America is where folks don't feel the *need* to do that, then if a small number do, then have fun.

artherd
May 16, 2004, 09:30 PM
Yikes Marshall watch out, watch out ol AzRD gonna call ya silly names

Is that supposed to be me?

I'm done with this thread.

thefitzvh
May 16, 2004, 11:14 PM
I can't believe that a thread on BODY ARMOR is turning into such a flame fest...

This, gentlemen, is what's tearing this board up. Whatever happened to disagreeing respectfully?

Geez

wasrjoe
May 16, 2004, 11:23 PM
Well, just in case this thread stays open a little while longer I'll throw my opinion in.

I think we should be able to buy, wear, use any type of body armor we need or want. It is a purely defensive tool. Sure, a good defense aids offense, but I believe that with that type of reasoning you should tack on prison time to any criminal who uses any type of cover in a firefight. Fortunately, most criminals are too stupid or strung out to need or use these types of armor, and those who are smart enough would be smart enough to find less-than-legal means of procuring it.

If I had the money to burn I would consider buying ceramic armor. Why? It would be neat, and I enjoy arms and armor and even if the situation I was preparing for had a one-in-a-trillion chance of happening, it's my hobby and I'm not going to harm anyone. :)

Marshall
May 16, 2004, 11:30 PM
If I had the money to burn I would consider buying ceramic armor. Why? It would be neat, and I enjoy arms and armor and even if the situation I was preparing for had a one-in-a-trillion chance of happening, it's my hobby and I'm not going to harm anyone.

Here here! The best reason spoken and I can agree with that! :D


I also like this part of your signature line...""I love Fabrique National""

;)

AZRickD
May 17, 2004, 12:33 AM
This thread exists because Wild-half-baked-Alaska rudely attempted to hijack another thread where a person had a discounted deal on ceramic plates.

Even on-topic his question is unwarranted and pointless. He asks the question. He is offered answers, and that is not good enough for him.
I just don't see the need for having to build barricades.
You don't understand the concept of "barricade" in the sense of a home break-in? Do I have to start with square one with you? Do you have a clue what steps a homeowner might take to "barricade" himself? Have you heard of a "safe room?"

Golly, why would anyone need a "safe room?"

Jeez. And on a gun board no less. No wonder our rights are at risk. Pathetic.

Rick

thefitzvh
May 17, 2004, 12:42 AM
Since this thread is about to get closed anyways...

He asked a question. You sir, can let it drop. He's entitled to his opinion just as much as you are entitled to your damned ceramic plates.


I've created this thread for you
... to cause a fight. I don't agree with him either, but I've got better things to do than sit here and have an internet pissing contest... Like writing my congresscritters and other such things.


Geez, what this board has become

Valkman
May 17, 2004, 12:43 AM
I can't believe someone got so pissed off they started a thread solely for the bashing of another member. That's pathetic. If you've done business with WA you'd know he's a good guy that gives members here many great deals.

Marshall
May 17, 2004, 01:31 AM
Rick, you need to take a pill son.

I won't unload a tongue lashing on you and put you in your place with no way out, as you deserve. And, make no mistake son, I can see exactly why you feel the need to wear body armor! I offer you friendly advise instead, concentrate on your attitude, you'll be surprised how good life can be.

I am done with you now, for your own good and as well as my own.

Taking the high road, good night.

Marshall

AZRickD
May 17, 2004, 10:19 AM
to cause a fight.No. I started this thread to stop Wild Alaska from hijacking the other body armor thread. It was Wild Alaska who posted on that person's Buy/Sell/Trade thread the question, "Why would any law abiding citizen..."

He posted it there to start a fight. I posted here to move the fight away from another trying to conduct business without the likes of Wild Alaska piping in for his own agenda. His post was obviously not appreciated by the thread starter, nor by me. Now he has this nice little thread to have his discussion. As you can see, he's not really interested in the answers.

Anyone who thinks WA posed his off-topic, thread-derailing question out of mere curiosity and not to try to make the guy trying to set up a group buy of body armor look stupid is not up on WildAlaska's tactics.

Rick

TimW
May 17, 2004, 11:03 AM
I don't know WildAlaska, so I can't say whether or not his question in the original thread was an attempt to start something or merely an innocent question. Since I don't know him, the benefit of doubt is in his favour.

However, as another poster mentioned, substitute "guns" for "rifle plates" and the question is just a variation of anti-gun arguments as to why we need X firearm. Thus, my smart-assed answer to him.

Now, if a real answer is needed:

There are "average" citizens who are doing things down along the border (whether with CHD or Ranch Rescue or private groups that get no media attention). Bad guys run dope across the border. Bad guys with guns. This means rifles. Thus, rifle plates.

Others want it for other reasons. I am not one to question why someone wants body armor...I assume for personal protection of some sort.

That's why I decided to start the group buy. It allows me to offer something which might be useful at a reduced rate, while allowing me to make some money. Everyone wins.

Do I think body armor is needed on a daily basis, or that rifle plates should be de riguer? No. But just as a fire extinguisher isn't needed most of the time in a kitchen, aren't you glad it's there just in case?

Now, another poster saw a marketing opportunity for a ballistic frumpy housecoat. I am sure I can get the company to make one if you purchased enough of them. :D

TheBluesMan
May 17, 2004, 11:22 AM
This has gone on long enough.

Such rudeness as is found in this thread is not the high road.

Closed.

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