More Columbine....


PDA






Jake
May 16, 2004, 03:27 PM
I'm sure the whole shooting has been discussed here many times but this seems like a new take on it to me and I thought it might make for a few interesting comments.


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/05/16/columbine.parents.ap/index.html

If you enjoyed reading about "More Columbine...." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
jfh
May 16, 2004, 03:58 PM
well, it does add a bit more to the public record.

Read Kliebold's parents' comments how you will--but from a pseudo-pscyh perspective, it seems to me that what is even more telling is this comment from the parent of one of the victims:

"I'm horrified," Dawn Anna, whose daughter Lauren Townsend was killed at Columbine, told The Associated Press. "I wanted an apology. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. I didn't hear it."

JohnBT
May 16, 2004, 10:43 PM
I think Dawn is expecting too much from parents who seemingly weren't fazed by the fact their kid had been arrested and liked to wear a trench coat to school even when it wasn't raining.

John

pittspilot
May 17, 2004, 02:13 AM
That CNN story re-hashes at least one total myth about Columbine. That being the "trench coat mafia." That is hopelessly discredited.

I would refer you to Dave Cullen for a thorough history on Columbine (http://blogs.salon.com/0001137/stories/2003/06/13/theColumbineAlmanactableOfContentsAndSummary.html)

Also it is worth noting that the two did not really intend to shoot to kill. They had rigged bombs that were supposed to kill hundreds. But, the bombs did not work.

c_yeager
May 17, 2004, 03:49 AM
I think Dawn is expecting too much from parents who seemingly weren't fazed by the fact their kid had been arrested and liked to wear a trench coat to school even when it wasn't raining.

At what point in a person's life do their parents cease to be responsible for their actions? If you robbed a mini-mart should they be held responsible?

The parents of D and K are no more responsible for what happened at Columbine than the parents of the kids that bullied the two shooters in the first place. Blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the people who commited the crime, end of story.

Gray Peterson
May 17, 2004, 09:14 AM
Might also point out that Eric Harris was 18 at the time of the attacks. They couldn't go after the Harris' as much because of that fact, but the Kleybold's were a different story (Dylan Kleybold was 17).

longeyes
May 17, 2004, 01:49 PM
The parents of D and K are no more responsible for what happened at Columbine than the parents of the kids that bullied the two shooters in the first place. Blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the people who commited the crime, end of story.

Weren't they sawing off the barrels of their shotguns in their bedrooms? Maybe an issue of parental supervision there? Maybe?

Destructo6
May 17, 2004, 03:05 PM
I would have to agree that their parents have some responsibility. After all, they were minors, living in the homes of their parents. And, they were making preparations in their homes.

ctdonath
May 17, 2004, 04:45 PM
I think Dawn is expecting too much from parents who seemingly weren't fazed by the fact their kid had been arrested and liked to wear a trench coat to school even when it wasn't raining.

Arrest is one thing.

Following a fasion trend is something else.

A friend's kid liked wearing a trenchcoat to/in school (even if not raining). 'twas just his thing. Harmless kid, got good grades. Principal got an earful when he called in kid's folks about the coat: "the kid behaves, he gets good grades, us parents are very busy, other kids are in much bigger trouble ... so why the #$!! are you wasting our time about him wearing a coat?!?"

JohnBT
May 17, 2004, 05:17 PM
A fashion trend?

Looking like an idiot is a fashion trend? What's the world come to?


Regarding: "I would refer you to Dave Cullen for a thorough history on Columbine"

You're referring me to a former writer at SALON? Why? I've already seen the pictures of the trench coats. Around here the only people who wear coats out of season are homeless and likely mentally ill. Of course, one of them explained to me years ago that he had to wear his only 2 coats all summer because he was homeless and he set them down someone would steal them. He had more sense than the Columbine bombers/shooters.


Re: "At what point in a person's life do their parents cease to be responsible for their actions? If you robbed a mini-mart should they be held responsible?"

I never said they were responsible, but it wouldn't hurt them to say that they were sorry for the loss of their loved ones. From the little bit I've read they come across as cold fish. They need to show a little sympathy.

John

pittspilot
May 17, 2004, 05:55 PM
"Regarding: "I would refer you to Dave Cullen for a thorough history on Columbine"

You're referring me to a former writer at SALON? Why? I've already seen the pictures of the trench coats. Around here the only people who wear coats out of season are homeless and likely mentally ill. Of course, one of them explained to me years ago that he had to wear his only 2 coats all summer because he was homeless and he set them down someone would steal them. He had more sense than the Columbine bombers/shooters."

I referred you to the source because it is one of the most authoritative out there. In fact, there is little propaganda on the site, and much information for those that want to know a little more about Columbine.

Such as the fact that the "trench coat mafia" thing was a journalistic fantasy, that Klebold and Harris were never part of that group and that they only wore them on that day to hide the two shotguns they had on them.

You see, a closer examination of the evidence suggests that we got very lucky in Columbine. Klebold and Harris were planning a much higher score. One of the mysteries about the event was why so few people died?

In any event please try to examine something before shooting it down. I am not exactly a flaming lib, but on occassion, I find that some do good work. This is an example.

ctdonath
May 17, 2004, 11:37 PM
Looking like an idiot is a fashion trend?

Have you looked at most fashion trends? particularly in public high schools? throughout most of the 20th century and beyond?

Joshua Hutchison
May 18, 2004, 12:19 AM
Like wearing baggy pants down to your ankles? I have to say that is the worst I've seen :LOL:

Sisco
May 18, 2004, 09:06 AM
Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment

Then Jefferson County Public School officials are either blind or lying or both.
I don't care what school you go to, Jocks are put on a pedestal and Average Joe Student is just a source of government funding.

GEM
May 18, 2004, 01:05 PM
A good book on school shootings is

Rampage: The Social Roots of School Shootings
by Katherine S. Newman, Cybelle Fox, David Harding, Jal Mehta, Wendy Roth

It explains much about the parents reactions and the causes of the problem. It does not focus on guns as a casual factor.

About the jock, bullying factor - it's been studied intensively and it was there in most of the school shootings. The shooters couldn't handle the abuse for various reasons and the schools were blind to it or even encouraged it as parts of their sports mania. They have to deny it now because they can't accept the guilt or the legal liability.

raz-0
May 18, 2004, 02:01 PM
Like wearing baggy pants down to your ankles? I have to say that is the worst I've seen :LOL:

yeah, so much mroe absurd than bleached denim bell-bottoms.

With 20 inch bells

oh and they're hip-huggers witha zipper about 2.5" long.

and it's a high-school guy weraing them.

A blond guy.

A blond guy trying to grow an afro.

except for his prom.. that' was when he broke out the powder blue polyester tux with the stripe down the leg and the ruffled shirt.

Heck.. man, at least you can pull the baggy pants up if you want, but I'm sure as heck glad I dodged the above fasion bullet.

Oh yeah.. and gun realated... try concealed carry in the above skin tight outfits.

Mr. James
May 18, 2004, 02:10 PM
except for his prom.. that' was when he broke out the powder blue polyester tux with the stripe down the leg and the ruffled shirt.

Dagnabbit, I thought I burned all those pictures. :uhoh:

artherd
May 19, 2004, 03:07 AM
"He was hopeless. We didn't realize it until after the end," Tom Klebold said.

The Klebolds said their son was set off by the "toxic culture" of the school, where athletes were worshipped and bullying was tolerated.

Oh please. These 'parents' need to fry.

And to answer the question, at age 18 your parents are no longer responsible for your actions.

c_yeager
May 19, 2004, 03:13 AM
Weren't they sawing off the barrels of their shotguns in their bedrooms? Maybe an issue of parental supervision there? Maybe?

Boy now THATS a funny observation on this forum.

I can see the headline now: "Brainwashed Parents turn in own child for excersizing constitutional rights"

I wonder what the overriding opinion of THAT situation would have been here?

artherd
May 19, 2004, 04:51 AM
Maybe instead of turning in them in they should have, like, listened to the kids? Once? Maybe?

Nah, too busy going on vacation and banging the neighbors. (or just spending all day strung out on 'anti-depressants'.

c_yeager
May 24, 2004, 05:59 AM
Nah, too busy going on vacation and banging the neighbors. (or just spending all day strung out on 'anti-depressants'.

I wonder what the parents of the kids who were bullying D/K were doing.

Hawkmoon
May 24, 2004, 02:57 PM
You see, a closer examination of the evidence suggests that we got very lucky in Columbine. Klebold and Harris were planning a much higher score. One of the mysteries about the event was why so few people died?
I have heard through supposedly reliable sources that part of the plan was to force the school to evacuate into the parking lot, where there was a huge car bomb waiting. For some reason, the car bomb malfunctioned and didn't explode. It was later neutralized by by an EO team.

I believe that information has not been widely disseminated.

capt_happypants
May 24, 2004, 10:44 PM
The plan was to detonate a pair of 20lb propane tanks in the cafeteria, then shoot the survivors as they left the building. Thankfully, Harris and Klebold modified the fuzing system (used a watch with plastic hands instead of metal ones, preventing the circuit from closing).

If they had succeeded, we would not be talking about gun control.

Treylis
May 24, 2004, 10:47 PM
A fashion trend?

Looking like an idiot is a fashion trend? What's the world come to?

*cough* Excuse me, I dressed in all black and wore a long duster for most of high school. I still think it's quite fashionable.

CrudeGT
May 24, 2004, 11:41 PM
JohnBT, I resent your comments.

I wore a 20lb leather trench coat for the 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. I got perfect grades, graduated in the top percentile with a 3.75 CGPA. I wore all black, on occasion I wore white and back make-up, and painted my nails black, i wore knee high lace-up leather boots. I certainly did not feel like an idiot, I felt comfortable. I felt happy that I was letting people know that I was not a part of the mass media who characterize everything they do not understand as "idiotic".

To each his own, but think this over. I still wear al black, and I still wear that trench coat, every day of the week, everyday of the year. It's my second layer of skin. I still wear my boots as well. You may call me an idiot for it, but I am not that different from you, and I've been posting on this board for the last few months, I've never been an idiot before. However, now that you know how I dress, now I am an idiot?

To each his own, but try not to be so closed minded. And never judge a book by it's cover.

nico
May 25, 2004, 12:01 AM
A fashion trend?

Looking like an idiot is a fashion trend? What's the world come to?


not to pile on, but you are being extremely naieve. I just finished my junior year of college, so I probably remember high school better than most others on this board. At my school, there was a group of kids who wore black clothes, nail pollish, doc martins, and even ::gasp:: trench coats. It was basically an attempt to do the complete opposite of what was "in style" because of the shallowness that underly most fashion trends. They looked weird, but most of them were more normal and had fewer issues than the majority of the "normal," "cool," etc. kids. While the "cool" kids had kegers and the occasional orgy (no exageration) at their houses, the weird looking kids who always wore black were the ones in the orchestra, band, or drama who never got into any trouble.
Saying that wearing trench coats (or any other clothes) are an indicator that someone will become a mass murderer is just as ignorant as sayint that playing violent video games, listening to a certain kind of music, or going shooting make a person want to kill people.

CrudeGT
May 25, 2004, 12:20 AM
Nico, you're my new best friend :D

Thanx, that was well written,

If you enjoyed reading about "More Columbine...." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!