[seeker_two]

After reading an old article by Jeff Cooper on the Scout Rifle (his version of a GP-rifle), I got to wondering about what I would want in mine. Right now, I have a .303 SMLE sporter w/ a 3x9 scope (left to me by my grandfather). It comes pretty close, but I'm probably going to buy another rifle as a GP-rifle to keep this one in good shape. I'm using Cooper's definition for a Scout as mine for a GP-rifle (good for hunting, competition, SHTF, etc.)

Here's what I want in my GP-rifle:

CALIBER: .308 or .30-30 (easily obtainable ammo & variety of types)
ACTION: bolt or lever action (easier to maintain)
SIZE & WEIGHT: under 7 lbs. & 38" (same as Scout Rifle)
STOCK MATERIAL: Synthetic
MAGAZINE: Detachable (tube on .30-30). Minimum 5 rounds
SIGHTING EQUIPMENT: Iron sights (ghost ring preferable) as backup to scope. 3x9 Variable scope (where I differ from the Col.) mounted in traditional spot (not forward of magazine).

These are mine d/t my preferences. YMMV...

What are the qualities for your GP-rifle? Feel free to use these guidelines or come up w/ your own. I'm interested in seeing what the ideal THR GP-rifle would look like....

Thanks in advance...:D

[hondo68]

The ideal GP rifle looks like this....

http://waronterror.net/images/M1poster.gif

U.S. Rifle Cal. .30 M1 (Garand)

[Art Eatman]

The key is light and handy, and a sighting system of whatever sort that lets you make snap shots.

(IMO, "rapid target acquisition" = "snap shot".)

General purpose just does not include a military or infantry-style engagement of multiple hostiles. Scouts avoid such things as one does the plague or gatherings of the Liberal Left.

:D, Art

[Marshall]

Scouts avoid such things as one does the plague or gatherings of the Liberal Left.

ROFLMAO, Good one Art! ;)

[El Tejon]

To condense into one word: utileness.:D

[DeBee]

Several years ago, I set about to create the best general purpose rifle I could based on, surprise surprise, the Mauser action. What follows is based on my notes and sketches.

Basically, you have to put the Cooper Scout theory aside. It's tough to make weight with a gun made of STEEL not aluminum but in my opinion, steel is the best material for a general purpose rifle or Practical Carbine as I will refer to it... You might be over 7lbs a bit... If you want a Cooper Scout, get the Cooper Scout.

Action: FN or DWM short or standard length thumb cut/stripper clip design with a Talley bolt handle TIG welded on, swept down and back FN style as I prefer. Action is polished and square and has the proper heat treatment. The safety is the highly desirable FN thumb safetly on the left hand side of the bolt shroud. Bottom metal is stock military. Trigger is stock military, swept back if it feels good for you, honed with an overtravel stop in the return spring. I bow to the design genius of Paul Mauser. Still gathering the parts...

Barrel: 20" .308 Military step barrel preferred aftermarket if necessary. Chrome lining would be excellent but unavalable at this time... 20" is the minimum I'd consider due to muzzle blast and flash, cartridge performance, and handling considerations. Moreover, this length will give you a reasonable iron sighting distance.

Stock: As of yet, a stock for the general purpose/practical carbine does not exist. All aftermarket stocks are lacking in some way. A compromise can be had with a Rimrock mossy oak but alas, it is only available as a blank for Mausers. Wood is not out of the question- strong condiseration is being given to the Acra Bond laminate with 3 layers of walnut. This stock could be modified without much problem but I haven't handled one to date. The forend could be easily shortened and the butt could be bored out to save (minimal) weight (it is heavy). Ideally, the stock would be fit to you and point like a good shotgun for instinctive shooting... Still looking.

Sights: Iron peep sights are primary with the scout scope or standard scope as back up. Therefore the stock should be set up so one can easily employ the peep. I'm sure the difference between a scope height comb and a iron sight comb could be averaged. I'm hoping Ashley Outdoors will put the M 700 Ghost Ring Peep Base out in Mauser formation that does not extend into the stripper clip slot. A long front base on the front reciever ring extends out onto the barrel like a quarter rib (i.e. it doesn't have to be ugly). The front extended base is cut in the standard Picatinny style and could therefore be used for a standard scope, a red dot sight, or scout optics. A standard military front sight is soldered in place with a patridge blade. As of now, this set up is largely a custom proposition- get out your mill file and dykem blue...

Just some of my thoughts on Practical Carbine design, a work in progress...

[Brad Johnson]

What he said ^^ or....

.... or you could always go to the local gun shop and find a decent used rifle chambered in .308 or .30-06 for $200-$250 and fit it with an inexpensive scope. It probably won't be a sub-MOA tack driver (or it might be, who knows?) but chances are it be plenty accrurate for general use.

I have a custom'd-out Win Mod 70 that will routinely shoot sub-.600 groups. Do I carry it regularly? No way - too much cash invested! My regular carry gun is a grizzled old Savage '06 that I bought a couple of years ago for $150. I put on a cheapo Wal-Mart scope and spent $35 having the trigger smoothed up, but that's it. It's accurate to minute-of-coyote, and ugly enough that I don't have worry about dings and scratches. Plenty fine for a beater that I've got less than $250 in.

Brad

[Soap]

It depends on what you generally do. I generally don't engage Tangos, defend the Motherland from the Red Chinee, nor am I attacked by bears on a regular basis.

Right now, my focus is on building practical marksmanship. I haven't shot at a live target in a while so hunting isn't what I "generally do" either. So my current choice that gets shot at least weekly is:

Kimber .22 Hunter
Leupold VX-II 3-9x40mm
M1907 Sling

Later on in life when I get to do some more killing and grilling I'll probably get one of these:

*Excalibur Music plays...* (http://www.brockmansrifles.com/bolt_action_prac.asp)

[Art Eatman]

DeBee, sounds pretty good.

I sorta think too much is made of the forward scope mounting. I don't at all argue against it, but figuring the general purposes of one who scouts, it's not all that necessary. In all of Cooper's writings on the subject, what gets my attention is the Ghost Ring sight idea. Strikes me as a Good Thing for somebody who doesn't want or need a scope.

:), Art

[El Tejon]

Art, re: forward mounted scope, necessary is not the same as utile.:D

[BusMaster007]

Got an 870?
This would work well with it:

"New to our line of Remington law enforcement products is the Model 7600P Patrol Rifle in .308 Win featuring an advanced sight system. Answering the call for a low profile, user-friendly patrol rifle, Remington now offers this durable, pump action rifle for standard duty use."
http://www.remingtonle.com/images/rifle/new_7600.jpg

...from the Remington LE site, where "P" stands for PARKERIZED...;)
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/7600.htm

[seeker_two]

Thanks, BusMaster007. I've always thought those were "neat-o" rifles. For a patrol rifle, I think they're ideal. Too bad I don't own an 870 (my shotgun is a SxS coach).

Now, as to caliber, are there any other calibers to consider for a GP-rifle? .308 & .30-30 come to mind, but a lot could be said for the .243 and the .35 Remington.

Any other calibers come to mind?

[Art Eatman]

seeker_two, I guess most any of the 6mm to 7mm cartridges that'll work through the short action would work.

Charley Whitman had a one shot kill at 420 yards with a 6mm Remington, and I've done in over 20 deer with a .243...

And, Hey! Ain't an "advanced sigh system" just absolutely splendiferous? (Not knockin' the gun; it's just too early in my coffee-cycle to tolerate that sort of ad-speak.)

:), Art

[cheygriz]

There are many good general purpose riofles right off of the shelf.

Depending on use, I don't think you could beat a plain old Model 94 winchester, preferably with a good aperture rear sight.

Another good choice would be a Model 70 Featherweight in .30-06 with a high quality 6X42 scope.

My personal choice for a good all around GP rifle is the Bushmaster "Dissapator" 16 inch barrel 5.56X45 Nato with a Trijicon ACOG sight.

Like I said, it depends on what you're going to use it for.

If you're a hunting guide in Alaska, a good bolt action .416 Rigby with express sights might fill the bill.

Personally, I have no use whatsoever for Cooper's scout rifle concept. To me, it's a little bit of everything, and the best of nothing. But if that's what fits your purpose, then by all means get it.

[sm]

Granted, I don't get to hunt with a rifle much, guilty of not shooting rifles often. <shame on me, mostly hunt/use shotguns and handguns> That said:

My 30 year old model 94 works for me...eyes have changed a bit, aperature sights would suit me fine for this rifle.

Had a old model 70 '06 with a K4...stolen...we fit each other, got to get this set-up again...

These two my choices...

[Jake 98c/11b]

I like the Scout concept personally, I have a Winchester Classic Compact I am building into a Pseudo Scout. I prefer stripper clip loading over a detachable mag but that is just my preference, because of this I am happy to use the forward mounted scope.

Originally I thought of using a surplus mauser but the weight became an issue, I hope for less than 7 pounds.

[seeker_two]

Lots of ideas to consider....

Thanks for everything so far & keep 'em coming...:D

[Dr.Rob]

Its still hard to beat a Marlin 336 in 30-30 for a general purpose, light wieght, knock around good to 200 yards sort of game rifle. The only way to make it better is make it more corrosion resistant. Plenty of game has fallen to the old 30-30.

Having said that, the average stainless and synthetic-stocked bolt action 30-06 is perhaps the best choice for all around game in the lower 48, and ain't too bad in Hawaii either. :D Sure you can drop a caribou with a 150 gr bullet, or a moose with a 220, but there are better cartridges out there for really big game. (You can't put a 220 gr bullet in most 308 actions.)

30-06 is my caliber of choice.

You like ghost rings? I don't. For snap shooting give me buckhorns and a colored front sight. Optics are better. (like defunct Tasco's EXP 1x4x44mm scope.. perfect!)

Get yourself a GI rifle sling and call it good.

That Remington "police rifle" looks an awful lot like a model 760 carbine with a slightly shorter barrel, in 30-06 that would make a dandy elk rifle for hunting in the dark timber... of course it only holds 4 shots. (Dad's 760 can hold a 2.5 inch group at 200 yards)

[Meanoldfart]

I made this one up as a GP rifle.
http://www.skstrigger.com/sks-pistol-grip.htm
or this onehttp://www.skstrigger.com/sks-camo-rifle.htm

[El Tejon]

seeker, of course this is all subjective and it depends on what "general purpose" you seek. If your "general purpose" entails fighting off the undead, zombie ninja bears of the hairy-chested West/gun rags, then your weapon will look differently than a rifle which is primarily used to shoot coyotes or crows or paper.

To me, "general purpose" is the Cooper man or beast 800 pound limit. I look for several broad categories and let the details of caliber or bipod shake out:

Weight--should be light as the weapon will be carried more than shot. The weapon will get heavy when on target.

Utileness--the weapon should serve a function. The features of the weapon should serve that weapon's job. This depends--if you have a general purpose varmit rig then a 6.5-20 scope makes a lot of sense whereas on a .30-30 it has little utility.

Friendlyness--rub your hands over the weapon. No sharp projections or corners should be there. The trigger shoud be an aid to shooting. The bolt handle slick and smooth. The weapon should be well-balanced and spring to the shoulder.

Ruggedness--doodads, geegaws, phaser/lasers/wind speed indicators should be left off. Simple is good. Anything that looks fragile will break. Redundancy, especially in sighting, is great.

I don't get excited about caliber. But a short action, readily available round makes a lot of sense to me--thus, the .308. However, I do have a fondness for the 6.5 Swede, but you add a limit weight and lose utility. Darn that double edged sword.

I'm having a couple of "general purpose" rifles done right now. I'll share with the class as so as Mrs. Flory teaches me how to use this digital camera I now have. El Tejon meets technology, hilarity ensues!:)

[Soap]

El Tejon- Name the day and my wife can work something out with you about digicam info.

[CaesarI]

Can't make weight with steel?
As long as you're happy with a short action the Kimber 84M (http://www.kimberamerica.com/model84m.htm) does all that with a wood stock. 5lbs 10oz. w/o scope/sling.

And controlled round feed.

-Morgan

[Deadman]

Just put together my own 'pseudo scout'.

Took my newly manufactured 7.62x39 No.4 Enfield Carbine with its standard picatinny rail and topped it off with a Leupold M8 IER scout scope.

With its large muzzle break and SKS mag sticking out the bottom, its probably one of the most 'evil' bolt guns I've seen. :p

[Keith]

I think a 3x9 is a terrible choice on a "general purpose" rifle. Essentially, you're gambling that you'll never need to take a close shot or that you can just blindly point-shoot at targets under 50 meters.
It just doesn't work that way. Your target will be a blurry blob if you can even find it in the narrow field of view. That's hardly general purpose!

A much better choice would be something like a 1x5 left at its lowest setting until you want to shoot at something long range.

Keith

[Swamp Yankee]

Call me a dinosaur, but when I think of a general purpose rifle the Savage Model 99 with box magazine, chambered in .308 comes to mind. Add a Lyman peep or a good 2-8 powered scope if your like me with fading eyesight and you've got about as versitile a rig as there is.
One dinosaur's opinion.
Take Care

[goon]

I just got a Enfield Jungle Carbine that I think will suit the role of GP rifle pretty well. It is light enough to be a general woods gun, tough enough to get smacked around a little bit, and ugly enough that I won't worry about it getting banged around in my truck. Enfields have proven themselves to be dependable in the worst conditions, so I doubt that there is much I can do to one to hurt one. Maybe just scuff it up a little.
My Savage Scout also seems to fit the description pretty well. The only thing I have against it so far is that the bluing develops surface rust at the first hint of moisture. After three deer seasons worth of stupidity, I have learned to just slather it in oil and scrub the rust off at the end of the day. The bluing is faded, and the stock is scratched, but I think it adds character.;)

[fixer]

here's my Remington Seven Scout-
makes weight, lenth, yada, yada...
http://www.angelfire.com/nv/fixer/scout.html

and i've also got an AR-15 "government carbine clone", vortex flash hider, 16" pencil barrel, M4 handguards, C7 upper (A1, but with the brass deflector), waffle sided stock, G3-style ergo grip (NOT the PSG-1 version)
http://www.alpharubicon.com/~fixer/images/ltwtcar.jpg

[ojibweindian]

For me, a GP rifle should be simple, rugged, reasonably accurate, and pack enough oomph to get the job done. My M48A and Savage 110, I think, succeed in fulfilling those requirements.

[Mannlicher]

Funny as it may sound, to me, an ideal general pourpose rifle would be a Savage 170, in .30/30. Fit an Ashley Outdoors peep sight, and you would be good to go.

[Buckskinner]

Different strokes, for different folks...

The first rifle I'd grab (in other words, not an organized hunt) would be my M1 with a bandoleer of FMJ. Good for bad guys and their radiators. Or a herd of pigs. I can put 8 fast shots on a paper plate at 125 yds...Good 'nuff.

That'd be after I strap on my 1911.

All of my bolt guns are fine for range days and hunting, but when I want something RIGHT NOW, the M1 delivers everytime.

I like lever guns alot, cuz they are one of the few action types you can reload without taking the rifle from your shoulder.

If you're having a really bad commute day, and the zombie ninja bears are between you and your family, you better have a few 20 rd mags for that HK91 in the trunk.

If you're in Kalifornia Urbania and don't want to freak out the neighbors too bad (TOO LATE! they already know you own guns!), grab the Mini 14. POW POW POW. Never a burp, with proper mags...

If engagement range is 50 yards or less, I'd grab the 12 gauge and the slugs/00 buck hanging on the door. Again, I can reload with the gun still on target, or change ammo type. The shotgun is too often underestimated for midrange effect. There are a bunch of dead geese with #2 Hevi-Shot who fell about 30-40 yards away in my freezer who'd agree...

Shoot what you got, and spend the rest on ammo!

[LAWDOGKMS]

I've got a Remington Model 7, Bolt Action, with the 18.5" barrel, in .308.

I'ts got a Leupold 3X9 scope with quick detatchable mount and the original iron sights below it already dialed in..

I can't think of a better GP rifle..

Maybe a similarly scoped and iron sighted 30-30 would be a good bet?