[Wedge]

I have been drooling over the Glock 19 for a while now, seems to fit my hands real nice and although I haven't shot the 19 I found the 23 to shoot very naturally for me.

Went to store today to look around (since I am broke for at least the next 3 months but can't help looking) and looked at a couple of High Powers. The first one was a new Browning Capitan for $519.99 and the other one was a used Mark III for $424.99. The Capitan is on special right now regular price is $565. The BHP handled real nice and was much lighter than I thought it was going to be.

Going rate for the 19 seems to be $500 around here.

The gun will be used for carry and general target, plinking etc.

Opinions? Pro's con's of each?

[BHPshooter]

They really are very different guns. Personally, I think Glocks are grossly overpriced. That BHP MkIII is a great price, and the Capitan (tangent sights, right?) is also a very good price. Tangents are getting rare, so you might want to take a second look at that.

Everybody's got an opinion about polymer, so that should have it's place in a decision, I suppose.

They're both high capacity, but mags for the BHP are quite affordable, wheras the mags for the Glock require you to sell internal organs.

They're both essentially single-action (No, Glocks aren't DA. They don't have second-strike capability), and neither are likely to have perfect triggers out of the box. However, the BHP's trigger will pretty much give itself a trigger job after about 4 or 5 hundred rounds.

I would say the biggest difference is feel. See which one fits your hand better and which would be most comfy to shoot for long periods and carry.

I don't know how hard it is to work on a Glock yourself, but working on a BHP is pretty easy (within reason).

I'm not going to lie to you -- I like BHPs more than probably anything else. But what's good for me may not be good for you. Give each a try and see what blows your skirt up.

Good luck, and please let us know what you decide. ;)

Wes

[Wedge]

Fumegator, thanks for the insight. I just did a quick search and you are absolutely right about the price of standard capacity magazines. They seemed to be right around $30 or less. I assume that all the BHP clone magazines work in them as well. On the Capitan the sights looked like they were set up for yardage or something, if those are tangents then yeah that is what they had. The Capitan also had a really nice blueing.

My mind's not made up yet but I am still looking and a little surprised how value priced the Browning was.

[Glack]

They are both excellent pistols. I also faced your dilemma. I ended up with both of them.

I tend to carry my 19 more because I am afraid of ruining the blueing on the P-35 . If I had to do it over again I would get a P-35 with a matte finish so I would not fret over the nice finish.

[m14nut]

Ironic post,
cause i just traded away my Browning [Belgium] MKII for a Gen 2 Glock 19.

The Browning, well, it's a browning...nice balance, thin and "pointability" hi-cap, but being lefty, that whole cocked and locked thingy with the single factory safety was nutz.
With the G19, i lost the 13 round cap, but got a more left hand friendly 9mm that is pull and shoot.

The MKII had factory sights, and to change the front, the whole front sight has to be milled off.

On the G19, i've already swapped the factory sights for a set of adjustable Meprolites, gained accuracy and nite sight ability.

Both are proven work horses and proven reliable. I don't think you'd do wrong with either.

Can i throw a monkey wrench into the works????

Did you consider a Walther P99????

:neener:

[Wedge]

m14nut, thanks for clearing that up for me :p

The Mark III that I looked at had an ambi safety. Doesn't matter much for me since I am right handed.

[HankB]

If I came across a used 9mm BHP MkIII in good shape for $424.99, I'd buy it. If for no other reason, than to have a spare for the one that usually rides my hip.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Front sight on the MkIIIs are dovetailed, so that shouldn't be an issue.

I carry a Hi-Power and own a Glock 26 as well. Both are great guns... in my experience the Glocks are more reliable, require less maintenance and last longer. The Hi-Powers are slimmer, more concealable and more ergonomic.

The Hi-Power has a better initial trigger pull; but a trigger reset that is both difficult to feel and long. The Glock trigger isn't a thing of beauty but is practical and has a short positive trigger reset.

A reliable 17rd pre-ban Hi-Power mag can be had for $20. A reliable 17rd pre-ban Glock mag will run $80-90.

In the first 6,000 rounds of 9mm, my Glock 26 had three stoppages - all hard primers where the primer had been indented but did not fire. All three cartridges fired the second time through. In the first 6,000 rounds the Hi-Power had around 10-15 stoppages. Most of these can be traced to weak mag springs or weak recoil springs. The Hi-Power will run like a top when maintained but requires a little more attention than the Glock to keep it in running condition.

[MrAcheson]

I'll be getting a hipower soon. The ergos are nice and most of the issues with a stock HP (like the awful mag safety) can be rectified at home. Plus you can get 15 and 17 round hicaps for ~$20 if you know where to look. The hipower is the 9mm military sidearm of the post war period. There are tons of surplus hicaps out there for it.

[pauli]

wedge, are you only considering the bhp and g19, or are you open to other options as well?

of the two, i'd go for the bhp.

[Wedge]

Pauli, yes I am open to other options. I liked shooting the 23 (even though I am looking for a 19) and the simplicity of the Glock. I really like the lines and general feel of the BHP. Not much else has really jumped out at me. Then again, I tend to put blinders on when I start to want something and have an awful tendency to ignore everything else.

Price, concealability and 9mm are all requirements of the next purchase.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I carry 3 different auto's but mostly carry the styre m9 as I like the way it rides in ccw.
Having said that I used to carry my glock30 90% of the time and it has never failed me.

But I do own 4 high powers and they are all nice auto's

3 of them are ww2 inglis pistols and one works like a dream, the second one I replaced a few parts on it and have fired it with the stock on it and it runs great now.
The third one I'am awaiting some new parts and it should run fine also.

The one I carry for my ccw quite often is a practical model in 40 S&W and it works great.

[ChiefPilot]

They are both nice; I prefer the BHP. I bought a BHP Capitan last year and it's a joy to shoot. Like Glack, I don't carry it because I don't want to mess up the bluing. I also have a silver-chrome BHP and will carry that occasionally as the finish is much tougher.

I don't own a Glock, but they are nice guns to shoot. Buy both. :)

Cheers,
Brad

[artherd]

If you have to trust your life to a Firearm, there really isn't a better choice than a Glock. It ain;t perfect, but it's closer than anyone else has got to this point.

3,000 rounds through my G34 so far, 0 malfunctions. (ok, 1 when I loaded 11 into a 10 rounder and 1 in the chamber for 12 rounds in a system designed for 11. Since that was my stupid error, I'm not counting it.)

The BHP is a cool gun, get if too after you've had the G19 for a while.

[BHPshooter]

I tend to carry my 19 more because I am afraid of ruining the blueing on the P-35 . If I had to do it over again I would get a P-35 with a matte finish so I would not fret over the nice finish.

That is a good point. I got a FEG Hi Power clone a little while after I got my MkIII Browning because I wanted one I wasn't afraid to use hard (with the Browning being my first gun and all, I have sentimental attachments). FEGs have beautiful blue finishes, but now mine is... not beautiful. THe bluing from the backstrap and the right side of the trigger guard is gone (where the finger rests) and the frontstrap has the bluing gone where my fingers go, leaving really funny looking, in-the-white "finger groove" appearance.

The epoxy finish on the MkIII is pretty much indestructable. That's what I would get if I was to carry one.

In the first 6,000 rounds of 9mm, my Glock 26 had three stoppages... In the first 6,000 rounds the Hi-Power had around 10-15 stoppages.

:eek: Wow! That's nuts. I don't have a round count as impressive as that, but in the 2,000 rounds through each of my guns, the Browning hasn't had any, and the FEG has had 1 that wasn't related to that Triple-K mag (you remember that I'll bet :p ).

I will certainly agree, however, that the BHP likes to be cleaned more often than the Glock.

If I came across a used 9mm BHP MkIII in good shape for $424.99, I'd buy it. If for no other reason, than to have a spare for the one that usually rides my hip.

Gotta agree... That is a killer price.

Good luck, Wedge. ;)

Wes

[cratz2]

Yeah, I don't have anything against Glocks or BHPs but the BHP is a bit more 'instantly comfortable' in my hand... not that the Glock is that bad, just not as good as the BHP.

If I had to choose between a $500 new Glock or a $425 used MK III in decent condition, I'd definately take the BHP though I don't know if I'd be so set on the BHP over the Glock for carry use.

One other thing is I'm not sure how much I'd like to daily concealed carry a BHP with the tangent sight... I've never carried one, so maybe they are pretty recessed but that would be an initial turn-off. Plus if the $425 gun is in decent condition and on down the road you decide you must get the G19, you probably aren't going to take much of a hit on selling the BHP if you are so forced.

Not to be a CZ pusher, but if you liked the general feel of the BHP, you might want to try to seek out a CZ P-01 or PCR to try on for size... light weight, decent triggers (better than most out of the box BHPs or Glocks I've tried) DA/SA action, but with the same general grip ergonomics as the BHP.

[Northslope Nimrod]

I didn't read all of the posts but here's my 2 cents. I prefer "metal" guns for full size autos. They look and feel nice. Also, the BHP has a better trigger.....AFTER a good trigger job. (They stink out of the box) Personally, I prefer the XD trigger over the Glock.....and several other features of the XD. I have a friend that shoots a full size Glock and he readily admits my BHP is much more fun to shoot. That's a good price on the Captain.

[Treylis]

If you have to trust your life to a Firearm, there really isn't a better choice than a Glock. It ain;t perfect, but it's closer than anyone else has got to this point.

Heretic! ;-P

I vote BHP.

[Serpico]

Take each gun and stick it in your waistband at around 3:00(unloaded)....then draw each of them very fast to eye level...whichever ones feels like an extension of your own hand and you don' have to break your wrist to line the sights up is the one I'd buy....I will not try and sway you either way....Happy Pistoling

[Dave R]

If the vote is close, here's a tiebreaker...

You can get good quality KRD 17-round mags fro the HP for about $20 ea (or at least you could as of about a year ago).

What's a standard-capacity Glock mag go for these days?

[m14nut]

As I hinted at before, I'd take a real close look at the Walther P99. The quality is Walther, and the controls a combination of a glock slide release [well, sort of] and the H&K style mag release. The gun also has a decocker, but unlike the Glock, will allow a DA pull and then go to SA. It also allows you to carry in a long SA; the first half of the trigger pull cocking the pistol to SA.
Ergonomics of the Walther are hands down to the Glock, Allowing you to change Backstraps to fit your particular hand. Given a choice between the 2, my personal choice would be the Walther. I own a 99 in .40, with a .357sig bbl also, but have shot a P99 in 9 and it's a real pussycat. I also as stated before, own the G19, and that too is a fine Tool.

I'd recommend going to a range that'll allow you to rent or try them BEFORE you make your choice. Try em before you buy em if you will.

Good luck in your endeavor:cool:

[jc2]

in my experience the Glocks are more reliable, require less maintenance and last longer.
Last longer? I haven't found too many fifty old Glocks that are still working fine. Have you? :p

Less maintenance? Clean them, change recoil springs as required, maybe replace a busted trigger spring or too in the Glock. I don't see a whole lot of difference. Good maintenance practices are good maintenance practices.

More reliable? Probaby not as a whole. The BHP will definitely have the advantages when it comes to hard primers though.

[mini14jac]

I've had both.
Both are amazingly comfortable in my hands.

I think the Glock is going to be more comfortable for all-day carry, because it is lighter and smaller.
My (older) Inglis BHP would not feed hollow points.
It was strictly ball ammo only, as with so many other war-era guns.
This has probably been rectified in new guns, but just be aware that it is a problem in the older guns.

The Glock would feed rocks if you could get them in the mag.

To me the Glock is a tool, where any BHP is more a work of art.
But, either will do most any task asked of them.

If I buy another "standard capacity" 9mm, it will be the Glock.
I've tried cocked-and-locked on a carry gun, and it's not for me.

[Hal]

500 anything is a very good price for a new HP.
They go for above 600 here in NE Ohio.

Glocks?
Who cares. (only from a supply standpoint - no reflection intended on the quality of the product) There's an endless supply of Glocks right now.
HPs are somewhat scarce.

[Marshall]

Interesting.

The BHP Capitan is very cool but, for carry, I would rather have the MKIII without the tangent sights.

The MKIII is a heck of a pistol as is, but the nice thing is that it can be turned into a even nicer pistol. The Glock is nice but, it's a Glock and no matter what you do to in the future, it will still be a Glock. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Here is a picture of a BHP MKIII with just little custom work. Trigger job, grips and low mount night sights. It doesn't get much better than the looks and usability of this one.

Buy for today but think for tomorrow too. ;)


http://www.novaksights.com/pictures%20in%20Photo%20Galllary/bhp-sale-l-0881.jpg

[Berg01]

This is comparing apples & oranges, but I happen to like both the G19 and the BHP. If its going to be a primary carry gun I'd opt for the G19; if its primarily for target shooting, get the BHP, but these are both so good that you could easily argue for getting both (eventually).

[HankB]

in my experience the Glocks are more reliable, require less maintenance and last longer. My experience is rather different. My MkIII BHP had two stoppages early on - premature slide lock - which was fixed with a little stoning to take 0.010" off the slide stop. Since then, four or five thousand rounds later, no problems at all.

My Glock 17 is prone to "limp wrist syndrome" in that if you don't hold the pistol firmly, it will jam. This only seems to occur when one of the ladies in my life is shooting it, but it still gives me pause . . . what if I'm using it in a defensive situation after being injured?

I don't have enough rounds (<2000) through my Glock 26 to make a definitive judgement, other than "so far, so good."

As far as triggers - the long reset of the BHP is a downside. But it's got a much crisper and more consistent break than any Glock I've tried . . . especially since I got rid of the magazine disconnect.

As I said, if I came across a gently used 9mm Mk III BHP for $425, I'd snap it up. (The store you found it as isn't by chance in the Austin, TX area, is it? ;) )

[Wedge]

The store is in western NY.

[peashooter]

Anything BUT a Glock. I'd take the BHP, or better yet another Beretta 92.:evil:

[Bartholomew Roberts]

fumegator:
Wow! That's nuts. I don't have a round count as impressive as that

If you thought that was impressive, the same gun is now approaching 22,000 rounds.

jc2:
Last longer? I haven't found too many fifty old Glocks that are still working fine. Have you?

It isn't the age, it is the mileage. My personal Hi-Power, which I love, carry and trust with my life, has broken a firing pin retaining plate, recoil spring guide and ejector in 22,000 rounds. On the other hand, I didn't see any parts breakage until around 16k rounds - a number the Glock is 10k shy of.

Less maintenance? Clean them, change recoil springs as required, maybe replace a busted trigger spring or too in the Glock. I don't see a whole lot of difference.

I wasn't promising a whole lot of difference. Neither one is maintenance intensive; but the Glock requires less due to the plastic frame and tennifer finish. Part of it may be psychological as well, I think the Hi-Powers are beautiful and real works of art. It used to be a scratch on one pained me and I have a hard time putting them back into the safe dirty. The Glock evokes no such emotion from me. I have no more aesthetic attachment to it than I do my hammer. As long as it will work, I don't really care if it is dirty.

More reliable? Probaby not as a whole.

As I said, that is my experience with one Glock 26 and several hi-Powers. Any time you rely on anecdotal evidence, especially with a single sample or small sample, you need to take the information with a big grain of salt. For me, the Glock is consistently more reliable than any of the Hi-Powers in long term use.

However, the Hi-Power is also subjected to much harder conditions of use than the Glock. The Glock usage is all static range time and mostly on an indoor range. The Glock also eats from nothing but factory mags.

The Hi-Power on the other hand gets regularly carried around with all the daily wear and tear that brings. It eats from a mix of factory mags (some older than I am) and aftermarket mags. It has seen six formal shooting classes, two years of IDPA competition and lots of outdoor range time in the dust and mud.

I'm positive a great deal of the Hi-Power stoppages were mag related rather than gun related; but unfortunately, competition and classes don't give you a great deal of time to analyze the cause of the stoppage when it happens, so I can't say that with certainty.

The BHP will definitely have the advantages when it comes to hard primers though.

Definitely agree. I've never seen a primer so hard the BHP wouldn't handle it. On the other hand, I've never seen the hammer follow with a Glock either. So it is a trade off, like all things.

HankB
My Glock 17 is prone to "limp wrist syndrome" in that if you don't hold the pistol firmly, it will jam.

I've noted that myself; but only with the bigger 9mm Glocks like the Glock 34. They are much more demanding of a straight locked out wrist than the Hi-Power is. I pretty much agree with the rest of your comments (re: trigger, price) as well.