[Newton]

I have now met at least 2 shooters who talked about shooting "cats". They definitely seemed to be talking about the household variety.

Are there significant numbers of domesticated cats in the wild, or were these guys more likely talking about plinking someone's innocent kitty ?

This was up in central PA by the way, and they were both well spoken older gentlemen, not wild, irresponsible teenagers.

Anyone got any ideas, oh they were using .22LR, not that it makes any difference.


Newton

[Legionnaire]

Unfortunately, I recently gave away my copy of New York's Environmental Conservation laws, otherwise I'd give you chapter and verse. But I recall reading that feral cats are unprotected and that anyone can shoot a feral cat found in the wild. The presumption is that such cats prey on species that are protected ... song birds and the like.

I made this discovery while researching NY's laws regarding handling dogs that are loose and running game. Discovered that in contrast to shooting feral cats, Joe hunter cannot legally shoot a dog observed to be running game. DEC Officers and other LEOs may, however, dispatch said canine.

I'll be interested to read what others may contribute here, especially any knowledgable about PA regs, as I hunt there often.

[Hoploholic]

A feral cat can absolutely clean an area out of small game. I don't have any problems with dispatching one upon sight...as well as feral canines. Shooting someones pet for sport is another matter.

[Amish_Bill]

Oops... expected this to be another "what caliber for" thread.
Was going to suggest 22-250. :-)

[MeekandMild]

A sample of references more or less informed on the subject:
http://home.earthlink.net/~lisamhutchins/domestic_cat_predation.htm
http://www.dnr.state.co.us/cdnr_news/wildlife/1998615123232.html
http://greennature.com/article2223.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/florida_policy.htm

The authoritative statement of the National Audubon Society:
http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98march/nasr.html

Responsible hikers, fishermen and timber cutters will kill any feral cat they see. Responsible hunters will stop their hunt to kill any feral cat they see. If kittens are small enough to be unafraid of humans they can be dewormed and made into pets but if they hiss at the finder or act afraid they are too old to be easily imprinted and should be drowned. My 2 cents worth.

[Snowdog]

They're talking about these cats: Martian lime felines from...Mars.
On sporadic surreptitious operations, they've been known to steal limes off our Earth trees to make their imperial helmets.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid110/pa0b4465cc0d601c3712e711b23a55b84/f9168f0b.jpg

On a more serious note, I have personally witnessed a neighbor's outdoor pet cat kill a cardinal (our state bird) and a small pretty yellow bird of some kind on two separate occasions before I could stop it. Certainly it irritates me to some degree, but there's no way I'm going to shoot it. Both times it happened on the neighbors property near their own bird feeder, so complaining to them about it doesn't make much sense to me.

When you have an outdoor cat, expect it to kill birds and other small animals, as that's what they do. It's not their fault, it's in their blood.
Personally, I believe a cat owner should be an owner of an indoor cat, but that's just me.

[Shmackey]

Agree about the indoor thing.

That said, how are you supposed to determine that a cat you see outside is feral? Do they wear uniforms now?

I don't like the sound of this. Not at all.

[HSMITH]

Kill ALL feral cats on sight. Responsible cat owners keep them inside or on a leash, a roaming cat is a dead cat IMO. No other animal else damages wildlife so extensively, not even humans.

[Destructo6]

I have a few semi-feral cats. They will allow only myself and only a few others to approach or handle them. They, and their littermates who have died over the years, went through the local feral cat program, where they were spayed/neutered, given shots, and had their right ears clipped for identification. They've been complimented in keeping the neighborhood free of gophers and other rodents.

I'd say that if you find a cat in a location that a domesticated cat would probably not be (middle of a state park or similar), without a collar, and un approachable, they are fair game. Glassing a field next to a housing development and shooting any cat you see is not acceptable and may turn you into an equal opportunity target.

[Sunray]

I just read that cats dislike citrus fruits intensely. That would explain the, "You'll pay for this, buddy!" look.
All cats hunt. Even Fluffy who sits on your lap and purrs. If you don't want Fluffy to hunt, keep fluffy inside. She'll still hunt, but it'll be bugs and flies.
We had a cat that brought home a pidgeon. Left in just outside the back door. I was sleeping in the basement when my ma opened said door. Just before she put here foot down, something said, "Look down." She did. When I got up and found it and heard the story, I told ma how impressed I was that she didn't scream. If it had been a mouse, on the other hand, I'd still be trying to get my fingers out of the ceiling. Terrible afraid of mice, so she was. An on going source of amusement. Even a $2 fur cat toy that looked like a mouse, carefully put next to her tea cup, resulted in my being told how much she hated me. Worth every cent of the 2 bucks.

[carp killer]

I put bright colored flea collars on my cats so hopefully people won't mistake them for being feral. But if the cats leave my land, not much I can do, there fair game I guess.

[Mike Hull]

Here in the Southwest there is always the risk of Bubonic/Pneumonic plague. Cats, both domestic, and feral help keep the rodent population(carriers) under control.

Way back when, the plague swept over much of Europe, right on the tail of a big catholic push to exterminate all cats as instruments of the devil.:rolleyes:
No Cats=Rats, and other rodents= Plague.
Cats are your friend.;) :D

[tex_n_cal]

It was recently reported that somebody found a cat buried in a nice grave, with some sentimental stuff showing the owner really liked his cat.

The grave was nine thousand years old.

That's how long man's been keeping cats around, mainly for rodent control, protecting man's food. My cats stay inside where they are safe and comfortable, but I hope that every cat that wanders around won't be constantly at risk from target shooters. Given the continued existence of the plague and now hantavirus, I think we ought to let cats keep prunign the rodent population.

[Stand_Watie]

I'm somewhere in between on my opinion of feral cat hunting I guess. I understand they can be quite a problem in many areas, on the other hand a lot of farmers keep a dozen barn cats around for rodent control, and cats do roam about, and around here roaming cats are as liable to get eaten by coyotes as shot. Feral and stray dogs have caused me a lot more grief personally.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if your well spoken older gentlemen were bird lover types Newton, I've noticed that they seem to harbor a special bitterness toward outdoor cats.

[45King]

Snowdog wrote:Personally, I believe a cat owner should be an owner of an indoor cat, but that's just me.

Here, here!

Domestic cats have all the insticts of their wild bretheren, but lack the size to defend themselves against serious predators, including other wild cats and even domestic dogs. They will indeed clean out all small game and birds in their territory, and no telling what diseases they may pick up in doing so.
It's one thing to have farm cats for killing mice and rats, but if you don't live on a farm and own a cat, it should be kept indoors. All cats should be spayed or neutered. (Of course, there's purebred showcats kept fertile for breeding purposes, but they're usually indoor cats anyway.)
Around Halloween, I think ALL pets should be kept indoors. Too many weirdos out there looking for animal sacrifices, not to mention your garden variety animal-hater-sadist.

[Art Eatman]

A study done by the Wisconsin Game Dept folks, using grad students in wildlife biology, concluded that a feral cat will kill some 100 songbirds per year. The estimated feral cat population in Wisconsin was estimated to be around one million. Even being off by an order of magnitude still yields an incredible number.

To help substantiate the above conclusions: Near my wife's home not far from Thomasville, GA, the animal shelter folks set out HavAHart-type traps, responding to complaints about feral cats. Within one mile of her house, in a two-month period, they trapped some 70 feral cats.

A feral cat will kill an entire covey of quail and leave the carcasses but for the one it might eat. That's personal observation of the "scene of the crime" and tracks.

Needles to say, but I'll kill any cat I see out in the boonies.

Art

[patentnonsense]

Yes, cats are natural hunters - that's part of why I like them.
So are humans.

Some cats kill wild birds.
So do humans.

Cats live longer if they're neutered - so do humans.
(Or at least it'll seem longer!)

Killing feral cats doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me - sort of like the attitude of some grizzlies towards humans - but let's not get too self-righteous about it!

[Newton]

Would a Ruger Mk II .22LR be sufficient, or is this "unethical". This was what the old timers were talking about using.

I just don't see clean kills with such a small caliber, even on cats.


Mike H

[cdbeaver]

Feral cats are, as a rule, efficient hunters and killers. They'll take birds, mice, rabbits, anything they can catch. And not necessarily use them for food.

My rule of thumb for years is that any cat found a quarter-mile or more from a residence (rural or semi-urban) is feral and needs to be dispatched.

Another rule of thumb: Kittens are so cute; but kittens grow up to be cats.

[redneck]

A .22 is plenty if the range is right and your shot placement is right. I took one at about 50 yards a couple weeks ago with a bolt action marlin using winchester power points. One shot, dead right then.
You have to use a little discretion depending on the area your in. Way out in the woods where nobody calls home, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a cat. Its definitely feral and all the reasons listed are plenty of justification.
Here around the farm where there's people with pets around, it has to look unhealthy, have a mean dispostion, or be causing damage before I'll shoot it. This last one in particular had a habit of walking down the road on trash day and tearing into whatever smelled good. It was mangey, dirty, and I had never seen it anywhere but the drainage ditch across the road.

There's been a few other cats that I see from time to time, but they're not overly unfriendly. They avoid me, but if I happen to accidentally get one cornered they don't sit there and growl or anything, and they seem healthy so I figure they're from a neighbors barn I will leave them alone as long as their visits don't start causing damage around here.
We keep barn cats also. Just no better way around having mice and stuff in a horse barn than a few good cats. We feed them regularly twice a day to encourage their staying around, and if any of them get to be mean, or unhealthy we get rid of them. Near as I can tell they don't roam very far or hunt much outside the barn. If one comes up missing I'm sure not heartbroke about it either.

People with pets should take care of them and be responsible for them or accept the consequences. And a feral cat out in the wild has very little in common with your fluffy friend that watches TV with you in your recliner. I don't think most cat lovers would have nearly as much problem accepting all this after actually seeing a real feral cat and what they do. One of those things where reading, and seeing are 2 different things.

[MeekandMild]

Way back when, the plague swept over much of Europe, right on the tail of a big catholic push to exterminate all cats as instruments of the devil. So what about the Buddhists in China, Hindus in India and Moslems in Turkey who were killed by the same plague? I think that you need to stow the ethnic slurs. In all probablility the medieval aversion to bathing and the growth of cities before they figured out garbage disposal technology had some small thing to do with the problem.

Glassing a field next to a housing development and shooting any cat you see is not acceptable and may turn you into an equal opportunity target. When I lived in the city I used a Havahart trap, baited with fresh spamelope hindquarters.

[JohnKSa]

Responsible hunters should kill feral animals anytime they can do so safely and legally.

[Art Eatman]

M&M, I think you took Mike Hull's comment wrongly. He spoke to a causal sequence.

I vaguely recall an effort against witchcraft and "familiars", although the exact timing escapes me. Anyhow, getting rid of cats as "familiars" did indeed allow an inrease in the rat population around barns and houses, and Typhus uses fleas from rats as a vector.

Heck, part of the anti-witch thing in Salem included cats as familiars. Anybody who had a warm and friendly poo-tat was looked upon with suspicion.

Homo sap doesn't deal well with superstition. That's why we have things like AW Bans.

:D, Art

"It's bad luck to be superstitious."--Billy Joe Shaver

[Nightspell]

Anyone here watch "Animal Cops" on Animal Planet? A couple nights ago they went to a house the neighbors complained repeatedly about. The owner consented to let them remove the cats. It took 2 or 3 days and they ended up with 250+ cats, all of which were euthenized, as they had no contact with humans. It must have been absolutely disgusting in there. Possibly one of my worst nightmares is a house with 250 cats living in it. Ugh.

[Highland Ranger]

Freind bought a house with a cat problem. 40 cats in the house with a couple that went where ever they pleased.

They sanded, cleaned, painted and stained.

In the end they had to gut the house, break all the concrete out of the basement and replace it and the remaining studs joists and beams were completely coated to seal in the smell.

Turned out to not be so much of a bargain after all that . . . cat pee is some serious stuff.

[HankB]

. . . how are you supposed to determine that a cat you see outside is feral? Well, if it's not on the owner's property, that's a good indication. :rolleyes:

My next door neighbors have three (3) cats. They are strictly INDOOR cats, and I have NEVER seen them roaming loose. Nice kitties, considerate owner - he doesn't inflict his animal's nuisance behavior on others.

A friend of mine, on the other hand, had neighbors with multiple cats. They had the run of the house and - thanks to kittie doors - the neighborhood. Peed and defecated in gardens, flower beds, really disgusting. And of course, the neighbors felt "cats need to roam" and non-cat owners were supposed to just grin and bear it.

Looking for an alternative to shooting the cats, the guy got an idea from the internet - he "live trapped" a couple of them, and coated them with "skunk screen" scent from the sporting goods store before release. Stinky kitties went home, and rubbed the aroma ALL OVER the owner's house. :cool:

The neighbors converted their cats into "indoor only" cats. :D

(If you're going to shoot a feral cat, at close range, anything from a magnum air rifle on up will do.)

[Joe Demko]

RE: Cats and rodent control
While cats will kill, and sometimes eat, mice, voles and similar tiny rodents, they do not kill or eat any significant number of rats. I'll see if I can locate a link to the study, but some university professor actually collected stray cat feces (NYC, I think) and analyzed it to see what the cats were consuming. The analysis did not show any significant amount of rat "residue." As far as guarding man's food supply, I don't think we need to give Fluffy too much credit for that, either. Polecats and ferrets will knock down a rodent population a sight faster than a kitty cat will.
If people want to keep cats as pets, then those people should keep said cat on a lead or in the house. Like many others who have posted to this thread, I eliminate feral/stray cats and dogs without a qualm.

[only1asterisk]

Any cat/dog far enough away from people to be safe to shoot is fair game. Ferals are a common in this are, mainly because people feed them.


David

[Newton]

You must think that "Lassie Come Home" was a hunting video then ;)

Newton

[JohnBT]

I say we first shoot all the dogs and then the owners who let them do their business on the sidewalks around here. Talk about disgusting. At least cats bury their fertilizer.

I've been feeding birds in my postage-stamp-sized inner city back yard (25.5 feet wide x maybe 30) for 20 years. The cats I've had got bored with the birds and would seldom stalk them after the first year. I had one cat who could catch a couple a year, but he never figured out how to kill one. He'd bring them in the house if the door was open and let them loose. A possum chased him in the back door one night and up the stairs and into the bathroom.

The two cats next door are only let out when someone is home and spend most of their time on my porch bumming food and trying to figure out how to catch a squirrel between naps. I don't think they really like me, it's just that they have to share a yard with a Border Collie.

The one thing we always do is keep the cats in while the baby birds are learning to fly. This year we have baby cardinals, mockingbirds, blue jays and a bunch of finches, sparrows and ugly brown birds.

The hawks were harder on the doves this winter than the cats ever were. The last one I saw spent two hours eating a pigeon under the bird feeder. The squirrels didn't pay it any mind and made it move over a foot or two so they could get to the spilled seed. I couldn't believe they were messing with a 2-foot tall hawk. Probably just dumb city squirrels.

When I was a kid we used to shoot dogs, any dogs, that chased the cattle or bothered the draft horses.

John

[cdbeaver]

One of the reasons I don't like cats . . . any cat:

Quite a few years ago I had an extensive cartridge collection which I kept compartmentalized in a series of wooden type case drawers.

My wife had a Siamese tomcat that had the run of the house. Not only did the critter knock plates off the plate rail in the dining room, he took special pride in marking his territory on every one of my cartridge containers.

I was less than disappointed when the critter developed a fatal kidney ailment and had to be euthanized.

Feral cats aren't the only pests that need to be eliminated.